Canario 219 Posted February 26 On 25/02/2024 at 07:20, hogesar said: Good job I didn't do that then, happy to quote myself I guess. The overall point I was making is that these threads always pop up when we don't win a game against Kenny, I'm sure you know that much as a poster. Yet the weaknesses being discussed were weaknesses of Nunez too, in this case moreso: Yesterday, Nunez pass success % was lower than Kennys and they both lost possession the same amount of times. The difference is McLean actually played more progressive passes, won the ball back 2.5x as much as Nunez hence the higher rating despite the amount of value put towards goals. I really wonder how much of these stats a scout/coach bother with. They can be made to fit any argument. For example, say Nuñez gave the ball away a lot as Kenny wasn't showing for him? Or he took a hospital pass from Kenny and just had to try and get rid of it. Vice versa of course - not an attack on Kenny but its a team game. If the player in possession has no options, then it is poor coaching, off the ball movement and teamwork at fault rather than the man in possession. If you watch one of the really top sides, there are always 2/3 options on. Take our Billy for example. Can have great passing stats in a side where he knocks x100 5yard passes per game to keep possession ticking over. Put him under pressure with no options open and you get the Norwich version. We often have to play back into trouble or hoof as an option. Not helped of course by constantly tinkering with the side. No great surprise we look better after a partnership has been established for a few games. Be that Kenny and Sara, Nuñez and Sara, Sargent and Barnes etc For me Wagner overcomplicates what is a simple game. We know (or should know by now) who our best xi is. Barring injuries that side should get a decent run together. Also means those coming off the bench are busting a gut to get the shirt. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thirsty Lizard 3,184 Posted February 26 This thread is a great example of how some posters on here take a viewpoint on something - in this case whether Kenny is better playing in central midfield or central defense - and then grimly argue that viewpoint to death irrespective of the evidence. It's obvious to many people that at Championship level Kenny is a very good player in both central midfield and central defence. Good! We're lucky to have him! 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C.I.D 310 Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said: This thread is a great example of how some posters on here take a viewpoint on something - in this case whether Kenny is better playing in central midfield or central defense - and then grimly argue that viewpoint to death irrespective of the evidence. It's obvious to many people that at Championship level Kenny is a very good player in both central midfield and central defence. Good! We're lucky to have him! ...........and who'd have thunk it that Kenny would look so proficient as a CB ? Well........the bloke who some claim hasn't got a bloody clue did.............just saying 🤫 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mason 47 1,420 Posted February 26 13 minutes ago, C.I.D said: ...........and who'd have thunk it that Kenny would look so proficient as a CB ? Well........the bloke who some claim hasn't got a bloody clue did.............just saying 🤫 This can cut both ways, as I've thought Kenny had a future as a centre back for a long while and I definitely don't have a bloody clue. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonnyace1 27 Posted February 26 Kenny has played great at CB and I would put him there each week. The difference is that I would not play him in midfield. Either Sara/Nunez or if Nunez is out then I would have Sara/Sorensen instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C.I.D 310 Posted February 26 20 minutes ago, Mason 47 said: This can cut both ways, as I've thought Kenny had a future as a centre back for a long while and I definitely don't have a bloody clue. ...........more of a clue than many on here though 😁 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,989 Posted February 26 On 25/02/2024 at 11:34, Rich T The Biscuit said: Because of the way in which we now play and everything going through him, him dropping so deep every time is a problem for us, we lose shape, we become exposed and we sit far deeper than we need to. Errant nonsense, that is deliberate tactics and has been working exceptionally well. It draws opponents into the press and opens up space for Sara. When it works our shape is perfect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rich T The Biscuit 568 Posted February 26 35 minutes ago, BigFish said: Errant nonsense, that is deliberate tactics and has been working exceptionally well. It draws opponents into the press and opens up space for Sara. When it works our shape is perfect. Errant nonsense, get you with the big words. Guess we all see things differently but having a midfield player in between the CB's in unnecessary and causes us problems and didn't work so well on Saturday did it. Wagner wants him on the ball and it's so obvious and makes our game style easy to counter against, playing in the hole in front of the back 4 does add value but he can't do that as his speed of play isn't good enough for tight spaces. He likes time and space to try and influence the game and that's not errant nonsense, more actual fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,817 Posted February 26 1 hour ago, Rich T The Biscuit said: Errant nonsense, get you with the big words. Guess we all see things differently but having a midfield player in between the CB's in unnecessary and causes us problems and didn't work so well on Saturday did it. Wagner wants him on the ball and it's so obvious and makes our game style easy to counter against, playing in the hole in front of the back 4 does add value but he can't do that as his speed of play isn't good enough for tight spaces. He likes time and space to try and influence the game and that's not errant nonsense, more actual fact. Although he's one of only 2 in him and Sara who is capable of holding the ball and driving with it out of a press and shielding it well enough, which is part of why people like him in at CB so I'm not sure your point stacks up. He's conversely the only midfielder we have who seems to regularly be able to drive into midfield space and play defence-splitting balls for Sargent, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rich T The Biscuit 568 Posted February 26 54 minutes ago, hogesar said: He's conversely the only midfielder we have who seems to regularly be able to drive into midfield space and play defence-splitting balls for Sargent, too. Agree, and he's not able to do that kind of stuff on the edge of our 18 yard box sitting between our CB's, which is the point I was making about him being too deep. It's playing in the hole in front of the CB's where he is most effective when he's playing in midfield rather than CB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,227 Posted February 27 (edited) Kenny's irreplaceable at this moment in time and seems to perform well in whatever role is asked of him, even full-back. His conversion to centre-back was questioned on this forum to the point of ridicule as an example of Wagnerism at its best/worst. It worked well, though, and has worked well since its initial conception. It surely added something to the midfield. Most were surprised then when the manager reverted to norm. He is, however, a midfielder of some worth at the Championship level, so the decision either way needs leaving to Wagner, as perilous as that might seem at times. We do have a decent array of purpose built centre-backs, after all. (I actually think that the much-maligned Duffy was missed on Saturday, his head is so often a ball magnet.) Edited February 27 by BroadstairsR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,705 Posted February 27 Without meaning to be overly simplistic it is interesting to see Kenny has started 9 games in central defence with a record of won 5, drawn 3, lost 1, so a total of 18 points. In the last 9 games he's started in central midfield we've won 3, draw 2, lost 4, so 11 points from those 9. I know there are a myriad of other factors to be considered but it does suggest the team as a whole is more balanced and performs better with him in central defence and not in midfield. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,705 Posted February 27 5 hours ago, BroadstairsR said: (I actually think that the much-maligned Duffy was missed on Saturday, his head is so often a ball magnet.) At this point Duffy is the better option for the more 'agricultural' central defender than Hanley. When fit it should be him next to either Gibson or McLean. Personally I'd go McLean. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted February 27 He's done a good job as a Centrehalf why change him ????? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
