Does anyone, Anybody at all, actually support Dean Smith?

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

Yawn. Are you as dull and tedious in real life?

 

About as dull and tedious as your non committal views.

keep replying though, shows you care 

[Branston Pickle 3,688]

Just now, SwearyCanary said:

About as dull and tedious as your non committal views.

keep replying though, shows you care 

Does it, really?  No, just bored, believe me.

[chicken 2,642]

5 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

No, I supported the club. I never liked either particularly.

You are in no position to call me a liar.

In fairness, despite our success under Lambert and many people remembering the swashbuckling brand of football under him, it wouldn't take much forum dredging to find that a lot of people felt similar to you about him.

He certainly did not have the charm and charisma of Farke. And at times could be cold, grumpy and sharp in his responses to post match pressers. A common complaint on here was that he often rolled out more or less the exact same post match comments "can't fault my boys they gave me everything" come win, lose, draw etc and gave very little away.

As you say though, it's not the priority is it?

In comparison, some people have said that they would like Bielsa to replace Smith... I mean, he's not exactly a bundle of joy and happiness is he? Ancelotti has his moments but he's no Jurgen Klopp.

The most important thing has to be performances on the pitch. With the priority being about points and performances secondary to that in that of course we all want to see consistently good performances which are pleasing on the eye, but if that isn't possible, getting those points is a must. 

[Feedthewolf 4,872]

My view on Dean Smith hasn't changed; indifferent to his rather beige personality, getting very bored of his insipid football. I believe we need major surgery to be fit for the PL. I don't think Smith will take us up this season, and even if he did we'd be cannon fodder.

Sacking Smith now might result in an uptick in results, and possibly sneaking up to the PL as we did under Alex Neil in 2015. However, I've been thinking this over quite a lot today, and I could actually put up with Smith until the end of the season in the following scenario:

We 'do nothing' in January, as there's very little money anyway, and Smith has done nothing to suggest he'd improve any players we may purchase. We fast-track to the summer, when Webber is back from his Everest trip (and might have decided to move on anyway), the Attanasios have their feet under the table (and possibly more shares), and we go after a bold managerial appointment in the same vein as Kompany, and give him an entire summer (and an entire season) to implement his philosophy as we did with Farke.

With our existing academy and training facilities coupled with the potential future investment from Attanasio, I think we'd be quite an attractive proposition for an up-and-coming manager.

 

[Branston Pickle 3,688]

1 minute ago, chicken said:

In fairness, despite our success under Lambert and many people remembering the swashbuckling brand of football under him, it wouldn't take much forum dredging to find that a lot of people felt similar to you about him.

He certainly did not have the charm and charisma of Farke. And at times could be cold, grumpy and sharp in his responses to post match pressers. A common complaint on here was that he often rolled out more or less the exact same post match comments "can't fault my boys they gave me everything" come win, lose, draw etc and gave very little away.

As you say though, it's not the priority is it?

In comparison, some people have said that they would like Bielsa to replace Smith... I mean, he's not exactly a bundle of joy and happiness is he? Ancelotti has his moments but he's no Jurgen Klopp.

The most important thing has to be performances on the pitch. With the priority being about points and performances secondary to that in that of course we all want to see consistently good performances which are pleasing on the eye, but if that isn't possible, getting those points is a must. 

The main thing is that some never gave him a chance and are so entrenched that they will not warm to him whatever.  We could start playing total football and it would be ‘but this, but that, but the other…’ all the time until he leaves - which of course is Inevitable at some point.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

12 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Does it, really?  No, just bored, believe me.

Another reply. I’m flattered honestly. But does it count as ‘playground’ when you just HAVE to get the last word in? 😂 

it’s ok, it isn’t a trap. You can stop replying from right now. Maybe set up a new thread that adds more maturity to proceedings. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

The main thing is that some never gave him a chance and are so entrenched that they will not warm to him whatever.  We could start playing total football and it would be ‘but this, but that, but the other…’ all the time until he leaves - which of course is Inevitable at some point.

Ill have an opinion on this. If Dean Smith starts playing total football over more than an accidental 20 minutes, then I’ll support him 100%. 

[The Real Buh 3,480]

Just now, SwearyCanary said:

Ill have an opinion on this. If Dean Smith starts playing total football over more than an accidental 20 minutes, then I’ll support him 100%. 

I will change my opinion on him if he earns it btw.

not only have I got an opinion but I’m willing to change it 

what a madman!

[Branston Pickle 3,688]

1 minute ago, SwearyCanary said:

Ill have an opinion on this. If Dean Smith starts playing total football over more than an accidental 20 minutes, then I’ll support him 100%. 

Now that I don’t believe.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Now that I don’t believe.

I mean if you are being honest do you believe he is likely to start playing total football, or even something worth calling a style? 
Careful here, I am now actually asking you for an opinion, so to make it clear

Do you feel Dean Smith will play football worth getting behind for us? If you answer yes, are you then officially backing him? 

waits with anticipation 

[chicken 2,642]

2 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

I mean if you are being honest do you believe he is likely to start playing total football, or even something worth calling a style? 
Careful here, I am now actually asking you for an opinion, so to make it clear

Do you feel Dean Smith will play football worth getting behind for us? If you answer yes, are you then officially backing him? 

waits with anticipation 

It's not.

Dean Smith has overseen teams that have played better football than we are currently. So it's perfectly logical to suggest he will again in the future. However, the question still remains over him right now.

As I have said elsewhere - it is possible to not have to have such polarising views and then force others to have to take up the opposite because they don't agree with you (the colloquial you, not the personal view, just to be clear).

In this instance there are actually more than just the two options, no matter that it doesn't suit your agenda.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

3 minutes ago, chicken said:

It's not.

Dean Smith has overseen teams that have played better football than we are currently. So it's perfectly logical to suggest he will again in the future. However, the question still remains over him right now.

As I have said elsewhere - it is possible to not have to have such polarising views and then force others to have to take up the opposite because they don't agree with you (the colloquial you, not the personal view, just to be clear).

In this instance there are actually more than just the two options, no matter that it doesn't suit your agenda.

I was just asking if anybody would publicly support Smith and the response was what I expected. Nobody is willing to say they support him.

I didn’t expect it to go to nobody willing to publicly say anything remotely positive about him, but there you go.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

1 minute ago, chicken said:

It's not.

Dean Smith has overseen teams that have played better football than we are currently. So it's perfectly logical to suggest he will again in the future. However, the question still remains over him right now.

As I have said elsewhere - it is possible to not have to have such polarising views and then force others to have to take up the opposite because they don't agree with you (the colloquial you, not the personal view, just to be clear).

In this instance there are actually more than just the two options, no matter that it doesn't suit your agenda.

I don’t have an agenda! I have an OPINION. I don’t believe from DS tenure with us that he will instil a style of football I can get behind. I accept he has historically been able to get teams playing good football, but I would expect to see more of this after this time than he has shown. Brentford under Smith did not have the standard of player we have now. Villa under Smith at championship level maybe did. But they scraped in the the PO places. Villa under smith in the EPL had some great days at the races, including vs Liverpool. So why hasn’t he got us doing that? 

It’s not trying to get people to agree with me, it’s trying to get them to tell me what they think. So far the answer I’m getting is ‘meh’. Which I’m less upset by than Buh, but the meh brigade are very very quick to jump in anyone who does have a stronger view. They surely can expect a defence of that? 

[Branston Pickle 3,688]

Smith has managed for over 10 years and has a reputation for playing a far more expansive style than we’ve seen to date, for one reason or another (I wonder if it’s linked to injuries, we’ve had plenty this season so far and are hopefully through that now).  I imagine we all hope our form will improve, I certainly do.

[chicken 2,642]

20 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

I don’t have an agenda! I have an OPINION. I don’t believe from DS tenure with us that he will instil a style of football I can get behind. I accept he has historically been able to get teams playing good football, but I would expect to see more of this after this time than he has shown. Brentford under Smith did not have the standard of player we have now. Villa under Smith at championship level maybe did. But they scraped in the the PO places. Villa under smith in the EPL had some great days at the races, including vs Liverpool. So why hasn’t he got us doing that? 

It’s not trying to get people to agree with me, it’s trying to get them to tell me what they think. So far the answer I’m getting is ‘meh’. Which I’m less upset by than Buh, but the meh brigade are very very quick to jump in anyone who does have a stronger view. They surely can expect a defence of that? 

Your opinion is that there should only be two answers. Forcing that on someone else is an agenda because you want it to suit your opinions. You clearly said that there is only in and out because you ruled that:

Quote

Do you feel Dean Smith will play football worth getting behind for us? If you answer yes, are you then officially backing him? 

When it's not. A clear case of trying to play someone into your agenda which is to cut out the middle ground and be divisive so you can either attack them for opposing your point of view or to congratulate them for finally joining the "right side" of the debate, your side.

You won't like me for saying it, I'm sure, but it is not a particularly mature or respectful angle to take. Especially when it is in essence, wrong. 

As I have said time and time again, you don't have to be a fan of Smith to be willing to give him more time. That stance also doesn't equate to "backing" him.

So yes, you posed a question that suits your agenda. 

[chicken 2,642]

10 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Smith has managed for over 10 years and has a reputation for playing a far more expansive style than we’ve seen to date, for one reason or another (I wonder if it’s linked to injuries, we’ve had plenty this season so far and are hopefully through that now).  I imagine we all hope our form will improve, I certainly do.

And this is where a lot of people are I think. Certainly my friends and family that regularly go to or see matches. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

51 minutes ago, chicken said:

Your opinion is that there should only be two answers. Forcing that on someone else is an agenda because you want it to suit your opinions. You clearly said that there is only in and out because you ruled that:

When it's not. A clear case of trying to play someone into your agenda which is to cut out the middle ground and be divisive so you can either attack them for opposing your point of view or to congratulate them for finally joining the "right side" of the debate, your side.

You won't like me for saying it, I'm sure, but it is not a particularly mature or respectful angle to take. Especially when it is in essence, wrong. 

As I have said time and time again, you don't have to be a fan of Smith to be willing to give him more time. That stance also doesn't equate to "backing" him.

So yes, you posed a question that suits your agenda. 

What part of ‘if the answer is yes ARE you officially backing him’ is a forced agenda? The answer can be ‘no I don’t and yes I am backing him for now’. That’s totally fine, it at least indicates that someone is backing him for a specified time frame, until they then make a further decision either way…, or don’t and wait longer. Also fine. 

Branston isn’t actually saying that though. He’s saying nothing at all. He is not even committing to not committing. 

So my opinion is not that there are only two answers at all, there are a lot, so why does Branston not just offer one of them? 

But you can tell me I’m wrong, immature or disrespectful as often as you like if you have the arrogance to believe your opinion is superior to mine in some way. It’s very clear that you have an high level of hypocrisy in your posts outlining how people shouldn’t dare to utter a viewpoint you don’t agree with, because that makes them automatically ‘in essence’ wrong. I couldn’t care which of the many sides of the debate another poster falls on, but I do find the willingness to dismiss a side as rubbish or ‘wrong’ but refusing to outline their own view as utterly perplexing. Nothing insulting about that, that it’s weird to have a strong ‘anti-your view’ stance without having outlined a ‘pro-my view’ perspective. 

We are not going to agree on this and tbh it just feels like you’re trying to pick fights to see if you can sneeringly claim some odd kind of virtual submission move in me. I’m flattered that you care and you’re clearly intelligent enough to know that no matter how much you try to wrangle a knock out blow to my argument that it won’t stick, just as I know that me saying that will not dissuade you from feeling personally you easily got the better of me and bamboozled me with your superior quoting of statistics. I guess we are just two arrogant little peas in a giant forum sized pod of ‘who really gives a f*** it’s a football forum’. The gallant defender of Branston’s honour bit is a nice touch though, Im sure he appreciates being patronised by you also. 

Sleep well on your bed of self gratification 😂

Edited December 11, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[The Real Buh 3,480]

Just to summarise, we sit 4th in the league and the most committal thing somebody is willing to say about Dean Smith is 

“Dean Smith is an employee of Norwich City football club”

None of this is odd to anybody? 

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

54 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Just to summarise, we sit 4th in the league and the most committal thing somebody is willing to say about Dean Smith is 

“Dean Smith is an employee of Norwich City football club”

None of this is odd to anybody? 

No.

[KeiranShikari 1,434]

Not sacking him soon will undoubtedly cost us an automatic promotion place. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Just to summarise, we sit 4th in the league and the most committal thing somebody is willing to say about Dean Smith is 

“Dean Smith is an employee of Norwich City football club”

None of this is odd to anybody? 

I think it actually makes a lot of sense that the people not obsessed with hiring and firing managers just don't engage with this thread at all given that it's repeated week after week, win or lose. I suspect people just get tired of recycling the same arguments again and again.

We're in the play off positions and automatic promotion slots are still well within reach given we have well over half the season to go. Our first game after the break appeared to indicate a big step up in defensive solidity against a decent championship side. There's no call for yet another thread on this tedious subject.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[The Real Buh 3,480]

51 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think it actually makes a lot of sense that the people not obsessed with hiring and firing managers just don't engage with this thread at all given that it's repeated week after week, win or lose. I suspect people just get tired of recycling the same arguments again and again.

We're in the play off positions and automatic promotion slots are still well within reach given we have well over half the season to go. Our first game after the break appeared to indicate a big step up in defensive solidity against a decent championship side. There's no call for yet another thread on this tedious subject.

 

 

On the balance of everything surely one person would have the courage to say something, anything at all, positive about him.

Theres a great deal of fear involved with backing our manager and my theory is that it’s because those that can’t bring themselves to have a negative opinion about him, because of their personality or fear of being labelled, don’t actually back him at all and see the weaknesses those that feel negatively about him feel.

The crowd is very much ready to turn

[hogesar 9,743]

20 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

On the balance of everything surely one person would have the courage to say something, anything at all, positive about him.

Theres a great deal of fear involved with backing our manager and my theory is that it’s because those that can’t bring themselves to have a negative opinion about him, because of their personality or fear of being labelled, don’t actually back him at all and see the weaknesses those that feel negatively about him feel.

The crowd is very much ready to turn

Are they? You don't seem to be. You've not even whispered "Dean Smith Out" at Carrow Road 😉

 

[Capt. Pants 4,277]

A lot of us are sitting on the fence as you could see a scenario where Smith is removed. Likewise, by year end we could be well back in the automatic promotion places.

I think it also shows Smith so far is 'meh' and nobody is that bothered if he's our manager or not. Again that could all change such is the fickleness of footy fans. I'd be very surprised if NCFC were to sack 2 managers in little over a year.

Personally I have more affiliation with the players, a lot less with the coach and **** all with the owners and exec, so I'm not bothered either way atm such is my apathy.

[hogesar 9,743]

13 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

My view on Dean Smith hasn't changed; indifferent to his rather beige personality, getting very bored of his insipid football. I believe we need major surgery to be fit for the PL. I don't think Smith will take us up this season, and even if he did we'd be cannon fodder.

Sacking Smith now might result in an uptick in results, and possibly sneaking up to the PL as we did under Alex Neil in 2015. However, I've been thinking this over quite a lot today, and I could actually put up with Smith until the end of the season in the following scenario:

We 'do nothing' in January, as there's very little money anyway, and Smith has done nothing to suggest he'd improve any players we may purchase. We fast-track to the summer, when Webber is back from his Everest trip (and might have decided to move on anyway), the Attanasios have their feet under the table (and possibly more shares), and we go after a bold managerial appointment in the same vein as Kompany, and give him an entire summer (and an entire season) to implement his philosophy as we did with Farke.

With our existing academy and training facilities coupled with the potential future investment from Attanasio, I think we'd be quite an attractive proposition for an up-and-coming manager.

 

I quite like the idea of this "perfect scenario" although I don't think we'd be any worse in the Prem than we have been in the previous two attempts..maybe even slightly better as we don't rely on needing 75% possession to win a game.

Smith hasn't done enough for fans to be desperate for him to stay by any means, but he does also have us 4th in the League. When you consider Watford have tried changing manager and yet find themselves below us with a good squad and a real "weapon" in attack then I don't think he's doing an awful job. It's just not a brilliant one.

[Feedthewolf 4,872]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

I quite like the idea of this "perfect scenario" although I don't think we'd be any worse in the Prem than we have been in the previous two attempts..maybe even slightly better as we don't rely on needing 75% possession to win a game.

Smith hasn't done enough for fans to be desperate for him to stay by any means, but he does also have us 4th in the League. When you consider Watford have tried changing manager and yet find themselves below us with a good squad and a real "weapon" in attack then I don't think he's doing an awful job. It's just not a brilliant one.

Regarding the first paragraph, I think it's unlikely we'll find out either way 🙂

As to the second, I don't think Smith is doing an 'awful' job. However, I think our league position/points total is a little below where I had hoped/expected to be, and the level of performance is significantly below where I expected. Couple this with his lack of ability/desire to build bridges with the fans, and I can totally understand the negativity.

If we can string together two or three wins where we are categorically the better team, starting against third-placed Blackburn on Saturday, I think a lot of the ill-feeling against him will start to dissipate. Three of the next four are at home, so good results and performances could reinvigorate the fans – however, poor performances and results could really increase the volume and intensity of discontent.

A key three weeks in the season coming up!

[nutty nigel 7,619]

Next week's game is the halfway point.

What position would be acceptable?

What position would be sackable?

 

[Channon’s Windmill 330]

As a lot of people have said a lot depends on our home form, starting next week. Win and we are keeping pace with the automatics, lose and the calls for Smith out may grow after similar against Middlesbrough/ Preston and Luton. Draw and the discussion continues.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

29 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

 Couple this with his lack of ability/desire to build bridges with the fans, and I can totally understand the negativity.

Implicit in this is a belief he is somehow required to rebuild bridges with fans. Given that last season was clearly a hiding to nothing with the players at his disposal and, this season, we're in an acceptable position, I think the problem is that of the people who think he has something to apologise for in the first place, simply for being the guy who replaced Farke.

[Feedthewolf 4,872]

21 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Implicit in this is a belief he is somehow required to rebuild bridges with fans. Given that last season was clearly a hiding to nothing with the players at his disposal and, this season, we're in an acceptable position, I think the problem is that of the people who think he has something to apologise for in the first place, simply for being the guy who replaced Farke.

It's not a requirement, but having no desire to do it clearly works against him rather than for him when considering his popularity as manager. It's waaaay less important than what's happening on the pitch, though.