The threat to our democracy

[cambridgeshire canary 6,731]

40 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

So there we have it.  A thread that was started to discuss the threat to democracy being caused by the disgusting intimidation of our MPs by extremist political and religious activists has, ironically, been used by some of our more left-wing contributors as an excuse to vent their hate for Badenoch and Braverman rather than acknowledging the clear and increasing danger from Islamism.  

Remember when Labour tried out the "kinder gentler politics" line?

 

Funny in hindsight

Edited February 22 by cambridgeshire canary

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Defending a Home Secretary who was so out of her depth and even heavily criticised by some within her own party - and who managed the "feat" of getting sacked twice from the same position within thirteen months - is certainly an interesting perspective. If you want a threat to democracy, I'd say that level of incompetence right there is the biggest one of the lot.

That level of incompetence corrodes faith in democracy far quicker than anything from outside.

 

[Herman 9,777]

11 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Frankly your response is disgusting.  You’re happy to appease those that threaten our democracy whilst heaping opprobrium on MPs who have the balls to speak out.

 

8 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

When you say calm things down, are you suggesting appeasement?

When I say calm things down I mean calm things down, not deliberately stir things up. That's really not that hard to understand, even for you guys. Jeepers.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

6 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I have been listening to LBC and a programme being hosted by Sheila Foggarty. She has quoted the Speaker who says that our MP's are under threat from extremists who are threatening their lives. 

I phoned in to ask who these people are. The research assistant said that Sheila couldn't take my call because it would threaten her safety. 

Who are these people and why are we allowing this to happen? 

What the **** are you doing with your life to have time to call into radio programmes? ****ing unbelievable. 

[Fen Canary 828]

6 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

When I say calm things down I mean calm things down, not deliberately stir things up. That's really not that hard to understand, even for you guys. Jeepers.

So how do you clam things down? If MPs are being physically threatened and intimidated by a certain group how do you calm tensions and prevent it happening? Do you criticise the behaviour? Keep silent and hope it goes away? 

[Herman 9,777]

9 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

So how do you clam things down? If MPs are being physically threatened and intimidated by a certain group how do you calm tensions and prevent it happening? Do you criticise the behaviour? Keep silent and hope it goes away? 

Oh for goodness sakes, stop playing dumb. I'm talking about Badenoch and Braverman and their rhetoric they use. It doesn't help when tensions are high and you have two high profile politicians using language to divide even more.

 

[king canary 7,609]

Wilful blindness on all sides here.

Yes it is obvious the current hostilities are driven by some of the more crazed pro palestine crowd who are often Muslim's.

However threats and intimidation of MP's has been a growing problem for years, long before the Middle Eastern crisis was permanently on the front pages. In 2019 a Neo-Nazi was jailed for plotting to murder Rosie Cooper. Many MP's reported an increase in threats during the brexit process. This guy was jailed for sending threats to multiple MP's who were seen as hostile to Brexit. This one jailed for multiple death threats. Back in 2019 the Guardian was writing on the sharp increase in abuse and threats to MP's. It's no coincidence that in our current political environment a huge number of MP's are deciding against standing for re-election. 

To make out like this is a problem solely driven by Muslims is just as one-eyed as acting like Islam has nothing to do with it right now.

[Fen Canary 828]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

Oh for goodness sakes, stop playing dumb. I'm talking about Badenoch and Braverman and their rhetoric they use. It doesn't help when tensions are high and you have two high profile politicians using language to divide even more.

 

I don’t believe I’ve ever heard either of them criticise Islam as a religion. Even if they did, we live in a country where you should have the right to criticise religions without its adherents responding with threats of violence and intimidation.

Ive been insulted and labelled ignorant, stupid, racist etc many times on this board due to being in favour of leaving the EU, therefore would I be justified in physically threatening those that do so if I met them in the street? 

[Herman 9,777]

7 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I don’t believe I’ve ever heard either of them criticise Islam as a religion. Even if they did, we live in a country where you should have the right to criticise religions without its adherents responding with threats of violence and intimidation.

Ive been insulted and labelled ignorant, stupid, racist etc many times on this board due to being in favour of leaving the EU, therefore would I be justified in physically threatening those that do so if I met them in the street? 

I haven't mentioned Islam once in regards to Braverman and Badenoch.

[Fen Canary 828]

Just now, Herman said:

I haven't mentioned Islam once in regards to Braverman and Badenoch.

The thread is about MPs being threatened by Islamists

[Herman 9,777]

8 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

The thread is about MPs being threatened by Islamists

Well no, it's really about extremists of all colours, groups,hierarchies and political beliefs. Yes some are Islamic, some are taking their pro-Palestinian position too far. It's just too simplistic to dump the problem on Islamists. Nuance is allowed.

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

A few months ago it was reported on here by somebody that Abbott and Khan received the most abuse/intimidation.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

This is a former Muslim explaining a few home truths that some on here would do well to listen

 

[Fen Canary 828]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

Well no, it's really about extremists of all colours, groups,hierarchies and political beliefs. Yes some are Islamic, some are taking their pro-Palestinian position too far. It's just too simplistic to dump the problem on Islamists. Nuance is allowed.

You’re right. All those militant Buddhists and Sikhs really need to be stopped!

We all know the bulk of terrorism in the UK today is Islamist in nature, yet for some reason people such as yourself can’t bring yourself to say it. The incident the thread was talking about was again clearly Islamist, but you seem to believe that if we just don’t mention it then it will disappear all on its own. Why is that? I’d wager you’d have no problem calling out the racist scumbag that murdered Jo Cox as right wing terrorism, so why can’t you do the same for the Islamic kind? 

[Herman 9,777]

5 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

You’re right. All those militant Buddhists and Sikhs really need to be stopped!

We all know the bulk of terrorism in the UK today is Islamist in nature, yet for some reason people such as yourself can’t bring yourself to say it. The incident the thread was talking about was again clearly Islamist, but you seem to believe that if we just don’t mention it then it will disappear all on its own. Why is that? I’d wager you’d have no problem calling out the racist scumbag that murdered Jo Cox as right wing terrorism, so why can’t you do the same for the Islamic kind? 

I just said some of it is Islamic but unlike you I try not to think in such simplistic ways and blame all the problems on one single group.

[dylanisabaddog 4,931]

9 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

What the **** are you doing with your life to have time to call into radio programmes? ****ing unbelievable. 

Says the person posting on a political thread on a football forum. Oh, the irony😂

[Naturalcynic 631]

9 minutes ago, Herman said:

I just said some of it is Islamic but unlike you I try not to think in such simplistic ways and blame all the problems on one single group.

If you and others like you weren’t desperately looking everywhere else for others to blame, you might actually see the enormous elephant in the room, 

[dylanisabaddog 4,931]

9 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

The thread is about MPs being threatened by Islamists

That may be the case but we don't know. I'm told that many MP's were fearful of leaving Parliament yesterday because of the intimidating nature of a protest outside. 

I think it's time for people on all sides to accept the dangers that exist from extremists. Perhaps we should remember that Jo Cox wasn't killed by a Muslim and also remember that far right nut jobs were involved in an organised attempt to disrupt a protest. 

I don't know who the people making these threats are but it needs to be stopped. We want the best people possible representing us in Parliament and that won't happen if they think they might die. 

In case anyone thinks this post is in support of one side or other, it's not. I have equal contempt for anyone who is stupid enough to worship a God, especially the ones who are prepared to kill for that belief. Why we allow these ridiculous people to have any say in the running of this country is beyond me. 

 

Edited February 23 by dylanisabaddog

[Herman 9,777]

4 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

If you and others like you weren’t desperately looking everywhere else for others to blame, you might actually see the enormous elephant in the room, 

All because I dared criticise two of the worst British politicians. Listen Tommy, there are many people to blame for our current problems, including, but not exclusively, some Muslims and left-wing extremists. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

40 minutes ago, Herman said:

All because I dared criticise two of the worst British politicians. Listen Tommy, there are many people to blame for our current problems, including, but not exclusively, some Muslims and left-wing extremists. 

Jesus; you just can't help yourself can you?

Edited February 23 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,777]

14 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Jesus; you just can't help yourself can you?

I can and don't call me Jesus. 

[MooreMarriot 310]

10 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

The thread is about MPs being threatened by Islamists

Most threats to MPs are directed at women and those from an ethnic minority , and it has been going on for years. Diane Abbott receives the most threats , Anna Soubry needed police protection for voting against Brexit , Sadiq Khan has to have 24hr police protection. As none of this threatening behaviour emanated from " Islamists " it probably passed you by.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/diane-abbott-abusive-tweets-female-mps-amnesty_uk_59ae6b83e4b0354e440c36c1

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6207741/County-councillor-72-called-Diane-Abbott-monkey-charged-communications-offences.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49211222

[dylanisabaddog 4,931]

Phone in on Radio 5 now. Is our democracy under threat from extremists? 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

49 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

Most threats to MPs are directed at women and those from an ethnic minority , and it has been going on for years. Diane Abbott receives the most threats , Anna Soubry needed police protection for voting against Brexit , Sadiq Khan has to have 24hr police protection. As none of this threatening behaviour emanated from " Islamists " it probably passed you by.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/diane-abbott-abusive-tweets-female-mps-amnesty_uk_59ae6b83e4b0354e440c36c1

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6207741/County-councillor-72-called-Diane-Abbott-monkey-charged-communications-offences.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49211222

You ignore all the threats from Labour MPs, mostly anti-semitic in nature.  Ďidnt Dianne Abbott once claim that black people couldn't be racist, the ĺeft-wing grifter?

Conveniently forgetting David Amess too. 

[horsefly 4,301]

12 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I don’t believe I’ve ever heard either of them criticise Islam as a religion. Even if they did, we live in a country where you should have the right to criticise religions without its adherents responding with threats of violence and intimidation.

Ive been insulted and labelled ignorant, stupid, racist etc many times on this board due to being in favour of leaving the EU, therefore would I be justified in physically threatening those that do so if I met them in the street? 

That lasted well: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suella-braverman-islamists-are-in-charge-of-britain-now/ar-BB1iJ9PT

Suella Braverman: Islamists are in charge of Britain now

And before that: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/13/suella-braverman-islamophobia-britain-muslim-home-secretary

And before that: https://news.sky.com/story/muslim-groups-urge-suella-braverman-to-withdraw-irresponsible-and-divisive-grooming-gang-comments-12854820

etc, etc, etc

 

Edited February 23 by horsefly

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

13 hours ago, Herman said:

There are threats coming from all over the place and our politicians should be doing all they can to calm things down not fan the flames. That's why those two are getting overly and rightly criticised.

They represent a viewpoint. A perfectly legitimate viewpoint regarding the inability to determine who may and may not come in.

Has it ever occurred to you that the ability of people to abuse asylum processes might be a source of resentment for those who apply through official processes, and have a harder time of it because of the resentment of those who take the michael? It should have done, because they do resent it, which shouldn't come as much of a surprise given the two targets of your hatred are from ethnic minority families who arrived through legal immigration.

The people who really fan the flames are those determined to just brush it under the carpet and allow it to fester and become population level resentment that finishes up spilling over into racial hatred, simply because it doesn't support their deranged ideological stance that anyone should be able to live absolutely anywhere .

Edited February 23 by littleyellowbirdie

[MooreMarriot 310]

5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

You ignore all the threats from Labour MPs, mostly anti-semitic in nature.  Ďidnt Dianne Abbott once claim that black people couldn't be racist, the ĺeft-wing grifter?

Conveniently forgetting David Amess too. 

No surprise to learn you couldn't care less about the abuse directed at Abbott , the next time you adopt your favoured high moral tone someone will remind you of that hopefully. Unlike yourself , I disapprove of all threats and abuse directed at MPs  . Whatever the politics of the perpetrators .

Edited February 23 by MooreMarriot

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

2 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

No surprise to learn you couldn't care less the abuse directed at Abbott , the next time you adopt your favoured high moral tone someone will remind you of that hopefully. Unlike yourself , I disapprove of all threats and abuse directed at MPs  . Whatever the politics of the perpetrators .

I think Abbott could be accused of spouting divisive rhetoric herself with her history of broad brush statements about white people.

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

1 hour ago, MooreMarriot said:

Most threats to MPs are directed at women and those from an ethnic minority , and it has been going on for years. Diane Abbott receives the most threats , Anna Soubry needed police protection for voting against Brexit , Sadiq Khan has to have 24hr police protection. As none of this threatening behaviour emanated from " Islamists " it probably passed you by.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/diane-abbott-abusive-tweets-female-mps-amnesty_uk_59ae6b83e4b0354e440c36c1

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6207741/County-councillor-72-called-Diane-Abbott-monkey-charged-communications-offences.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49211222

Yes - Some can't see the wood for the trees or simply have other agendas.

Abuse, intimidation of public officials and representatives has been getting worse for years from all quarters - largely fueled it seems by intellectually challenged people in social (media) echo chambers (religious or political) that somehow come to believe they are 'entitled' to act in such ways. You only have to think back to the examples you give or indeed the 'enemies of the people' badge of forever shame worn by some of our papers directed at our judges just doing their job. Take a look over the pond and wonder where we are heading and the causes of the Jan 6th 'riots/insurrection'. The 'mob'. How did they come to believe what they were doing was right?  It's not just one group. Today it may be issues in the ME and one set of thickos but tomorrow it will be something else that fuels another set equally challenged. 

It needs sorting out that's for sure but it is dishonest to paint it as problem with just one particular group.

Edited February 23 by Yellow Fever

[horsefly 4,301]

15 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

The thread is about MPs being threatened by Islamists

The thread is titled "The Threat to our Democracy". That includes anything which constitutes such a threat, including extremists from the right and left, from Muslim fundamentalists to white supremacists. It also includes politicians like Braverman who not only uses vile and purposely divisive language to foment extremist behaviour, but as Home Secretary introduced the most restrictive legislation to supress freedom of speech and protest in my lifetime.

Edited February 23 by horsefly