Is Cullum a liar?

[lappinitup 629]

On Monday , the EDP reported Cullum as saying.......

"He said he wanted to become majority shareholder, supported by Delia and her husband Mr Wynn Jones, and possibly make some changes to the board, including appointing “someone from the supporters'' club".

In this mornings EDP he is reported as saying this......

"My investment is focused on buying new players to give Norwich a fighting chance of returning to the Premiership. As I''ve always said it''s not my intention to buy Delia''s shares or to pay off the club''s debt".

My question is, how can he become the majority shareholder without buying D&Ms shares?

[blahblahblah 2]

By buying 20 million worth of  new shares, the money for which would be put into transfer funds ?

This could be impossible or wildly inaccurate, I''m just thinking out loud really.

[Camuldonum 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"]

On Monday , the EDP reported Cullum as saying.......

"He said he wanted to become majority shareholder, supported by Delia and her husband Mr Wynn Jones, and possibly make some changes to the board, including appointing “someone from the supporters'' club".

In this mornings EDP he is reported as saying this......

"My investment is focused on buying new players to give Norwich a fighting chance of returning to the Premiership. As I''ve always said it''s not my intention to buy Delia''s shares or to pay off the club''s debt".

My question is, how can he become the majority shareholder without buying D&Ms shares?

[/quote]

Perhaps Delia is going to hand them over for nothing?  Looks to me as if this story is undergoing what we sometimes call restructuring.

[Mark Smith 0]

You can''t really call him a liar because in Monday''s article there was no mention of buying shares - just the transfer. Which made the whole thing a bit vague and illogical in the first place.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

NO

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

No need for Delia to hand over (or sell) any shares. It seems that Mr. Cullum wanted to buy new shares (subject to an E.G.M.) direct from the club. So Mr Cullum would become the majority shareholder:

Mr Cullum                                              £20m.

The pre money holdings (as it is now)      £16m.   (Delia & MWJ   £9.8m worth at £30 per share. The rest of us £6.2m @ £30 per share)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Berkshire Canary 12]

I think I am starting to lose track of which parts of this saga are fact and which parts are pure speculation!! [*-)]

[Mark Smith 0]

[quote user="Canary Nut"]

It seems that Mr. Cullum wanted to buy new shares (subject to an E.G.M.) direct from the club.

[/quote]

But how do you know that though? Have there been any quotes from him saying that?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]But how do you know that though? Have there been any quotes from him saying that?[/quote]

He hasn''t said that, but it''s the only way he could give the club 20 million for transfers and take control without the need for more money.  I think.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Canary Nut"]

No need for Delia to hand over (or sell) any shares. It seems that Mr. Cullum wanted to buy new shares (subject to an E.G.M.) direct from the club. So Mr Cullum would become the majority shareholder:

Mr Cullum                                              £20m.

The pre money holdings (as it is now)      £16m.   (Delia & MWJ   £9.8m worth at £30 per share. The rest of us £6.2m @ £30 per share)[/quote]But surely, Canary Nut, if the amount of shares were doubled then the value of existing shares would be halved?

Also, you are saying Cullum wanted new shares but in the two EDP statements I''ve quoted he has said nothing about buying shares, only that the £20m was for new players. Have I missed something?

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]

Also, you are saying Cullum wanted new shares but in the two EDP statements I''ve quoted he has said nothing about buying shares, only that the £20m was for new players. Have I missed something?[/quote]

How do you get control of the club if you don''t buy shares ?  He said he''d give 20 million for transfers if he could have control of the club.  The only other alternative is Delia and Mike doing what Jack Heyward did, and they''re not rich enough to be able to do that, I''d imagine.

The 20 million was raised last October though, when we were almost certainly down.  We''re worth more than that now I''d argue, as our status in this league is secure until next May.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote]

Also, you are saying Cullum wanted new shares but in the two EDP statements I''ve quoted he has said nothing about buying shares, only that the £20m was for new players. Have I missed something?[/quote]

How do you get control of the club if you don''t buy shares ?  He said he''d give 20 million for transfers if he could have control of the club.  The only other alternative is Delia and Mike doing what Jack Heyward did, and they''re not rich enough to be able to do that, I''d imagine.

The 20 million was raised last October though, when we were almost certainly down.  We''re worth more than that now I''d argue, as our status in this league is secure until next May.

[/quote]

And then we become a league one side blah!. Oh, and no, he hasn''t lied..........unlike some!

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Mark Smith"][quote user="Canary Nut"]

It seems that Mr. Cullum wanted to buy new shares (subject to an E.G.M.) direct from the club.

[/quote]

But how do you know that though? Have there been any quotes from him saying that?

[/quote]

1) Somewhere on this bb. I believe there is a quote from Mr Cullum saying he doesn''t want to buy Delia & MWJ''s shares

2) Its a logical way of getting £20m straight into the club. Buying shares off someone else doesn''t give the money to the club!

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Canary Nut"]

No need for Delia to hand over (or sell) any shares. It seems that Mr. Cullum wanted to buy new shares (subject to an E.G.M.) direct from the club. So Mr Cullum would become the majority shareholder:

Mr Cullum                                              £20m.

The pre money holdings (as it is now)      £16m.   (Delia & MWJ   £9.8m worth at £30 per share. The rest of us £6.2m @ £30 per share)[/quote]But surely, Canary Nut, if the amount of shares were doubled then the value of existing shares would be halved?

[/quote]

BUT you are forgetting about the £20m cash

Lets take a simple example:

£16 / 16 shares implies £1 per share

Issue 20 shares at £1 each for £20 cash

£16+£20 = £36

£36 / 36 shares implies £1 per share

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]But how do you know that though? Have there been any quotes from him saying that?[/quote]

He hasn''t said that, but it''s the only way he could give the club 20 million for transfers and take control without the need for more money.  I think.

[/quote]

[I] Makes a lot of sense, thank you blah.  If you''re right, no doubt Mr Cullum has done his homework and knows it is feasible.  So what are we waiting for? 

 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Makes a lot of sense, thank you blah.  If you''re right, no doubt Mr Cullum has done his homework and knows it is feasible.  So what are we waiting for?  [/quote]

An offer than allows Delia and MWJ to recoup the money they''ve put into the facilities, possibly ?

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Makes a lot of sense, thank you blah.  If you''re right, no doubt Mr Cullum has done his homework and knows it is feasible.  So what are we waiting for?  [/quote]

An offer than allows Delia and MWJ to recoup the money they''ve put in [/quote]

 

Exactly! Give that username a prize. 

 

 

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Makes a lot of sense, thank you blah.  If you''re right, no doubt Mr Cullum has done his homework and knows it is feasible.  So what are we waiting for?  [/quote]

An offer than allows Delia and MWJ to recoup the money they''ve put into the facilities, possibly ?

[/quote]

Under this arrangement D&M wouldn''t lose a penny if they stayed on as minority shareholders, and if PC''s investment can take the club forward they could benefit greatly in years to come. 

In a nutshell they''d rather have overall control of a failing club than a minority holding in a successful one.  Club''s best interests my aunt fanny . . .

 

 

[Mr.Carrow 378]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Canary Nut"]

No need for Delia to hand over (or sell) any shares. It seems that Mr. Cullum wanted to buy new shares (subject to an E.G.M.) direct from the club. So Mr Cullum would become the majority shareholder:

Mr Cullum                                              £20m.

The pre money holdings (as it is now)      £16m.   (Delia & MWJ   £9.8m worth at £30 per share. The rest of us £6.2m @ £30 per share)[/quote]But surely, Canary Nut, if the amount of shares were doubled then the value of existing shares would be halved?

Also, you are saying Cullum wanted new shares but in the two EDP statements I''ve quoted he has said nothing about buying shares, only that the £20m was for new players. Have I missed something?

[/quote]

If new shares were issued (doubling the issued number) for no money then the others value would be halved.  I think the value of the new cash coming in makes up for the value lost- until it`s spent anyway.

The £20m cash for new shares would be new money straight into the club so the board could decide to spend it however they want- new players, whatever.

[First Wazzock 904]

[quote user="Berkshire Canary"]I think I am starting to lose track of which parts of this saga are fact and which parts are pure speculation!! [*-)][/quote]

I''m not sure if I have even woken up yet. [|-)]

[Desi Rascall 0]

i think the share issue scenario is most likely what Skipper was alluding to in the press when he stepped down from the board, at the time another share issue appeared fanciful thinking given the fact that there had only been a recent issue that had not had 100% take up.However the idea would of course made perfect sense if a buyer was already lined up for the sale.

[lucky green trainers 0]

[quote user="Berkshire Canary"]I think I am starting to lose track of which parts of this saga are fact and which parts are pure speculation!! [*-)][/quote]

yeah, the whole thing is a typical little ole naarrwich farce.   glen ''i''m happy with my budget'' roedy must be tearing his hair out.  meanwhile, the first team squad play 5-a-side together...

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Canary Nut"]

No need for Delia to hand over (or sell) any shares. It seems that Mr. Cullum wanted to buy new shares (subject to an E.G.M.) direct from the club. So Mr Cullum would become the majority shareholder:

Mr Cullum                                              £20m.

The pre money holdings (as it is now)      £16m.   (Delia & MWJ   £9.8m worth at £30 per share. The rest of us £6.2m @ £30 per share)[/quote]But surely, Canary Nut, if the amount of shares were doubled then the value of existing shares would be halved?

Also, you are saying Cullum wanted new shares but in the two EDP statements I''ve quoted he has said nothing about buying shares, only that the £20m was for new players. Have I missed something?

[/quote]

If new shares were issued (doubling the issued number) for no money then the others value would be halved.  I think the value of the new cash coming in makes up for the value lost- until it`s spent anyway.

The £20m cash for new shares would be new money straight into the club so the board could decide to spend it however they want- new players, whatever.

[/quote]

From my post at 3.43pm today on this thread:

BUT you are forgetting about the £20m cash

Lets take a simple example:

£16 / 16 shares implies £1 per share

Issue 20 shares at £1 each for £20 cash

£16+£20 = £36

£36 / 36 shares implies £1 per share

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Makes a lot of sense, thank you blah.  If you''re right, no doubt Mr Cullum has done his homework and knows it is feasible.  So what are we waiting for?  [/quote]

An offer than allows Delia and MWJ to recoup the money they''ve put into the facilities, possibly ?

[/quote]

Under this arrangement D&M wouldn''t lose a penny if they stayed on as minority shareholders, and if PC''s investment can take the club forward they could benefit greatly in years to come. 

[/quote]

You have missed the point! While they hold the majority share block, it has value for anybody wanting to have majority control. As soon as it becomes a large minority holding who would want to buy it in the future?

[nutty nigel 7,618]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

If new shares were issued (doubling the issued number) for no money then the others value would be halved.  I think the value of the new cash coming in makes up for the value lost- until it`s spent anyway.

The £20m cash for new shares would be new money straight into the club so the board could decide to spend it however they want- new players, whatever.

[/quote]

Attractive as this may sound is it really that easy Mr Carrow?

It seems to me that after the initial excitement posters are blundering from one theory to another as they realise things are not as straight forward as they first thought. I know very little about company law and issuing shares but I would very much doubt if existing shareholders could have their shares diluted by half on a whim.

Maybe T or CambridgeCanary know the answer?

As for Lapps original question - there is as much evidence to say that Peter Cullum is a liar as there is to say Delia Smith''s one. I would like to think neither is and that they could both be involved in the future of our great club. I think it''s unfortunate that once more posters on this messageboard get involved in personal attacks when not in possession of all the facts and not fully understanding the facts they have.

The fence is still the safest place to be.

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

If new shares were issued (doubling the issued number) for no money then the others value would be halved.  I think the value of the new cash coming in makes up for the value lost- until it`s spent anyway.

The £20m cash for new shares would be new money straight into the club so the board could decide to spend it however they want- new players, whatever.

[/quote]

I know very little about company law and issuing shares but I would very much doubt if existing shareholders could have their shares diluted by half on a whim.

[/quote]

An Extraordinary General Meeting (E.G.M.) would be called and resolutions voted on.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]

As for Lapps original question - there is as much evidence to say that Peter Cullum is a liar as there is to say Delia Smith''s one. I would like to think neither is and that they could both be involved in the future of our great club. I think it''s unfortunate that once more posters on this messageboard get involved in personal attacks when not in possession of all the facts and not fully understanding the facts they have.

The fence is still the safest place to be.[/quote]

I must admit nutty, I had got down from the fence for a minute, but that was only to give it a lick of creosote.  Back on now !

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

BTW.  regarding the so called dilution, please see my post at 3.43pm today. That answers the question !

[canary cherub 1]

[quote user="Canary Nut"][quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Makes a lot of sense, thank you blah.  If you''re right, no doubt Mr Cullum has done his homework and knows it is feasible.  So what are we waiting for?  [/quote]

An offer than allows Delia and MWJ to recoup the money they''ve put into the facilities, possibly ?

[/quote]

Under this arrangement D&M wouldn''t lose a penny if they stayed on as minority shareholders, and if PC''s investment can take the club forward they could benefit greatly in years to come. 

[/quote]

You have missed the point! While they hold the majority share block, it has value for anybody wanting to have majority control. As soon as it becomes a large minority holding who would want to buy it in the future?

[/quote]

Not for Mr Cullum apparently . . .

Look, if both sides are willing they can come to some arrangement, like agreeing to buy out D&M if we get to the Prem for instance.  The Turners loan is repayable if we get to the Prem, so it''s been done before. 

 

[Carrow89 0]

A binner writes -" the whole thing is a typical little ole naarrwich farce"In all my years of living here and supporting NCFC I have only ever seen that expression used by the wretches from down the A140Not to difficult to flush out the anti club lot and who they really are.

ps A clueTheir posts are always an attack on the club in some shape or form