Parma’s State of the Nation

[essex canary 516]

9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Hear of such a thing, Parma? Of course. And as you seem to have worked out I am the twisted Machiavellian genius behind this sordid bit of mutual back-scratching.😛

There needs to be a disclosure of your true role with the Club and associated consultancy fee.

[PurpleCanary 5,606]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

There needs to be a disclosure of your true role with the Club and associated consultancy fee.

Heavens, the questions you have for the AGM are piling up. Given your views on supposed financial profligacy at Carrow Road I really don't think you are going to like the answers to these new ones....😍

[essex canary 516]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Heavens, the questions you have for the AGM are piling up. Given your views on supposed financial profligacy at Carrow Road I really don't think you are going to like the answers to these new ones....😍

I really must try not to break my record of last year.

[nutty nigel 7,670]

Will there be an AGM that we can attend? Perhaps in Milwaukee? How much are the flights? 

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

15 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Will there be an AGM that we can attend? Perhaps in Milwaukee? How much are the flights? 

 

[essex canary 516]

17 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Will there be an AGM that we can attend? Perhaps in Milwaukee? How much are the flights? 

Hopefully you will get an opportunity to say how embarrassed you are to receive a nice shiny new season card for being a new member of a concession category that doesn't exist at other clubs where they are more focussed on giving concessions to younger people struggling with high mortgage rates and private sector rents etc.

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

14 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Hopefully you will get an opportunity to say how embarrassed you are to receive a nice shiny new season card for being a new member of a concession category that doesn't exist at other clubs where they are more focussed on giving concessions to younger people struggling with high mortgage rates and private sector rents etc.

Can you  live up to your expectations of others, Ethics? 

You come across like Jesus at the Temple  about to do battle with the  money lenders, when you are in fact one of the money lenders.

[nutty nigel 7,670]

17 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Hopefully you will get an opportunity to say how embarrassed you are to receive a nice shiny new season card for being a new member of a concession category that doesn't exist at other clubs where they are more focussed on giving concessions to younger people struggling with high mortgage rates and private sector rents etc.

I'm not a new member of a concession category...

[Mello Yello 2,315]

1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

 

'Schlitz'....an oriental word for 'poorly tummy'....

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,252]

In case there was any doubt about the ‘football water cooler’ and players’ acute sense of football momentum being pretty much the currency that players and agents hone in on and chat about all the time, here is what Declan Rice said upon joining Arsenal:

"I've been looking at Arsenal over the last couple of seasons and the trajectory they've been on," he said.

"Not last season but the season before, they [only] finished fifth, but you could see the style of play Mikel was implementing. ‘

Norwich had this summer ‘21 until selling Buendia at the point of promotion. Guardiola watched us. People inside football talked about us, were interested. We could have persuaded people to join us who otherwise wouldn’t have. 

‘Who’s hot?’ Is the endless chatter amongst players, agents, coaches and scouts..which clubs are on the up. 

You don’t have to be as wise as @ricardo to know that such moments come more often for some clubs than others. 

I wonder if we were ever as hot as that moment in the modern game?

Parma

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,252]

 

Posted just now

   8 minutes ago,  hogesar said: 

I actually think the majority of fans that turn up every week aren't desperate for Delia and MWJ to disappear. It's why any sort of Delia Out protest gathers a hundred or so people at best out of 27,000 no matter how bad we do.

Isn’t the truth that Delia is absolutely the perfect owner? 

She is a great, passionate fan and cares deeply, wholeheartedly about the club in a soulless, artificial geopolitical sporting playground?

However.

Having putting in absolutely no money at all - at any recent point - forcing extreme sporting decisions and extreme positions - is also an anachronism, almost at any level of football. 

The dichotomy is not nothing at all or Saudi Sportwashing. It is not disloyal or even particularly critical to wish for enough to function reasonably in a reasonable market - that we have chosen to be in - particularly when rare opportunities present themselves and we cannot even sustain the dream of dreaming. 

Parma

Edited July 18, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
Forgive the reprint. I just really liked this. I hasn’t really thought of it this way before ❤️

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,252]

Daniel Farke should not be branded a Premier League flop with Norwich City, insists new Leeds United chairman Paraag Marathe.

The new Whites’ figurehead has opened up on why Farke was the right candidate to revive Leeds’ fortunes, after the 49ers Enterprises takeover was confirmed on Monday. 

Farke won the Championship twice at Carrow Road but finished rock bottom in his first full season and was dismissed four months into his second tilt. 

But Marathe, speaking to Leeds’ official podcast in his first interview, made it clear Farke can count on financial backing at Elland Road. 

Chelsea’s Ethan Ampadu is tipped to be Farke’s first signing since his move to Yorkshire. 

“I don’t think he had a fair deck of cards when he got back up to the Premier League and had two shots at it,” he said. “And so that’s one thing that we’re going to rectify and give him the deck of cards that he needs to be successful once we get back up, because I think he can be a very, very successful coach across Europe. 

“This isn’t just ‘Hey, get us through the Championship’. You know, he’s got a quiet confidence about him that is infectious, magnetic. 

“You just spend enough time with him around the room, you believe whatever he believes, just because of the confidence by which he carries himself. That’s the qualitative thing. The quantitative thing is he’s been damn successful. 

“He didn’t just win the Championship twice, he dominated the Championship twice. He knows what it takes. He knows the grit. He knows the fight. He knows the blood, sweat and tears it’s going to take, to get through the Championship.” 

Farke’s Carrow Road reunion is scheduled for October 21, with Norwich set to travel to Elland Road in the Championship on January 27 next year. 

The German’s reputation for developing young talent at the Canaries did not escape the attention of the new American ownership. 

“He’s got a style of play that I think resonates with our supporters and a style of play that I think fits the players that we have,” said Marathe. 

“You know, he’s been known to develop youngsters and you know, as you know, we’ve got a great crop of youngsters at the club through the academy as well. 

“He’s got a great empathy, which I appreciate, he’s got a great understanding for the feelings of people on how the feelings of people, not just players, but coaches and staff and ownership, all interact to form a good chemistry of a team. 

“And that’s one thing that I found really important in American football, in a head coach was having that deep empathy and understanding and I think he’s really got that too.”

——————-

So, is he right or not?

Parma

[PurpleCanary 5,606]

No.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,252]

15 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

No.

Transposing from the other thread:

‘Are you afraid that he’s wrong or rather that he might be right?

I love being a fan, though some things are Grant Holt and some are David Gow.

I think we knew Farke was special didn’t we? Somebody else sees it too. 

‘You can make any decision you like, just be ready to pay the bill’

Parma 

@ricardo is a pretty wise, empirical old bird. I think he thinks Farke was special. Very occasionally you feel it. 

. 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[nutty nigel 7,670]

There's no doubt that Farke was special.

There is a doubt if 11 defeats on the trot would have been tolerated in the stadium. Actually for me no doubt. It wouldn't have been.

The Farke out bed sheet went to Brentford for less.

 

 

 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,252]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

There's no doubt that Farke was special.

There is a doubt if 11 defeats on the trot would have been tolerated in the stadium. Actually for me no doubt. It wouldn't have been.

The Farke out bed sheet went to Brentford for less.

 

 

 

Yes,  but you also know very well that some people view life through a negative prism regardless of the view in front of them. 

It proves nothing other than some people vent or are unhappy in their lives about many things. They transfer that frustration to football, golf, Farke, anything.

I think you know perfectly well that Farke created exceptional football, with exceptional success - and multiple trophies - with no football money and a wonderful, entertaining ethos.

Success at the top level is almost impossible for any club, let alone one that is self-sustaining. 

In context, to the naked eye, empirically, aesthetically and culturally Farke was historically special. 

Only the passing of time will show how much. And perhaps success at Leeds as a kicker. 

Parma 

[nutty nigel 7,670]

37 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Yes,  but you also know very well that some people view life through a negative prism regardless of the view in front of them. 

It proves nothing other than some people vent or are unhappy in their lives about many things. They transfer that frustration to football, golf, Farke, anything.

I think you know perfectly well that Farke created exceptional football, with exceptional success - and multiple trophies - with no football money and a wonderful, entertaining ethos.

Success at the top level is almost impossible for any club, let alone one that is self-sustaining. 

In context, to the naked eye, empirically, aesthetically and culturally Farke was historically special. 

Only the passing of time will show how much. And perhaps success at Leeds as a kicker. 

Parma 

I know that for the first 16 months he was here much of the support in the ground did not like Farke's football. It seemed just as may TV fans thought the same. 

Farke and his football were loved Nov 18 pretty much until lockdown. It was the best togetherness at Carrow Road for many a year. I would say as good as the best since I started going in the 60s. A real joy because football is more fun when we're all on the same page. But after lockdown that never came back. It was like it had never happened.

But to be fair most of our fans are a bit like me, and you know me buddy, you've sat with me at games. I don't know empirically, culturally or aesthetically. I just know we need to win a few and the ref's only right when he judges in our favour

It's the passing of time that worries me. I hope we can get past Farke and Webber before the grim reaper strikes his fatal blow. But I'm beginning to doubt it.

Edited July 18, 2023 by nutty nigel
💛⚽💚👍

[essex canary 516]

On 14/07/2023 at 12:04, wcorkcanary said:

Can you  live up to your expectations of others, Ethics? 

You come across like Jesus at the Temple  about to do battle with the  money lenders, when you are in fact one of the money lenders.

I have got a good book that suggests you are 500 years behind the times. 'Civilisation - The West and the Rest (Niall Ferguson). A quote:

'Until the Reformation, Christian religious devotion had been something distinct from the material affairs of the world. Lending money at interest was a sin. All that changed after the 1520's in the countries that embraced the Reformation. What was it that made the north of Europe more friendly towards capitalism than the south?'     

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

I have got a good book that suggests you are 500 years behind the times. 'Civilisation - The West and the Rest (Niall Ferguson). A quote:

'Until the Reformation, Christian religious devotion had been something distinct from the material affairs of the world. Lending money at interest was a sin. All that changed after the 1520's in the countries that embraced the Reformation. What was it that made the north of Europe more friendly towards capitalism than the south?'     

More irrelevant  shoite. Do one.   

[essex canary 516]

27 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

More irrelevant  shoite. Do one.   

Not sure that Marky Mark thinks interest is a sin.

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

23 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Not sure that Marky Mark thinks interest is a sin.

Just cos someone else is a moneycont doesnt mean you have to be. Just sayin. 

[Captain Holt 522]

Getting worse by the day. 

‘Wait and see what happens come the end of the window’ - why? It’s in the hands of Sh1tshow Stu and Dreary Dave.

We will finish considerably closer to the bottom than the top.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,252]

 

A brief strategic history of Norwich time:

 

Attanasio looks for a football club to buy in England ‘for ten years’

Neither Attanasio, nor Norwich connect

Norwich employ a new model

A sporting Director

Positional Play methodology through the club

Have to sell Maddison

Gets injured in last game

Surprise success

Buendia-Pukki

Promotion

Don’t spend money ‘to come back stronger’

Covid losses

Lots of Premier losses

Historically brilliant promotion

Sell best player at point of promotion

Don’t replace Skipp

Don’t replace Skipp’s role

Players unhappy at the broken ‘stronger’ promise

Nexus point slide begins 

Expensive wide squad created

High money invested in wingers Tzolis and Rashica, wide striker in Sargent 

No obvious weapons 

Farke sacked after 2 months and 10 games

More defensive, structured premier nous manager idea employed

Positional play methodology through club abandoned

Norwich relegated 

Bright start to Championship

Footballing identity unclear

Slide to mid-table mediocrity

Manager changed

Webber-Wagner-Ida-Weaver and others all re-united

Michael Foulger sells his shares

Attanasio ideal for Norwich as future owner 

Webber announces resignation (in 1 year)

Problem identified as lack of experience, nous, game-management

Older experienced players bought in on frees 

Footballing identity based on 2 strikers

A promising start 

2 strikers injured 

Despite experience team loses 7 in 9

 

Questions on the history:

 

1. If Attanasio had ‘looked for a club to buy in England for ten years’ why didn’t we connect with him before?

2. If he is perfect now, why wasn’t he perfect before?

3. Did risking Maddison when we really needed rnoney make us risk-averse with players of value later?

4. Why did Skipp’s role - having been so pivotal- become subsequently unnecessary?

5. Who in senior roles understood the fragile vagaries of players’ minds? 

6. Did ‘ignoring the noise’ from ex-players (and within the dressing room) work out well?

7. If defensive strength was identified as key to staying up at the top level, why were comparatively huge sums spent on 2 wingers that almost nobody at the top uses because it’s too open?

8. If positional play methodology was developed and operated throughout the club -then abandoned post-Farke- is it the wrong thing to teach young players?

9. If all the best people for the job were all previously employed at Huddersfield, is this an extraordinary coincidence or is Webber’s methodology just a mirror of the ‘old boy’s network’ he originally derided and deleted?

10. If previously the model was buy young,  early and forensically in order to blood talent and - eventually - make good profits, how does buying old players on frees and with no resale value fit that model?

11. Are cheap free players, old friends and here-and-now experience a holding pattern to keep us in the league while costs are cut?

12. Has the fans excitement at another new season overshadowed the reality of a massive hollowing out of player quality, funds and expectations?

13. Is the current strategy a holding pattern partly due to the hiatus until new ownership takes the reins?

14. Given the poor current performance is the outgoing Sporting Director in a position to make major decisions?

15. Are the current majority-minority owners in a position to make major decisions?

16. Are Attanasio and Norfolk in a position to make major decisions?

17. Is Knapper fully engaged in the process of making or preparing for major decisions?

18. Who does he report to?

19. Does all of the above imply a coherent Sporting philosophy?

20. Do new owners like a clean slate and an opportunity to be seen to make a dramatic difference?

21. Does this mean that the club is merely trying to tread sporting water for a period? 

22. Does such an approach have a good history of success?

 

Parma 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
Off the top of my head. Please feel free to add-edit history and questions

[nutty nigel 7,670]

One that immediately springs to mind buddy...

If Attanasio had been looking to buy a football club in England for ten years why hadn't he bought one? Ten years is a huge chunk of anyone's life.

[Midlands Yellow 4,122]

11 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

A brief strategic history of Norwich time:

 

Attanasio looks for a football club to buy in England ‘for ten years’

Neither Attanasio, nor Norwich connect

Norwich employ a new model

A sporting Director

Positional Play methodology through the club

Have to sell Maddison

Gets injured in last game

Surprise success

Buendia-Pukki

Promotion

Don’t spend money ‘to come back stronger’

Covid losses

Lots of Premier losses

Historically brilliant promotion

Sell best player at point of promotion

Don’t replace Skipp

Don’t replace Skipp’s role

Players unhappy at the broken ‘stronger’ promise

Nexus point slide begins 

Expensive wide squad created

High money invested in wingers Tzolis and Rashica, wide striker in Sargent 

No obvious weapons 

Farke sacked after 2 months and 10 games

More defensive, structured premier nous manager idea employed

Positional play methodology through club abandoned

Norwich relegated 

Bright start to Championship

Footballing identity unclear

Slide to mid-table mediocrity

Manager changed

Webber-Wagner-Ida-Weaver and others all re-united

Michael Foulger sells his shares

Attanasio ideal for Norwich as future owner 

Webber announces resignation (in 1 year)

Problem identified as lack of experience, nous, game-management

Older experienced players bought in on frees 

Footballing identity based on 2 strikers

A promising start 

2 strikers injured 

Despite experience team loses 7 in 9

 

Questions on the history:

 

1. If Attanasio had ‘looked for a club to buy in England for ten years’ why didn’t we connect with him before?

2. If he is perfect now, why wasn’t he perfect before?

3. Did risking Maddison when we really needed rnoney make us risk-averse with players of value later?

4. Why did Skipp’s role - having been so pivotal- become subsequently unnecessary?

5. Who in senior roles understood the fragile vagaries of players’ minds? 

6. Did ‘ignoring the noise’ from ex-players (and within the dressing room) work out well?

7. If defensive strength was identified as key to staying up at the top level, why were comparatively huge sums spent on 2 wingers that almost nobody at the top uses because it’s too open?

8. If positional play methodology was developed and operated throughout the club -then abandoned post-Farke- is it the wrong thing to teach young players?

9. If all the best people for the job were all previously employed at Huddersfield, is this an extraordinary coincidence or is Webber’s methodology just a mirror of the ‘old boy’s network’ he originally derided and deleted?

10. If previously the model was buy young,  early and forensically in order to blood talent and - eventually - make good profits, how does buying old players on frees and with no resale value fit that model?

11. Are cheap free players, old friends and here-and-now experience a holding pattern to keep us in the league while costs are cut?

12. Has the fans excitement at another new season overshadowed the reality of a massive hollowing out of player quality, funds and expectations?

13. Is the current strategy a holding pattern partly due to the hiatus until new ownership takes the reins?

14. Given the poor current performance is the outgoing Sporting Director in a position to make major decisions?

15. Are the current majority-minority owners in a position to make major decisions?

16. Are Attanasio and Norfolk in a position to make major decisions?

17. Is Knapper fully engaged in the process of making or preparing for major decisions?

18. Who does he report to?

19. Does all of the above imply a coherent Sporting philosophy?

20. Do new owners like a clean slate and an opportunity to be seen to make a dramatic difference?

21. Does this mean that the club is merely trying to tread sporting water for a period? 

22. Does such an approach have a good history of success?

 

Parma 

 

No new stand still, talk about it  at every AGM though. Could have banged it up for £20m or less but now it’s £60m + and our only hope is with the new owners. 

[Morph 19]

I‘ve been meaning to ask for a while, do you see a solution to City’s current malaise @Parma Ham's gone mouldy with the squad they have, with the current injuries and after they are sorted?

If so, is Wagner simply incapable of seeing it himself?

Is there a tactical change he should have made when the two key strikers were lost to injury?

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,252]

50 minutes ago, Morph said:

I‘ve been meaning to ask for a while, do you see a solution to City’s current malaise @Parma Ham's gone mouldy with the squad they have, with the current injuries and after they are sorted?

If so, is Wagner simply incapable of seeing it himself?

Is there a tactical change he should have made when the two key strikers were lost to injury?

I had very low expectations pre-season Morph. All the footballing noise was pretty fearful of a Norwich slide.

Wagner employed an unusual model of play that asked a lot of Sargent-Barnes, made considerable structural compromises elsewhere  and looked a little open through the Centre. 

Post Sargent-Barnes it looks horribly open through the Centre, lacking in the ‘good awkwardness’ that Sargent-Barnes brought and retaining and exposing all of the weaknesses that were noted even before they were injured. 

Pushing full backs forward with slow Centre backs, plus a midfield duo of puppy ball-chasing McClean (he’s got better, though still very sweetly-incorrectly tries to run around correcting everyone else’s mistakes) and Sara (super eye-catching moments, mostly pretty weak positioning, lack of key defensive transitional moment awareness and reasonably regular ‘ambling’), is an obvious recipe for a weak heart Centre (where most of the key goals come from).

As a coach I have my ideas about where the key spaces are on the pitch, though I never, never approach a new club or team with a blueprint of how I am going to play. You must look closely at what you have first. Then design.

By look closely I also mean learn and understand the psychological tendencies and characters of your players. Know their weaknesses. These will soon show up under pressure. And pressure will come soon enough.

Wagner’s team against sunderland looked very much like a managerial-speak ‘look at what I’m (forced to be) working with ‘

It looked horribly weak and callow on paper and worse on grass. The lack of intensity and cohesion in the press at 1-2 down early second half was awful, awful. 

His post match comments used the word ‘players’ a lot too. That was noted. The dressing room will be even less thrilled now I assure you. 

One point to note Morph: Barnes has never scored goals like a striker. Sargent - as Greg Downes observed - ‘is not a world beater’.

We have a lot of poor players. We’ve hollowed out a horribly over-blown squad of ‘3/4 good’ players, that itself was a terribly flawed strategy perhaps influenced by post-covid injuries. I really don’t get why we had 35 odd senior paid professionals. Have 18 and spend the considerable wages savings on keeping weapons, paying Skipp and-or buying one more weapon. This is the Brentford model that has been recommended throughout  my Masterclasses for years. That’s not me being clever, that’s what teams with limited finance and a desire to progress do. Across Europe. 

Idah is the one. They pinned a lot of on Idah. Did they want to use him or not? Did they believe in him or not? He still looks raw and rather passive in his play.

I ‘spose you’d have to play him high, make him run channels, knock people about, get Sara in the 10 behind him, maybe Rowe floating about around there too (no wingers), couple of eights behind them MacClean and Gibbs maybe, though I’d also like Gibbs at CDM - Someone must fill that space at any cost!…

There you go…a starter for ten. There isn’t a lot to work with I’m afraid. And they all look like they know it. That’s a bad sign. 

It’s not going to happen this season, though plenty a team has got relegated playing quite tidy football at times, just not scoring easily and letting goals in too often……

…sound a bit familiar?

Parma 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
.

[ricardo 7,445]

You more or less answered your own questions Parma.

A unique approach was all needlessly thrown away.  Now we are back with everyone else in the same old sack race. Its enough to make you weep.

 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,252]

20 minutes ago, ricardo said:

You more or less answered your own questions Parma.

A unique approach was all needlessly thrown away.  Now we are back with everyone else in the same old sack race. Its enough to make you weep.

 

Here’s one - actually seven - more for you Ricardo:

1. Do you think - given her avowed love of the Guy Roux model at Auxerre - that Delia wanted to tear up the Farke blueprint?

2. Do you think tearing it up was driven by what was best for the club (and its parameters) or by the desire of the Sporting Director to push beyond (for some of his own reasons)?

3. Was it sportingly realistic, financially-sensible,  operationally-wise to push beyond at that point?

4. What is the role of a sporting Director (and Board) if not to - behind closed doors - recognise the deep realities of the club and act accordingly in key moments? 

5. Were they right?

6. Should they have known better?

7. Did they let the managers manage again? 

Parma 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

It all comes back to one moment of weakness:

Webber didn’t want to admit he’d screwed up again with the summer recruitment in our 2nd Premier League season. He had to pin the failings on Farke rather than admit that he’d failed to equip him with a squad that was capable of competing. Had he been less bullish before the season started he could have backed away from the situation but he’d given himself no room so a fall guy had to be found and it was easier for him to sack Daniel Farke than admit he’d failed again.

So Farke got the boot, Webber pressed the panic button with the appointment of Dean Smith and out went everything the model had been working towards. All the magic, the cohesion, the model, all of it out the window because Webber had said we could accomplish the impossible (build a premier league survival squad on zero investment and after losing Emi and Skipp) and when it became clear that we couldn’t, he pinned it on Farke.

What a mess.