England

[nutty nigel 7,536]

[quote user="Mook"]

Blaming the foreigners! Typical. Right - here''s my reasons that England aren''t good enough:

There''s too many young english players happy in the reserves, earning their 10k a week, going to selfridges and dressing up like extras from Hollyoaks. If they were good enough, they''d play. Right?

PLUS the only other team with as many foreigners as England in their domestic league is ........... Germany. And they''re not doing too badly, are they?

PLUS one World Cup Semi Final in 41 years is hardly world beating form is it?? We''ve never actually got close to winning anything, regardless of foreigners, if we''re honest.

PLUS this pathetic desire for "100 miles per hour" football. What about touch, control, passing, possession, intelligence, speed of thought?????

PLUS our footballers have no bottle. How can professional footballers miss so many penalties??

Go on, tell me I''m wrong.

[/quote]

I am not sure many people on this thread were blaming the foreigners Mook, I certainly wasn''t.

 

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]trouble is that unlike the brazil or italy or argentina squad we only have 3 world class players the rest are good but not up to the standard of the other internationals

hers who i think are our world class players

gerard
hargreaves
rooney ( although i dont like the player)

thats it
[/quote]

Reasonable point, however....

John Terry - World Class CB

Ashley Cole - Try and name a better left back, bet you struggle...

Michael Owen - Has been and could be world class again...

[Mook 0]

The Germans play their unique game??? No they don''t! They play very much like us, competitive, use the flanks, move the ball quickly.

And as for them playing all over Europe - where? Who? Ballack and Lehman. Errrrrrm. That''s about it. 

The only thing that separates us from the Germans is that they have a "winning" mentality where it''s ok to win, and ok to want to win. We have a mentality that losing gallantly on penalties in the quarter final is acceptable, and makes us "lion hearts". CRAP. winning on pens in the QFs would make us Lion hearts, going on to win the tournament or at least make the final would make us a great team.

"The premier league is the best in world" - is it? It''s exciting to watch, but so is WWE. Don''t believe everything Sky Sports tell you.

And have you noticed that all tournaments are played in the Summer? When it''s hot? Therefore the reliance on 100 mile per hour football is a little bit flawed.

And as for the person saying we have as much quality as Argentina. HA HA!!!!!!! You what? Messi, Mascherano, Crespo, Cambiasso, Riquelme, Veron, Maxi Rodriguez, Tevez, Ayala, Zanetti and even Heinze would walk into our team.

Nutty, I know you weren''t blaming the foreigners, but let''s face it - most other people do because it''s a convenient excuse. We failed to qualify for the 74 and 78 World cups when we had no foreigners in our league, failed to qualify for the 94 World Cups with very few foreigners in our league. Nobody seems to mention the fact that playing with better players should make our boys better too!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]trouble is that unlike the brazil or italy or argentina squad we only have 3 world class players the rest are good but not up to the standard of the other internationals

hers who i think are our world class players

gerard
hargreaves
rooney ( although i dont like the player)

thats it
[/quote]

Reasonable point, however....

John Terry - World Class CB

Ashley Cole - Try and name a better left back, bet you struggle...

Michael Owen - Has been and could be world class again...

[/quote]

I think we have some good players, but scratch the surface and the quality just disappears, We have no decent goalie''s, an average defense, a midfield pairing that doesnt work, but continually gets picked??  We look seriously lacking up front beyond Rooney, with the ever injured Owen and the rest not really up to the task.

Worst of all we have a weak manager, unable to make the tough decisions needed.  SWP on the left in the last game sums up this joker.  Lety alone the continued selection of Lampard and Gerard, even tho they play in teh same positionm on a football pitch....

Pathetic

[Mook 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]trouble is that unlike the brazil or italy or argentina squad we only have 3 world class players the rest are good but not up to the standard of the other internationals

hers who i think are our world class players

gerard
hargreaves
rooney ( although i dont like the player)

thats it
[/quote]

Reasonable point, however....

John Terry - World Class CB

Ashley Cole - Try and name a better left back, bet you struggle...

Michael Owen - Has been and could be world class again...

[/quote]

Hargreaves? Bet you weren''t saying that 18 months ago, Dereham Canary!

Left back - Phillipp Lahm or Zambrotta please. I would actually prefer Bridge because although Cole is a great defender, his crossing is poor. Bridge used to play LM so he knows what to do when he gets forward.

John Terry is a great defender but doesn''t play that well for England. Neither does Rooney, or at least he hasn''t since 2004. John Barnes was world class, but never showed that for England. Back to the mentality issue again .... !

[Old Shuck 183]

I don''t care what many of the England players say about playing for England et al, their motiovation, for the very great majority of them is playing in the Champions League for their clubs and I bet most of them value doing that way above playing for their country.

And I don''t blame them one bit!

The clubs pay their wages and look out for them in every way they can, it is through playing for their clubs that they get exposure, both in the UK and worldwide, whilst also, playing for their clubs gives them a certain amount of protection and freedom from criticism-rightly or wrongly-that they may well get when playing for England. Look at Owen Hargreaves for one, when he came on as a sub in the last World Cup, many of the England fans booed him, the jeers were long and loud-now everyone is saying he should be a fixture alongside Gerrard, yet, if Hargreaves has a couple of bad games, the knives will be out again, the tolerance levels are far above what they are at club level. Same with Lampard-I laugh myself stupid reading letters on websites and other outlets calling him "over rated", how clueless can these ''correspondents'' be? If I was Lampard, I''d be tempted to do a Scholes/Carragher and quit international football, yet, if he did, those same fans who deride him would be the first to condemn the decision.

My own passion for England''s football team has dropped like a stone over the last few years-give me a choice between Norwich winning vs Palace and England beating Israel, and its Norwich for the three points every time, no question. Ditto the end of the season-Norwich promoted or England Euro Champs-don''t be silly, again, Norwich for promotion every time. And I would consider most people to think exactly along those lines. Does that make me a "traitor"-not really,again, like many people, my loyalities lay with friends and family, my home village and my county, Norfolk, before anything on a national scale. Expect that makes me a ''little Norfolker''-well, so be it.

What mystifies me about England is how the team defy all logic and refuse, or are incapable, of playing the game that they play, week in, week out, in the Premiership-(ie) fast, pressing, with pace and high energy, but, rather than that, seem to want to change to a slow, waiting game instead. Players seem frightened to make the braver of the two decisions open to them, a lot seem to prefer to pass the ball rather than try for goal, yet more simply cannot do what they do for their clubs in an England shirt, whilst many are given repeated chances to impress for England, long after a club site would have given up on them. It is, as has already been said, about mentality, approach and I have to say, their motivation.

The most amusing thing of all is, that after all this huffing and puffing towards qualification, with its myriad bad results, performances, players played out of position and mystical recalls, if England DO qualify for the finals, the players and the same media that has slated them throughout will expect nothing more than victory at the tournament and list all the reasons why, thus reversing all of the reasons they are currently listing us, as to why we never will!

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

[quote user="jimmy500"]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]trouble is that unlike the brazil or italy or argentina squad we only have 3 world class players the rest are good but not up to the standard of the other internationalshers who i think are our world class playersgerardhargreavesrooney ( although i dont like the player)thats it [/quote]

Reasonable point, however....

John Terry - World Class CB

Ashley Cole - Try and name a better left back, bet you struggle...

Michael Owen - Has been and could be world class again...

[/quote]i disagree ashley cole isnt that good a left back, gareth bale will become a better choice at left back then cole, roberto carlos is  better left back then cole, hienze, silvestre, evra, are all better at left back then cole, i even rate gallas as a better left back then cole, heres some more that are all better then cole

LahmGrosso

Chivu

Pernia

Antonio Lopez

Sorin

AurelioValenteand this is just going on performance for there international sides not just clubswe have no world class left midfielder, we have a world class defender in terry but he just doesnt play to his club form for englandwe have no world class right back however richards could become world classwe have no world class right midfielder as beckham wont be able to kep the pace after moving to la galaxy and lennon and wright phillips just havent been given a chance to really proove themselves, and as for goal keeper foster at man u has the chance to become a keeper equal to seaman and shilton if given the chance and lets face it we have missed a decent goalie of those twos standardand in attack, what has rooney done since 2004, owen relies to much on his pace and lets face it hes lost a yard or 2 since injuries, we sorely lack a shearer style player for england, i reckon giben the chance i think joe cole should be moved to play just of a striker rather then left back because i think he could do a decent job of holding the ball and feeding it through for a killer pass to a striker, take him off the left and lt him run at 2 centre backs rather then waste him on the left, id have the following formation to see if this would work

                                                  Foster/Green             Richards/Young         Terry/Ferdinand             Bale/Bridge          lennon/wright-phillips      Carrick/King    Hargreaves/Parker            Downing/Ashley Cole                                

   Gerrard/Lampard

                                                                   Joe Cole/Rooney                                                                                    Ashton/Owenwith wright phillips or lennon bombing down the right and Downing or ashley cole bombing down the left, ashley cole liks to attack more so this will give him the freedom to whilst being coverd defensively by bridge or bale

[Mook 0]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]

The most amusing thing of all is, that after all this huffing and puffing towards qualification, with its myriad bad results, performances, players played out of position and mystical recalls, if England DO qualify for the finals, the players and the same media that has slated them throughout will expect nothing more than victory at the tournament and list all the reasons why, thus reversing all of the reasons they are currently listing us, as to why we never will!

[/quote]

Fair play to you Old Shuck, this is absolutely spot on.

My foreign friends always take the p**s, because every two years the "This Time We Can Really Do It!!!" headlines come pouring out. If we qualify, you can bet it''ll happen!

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Mook"]

The Germans play their unique game??? No they don''t! They play very much like us, competitive, use the flanks, move the ball quickly.

And as for them playing all over Europe - where? Who? Ballack and Lehman. Errrrrrm. That''s about it. 

The only thing that separates us from the Germans is that they have a "winning" mentality where it''s ok to win, and ok to want to win. We have a mentality that losing gallantly on penalties in the quarter final is acceptable, and makes us "lion hearts". CRAP. winning on pens in the QFs would make us Lion hearts, going on to win the tournament or at least make the final would make us a great team.

"The premier league is the best in world" - is it? It''s exciting to watch, but so is WWE. Don''t believe everything Sky Sports tell you.

And have you noticed that all tournaments are played in the Summer? When it''s hot? Therefore the reliance on 100 mile per hour football is a little bit flawed.

[/quote]

Ahem, yes they do.  The German game is very technical pass and move training ground style football, the emphasis on there game is retention of shape and movement as a unit.  It is very technical and very disciplined.  Do you really believe that england play the same way?

Agree with you that the Germans have a winning mentality, and agree that it is something we lack

I don''t believe what sky sports tell me.  I believe the opinions of almost every footballer ever interviewed when asked what they think of the premier league.  Almost everyone is of the opinion that the premier league is on of if not the best in world.

Finally, irrelevant when the tournament is played, it is where the tournament is played that is key.  Japan and Korea was a farce with games being played in a ridiculous almost tropical climate.  In Portugal the weather was no excuse, in Austria/Switzerland there will be no excuse as the climate is similar to ours.

The point is, irrespective of all the waffle that has accompanied my post, is that England need to play to there strengths.  We need to select a system that will compliment our playing style and then select the best englishmen to suit that system.  At present it seems that Mr McLaren picks his best 11 players and then creates a system to suit them.  This philosophy will never work.

[7rew 0]

derehamcanary_fan:Bale on the left of a 3 man defense? he''s welsh and more suited to wing back anyway.King in the midfield? he''s a central defender.

[Old Shuck 183]

Good call on Gareth Bale, however, he is Welsh and has already played for Wales!

I actually think that, whilst Ashley Cole is a great athlete, as a footballer, he isn''t as good as Wayne Bridge and its him I''d pick in my England XI, which, if everyone was fit and available, would be (4-3-1-2)....

Carson

Richards

Terry

Woodgate

Bridge

 

Gerrard (I''m sorry if he doesn''t like it on the right but it gives a better balance in the middle and besides, he is great at bombing forward and inside from this position-also gets back quickly so play him to his strengths, the 3 man midfield also means he -and     isn''t confined to the touchline and has a bit of room inside and outside)

Cole, J

Barry   (another energetic player who can close down opposition players, but has a sweet left foot on him-this is not strictly, being a 3 man midfield, a left footed position, but, again, given the options, he has the range)

 

Rooney  (yep, bombing in and behind the front two in a "free" role and through the middle. Rooney, don''t you fucking dare go wide here, look for the ball and look to get it from the midfield)

 

Defoe

Ashton (not a traditional "big man" a''la Heskey, but plenty strong enough and he and Defoe will create loads of chances between them)

 

Never an England team in a million years of course, and Richards/Bridge would have to work particularly hard but one built to take the game to the opposition rather than letting them sit back.

*Owen is knackered so ta ta.

*Would beg Scholes to come back as cover for Rooney in that same position.

*Would expect Terry to get in the faces of the opposition and for Woodgate, much more of a footballer, to clear up behind him.

 

 

 

 

[Mook 0]

So what you''re saying is the Germans aren''t necessarily more skilled than our players, just more disciplined. Well, that''s easy enough, right? Just get some of our players to sit round a white board, and we can teach them how to win 3 world cups. I''m sorry, but I would wager that you don''t have that much contact with German football, and I can assure you that I do. They stay in their positions, just like us. They play 4-4-2 (usually) just like us. The difference is that we play the long ball, which works very rarely indeed.

Of course players say it''s "the best league in the world" but that''s just like the pundits saying Gerrard is the "best midfielder in the world". It''s easy. Of course he is one of the best, but it doesn''t mean that Fabregas, Riquelme, Essien, Kaka, Frings or Pirlo are not as good as him. If you watched another league all the time, you''d probably think one of the players from that league was "the best in the world". The English Premier league is exciting, the Italian league is fascinating, the Spanish league is subtle but full of theatre and interest, the bundesliga is really turning into a prospectively fantastic league now Bayern don''t rule the roost. And who knows about the Argentinian and Portugese leagues. You''ll find the reason everyone bigs the league up is MONEY. And we definitely have the most of that in our game. For the best? Who knows.

You''ll find that playing in 35 degree heat in July in North West Europe is pretty sapping on the players'' strengths if they''re going to charge about like headless chickens for 90 minutes. Wouldn''t a bit of controlled passing and movement help?

Finally, I totally agree with your last point. We won the world cup with the best team, and strategy, not the best players.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]

i disagree ashley cole isnt that good a left back, gareth bale will become a better choice at left back then cole, roberto carlos is  better left back then cole, hienze, silvestre, evra, are all better at left back then cole, i even rate gallas as a better left back then cole,

heres some more that are all better then cole

Lahm
Grosso
Chivu
Pernia
Antonio Lopez
Sorin
Aurelio
Valente

and this is just going on performance for there international sides not just clubs

we have no world class left midfielder,
we have a world class defender in terry but he just doesnt play to his club form for england
we have no world class right back however richards could become world class
we have no world class right midfielder as beckham wont be able to kep the pace after moving to la galaxy and lennon and wright phillips just havent been given a chance to really proove themselves,
and as for goal keeper foster at man u has the chance to become a keeper equal to seaman and shilton if given the chance and lets face it we have missed a decent goalie of those twos standard
and in attack, what has rooney done since 2004, owen relies to much on his pace and lets face it hes lost a yard or 2 since injuries, we sorely lack a shearer style player for england, i reckon giben the chance i think joe cole should be moved to play just of a striker rather then left back because i think he could do a decent job of holding the ball and feeding it through for a killer pass to a striker, take him off the left and lt him run at 2 centre backs rather then waste him on the left, id have the following formation to see if this would work


                                                  Foster/Green

             Richards/Young         Terry/Ferdinand             Bale/Bridge    

    

lennon/wright-phillips      Carrick/King    Hargreaves/Parker            Downing/Ashley Cole
                                

   Gerrard/Lampard

                                                                   Joe Cole/Rooney

                                               

                                    Ashton/Owen

with wright phillips or lennon bombing down the right and Downing or ashley cole bombing down the left, ashley cole liks to attack more so this will give him the freedom to whilst being coverd defensively by bridge or bale



[/quote]

Ashley Cole...not had his best form over the last couple of seasons but unquestionably one of the best left backs in the game when he does find form.

I''d also consider Rio to be a "World Class" defender.

No World Class right back...well I think Gary Neville is exactly what you''d call a World Class right back. For the last few years he''s been first choice in that position for Manchester Utd and England. That is without doubt the mark of a World Class player.

You''re only speculating on Beckhams future involvement so at the moment he remains a World Class player for us.

Goalkeeper wise... that''s the only place I''d say we don''t have really good quality. Although David James might just be about to show his best form for England, if given the chance.

"Owen relies too much on his pace" I wonder if you understand what Michael Owens game is about. Owen is all about movement and positioning and he''s a good finisher. A bit of pace is handy for him but it''s not the end of the world if he''s slowed down a bit.

 

[Mason 47 1,379]

Indy Bones does touch on an interesting point... the fact that most England ''regulars'' are picked on reputation regardless of current form for club or recent form for country. take rooney- last scored for england 3 years ago now, and everyone is saying hes world class and is a must starter...HES NOT THAT GOOD! and as for hux for england, can anyone name me an english player that has his directness and pace? IMO he''d be good for a game, even better when he was younger, but hes only ever played for the ''b'' team once. the reason for this is a lack of ambition by the england managers. As for speedy jonzales, why not? i think the reason that guys like richards have such good performances is that they know they gotta work hard and keep their form up to stay in the frame, which guys like lampard dont do. theres certainly a likeness between england and norwich, the ''one goal then defend for your lives'' play, which both teams cant seem to do because they both dont have the players to go out and defend, so why not go on the attack? thats how city played at chelsea, an we looked good until we tired out. plus, does anyone see a likeness between Wright-phillips and Eagle, both young wingers that have a terrible lack of pace and dont really look like being anything special in the next forever? 

 my team-

                                                Gk- James (Carson Long Term)

 

                              CB- Richards                     CB- Terry

RB-Speedy Jonzales                                                                LB-Cole (Shorey Long term)

                                        DMF- Hargreaves 

 

                                          CMF- Gerrard

 

RAMF- Lennon                                                                                           LAMF- Huckerby

                        

                                    SS- Owen/ Defoe               

 

                                                 CF- Crouch 

 

We know Crouch works well with Huckerby!

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Ashley Cole...not had his best form over the last couple of seasons but unquestionably one of the best left backs in the game when he does find form.

I''d also consider Rio to be a "World Class" defender.

No World Class right back...well I think Gary Neville is exactly what you''d call a World Class right back. For the last few years he''s been first choice in that position for Manchester Utd and England. That is without doubt the mark of a World Class player.

You''re only speculating on Beckhams future involvement so at the moment he remains a World Class player for us.

Goalkeeper wise... that''s the only place I''d say we don''t have really good quality. Although David James might just be about to show his best form for England, if given the chance.

"Owen relies too much on his pace" I wonder if you understand what Michael Owens game is about. Owen is all about movement and positioning and he''s a good finisher. A bit of pace is handy for him but it''s not the end of the world if he''s slowed down a bit.

 

[/quote]ok my mistake about bale but as someone else has mentioned, shorey would be good at left back, neville sure hes a great player but hes lost his place to richards, sorry but i think we need to be looking to the future and bleeding some of our better class younger players, how can beckham be considered when hell plying his trade at a club that lets face is hardly up to the same standards as our premiership or the seria A or la liga, personally fosters the choice for me prooved for the last 2 seasons hes gonna be good just watch him when hes back from injury, hell be number 1 ahead of van der sar, okay you say owen but what exactly has he done in the last few years, not much injury prone, not ure 20-30 goal a season striker anymore, his pace is what hes all about, often he gets caught short by a more pacier defender, yes hes good but for me needs to move over for some fresh talent, and i put king in a holding midfield role because hes played fantasticly for spurs several times in that holding midfield role, anyway what i was trying to get over was we need to move away from having some of these big egos playing, and on current form they cant play together so we need to get a manager wholl move away from playing players out of position and concentrate on playing players in a position that they play at there clubs, anyway changing debate slightly who would you have as captain of england and who would you have as manager

[GJP 79]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"][quote user="GJP"]

Ashley Cole...not had his best form over the last couple of seasons but unquestionably one of the best left backs in the game when he does find form.

I''d also consider Rio to be a "World Class" defender.

No World Class right back...well I think Gary Neville is exactly what you''d call a World Class right back. For the last few years he''s been first choice in that position for Manchester Utd and England. That is without doubt the mark of a World Class player.

You''re only speculating on Beckhams future involvement so at the moment he remains a World Class player for us.

Goalkeeper wise... that''s the only place I''d say we don''t have really good quality. Although David James might just be about to show his best form for England, if given the chance.

"Owen relies too much on his pace" I wonder if you understand what Michael Owens game is about. Owen is all about movement and positioning and he''s a good finisher. A bit of pace is handy for him but it''s not the end of the world if he''s slowed down a bit.

 

[/quote]

ok my mistake about bale but as someone else has mentioned, shorey would be good at left back, neville sure hes a great player but hes lost his place to richards, sorry but i think we need to be looking to the future and bleeding some of our better class younger players, how can beckham be considered when hell plying his trade at a club that lets face is hardly up to the same standards as our premiership or the seria A or la liga, personally fosters the choice for me prooved for the last 2 seasons hes gonna be good just watch him when hes back from injury, hell be number 1 ahead of van der sar, okay you say owen but what exactly has he done in the last few years, not much injury prone, not ure 20-30 goal a season striker anymore, his pace is what hes all about, often he gets caught short by a more pacier defender, yes hes good but for me needs to move over for some fresh talent,

and i put king in a holding midfield role because hes played fantasticly for spurs several times in that holding midfield role,

anyway what i was trying to get over was we need to move away from having some of these big egos playing, and on current form they cant play together so we need to get a manager wholl move away from playing players out of position and concentrate on playing players in a position that they play at there clubs,

anyway changing debate slightly who would you have as captain of england and who would you have as manager
[/quote]

Michael Owen has never had blistering pace though, sure he''s quick but he''s never had scarey pace. I maintain, he''s a thinking player who uses his intelligence more than anything else. Speed of thought is just as important.

England Captain...Steven Gerrard. Take out Lampard and partner Steven Gerrard (as captain) with Owen Hargreaves in the middle of the park and that''s a midfield that''ll stand up to anything else out there.

England manager...Sam Allardyce. Shame the BBC made that bung program, the FA clearly knew that was coming. I wouldn''t have Hiddink, he''s a nearly man. Big Phil would have been decent but the whole thing about being put off by the media was a bit soft, England boss is the biggest job in the game...what did he expect?

I quite like Steve Coppell, although I think Reading are a bit in danger of "Second Season Syndrome" I think he knows what he''s doing. He seems to be fairly emotionless but there''s a clear determination in his eyes.

[ManchesterCanary 0]

Interesting posts but some missing the point...we fool ourselves, assisted by the incompetent FA and pathetically jingoistic media, that we have a world class team and almost a devine right not only to to qualify but to win a tournament. Apart from 66 & 70 (yes 37 years ago!) we have never had a team good enough of winning the world cup and no way under the current set up will we ever have. Not just because of the numpty''s in the FA, our tactically inept managers and technically inept players but because there are ,and always will be, more skillful and better equipped teams than us (Brasil, France et all). No amount of bias media coverage or tub thumping beer bellied supporters will change that. Until we have a revolution in our game that is, and sacrifice 100 mph hoofball for guile, craft, nous and skill...sadly I just cannot see that happening in my lifetime.

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

the problem is that the big names already playing know there positions are safe in the england set up, mclaren said he wanted to make sure the players know hes the manager by saying hed drop the players that werent performing, yet he picks lampard and ferdinand and rooney everytime when there fit even tho they do nothing, we need a manager that is going to show some balls and drop em when they dont perform for england, the problem is tho that a gerrard shirt will always outsell a lennon or wrigh-phillips shirt and this is the problem the fa is all about marketing and getting the revenue in and will always force the players picked to be the ones that will make th most in shirt revenues and its the players from the likes of chelski, man u, and liverpool will akways sell more shirts for england then a player from the likes of wigan and derby, i think we should take a leaf out of the welsh play book and look at talent not just from the prem but the championship aswell, as it seems to be working for wales, scotland, ni and roii agree id love to see big sam as manager, but i also wouldve loved to have seen martin o''niel give manger of england because he has the knack of taking a fairly mid level squad and turning them into a team that can win things, with regards to captain i reckon hargreaves would be a good choice as hes best at sitting in front of defence and can issue orders further up the field

[GJP 79]

[quote user="derehamcanary_fan"]

i think we should take a leaf out of the welsh play book and look at talent not just from the prem but the championship aswell, as it seems to be working for wales, scotland, ni and roi

[/quote]

They have to do that, they don''t have that much to pick from. With the odd exception of someone like Dave Nugent (who has since failed to shine in the Premiership) there is no need for England to look below the Premiership for players. England are comfortably a better team than any of them too.

[YGB 0]

Dereham canary fan some of your suggestions are some of the worst ive ever seen. You would rather downing to Joe Cole - you must be the only englishman alive. Hargreaves is world class lampard isnt - tackling is the only attribute hargreaves has on lamps. ashton and johnson not rooney and owen - pure mental. Bale english?? - just about sums your point of view up. Terry not world class?? - would be in the starting line up of any team in the world. ledley king center midfield- and rooney left back or are you happy with him playing in the correct position (suppose we always have bale)????

[DisorientatedCanary 0]

derehamcanary_fan, well aslong as FIFA allow players to play for more than one international team and Mr Bale decides he really doesn''t like leeks that much after all we''ll be ok will we?. well thats nice isn''t it. a clear lack of knowledge of anything about the world beyond your garden fence, a lack which is only re-inforced by the choice of Young in a 3 man defence, im sure Micah Richards will be over the moon at that option. my god what next?, Ryan Giggs on the left flank and Nicky Hunt at right back?. im so glad i got out of bed for this.

[derehamcanary_fan 0]

FFS (yeah everyone knows what this means) ive already apologised for mentioning bale, read the rest of the posts, obviously no one has cos what ive said is we need to move away from the big egos that aint performing well at international level and try those that appear to want it by there actions of playing superbly at there clubs, joe cole has been a non starter for chelsea this season, y i dont know after watching the game yesterday i admit he played well, but after that performance last night how can lampard be selected, barry did a better job then lampard has everdone for england, so did heskey who was certainly a lot better for england then rooney has been since 2004, how many of those players last night were actually taking there chances to show that they should be selcted as a regular sean wirght phillips certainly shone as did richards and barry even heskey, but hey what am i thinking cos if ebgland played them then thered be no room for the likes of lampard, or neville or rooney, players with which england have played and certainly performed worse then a welsh team that by peoples opinion only have nugent as a decent player or scot land for that matter, but hold on ni, roi and scotland all seem to be doing well and lets face it there groups are a lot more difficult then ours, who do we have russia, and isreal, hardly gonna set the world alight compared to france, germany, italy, spain, sweden etc,

theres a good bit on the sky website about who should play for england on current form supplied by opta,gk harperdef richards,ferdinand,gardner, cole mid young, gerrard, lampard, and oh what a surprise downingAtt heskey and oh what a surprise johnsoncheck it outhttp://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_2712483,00.html on current form thats several of the players i chose but hey what do i knowwell ive had enough of this website as all my own opinions are crap and i should go with the masses well this is one fan that aint gonna be a sheep

[GJP 79]

derehamcanary_fan

...you really do not know what you''re talking about.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

 Kinda gone quiet on here since yesterday afternoon, eh?

''Fair dos''. Maclaren & Venables got it right on the day. Can they maintain it or was it a ''one off'' - that is the big question.

Lampard was out through injury rather than choice - so maybe it was an accident, and they just got lucky. Let''s see what happens with this situation on Wednesday.

I think that Richards, Barry, Wright-Phillips and Heskey have to start on Saturday. There''s nothing like rewarding performance to boost confidence.

OTBC

 

OTBC

[Michael Starr 519]

I''m gonna put my 5p worth in here... simple theory... only select form players... and actually start with them. Look at Wright-Phillips and Richards... awesome on Saturday, both in form... Heskey... in form... ;)

[ZLF 274]

Is it a coincidence that we performed better as a team without the usual mix of big name no show midfielders that usually dominate out game?  For once we had a team rather than 11 individuals and the side played with passion and committment;  and it says everything that Gerrard was the least effective midfielder on show.  He may hve the bigger reputation and technically be better than Barry but you wouldnt have known on Sat.  Likewise SWP on the right gave us somuch more than Becks,  as did Richards at right back and even Heskey up front.

Some players also perform better on the international stage than for their club,  and that should be taken into account;  Crouch, King, Hargreaves, Lennon even Owen nowadays (his strike rate remains phenomenal) and maybe Barry now would fit into that category. For me these should be starting ahead of Terry, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard & Becks because they have shown they can make a difference at this level.

If we could get that sort of committment from our tchnically best players then we would be in the fight for the titles every other year.

 

[Shack Attack 0]

England''s biggest problem is that they only have one style of football, 4-4-2 played with a high tempo. Whilst this style clearly where our strengths lie, it will only get you so far. To get past the better teams you need to have the guile and technical ability to unlock a defence.

Until the FA realise this and change the way the game is coached in this country we''re stuck with the uniquely English style that we play with now, and which has resulted in failure for the past 40 years.

Occasionally we''ll get a manager and a set of players who are intelligent enough to realise that 100mph football doesn''t win major tournaments but this is all too rare. I''m thinking about the 4-1 vs Holland in 1996, the 0-0 in Rome to qualify for the 1998 WC and the 1-0 vs Argentina in 2002. In all of those games we changed our style to almost match the opposition.

We need to be more flexible and our players more adaptable to new ideas. If a few more of our players took a chance and went to play in another country this may help them in that respect, but very few of the big name European teams seem interested in our players. I wonder why that is?

Saturday''s performance was a huge improvement on anything that we''ve previously produced under McLaren, but Israel were very poor. We''ll see if there has been a major improvement on Wednesday when we take on much better opposition. IMO McLaren''s biggest mistake was appointing John Terry as captain, he lacks the pace and intelligence to be a world class centre back.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Is it a coincidence that we performed better as a team without the usual mix of big name no show midfielders that usually dominate out game?  For once we had a team rather than 11 individuals and the side played with passion and committment;  and it says everything that Gerrard was the least effective midfielder on show.  He may hve the bigger reputation and technically be better than Barry but you wouldnt have known on Sat.  Likewise SWP on the right gave us somuch more than Becks,  as did Richards at right back and even Heskey up front.

Some players also perform better on the international stage than for their club,  and that should be taken into account;  Crouch, King, Hargreaves, Lennon even Owen nowadays (his strike rate remains phenomenal) and maybe Barry now would fit into that category. For me these should be starting ahead of Terry, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard & Becks because they have shown they can make a difference at this level.

If we could get that sort of committment from our tchnically best players then we would be in the fight for the titles every other year.

 

[/quote]

Great Post, the injuries to Lampard and Dyer are blessings for England.  Fat Frank has been ineffectual for England for far too long now, Micah Richards appears to have won the right back slot for good, and Heskey and Owen proved that a decent partnership can be more potent than the sum of the parts. 

Beckham is good to have in the squad, but with Joe Cole on the left it is good to have genuine pace on the right.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

I read this morning that McLaren hopes Hargreaves will be fit to face the Russians.  I do hope this is just wild speculation because IMO it will an absolute travesty if the same starting 11 don''t face the Russians.

All in all I think a decent performance saturday.  For me the most notable improvement was the balance and shape of the side.  Barry & Gerrard looked great in midfield together.  Joe Cole creates so much.  Wright Phillips direct running was a constant threat.  The centre halves looked strong.  Heskey (and I never thought I would say this) played really well, his power is a real asset.  For me though the stand out performance was from young Micah Richards, that boy has world class in the making stamped all over him.

I think the important thing is continuity.  We need to establish a preferred 11 and a system to suit then persist with it.  We need to force teams to adjust their shape to match us and not vice-versa as someone else has suggested.

[missing in action? 0]

that interests me,you say about the champions league and how that seems affct the national game.....yes, we do have a majority of our talent staying in the Premiership or Europe, maybe we need to invade the foreign countries?hargreaves is a prime example of how a foreign stup is different to the english one, but for the better......hargreaves had better treatment and a better up-bringing than smeone like downing....or anybody else you want to name,i think if you play abroad you will become accustomed to it and understand them better,the premiership is a unique setup, not for its style of football.....but because of the fact that its a mixture of all of them.players can struggle to sttle in the league cos they dont know what style they play, whereas in italy, we know its slow, in germany its a passing league, spain has the fare/tricks, and the prem is the runt of the litter with a mixture of all the rubbish left-overs, and its not helping out young players develop....