The Knapper Effect.

[hogesar 9,692]

1 hour ago, The Bunny said:

 

The jury is still out on SvH (agreed that he hasn't set the world alight yet), but Idah was desperately in need of a loan. The fact that he spent so many seasons without regular football was borderline negligence on the part of the previous SD. 

Idah needed a loan previous seasons. He didn't desperately need one this season when he was scoring important goals from the bench and getting good minutes. Especially not in January, mid-season, mid-playoff-push. 

[kinggoblin 37]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Idah needed a loan previous seasons. He didn't desperately need one this season when he was scoring important goals from the bench and getting good minutes. Especially not in January, mid-season, mid-playoff-push. 

You can't make a player stay if he has asked for a move, and in Idah's case he was never going to be in the starting line up when Sarge came back, and so for the benefit of all concerned I believe the correct decision was made, and you never know he may come back full of confidence and ready to fight for his place.

[hogesar 9,692]

Just now, kinggoblin said:

You can't make a player stay if he has asked for a move, and in Idah's case he was never going to be in the starting line up when Sarge came back, and so for the benefit of all concerned I believe the correct decision was made, and you never know he may come back full of confidence and ready to fight for his place.

That's great but I'm more concerned with our team and what's best for our promotion push. Having Idah to bring on away to QPR and Blackburn could have been enough to turn draws into wins, as opposed to an unfit striker, tying Wagners hands in those games.

[RobJames 881]

13 minutes ago, kinggoblin said:

You can't make a player stay if he has asked for a move, and in Idah's case he was never going to be in the starting line up when Sarge came back, and so for the benefit of all concerned I believe the correct decision was made, and you never know he may come back full of confidence and ready to fight for his place.

You can have all the confidence in the world, as I am sure hundreds of lower league players do have

However, it is competence that counts. That ability t be faster, more consistent and skilful which Idah lacks, If Celtic coaches can instil that ability/bring it out all the better for the lad, and us,

Time will tell

[hogesar 9,692]

28 minutes ago, RobJames said:

You can have all the confidence in the world, as I am sure hundreds of lower league players do have

However, it is competence that counts. That ability t be faster, more consistent and skilful which Idah lacks, If Celtic coaches can instil that ability/bring it out all the better for the lad, and us,

Time will tell

He was the top scorer from the bench in the championship,  he was doing more than enough for the team, certainly compared to his replacement.

[repman 635]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

That's great but I'm more concerned with our team and what's best for our promotion push. Having Idah to bring on away to QPR and Blackburn could have been enough to turn draws into wins, as opposed to an unfit striker, tying Wagners hands in those games.

Idah had been pushing for a move from before the window, it was only Hwang's 'injury' that held it off a little bit as the club had told him that we'd be going with 3 strikers instead of 4. When that game time didn't come through and Celtic came in for him his mind was pretty much made up. Now the issue of SVH as his replacement is a separate one, but it was much more us getting someone in as Idah was off, rather than us getting someone in to let Idah go. 

[Google Bot 3,278]

15 minutes ago, repman said:

Now the issue of SVH as his replacement is a separate one, but it was much more us getting someone in as Idah was off, rather than us getting someone in to let Idah go.

I do wonder if there was something in the Mikey Johnston rumours as SvH was a target for Celtic originally too.  Seems a weird coincidence that we were linked with a Celtic player coming here in Johnston, a player Celtic wanted (SvH), and ended up loaning a player to Celtic.

Edited March 19 by Google Bot

[The Bunny 310]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

Idah needed a loan previous seasons. He didn't desperately need one this season when he was scoring important goals from the bench and getting good minutes. Especially not in January, mid-season, mid-playoff-push. 

The fact that he didn't get a loan in previous seasons made it all the more important that he got regular game time this season. As others have stated, he wouldn't have had this with us once both Barnes and Sargent were back.

These are exactly the type of long term considerations that a good SD should be considering. Not just thinking about the club's on pitch success this season, but future seasons too, and maintaining the value of our assets. Idah's development has been massively stifled by a lack of game time and that's because of short term thinking and poor decision making from those in charge. It's good to see it finally being rectified under Knapper. 

[hogesar 9,692]

8 hours ago, The Bunny said:

The fact that he didn't get a loan in previous seasons made it all the more important that he got regular game time this season. As others have stated, he wouldn't have had this with us once both Barnes and Sargent were back.

These are exactly the type of long term considerations that a good SD should be considering. Not just thinking about the club's on pitch success this season, but future seasons too, and maintaining the value of our assets. Idah's development has been massively stifled by a lack of game time and that's because of short term thinking and poor decision making from those in charge. It's good to see it finally being rectified under Knapper. 

We have had more players out under loan with Webber than any other CEO or SD in our history. If anything, a lot of our recruitment bar this individual season, was always with long-term thinking not the short-term you're now referring too.

And Idah's development wasn't going to fall of a cliff by remaining here for another 4 months. He would still have got game time as Sargent needs managing. He was getting game time. He was scoring goals from the bench. All whilst we fight for a pretty important 6th place.

Any SD worth their salt would have done everything possible to make that 6th place achievable rather than make it more difficult. I can only imagine the uproar had Webber loaned out goal-scoring fit Idah and replaced him with a un-fit, unsuitable and non-scoring "cheap" alternative.

[Indy 3,301]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We have had more players out under loan with Webber than any other CEO or SD in our history. If anything, a lot of our recruitment bar this individual season, was always with long-term thinking not the short-term you're now referring too.

And Idah's development wasn't going to fall of a cliff by remaining here for another 4 months. He would still have got game time as Sargent needs managing. He was getting game time. He was scoring goals from the bench. All whilst we fight for a pretty important 6th place.

Any SD worth their salt would have done everything possible to make that 6th place achievable rather than make it more difficult. I can only imagine the uproar had Webber loaned out goal-scoring fit Idah and replaced him with a un-fit, unsuitable and non-scoring "cheap" alternative.

Trouble is Hog, as you might have said and other definitely have said in the past, a player who doesn’t want to be here is better off out the door! Idah certainly must have had a big say in this move, he wasn’t getting the game time he wanted and to be fair to Idah his performance on paper wasn’t bad, yet he got a lot of criticism.

So unless we definitely know the circumstances we can only wonder, but I’m starting to thing your view of VH might be correct, still I’ll reserve my full judgement at the end of the season just in case he starts and starts to bang the goals in! Can’t see it though!

[shefcanary 2,410]

12 hours ago, Google Bot said:

I do wonder if there was something in the Mikey Johnston rumours as SvH was a target for Celtic originally too.  Seems a weird coincidence that we were linked with a Celtic player coming here in Johnston, a player Celtic wanted (SvH), and ended up loaning a player to Celtic.

I'm sure there was a conversation between Celtic's recruitment guys and Norwich's recruitment guys which started looking at a specific deal (Johnston to Norwich) but after money issues entered the discussion it got around to an "anything else we could be interested in?" type conversation. And lo, something else happened.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Sometimes not diving in and reforming for the sake of changing things around - just getting your own perception of how things work before going in with changes - is a very wise way to start.

[repman 635]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

I'm sure there was a conversation between Celtic's recruitment guys and Norwich's recruitment guys which started looking at a specific deal (Johnston to Norwich) but after money issues entered the discussion it got around to an "anything else we could be interested in?" type conversation. And lo, something else happened.

It's probably more that there weren't that many players available, and if you then narrow that group down to young-ish players then there's even less. SVH had a good goalscoring season in the Eredivisie in his age 22 season, that will be enough to get you on the list of most recruitment teams. 

Johnston is a winger so he wasn't really what we were looking for.

[canarybubbles 1,923]

I don't think it's fair to attack Knapper for the loan of SvH, even if he turns out to be a total flop. Knapper has said publicly several times that the club had been chasing SvH for quite a while, which means that this originated under Webber and was perhaps almost fait accompli by the time Knapper had his feet under the table.

It's like blaming an incoming CEO for poor sales figures two months after he arrives. Let's give Knapper some time and see what he can do.

Edited March 22 by canarybubbles

[hogesar 9,692]

4 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

I don't think it's fair to attack Knapper for the loan of SvH, even if he turns out to be a total flop. Knapper has said publicly several times that the club had been chasing SvH for quite a while, which means that this originated under Webber and was perhaps almost fait accompli by the time Knapper had his feet under the table.

It's like blaming an incoming CEO for poor sales figures two months after he arrives. Let's give Knapper some time and see what he can do.

That's absolute nonsense and we've had this discussion previously. We looked at him for a period of time but we never "chased him". We actively decided not to sign him - hence we didn't.

It's totally fair game to attribute a signing to the SD that signed that player. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

Just now, hogesar said:

 

It's totally fair game to attribute a signing to the SD that signed that player. 

Especially when they get all the stick for failures.

[Capt. Pants 4,252]

SVH even mentioned in a video interview that Celtic had previously been interested in him, but nothing further came of it. Seems they went for Idah instead.

I'm still pretty savage about this but hopefully Sid will prove me and other doubters wrong.

As far as Idah wanting a move is concerned I'd be saying to him your on a 5 year contract sunshine, earn it. Plus there us absolutely no evidence he was unhappy and not trying. Seemed quite the opposite actually.

[Google Bot 3,278]

48 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I'm still pretty savage about this but hopefully Sid will prove me and other doubters wrong.

Let's be honest, a headed winner late in the Ipswich match will turn him into a legend.  And he's at least capable of that.

[Corbs1 89]

I’m not adding anything new to the discussion, but my view of Idah has changed this season. Simply put, when I saw him on the bench, I did think we had a player who could cause problems coming on. This was the shift in my thinking, more expectation. Todate Sid is more hope over expectation.