Idah

[hogesar 9,709]

2 minutes ago, repman said:

Van Hooijdonk not coming on in the last 15/20 minutes has nothing to do with a lack of match fitness and all to do with Wagner not choosing to bring him on. We know that Idah would've been 3rd choice behind Sargent and Barnes so his game time would've been limited anyway. He'd have probably been 4th choice if Wagner had got his way and we'd kept Hwang too. Knapper has the job of balancing this season and the next, but whatever players he brings in will always be beholden to who the manager picks.

Well it could be all to do with lack of match fitness then couldn't it? If his lack of match fitness is resulting in him not looking sharp un training and therefore not getting minutes?

[Indy 3,307]

46 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Nah, his link up play with Sargent has been pivotal and if you get to speak to Josh 1 on 1 he will sing the praises of how much Barnes helps him.

I think Barnes is the opposite to what you say, because he's not a big goalscorer fans don't bother noticing the space he creates for Sargent, the positions he takes up to occupy multiple opposition players etc.

Really, can you back that up with how many goals he’s actually set up directly to Sargent? How many has he been pivotal in directly creating?

Edited February 25 by Indy

[Capt. Pants 4,263]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Bit of a gap in quality between Championship teams and Motherwell mind

Strangely Pukki was a bit of a failure at Celtic against the likes of Motherwell. It means nothing really.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,756]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

Strangely Pukki was a bit of a failure at Celtic against the likes of Motherwell. It means nothing really.

To be fair he had hair when he was at Celtic. Only turned into a world class striker when he went bald..

[hogesar 9,709]

1 hour ago, Jersey Canary said:

Is on the bench vs Motherwell. That hasn’t taken long. 

Minutes silence for the OP who saw an opportunity to criticise one of our youth products and now....

[hogesar 9,709]

Just now, Indy said:

Really, can you back that up with how many goals he’s actually assured directly to Sargent? How many has he been pivotal in directly creating?

I dont need to. Ask Josh himself. But Barnes has directly assisted 3 of Sargents goals and been involved in 5 more. So 80% of Sargents goals.

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

6 minutes ago, Indy said:

Argh the Superior support syndrome again! So you think he’s been given a fair chance by all those fans turning on him online? 

Pretty clear I wasn’t talking about supporters. I said he’s been given plenty of chances ie by several managers…you know, on the pitch where it matters.

Edited February 25 by Branston Pickle

[repman 635]

4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Well it could be all to do with lack of match fitness then couldn't it? If his lack of match fitness is resulting in him not looking sharp un training and therefore not getting minutes?

I guess it could be, although the more obvious answer is that it's simply Wagner making a point/being awkward. The SvH signing was done with one eye on next season, we've seen plenty of times that Wagner has no interest in that. 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

1 minute ago, repman said:

I guess it could be, although the more obvious answer is that it's simply Wagner making a point/being awkward. The SvH signing was done with one eye on next season, we've seen plenty of times that Wagner has no interest in that. 

How so?  Do enlighten me!  

[canarybubbles 1,924]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Minutes silence for the OP who saw an opportunity to criticise one of our youth products and now....

We all get it wrong sometimes, Hogesar. Am I allowed to mention Dean Smith?

[hogesar 9,709]

2 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

We all get it wrong sometimes, Hogesar. Am I allowed to mention Dean Smith?

I guess as a Norwich fan I see a significant difference between defending a manager of the club vs a desperate attempt to slate a youth academy product.

If you don't then that's fine, it takes all sort of "fans"

[hogesar 9,709]

5 minutes ago, repman said:

I guess it could be, although the more obvious answer is that it's simply Wagner making a point/being awkward. The SvH signing was done with one eye on next season, we've seen plenty of times that Wagner has no interest in that. 

How is it, in any way, shape or form, more obvious that Wagner is "being awkward". He wouldn't have come on at all so far if that were the case.

I would suggest it is pretty utter desperation on your side to find a way to make it all Wagners fault here in all honesty.

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

47 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Barnes has been good for us. I'm more concerned Knapper was happy to loan out Idah and bring in a non match fit striker who doesn't look a similar style of player for what we need.

Yes, this looks like a bizarre decision in terms of this season. I guess it might make sense on a more long-term basis, to send Idah away from the negativity he's received here and give him a chance to build some confidence, while also taking a look at SvH. But in terms of our play-off push, all we've done is swap a decent option from the bench for a player who Wagner doesn't want to use.

It's a Sporting Director's decision, not a Head Coach's one...

[canarybubbles 1,924]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I guess as a Norwich fan I see a significant difference between defending a manager of the club vs a desperate attempt to slate a youth academy product.

If you don't then that's fine, it takes all sort of "fans"

Yes, some of us are willing to admit it when we get it wrong (e.g. me, regarding Sargent).

[hogesar 9,709]

1 minute ago, canarybubbles said:

Yes, some of us are willing to admit it when we get it wrong (e.g. me, regarding Sargent).

I've been pretty open about getting it wrong, although that has zero to do with my post regarding slating a youth academy product vs defending the clubs manager. Again, if you can't see the difference then it's testament to how hard the club has to build a siege mentality against some of its own "fans".

I thought Husband was going to be a decent LB, by the way.

[hogesar 9,709]

5 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yes, this looks like a bizarre decision in terms of this season. I guess it might make sense on a more long-term basis, to send Idah away from the negativity he's received here and give him a chance to build some confidence, while also taking a look at SvH. But in terms of our play-off push, all we've done is swap a decent option from the bench for a player who Wagner doesn't want to use.

It's a Sporting Director's decision, not a Head Coach's one...

Maybe it's all part of the bigger plan to ensure its an easy decision for Knapper to employ his own man in the close season....

[The Bunny 310]

Well this thread aged well...

[Soldier on 160]

You’d imagine knapper must be a little irked at the lack of minutes Wagner has given SVH?  May as well have kept idah at least Wagner was willing to use him !!!

needed a win yesterday and he still ignored SVH 

[Capt. Pants 4,263]

3 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yes, this looks like a bizarre decision in terms of this season. I guess it might make sense on a more long-term basis, to send Idah away from the negativity he's received here and give him a chance to build some confidence, while also taking a look at SvH. But in terms of our play-off push, all we've done is swap a decent option from the bench for a player who Wagner doesn't want to use.

It's a Sporting Director's decision, not a Head Coach's one...

Quite, and I do think Wagner is making a bit if a point here. 

If SVH's absence was due purely to fitness then he would have been getting minutes on the pitch. It seems more than that and Wagner doesn't rate him and has been using every permutation possible rather than bring him on.

 

[repman 635]

11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

How is it, in any way, shape or form, more obvious that Wagner is "being awkward". He wouldn't have come on at all so far if that were the case.

I would suggest it is pretty utter desperation on your side to find a way to make it all Wagners fault here in all honesty.

It's pretty apparent that there's a disconnect in the way Knapper and Wagner see things. I just have a hard time believing that SvH is so unfit he couldn't have come on in games such as yesterday and QPR, where what we needed was a goal. 

Does it seem out of the realm of possibility that Wagner is making a point that he wasn't happy with the business? It's a classic move by managers to make clear their displeasure.

[Indy 3,307]

27 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Pretty clear I wasn’t talking about supporters. I said he’s been given plenty of chances ie by several managers…you know, on the pitch where it matters.

I never mentioned time on pitch but he’s scored enough this year to warrant a start, the strange thing is we have this notion because Barnes played he’s at 10 when in reality most of the time he’s higher up the pitch than Sargent as Sargent tracks back, so I’d say he’s not a 10 but a forward. So why hasn’t there been more games where both Sargent & Idah started up top? 
I’ve been very pro Idah, we need players who are contributing with goals now we are missing Rowe! Like I said I don’t rate Barnes, think we’ve changed our game just to get him in and it’s sad!

[hogesar 9,709]

8 minutes ago, repman said:

It's pretty apparent that there's a disconnect in the way Knapper and Wagner see things. I just have a hard time believing that SvH is so unfit he couldn't have come on in games such as yesterday and QPR, where what we needed was a goal. 

Does it seem out of the realm of possibility that Wagner is making a point that he wasn't happy with the business? It's a classic move by managers to make clear their displeasure.

Well it might be that Wagner doesn't rate him but that's a bit more than making a point. 

I mean if I was Wagner I'd also be unhappy with the business, so that's a fair shout.

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

I, for one, wouldn't want old Doodah back at City. The whole thing became a pantomime in the end.  He must have outperformed even Todd Cantwell for column inches on this forum for one.

It all involved far too many extreme views both ways, but mostly by the ant-brigade. I was in the latter ijn the end, but hopefully without being OTT. I often stated that I thought he would 'season' into a top Championship performer at around 28.

The spotlight meant his confidence must have been shot to the extent he probably needed a tranquilliser to even step on the Carrow Road turf. He did have some good moments, but they seem to have counted for nothing, either related to the confidence factor or the criticism.

He's best served in pastures new and if he does excel at Celtic, and we get a good price for him, then all parties should be pleased that that particular long-running saga has come to a satisfactory end.

It's far too early to assess Van Donk, imo. He has hardly figured. 

 

Edited February 25 by BroadstairsR

[lake district canary 4,540]

"It's Motherwell" says it all. Great for Idah and good for his confidence if he does well - and Celtic are a high profile club  too - but it is Motherwell.....

Edited February 25 by lake district canary

[hogesar 9,709]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

"It's Motherwell" says it all. Great for Idah and good for his confidence if he does well - and Celtic are a high profile club  too - but it is Motherwell.....

But when similar arguments were levelled against the quality of opposition RvW scored against, you didn't seem so keen to play by the same rules?

[canarybubbles 1,924]

53 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I guess as a Norwich fan I see a significant difference between defending a manager of the club vs a desperate attempt to slate a youth academy product.

If you don't then that's fine, it takes all sort of "fans"

Those quotation marks speak volumes, Hogesar. They say that you have the right to decide who is a "fan" and who isn't. Many of the people on here have supported this club longer than you have been alive. But if they don't agree with you, they become "fans" in quotation marks.

It's not a good look.

This is my last word on the subject - I have no desire to spend the day arguing with you. All I am suggesting is that a little humility would not go amiss.

Edited February 25 by canarybubbles

[hogesar 9,709]

8 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Those quotation marks speak volumes, Hogesar. They say that you have the right to decide who is a "fan" and who isn't. Many of the people on here have supported this club longer than you have been alive. But if they don't agree with you, they become "fans" in quotation marks.

It's not a good look.

This is my last word on the subject - I have no desire to spend the day arguing with you. All I am suggesting is that a little humility would not go amiss.

I dont have the right to decide but I 100% have the right to an opinion on what I think constitutes the definition of a fan. And simply being old isn't one of them, for the record.

And it certainly has nothing to do with having to agree with me.

It has a lot to do with trying to put down a youth academy player at any opportunity though. 

That you still can't see that difference is concerning but ultimately not massively surprising.

Edited February 25 by hogesar

[......and Smith must score. 1,349]

9 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Those quotation marks speak volumes, Hogesar. They say that you have the right to decide who is a "fan" and who isn't. Many of the people on here have supported this club longer than you have been alive. But if they don't agree with you, they become "fans" in quotation marks.

It's not a good look.

This is my last word on the subject - I have no desire to spend the day arguing with you. All I am suggesting is that a little humility would not go amiss.

Agree with this. 

There is a tendency for younger supporters to have disdain for those of more senior years. It’s probably just a generational thing so we have to live with it I guess.

Edited February 25 by ......and Smith must score.

[Indy 3,307]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I dont need to. Ask Josh himself. But Barnes has directly assisted 3 of Sargents goals and been involved in 5 more. So 80% of Sargents goals.

So just three then! My point! Idah scored 6 for us and assisted in at least one direct. To try and claim involved in that’s every player on the pitch then!

Given it’s a managers decision he’s going with the old journeyman so fair play to him, but it’s probably Adam’s who sorted out Idah loan and strange that no sell on clause was set of Idah wanted out of the club, I think it’s possible that it was best interest for the club and player to get a loan move and come back under the new coach if the change happens! 

Edited February 25 by Indy

[hogesar 9,709]

3 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Agree with this. 

There is a tendency for younger supporters to have disdain for those of more senior years. It’s probably just a generational thing so we have to live with it I guess.

No one has a problem with older fans, again if anyone bothered to read the context my argument was that a poster who was determined to start a thread as soon as an opportunity to slate a youth academy product appeared might not be the best definition of a fan.

Who thought that would be so controversial. Then again perhaps it should have been obvious..