Defence

[Yellow Green Army 237]

So 22 goals conceded in 12 games. Just about averaging 2 per game in the Championship. That is an embarrassing statistic.

How can Wagner and his back room staff continue with the same tactics and defensive line up week in week out. The stats are there for all to see and it’s clearly not working.If he doesn’t make changes against Boro then his days are numbered. 
 

Personally I would stick with Giannoulis and Stacey as the full backs but the CB pairing needs an overhaul. Time for Batth to come in and I would also love to see Warner alongside him. 
 

I would go for something like this

Gunn

Stacey Warner Batth Giannoulis

Forshaw McClean

Nunez Sara Rowe

Idah

[canarybubbles 1,941]

I don't think it's as simple as just changing our CBs. It's the way the team is set up, with teams able to waltz through our midfield with very little to stop them. I agree with your inclusion of Forshaw, though, and moving Sara forward, but with strict instructions to Forshaw and McLean that one of them must stay back to cover at all times. 

[Channon’s Windmill 330]

6 hours ago, Yellow Green Army said:

So 22 goals conceded in 12 games. Just about averaging 2 per game in the Championship. That is an embarrassing statistic.

How can Wagner and his back room staff continue with the same tactics and defensive line up week in week out. The stats are there for all to see and it’s clearly not working.If he doesn’t make changes against Boro then his days are numbered. 
 

Personally I would stick with Giannoulis and Stacey as the full backs but the CB pairing needs an overhaul. Time for Batth to come in and I would also love to see Warner alongside him. 
 

I would go for something like this

Gunn

Stacey Warner Batth Giannoulis

Forshaw McClean

Nunez Sara Rowe

Idah

You have more chance of seeing Andy Hughes at CB than Warner. He will get a cameo in the 3rd round of the FA Cup and that will be it for the season under this clown.

[Pyro Pete 1,918]

Forshaw? You would play Forshaw?!

Take a look at the winning goal yesterday. Look who was supposed to be preventing any counterattack. And watch exactly what he does.

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,794]

11 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

I don't think it's as simple as just changing our CBs. It's the way the team is set up, with teams able to waltz through our midfield with very little to stop them. I agree with your inclusion of Forshaw, though, and moving Sara forward, but with strict instructions to Forshaw and McLean that one of them must stay back to cover at all times. 

Much as Batth needs to get a start I do fear that you're right. It doesn't seem to matter who's in defence, our defence has been god awful for about three seasons in a row if not more now.

Does not seem to matter who's in defence. I do wonder whats going on during training or if there's something psychological.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

I thought Forshaw was terrible when he came on. Can't run, can't pass, can't shoot, doesn't have the pace to press. 

I'd rather have Gibbs in there tbh.

Unfortunately if you want a more solid defence then the 2 fullbacks have to play as defenders not pseudo wingers.

 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

High press is doing us no favours full backs Press and get caught up field CB’s push up not fast enough ,

a good CDM would cut most of that out and cover 

teams have worked out we press high and allow it as it opens us up at back we do their job for them 

[Petriix 2,853]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with our defenders. The goals we're conceding all stem from frailties in midfield: both tactical and individual. 

The first Leeds goal came from Kenny leaving his man (number 24) to press the next player in the Leeds half leaving a clear run towards our box. A simple foul on the 24 stops the attack dead and isn't even a booking. The golden rule is that you don't let the man past you so you either run with him or into him.

The second Leeds goal was our midfield failing to close down the man on the edge of the box after the corner.

The third Leeds goal was an absolute brain-dead pass into an area where Leeds were 3 vs 1, compounded by our only covering midfielder running towards the ball when he should have been tracking the runner. The pass was ludicrous because we had three players around the ball and an overload on the left yet played it to the opposite side where we were outnumbered.

We're playing a system where we're regularly outnumbered in midfield. Without a proper CDM we lack the ability to deal with those situations: usually track the deepest runner, make a tactical foul or at least block the passing angle to prevent the most dangerous ball. For all their other strengths, Kenny and Sara simply don't have this defensive awareness; nor do any of our other players so let's not pretend that swapping someone else in would fix things.

The very simple solution is to reign in the attacking intent of our wide players to provide more cover or switch to a proper double pivot, especially once we're already winning. At 2-0 against one of the best teams in the league you need to make it much more difficult to get through our midfield.

[jaberry2 556]

57 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I thought Forshaw was terrible when he came on. Can't run, can't pass, can't shoot, doesn't have the pace to press. 

I'd rather have Gibbs in there tbh.

Unfortunately if you want a more solid defence then the 2 fullbacks have to play as defenders not pseudo wingers.

 

The thing is if you play Gibbs you play him in CM not as some striker / advanced option. 

[king canary 7,668]

It is, shockingly enough, not ok to play without a defensive midfielder.

It is also not ok to try and fill this gaping hole with a 32 year old freebie who's struggled for fitness in recent years.

So we're left with the option of either play no defensive midfielder or play a not very good one. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

As always, it’s not just the defence (although the CBs are too slow to play together in my view). The biggest issue is they are left completely exposed against pace due to our fullbacks bombing on and the never ending absence of a proper defensive midfielder. 

[hogesar 9,740]

22 minutes ago, king canary said:

It is, shockingly enough, not ok to play without a defensive midfielder.

It is also not ok to try and fill this gaping hole with a 32 year old freebie who's struggled for fitness in recent years.

So we're left with the option of either play no defensive midfielder or play a not very good one. 

That's still no excuse for the tactical set up, particularly when 2-0 up, to allow teams to completely outnumber us in midfield. It doesn't matter if Forshaw isn't that good at CDM, in this case we simply needed numbers to match for Farke basically putting 3 in centrally 2nd half. 

I agree with a lot of @Petriix post above but I hope he will acknowledge that those midfield mistakes in terms of Kenny press, closing down by someone else or the lack of it was always going to be a problem when Sara does not stick to a defensive position even when 2-0 up (instructed I'm sure) and on multiple occasions we were watching 3 midfielders pass around McLean. 

We arent good enough to be outnumbered in midfield week in week out and get away with it. Idah can't drop in as an extra body in the same effective way Barnes or even Sargent can. 

Gibbs pressed the CBs constantly yet Barnes when playing the same position spent most of the time in our own half. 

[king canary 7,668]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

That's still no excuse for the tactical set up, particularly when 2-0 up, to allow teams to completely outnumber us in midfield. It doesn't matter if Forshaw isn't that good at CDM, in this case we simply needed numbers to match for Farke basically putting 3 in centrally 2nd half. 

I agree with a lot of @Petriix post above but I hope he will acknowledge that those midfield mistakes in terms of Kenny press, closing down by someone else or the lack of it was always going to be a problem when Sara does not stick to a defensive position even when 2-0 up (instructed I'm sure) and on multiple occasions we were watching 3 midfielders pass around McLean. 

We arent good enough to be outnumbered in midfield week in week out and get away with it. Idah can't drop in as an extra body in the same effective way Barnes or even Sargent can. 

Gibbs pressed the CBs constantly yet Barnes when playing the same position spent most of the time in our own half. 

Yes I agree it wouldn't be fair to blame Kenny- he's being left exposed in a role he isn't a natural for. Wagner's system is leaving him exposed but if we're going to play this way we need to have a proper holding midfielder there.

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

There's no protection in front of the back 4, if only we'd signed a specialist CDM in the summer, you know the one I was told by those wiser posters than me that we didn't need one..... 😉