Season Ticket renewals

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

33 minutes ago, Thumbbass said:

A 9% rise would probably be enough for me to cancel out of principle. You cannot preach financial sustainability, and then use working families to sub the wages of millionaires. A rise of current level of inflation is the only acceptable increase.

That's 24.6% then, inflation over the past 8 years of price freezes.

Edited January 26, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Capt. Pants 4,361]

£100 quid a year increase is required to offset the botched up BK deal and sustain our business model.

Todd will want a new and improved contract as well.

[TIL 1010 4,859]

2 hours ago, Greavsy said:

So, when are likely to hear the S/T renewal details? 😛 

It appears even the OSP cannot provide a date.

[essex canary 523]

13 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

For starters 1986 was before the Premier League, and the explosion of finance in and out of clubs, so genuine comparisons are very hard to make. But do you have any evidence for that claim, given that you would have to be comparing us with clubs that were top flight then and are top flight now? I have no idea but it strikes me as unlikely.

How hard would you expect such evidence to be?

Last year when raising casual ticket prices the Club made comparative  reference to charges made ar Arsenal and West Ham. I am sure they would have been met with howls of derision if they had of done that 35 years ago on the grounds that Norfolk was, probably still is,  a radically different economy to London. 

[TIL 1010 4,859]

17 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Hi all,

my understanding is that the renewal forms / information are being sent out on or around the 7th February. I hope that this helps..

Thanks for that but woud be good if our fans representatives could confirm that

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

14 minutes ago, essex canary said:

How hard would you expect such evidence to be?

Last year when raising casual ticket prices the Club made comparative  reference to charges made ar Arsenal and West Ham. I am sure they would have been met with howls of derision if they had of done that 35 years ago on the grounds that Norfolk was, probably still is,  a radically different economy to London. 

Fiver a pint now down Unthank.

[Badger 2,421]

43 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

ps. Isn't what you advocate exactly where we are heading with pensions anyway? Statutory requirement to offer a defined contribution pension to pensions now. The employers required % is very low, but it is a start.

I prefer the concept of a "community pension" where provision is made out tax receipt from both employers and employees which actually  goes into  a community fund from which pensions are funded. As the fund would not be distributed as part of the will* it would remain  in the community fund which would therefore grow as a consequence building up a large surplus that could be used to address other community priorities, to be determined by the community rather than the state (as socialist, I have a deep mistrust of the state and would want to see communities empowered). The current "national insurance system" is not fit for purpose  - it is really just a tax form and more regressive than other forms - it does not fund  what it is supposed to fund.

*There would be nothing to prevent people from having private savings and pensions which they could pass on in the usual way, although  the tax on this should reflect all the tax free bonuses should be taken into account

[Greavsy 2,515]

35 minutes ago, yellow_belly said:

Hi all,

my understanding is that the renewal forms / information are being sent out on or around the 7th February. I hope that this helps..

assume the details will be released online a few days prior to the post arriving?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

I prefer the concept of a "community pension" where provision is made out tax receipt from both employers and employees which actually  goes into  a community fund from which pensions are funded. As the fund would not be distributed as part of the will* it would remain  in the community fund which would therefore grow as a consequence building up a large surplus that could be used to address other community priorities, to be determined by the community rather than the state (as socialist, I have a deep mistrust of the state and would want to see communities empowered). The current "national insurance system" is not fit for purpose  - it is really just a tax form and more regressive than other forms - it does not fund  what it is supposed to fund.

*There would be nothing to prevent people from having private savings and pensions which they could pass on in the usual way, although  the tax on this should reflect all the tax free bonuses should be taken into account

Its an interest concept that I haven't come across before to be honest.

I'll add it to a list of things to read up about.

Would still need to be a way of having 'qualifying years' though wouldn't it, much like they do with NI contributions now, some other way of recording how many years somebody has been productive. 

I do understand how, in principle, it would decrease the burden placed on future generations being asked to pay unfunded pensions despite a looming demographic crisis and a negative birth rate. So it is an interesting concept (£500k pot in todays money per person is clearly pie in the sky though, replacing current levels of state pension which people can then top up with their own private pensions more realistic goal, although I can otherwise see the attraction).

Edited January 26, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[PurpleCanary 5,646]

2 minutes ago, essex canary said:

How hard would you expect such evidence to be?

Last year when raising casual ticket prices the Club made comparative  reference to charges made ar Arsenal and West Ham. I am sure they would have been met with howls of derision if they had of done that 35 years ago on the grounds that Norfolk was, probably still is,  a radically different economy to London. 

Afraid I don't understand that answer. You were referring to season ticket prices and have quoted something irrelevant and unfactual about casual ticket prices. This is what you said:

I suspect the Clubs season ticket charges are now comparatively much higher relative to other clubs now relative to then.

The prose is a bit convoluted but what it boils down to is a claim that our season ticket prices have risen more than those of other clubs. We were in the top flight in 1986-87 and so were Arsenal, Spurs, Watford, Man Utd, Southampton, Newcastle, Leicester City, Man City and Aston Villa, who are all in the top flight this season.

What you are saying is that, just as a rough example, that if back in 1986-87 our prices were roughly level with those of Watford, a bit lower - say 15 per cent -  than those of Southampton, and markedly less - say 40 per cent - than those at Spurs, then we have now caught up or narrowed the gap.

So our prices are now higher than Watford's, level or even a touch above those of Southampton, and only 20 per cent below Spurs' prices. I stress these figures are purely to illustrate the point you claim. Again,  I have no idea, but you were the one who made the claim so you need to justify it.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

37 minutes ago, essex canary said:

How hard would you expect such evidence to be?

Last year when raising casual ticket prices the Club made comparative  reference to charges made ar Arsenal and West Ham. I am sure they would have been met with howls of derision if they had of done that 35 years ago on the grounds that Norfolk was, probably still is,  a radically different economy to London. 

 

So I've just dug out a ticket from 2004, Norwich versus Chelsea in the Premier League. 

£30.00, Jarrold Stand.

Same ticket this season is £48.00

Just stuck this in the Bank of England inflation calculator and £30.00 in 2004 is £49.01 today, with inflation averaging 2.8% over the past 18 years.

In real terms casual ticket prices have not really moved at all. 

The problem is that average wages haven't kept up with inflation over that time, and there's not much that the club can do about that if it doesn't employ you. 

Bronze fixtures are £38.00 of course. Where we would find agreement is that if the club thinks any game in the Championship can be anything other than Bronze, and therefore having a price starting with a '4' they are going to face some deserved backlash, unless its a play-off semi-final. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Greavsy 2,515]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

So I've just dug out a ticket from 2004, Norwich versus Chelsea in the Premier League. 

£30.00, Jarrold Stand.

Same ticket season before last (our last in EPL) would have been £30.00 as they were capped at that. 

[yellow_belly 227]

30 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

assume the details will be released online a few days prior to the post arriving?

I assume we will hear something soon. I imagine that the price will stay the same?!

[essex canary 523]

22 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Afraid I don't understand that answer. You were referring to season ticket prices and have quoted something irrelevant and unfactual about casual ticket prices. This is what you said:

I suspect the Clubs season ticket charges are now comparatively much higher relative to other clubs now relative to then.

The prose is a bit convoluted but what it boils down to is a claim that our season ticket prices have risen more than those of other clubs. We were in the top flight in 1986-87 and so were Arsenal, Spurs, Watford, Man Utd, Southampton, Newcastle, Leicester City, Man City and Aston Villa, who are all in the top flight this season.

What you are saying is that, just as a rough example, that if back in 1986-87 our prices were roughly level with those of Watford, a bit lower - say 15 per cent -  than those of Southampton, and markedly less - say 40 per cent - than those at Spurs, then we have now caught up or narrowed the gap.

So our prices are now higher than Watford's, level or even a touch above those of Southampton, and only 20 per cent below Spurs' prices. I stress these figures are purely to illustrate the point you claim. Again,  I have no idea, but you were the one who made the claim so you need to justify it.

My quote was 'I suspect' so I don't think I need to 'justify' anything.

Without boring the pants off everyone I think there is evidence.

Some of the issues are more subtle than the headline adult season ticket price. For instance concession prices limited to certain parts of the ground only whereas other Clubs offers tend to be more extensive. A narrower dispersal of prices for graded matches than at many other clubs.

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Same ticket season before last (our last in EPL) would have been £30.00 as they were capped at that. 

The away tickets were capped at £30.

The club decided to price the home tickets at £30

“We believe as a football club that we have phenomenal support and we shouldn’t price people out of football”, said the chief operating officer, Ben Kensell. “So we decided that if £30 is fair for away supporters, then £30 is also fair for home supporters considering the price of a home ticket the last time we were in the Premier League.

“No one in the ground from a general admission perspective next season will pay more than £30. That, as a club, sets us apart and we’re really proud of that. We think it’s the right thing to do.”

[Greavsy 2,515]

4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The away tickets were capped at £30.

The club decided to price the home tickets at £30

“We believe as a football club that we have phenomenal support and we shouldn’t price people out of football”, said the chief operating officer, Ben Kensell. “So we decided that if £30 is fair for away supporters, then £30 is also fair for home supporters considering the price of a home ticket the last time we were in the Premier League.

“No one in the ground from a general admission perspective next season will pay more than £30. That, as a club, sets us apart and we’re really proud of that. We think it’s the right thing to do.”

Agreed - sorry should have been clearer in my post - however for some reason it wasnt the right thing to do this season!  

hence im expecting an increase. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Greavsy

[Thumbbass 327]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That's 24.6% then, inflation over the past 8 years of price freezes.

That's not how it works. But bless your heart for trying.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 minutes ago, Thumbbass said:

That's not how it works. But bless your heart for trying.

Oh right, I'll let the Bank of England know that their RPI inflation calculator is wrong them, point them in the direction of a post by some bloke on a football forum.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[nutty nigel 7,716]

I think some bloke on a football forum would be a good addition to the panel on Question Time. Who's up first?

 

[Greavsy 2,515]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

I think some bloke on a football forum would be a good addition to the panel on Question Time. Who's up first?

 

QT, next week coming live from The Nelson? 

[nutty nigel 7,716]

Is it still Robin Day?

[Greavsy 2,515]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Is it still Robin Day?

Wednesday! 

[nutty nigel 7,716]

They'll win this weekend.

 

[Greavsy 2,515]

6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

They'll win this weekend.

 

Hope so - given they are up against the binners. 

[Commonsense 695]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

Few years ago wasn't it? Four or five?

Nine years ago, I believe.

[Feedthewolf 4,982]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

Thanks for that but woud be good if our fans representatives could confirm that

Hope you had a nice holiday, Tilly. I don't know where that date has come from, it's news to me. I have been told that the announcement will be made by the end of January (which I've said elsewhere). When the forms etc. will be posted I have no idea.

[Greavsy 2,515]

5 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Hope you had a nice holiday, Tilly. I don't know where that date has come from, it's news to me. I have been told that the announcement will be made by the end of January (which I've said elsewhere). When the forms etc. will be posted I have no idea.

Any idea on those minutes Wolfie? Its been almost a week

[Thumbbass 327]

28 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Oh right, I'll let the Bank of England know that their RPI inflation calculator is wrong them, point them in the direction of a post by some bloke on a football forum.

 

The irony. Actually your assumption is that a season ticket holder has been in place for 8 years. If you became a season ticket holder 2 (or probably 3-4) years ago a 9% rise would indeed be out of kilter. So you are incorrect in that sense. 

[Feedthewolf 4,982]

1 minute ago, Greavsy said:

Any idea on those minutes Wolfie? Its been almost a week

I said they would be published this week, and I see no reason to change that. They've been written and circulated, we're just ironing out minor details before they're signed off by all parties.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

30 minutes ago, Thumbbass said:

If you became a season ticket holder 2 (or probably 3-4) years ago a 9% rise would indeed be out of kilter. 

Need to remember that this is a season ticket for games to be played between August 2022 and May 2023.

Inflation in early 2022 is projected to be higher than it was in late 2021.

9% is only out of kilter for those who purchased 2 years ago if you are only considering the inflation over those 2 years in isolation (which saw two price freezes), when in fact you are committing to purchase a season ticket for a period of time in the future, inflation is expected to run at 6.1% for Q1 2022, and your season ticket can be paid interest free over a 12 month period.... when is first payment taken?

Why would the club only be pricing in this seasons inflation when pricing up next seasons tickets, it is going to be paying next seasons energy bills (potentially double?) and the next financial years increase in the national living wage isn't it. 

Love the way our fans stroke their willies at the thought of us being a self-financed self-sufficient club, without a wealthy financial backer, but then throw tantrums when that means that the huge increase in the electric bill to keep the lights on at colney and the floodlights working on a Tuesday night in December at home to Wigan is going to be passed on to the fans somehow.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten