Where will norwich finish in May 2023

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

Comparing our current squad with the previous Championship winners we have PLM, Sargent and Rashica replacing Skipp, Buendia and Cantwell. We haven't seen their Championship capability yet but it just feels we have gone backwards. 

Sargent will be solid if unspectacular, PLM probably ok if he can deal with the physicality and extra matches, but Rashica simply has to deliver and end product much like Emi did.

Such an important close season and transfer window coming up.

[Mr Angry 1,563]

5 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

No point having any more promotions as the club is in an existential crisis having reached its glass ceiling. What is Norwich City for if it can't compete beyond a certain level? The Socialists will always look upon the EPL as a till ringing free hit. Nothing more. As for lessons learnt, the Socialists don't learn them on purpose.

 

[Big Vince 318]

10 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

We’ve had this conversation remember when you evidently had no idea what a socialist was!    Off you trot bluenose!   

Whenever Brian Clough had a conversation it was in the end always agreed that he was right. And you are on the wrong side.

[Chichcan 148]

On the edge of the playoffs but finishing 8th is my prediction 

Based on Smith's record at Brentford and where I think the squad is compared to last time we went down 

My hope is that Smith manages to properly develop some of the kids and builds round Andy O, Rowe, Idah, Tzolis and some of the youth team

I wouldn't be too disappointed not going straight back up if we look as if we're building something that could work in the Prem longer term

[aBee 151]

3 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

What's his highest Champ finish?

5th with Villa after taking over when they were 14th. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,051]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Its a balance. We don't need a squad overhaul. We don't need a team full of huge brawlers with little technical ability. But we do need a couple of them. We could do with the elusive CDM we are missing being a physically big built,  athletic version whos good in the air.

Maybe, but that doesn't describe Skipp. Nor Keane, Kante, Henderson, Tielemans, Makelele etc etc. The obsession with size is short sighted. Physicality and combativeness doesn't necessarily mean massive. We need someone who can break up play, stop counters etc for sure, but that doesn't mean enormous.

[NFN FC 1,123]

Hopefully 3rd. Make it to the play-off final, take it to penalties then just sit down and refuse to take any

[CirclePoint 204]

6 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Care to expand your thinking with that quote?    Taking account of our finances and philosophy?    Insanity to my mind (and Alberts I expect) would be going down, keeping  McLean and the others that aren't good enough for the EPL, loaning one or two youngsters to get us promoted at the expense of developing players and then finding we haven't the funds to effectively replace those not good enough to step up....

The lessons we learn (I would suggest) are.... we sort the problem position properly (get physical, quick CDM's who can anticipate trouble and react), don't loan players, don't play players who can't reach the EPL level (McLean, Rupp, Zimmerman, Sargent etc...) sort out the scouting system identifying how it failed so catastrophically and if we can't do that, use the U23s more often until we can, share out the game time so we develop players like Idah, Sorensen, Rowe, Tzolis, McCallum, Martin and others including at least 2 CDMs.   That will take longer than a season but it isn't 'doing the same thing again'.     Be interested to here your thoughts since all you've done on this thread is take a dig!    For someone quoting Einstein, that doesn't seem very clever!   

 

That's my point. It's insane to believe that lessons are being learned. Since when has NCFC 'sorted the problem positions properly in the PL? When? NEVER! How can any fan look back at the last 6 - 7 years and say progress has been made? We go up. We fall back down. We go up. We fall back down. Same old, same old. We need a CB..... we need a DM...... we need a creative midfielder. If we could only fix the supply ball to Pukki........ It's always the same (desperate) level of need. Maybe we could fix the scouting. Maybe we could develop our own youth. Maybe we could take another two or three seasons to develop a strong spine down the field.... yes..yes.... the developmental route. That mantra stinks of sun burnt hope. Further, what needs to be added to the equation is that the primary driver in NCFC's business model requires the developing and selling of players for profit, hence, we are always going to be a DEVELOPMENTAL club and we will ALWAYS sell out best players to a bigger team, for the right money. The sooner we fans can accept  this whole heatedly, the sooner we will come to accept the yo-yo nature of our league position.

The challenges you have identified are the same challenges that have been plaguing NCFC for the last 10 years. So, to me, it appears that the same mistakes are being made over and over each season, with the hopes of a different outcome. Hence my comment.

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure that out. But it will take one to keep us in the Premier League.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

8 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

That's my point. It's insane to believe that lessons are being learned. Since when has NCFC 'sorted the problem positions properly in the PL? When? NEVER! How can any fan look back at the last 6 - 7 years and say progress has been made? We go up. We fall back down. We go up. We fall back down. Same old, same old. We need a CB..... we need a DM...... we need a creative midfielder. If we could only fix the supply ball to Pukki........ It's always the same (desperate) level of need. Maybe we could fix the scouting. Maybe we could develop our own youth. Maybe we could take another two or three seasons to develop a strong spine down the field.... yes..yes.... the developmental route. That mantra stinks of sun burnt hope. Further, what needs to be added to the equation is that the primary driver in NCFC's business model requires the developing and selling of players for profit, hence, we are always going to be a DEVELOPMENTAL club and we will ALWAYS sell out best players to a bigger team, for the right money. The sooner we fans can accept  this whole heatedly, the sooner we will come to accept the yo-yo nature of our league position.

The challenges you have identified are the same challenges that have been plaguing NCFC for the last 10 years. So, to me, it appears that the same mistakes are being made over and over each season, with the hopes of a different outcome. Hence my comment.

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure that out. But it will take one to keep us in the Premier League.

You didn’t make a point, you just spouted Einstein which in that instance meant diddly!     Fair enough for providing a view although I think our path this past 5 yrs has nothing to do with what we did up to 10yrs ago!   Different set up!  Those challenges are in the context of what we could do better in the context of limited funds and our philosophy.   
 

As for selling players, I do think we should not be so quick to offer them an out option since we developed them, gave them the opportunity and deserve loyalty for that.  They are also on reasonable contracts but often we have attracted good money when selling.    I’d rather give say McAlear a chance to develop at McLeans expense that may give us the option of a better player on the park or a significant boost of income than another season playing someone who can’t step up and will take up plenty of budget to replace!    Your argument doesn’t make sense.   Effectively you are arguing against me using my argument about developing players under this model!  
 
Expecting lessons to be learned may be fantasy.   I’m not sure they will be but I can hope rather than follow your depressed attitude to it all.    I was responding to the thread and your response was cheap and unnecessary!

[DraytonBoy 152]

Unless the creativity issue is addressed and a decent back-up for Pukki found it's the play-offs, relying on him to get 20+ goals again and be fit for the whole season is too much of a risk.

[Jersey Canary 143]

On 19/04/2022 at 08:22, ged in the onion bag said:

Hoping for top ten, without promotion but plenty of positive development ready for promotion push the following season.    Replace the lads who clearly aren’t good enough at this level, bring through more youngsters …. Learn the lessons and try again with a little patience this time!

Why on earth would you want any more seasons in the EFL than necessary?  Every year we are out of the EPL the gap widens quicker than we can improve our team.  Best to yoyo, take the money, keep building and hopefully one day we'll have a good season in the EPL.   Failing that we'll have a decent hybrid income and infrastructure that will allow us to be a top EFL club.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

I don't want any more seasons in the EFL than necessary, but I think one extra season is necessary so we can develop and avoid this embarrassement next time.   I don't see us making up that gap in one season, we have too many players either not good enough or in need of games and experience.    It will take two years at least!  

[CirclePoint 204]

9 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

You didn’t make a point, you just spouted Einstein which in that instance meant diddly!     Fair enough for providing a view although I think our path this past 5 yrs has nothing to do with what we did up to 10yrs ago!   Different set up!  Those challenges are in the context of what we could do better in the context of limited funds and our philosophy.   
 

As for selling players, I do think we should not be so quick to offer them an out option since we developed them, gave them the opportunity and deserve loyalty for that.  They are also on reasonable contracts but often we have attracted good money when selling.    I’d rather give say McAlear a chance to develop at McLeans expense that may give us the option of a better player on the park or a significant boost of income than another season playing someone who can’t step up and will take up plenty of budget to replace!    Your argument doesn’t make sense.   Effectively you are arguing against me using my argument about developing players under this model!  
 
Expecting lessons to be learned may be fantasy.   I’m not sure they will be but I can hope rather than follow your depressed attitude to it all.    I was responding to the thread and your response was cheap and unnecessary!

Here's another quote for you:

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." - Mark Twain

[Big Vince 318]

22 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

That's my point. It's insane to believe that lessons are being learned. Since when has NCFC 'sorted the problem positions properly in the PL? When? NEVER! How can any fan look back at the last 6 - 7 years and say progress has been made? We go up. We fall back down. We go up. We fall back down. Same old, same old. We need a CB..... we need a DM...... we need a creative midfielder. If we could only fix the supply ball to Pukki........ It's always the same (desperate) level of need. Maybe we could fix the scouting. Maybe we could develop our own youth. Maybe we could take another two or three seasons to develop a strong spine down the field.... yes..yes.... the developmental route. That mantra stinks of sun burnt hope. Further, what needs to be added to the equation is that the primary driver in NCFC's business model requires the developing and selling of players for profit, hence, we are always going to be a DEVELOPMENTAL club and we will ALWAYS sell out best players to a bigger team, for the right money. The sooner we fans can accept  this whole heatedly, the sooner we will come to accept the yo-yo nature of our league position.

The challenges you have identified are the same challenges that have been plaguing NCFC for the last 10 years. So, to me, it appears that the same mistakes are being made over and over each season, with the hopes of a different outcome. Hence my comment.

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure that out. But it will take one to keep us in the Premier League.

Agreed. And I would just add that the Socialists are taking the michaels to the nth degree by expecting a free transfer player to be the main striker season after season.