Webber still in control of the club?

[Sufyellow 246]

59 minutes ago, hogesar said:

MA hasn't really bailed us out he's just changed debt from being owed externally to being owed to him.

And that's not out of love for Norwich City. Its for MAs benefit. Which is fine, I'm totally on board with that. But there's a significant difference between DS and MWJ contributing half their entire wealth with absolutely zero certainty of getting that back at the time vs MA helping out with 1% of his with guarantees of getting it back. 👍

Didn't he say the loans are interest free? 

[Sufyellow 246]

45 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

But again, he hasn’t gifted that money to the club. All he’s done is bought the debt off the bank, the club simply owes him now rather than whoever they did before. This puts him in a powerful negotiating position and also means the club he de facto owns isn’t paying interest on debts when it doesn’t need to which saves him money. He’s never going to write any of these debts off, he’ll want repaying in full and more on top

Where would we be if he didn't take those debts over? Wasn't it about 7 million in interest or something,  we would be totally on the brink next season if he hadn't stepped in . 

[Fen Canary 899]

44 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

Where would we be if he didn't take those debts over? Wasn't it about 7 million in interest or something,  we would be totally on the brink next season if he hadn't stepped in . 

£7 million interest on a £30 million loan? Who did we loan it from, Wonga? 

[Fen Canary 899]

53 minutes ago, Sufyellow said:

Didn't he say the loans are interest free? 

The point is they’re still loans, he hasn’t gifted the club a penny

[nutty nigel 7,676]

There's some more about the investment here...

Go to 23:37.

Or just whinge about no comoonikation and 20%...

Let love shine a light

[Indy 3,352]

2 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

But again, he hasn’t gifted that money to the club. All he’s done is bought the debt off the bank, the club simply owes him now rather than whoever they did before. This puts him in a powerful negotiating position and also means the club he de facto owns isn’t paying interest on debts when it doesn’t need to which saves him money. He’s never going to write any of these debts off, he’ll want repaying in full and more on top

No one has said he’s gifted anything, no one really knows his motives and what he could gain in the future, he might lose the lot if the club carries on the way it is!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

15 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

There's some more about the investment here...

Go to 23:37.

Or just whinge about no comoonikation and 20%...

Let love shine a light

Hats off, Nutty. This interview contains straight answers to literally every bit of conspiracy-minded speculation about Webber's involvement since his departure.

Looks like it's less that the club has a communication problem and more that a lot of fans have a listening problem...

[Midlands Yellow 4,122]

9 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Hats off, Nutty. This interview contains straight answers to literally every bit of conspiracy-minded speculation about Webber's involvement since his departure.

Looks like it's less that the club has a communication problem and more that a lot of fans have a listening problem...

This interview was a cringe fest other than when MA answered questions. 

[Soldier on 172]

8 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

This interview was a cringe fest other than when MA answered questions. 

He looked embarrassed at times having to listen 

[Jim Smith 2,365]

10 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Hats off, Nutty. This interview contains straight answers to literally every bit of conspiracy-minded speculation about Webber's involvement since his departure.

Looks like it's less that the club has a communication problem and more that a lot of fans have a listening problem...

The communication that fans want is over Knapper and what he’s doing about our inept coach. 

[canarybubbles 1,967]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Hats off, Nutty. This interview contains straight answers to literally every bit of conspiracy-minded speculation about Webber's involvement since his departure.

Looks like it's less that the club has a communication problem and more that a lot of fans have a listening problem...

Any chance to attack the fans, eh? I think people like you and me, who don't live in the UK and therefore never get to games, should hold back from attacking people who do go to games, often travelling a long distance and at great expense if it's an away game, often in miserable, cold weather, and for the last two and a half seasons generally paying to watch dross.

And then, to cap it all, getting insulted by Webber and Delia Smith.

Edited January 11 by canarybubbles

[shefcanary 2,504]

14 hours ago, Sufyellow said:

Didn't he say the loans are interest free? 

I'm not sure whether he was referring to all the loans he has provided. Let me explain further.

This could include the £10m preference shares which carry 7% interest (£700K p.a. or potentially £7m if the shares are held for 10 years). When they were issued it was on a 7 year term to tie Attanasio in to develop his relationship with the club. Given subsequent events, the exact status of the length of his holding these shares is heavily tied with his future plans once the EFL assent is given. From my review of last years accounts the club "paid" out on these shares. I can only assume he will continue to receive this in future.

As it stands his statement applies to the facility he provided in January 2023 on signing the concord with Delia and Michael. That will total about £27m once the EFL assent on the issue of the new shares is given, unless he has provided further funding in the interim. Certainly the last financial accounts did not mention any interest rates attached to those loans. I criticised the lack of a clear statement over whether interest was payable or not, but in hindsight suggests they may be interest free. The disclosure over the precise term of the loans is required under normal Accounting convention, the lack of any discussion whatsoever was a major shortcoming in my view. What happens in the future I've no idea.

[essex canary 516]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

I'm not sure whether he was referring to all the loans he has provided. Let me explain further.

This could include the £10m preference shares which carry 7% interest (£700K p.a. or potentially £7m if the shares are held for 10 years). When they were issued it was on a 7 year term to tie Attanasio in to develop his relationship with the club. Given subsequent events, the exact status of the length of his holding these shares is heavily tied with his future plans once the EFL assent is given. From my review of last years accounts the club "paid" out on these shares. I can only assume he will continue to receive this in future.

As it stands his statement applies to the facility he provided in January 2023 on signing the concord with Delia and Michael. That will total about £27m once the EFL assent on the issue of the new shares is given, unless he has provided further funding in the interim. Certainly the last financial accounts did not mention any interest rates attached to those loans. I criticised the lack of a clear statement over whether interest was payable or not, but in hindsight suggests they may be interest free. The disclosure over the precise term of the loans is required under normal Accounting convention, the lack of any discussion whatsoever was a major shortcoming in my view. What happens in the future I've no idea.

By 'interest free' are you implying no 'Interest Payable' in accrual accounting terms albeit accept it is only your conjecture?

Could I challenge your analysis of last years accounts on the issue of Interest on C Preference Shares? To my mind the entry on Page 66 classifies it as 'Payable' whilst the entry on Page 71 suggests it has been deferred rather than 'Paid'. Therefore it seems to roll up year-on-year. A little Corporate Governance applied to Shef.

Edited January 11 by essex canary

[essex canary 516]

17 hours ago, hogesar said:

MA hasn't really bailed us out he's just changed debt from being owed externally to being owed to him.

And that's not out of love for Norwich City. Its for MAs benefit. Which is fine, I'm totally on board with that. But there's a significant difference between DS and MWJ contributing half their entire wealth with absolutely zero certainty of getting that back at the time vs MA helping out with 1% of his with guarantees of getting it back. 👍

The half their wealth wasn't enough though which is why they needed minority shareholders such as ourselves. For their relatively modest investment they still enjoy all the same benefits as many other Club owners who have put in much more. I of course do benefit. Others such as yourself and some who own as many as me but didn't even agree to their T&C's in the first place don't. The Scroungers!

[shefcanary 2,504]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

By 'interest free' are you implying no 'Interest Payable' in accrual accounting terms albeit accept it is only your conjecture?

Could I challenge your analysis of last years accounts on the issue of Interest on C Preference Shares? To my mind the entry on Page 66 classifies it as 'Payable' whilst the entry on Page 71 suggests it has been deferred rather than 'Paid'. Therefore it seems to roll up year-on-year. A little Corporate Governance applied to Shef.

As I said, the disclosures in the accounts are not as complete as accounting convention would recommend, hence why even I after scrutiny struggle to completely decipher what is paid and what is accrued, indeed who has been paid and who still is owed. How the auditor got away with it I'm still scratching my head. Not sure you can blame that on the Board though. 

[Soldier on 172]

Shef how much longer would you envisage EFL make us wait to ratify this share acquisition ? Feels like everything at the club is on hold. Had hoped to hear more of who the next director added to the board would be by now.

[PurpleCanary 5,606]

18 hours ago, Soldier on said:

Shef how much longer would you envisage EFL make us wait to ratify this share acquisition ? Feels like everything at the club is on hold. Had hoped to hear more of who the next director added to the board would be by now.

It may not be the EFL that is holding up the proocess. I have no idea. The EFL's owners' test is certainly more rigorous than its directors' test. But as someone said to me recently, the latter has in the past amounted to the candidate simply being asked "Are you a crook?"

As to the question of a second director, I assumed Attanasio would be keen  to have someone in place quickly, but the view of one of the EDP journalists recently was that he didn't seem to regard it as an immediate priority. Which surprised me. If it was me I would want an extra pair of eyes on the club as soon as possible.

Edited January 12 by PurpleCanary

[essex canary 516]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

As I said, the disclosures in the accounts are not as complete as accounting convention would recommend, hence why even I after scrutiny struggle to completely decipher what is paid and what is accrued, indeed who has been paid and who still is owed. How the auditor got away with it I'm still scratching my head. Not sure you can blame that on the Board though. 

Related Party disclosures. Assuming we get yet another AGM this year, perhaps make that the official agenda question if no clearer. Just ask Richens what deliberations they had with the auditor on the matter.  

[shefcanary 2,504]

59 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Shef how much longer would you envisage EFL make us wait to ratify this share acquisition ? Feels like everything at the club is on hold. Had hoped to hear more of who the next director added to the board would be by now.

Purps has responded above as I would really (honestly the only relationship with him I have is discourse on here 😉  ).

To add though. There are a few other calls on their time investigating other club's potential new Director's & Owner's; ostensibly ours is not as urgent as some other clubs, who could go to the wall. The club could pressurise the EFL, using the stance that everything is on hold, but can't see them getting much change from that.

I wonder if we might see something like I experienced with the Charities Commission recently. A couple of the charities I am involved with had long standing queries with the CC, they responded separately to both with emails dated the same time and date. This showed a formal signing off of responses required before they were sent out en masse. It may be that the EFL Board have a similar sign off of communications on this, but given the urgency of some cases you would hope they could convene this at any time at short notice. 🤷‍♀️

Whatever the club publicly reported an expectation of less than two months for the EFL to review and report, they have now taken nearly twice that! 

[shefcanary 2,504]

32 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Related Party disclosures. Assuming we get yet another AGM this year, perhaps make that the official agenda question if no clearer. Just ask Richens what deliberations they had with the auditor on the matter.  

Yes, despite the proposed share allocation, I assume Attanasio, Norfolk et al at the point of sign off of the accounts had not assumed the position of a Related Party. For the next set of accounts, if EFL give their assent, you would expect the note here relating to Attanasio will be quite a long read.