Calm down guys

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

4 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

It’s not what sport or supporting a Football club is about is it. It’s what Delia & co have turned us into and many of our fans appear completely brainwashed. 

Absolutely Jim.. depressing. Removed all hope of winning anything of note.. I mean even the Chase era delivered Europe and a top 3 finish.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,407]

1 hour ago, Foxy2600 said:

   10 hours ago,  Jim Smith said: 

The club don’t care about staying up. They just need to dip into the premier league riches often enough to pay for a few more years of running the club rather than the owners have to put anything in. 

From a business point of view what is wrong with that?

Well, as has been expressed in not so many words previously on PinkUn ....... what is the end game? Endlessly keep yo-yoing, winning a Trophy every other year-upholding the monicker Top 26? If we are unable to secure enough funds either to keep the likes of Emi or replace like-for-like and are doomed for relegation next year, can I at least have something tangible to keep my interest....a Cup Run perhaps? 

Someone once said about failure - ‘Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome’ Maybe we have reached our level ? 

 

 

 

This is it in a nutshell. We have great owners who love the club dearly and have given their all to help us. But they have now taken us as far as they can- that much is very obvious. The way forward becomes obvious.

1. we stick with this. A well managed club but with limited ambition. This means accepting that we train up players for better teams and sell gems once they become able to take us forward due to lack of funds. It means accepting relegation each time we go up and our hope is to survive if lucky. 
 

2. new owners are found to help us take the next step so that we can actually fund it. Plenty of teams like palace, Southampton, villa have done this in recent years. But we seem to thin it is not possible in Norwich for some reason. 
 

obvoiusly it is out of our hands. But the truth is that the current ownership simply cannot afford to take us up and keep us there. They are not wealthy enough leaving us reliant on sales of our top talent to finance the club. A situation which means we can never afford to push the boat with wages and keep a Buendia. So as soon as we take the step forward we lurch two back again. Repeat and rinse 

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

8 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

This is it in a nutshell. We have great owners who love the club dearly and have given their all to help us. But they have now taken us as far as they can- that much is very obvious. The way forward becomes obvious.

1. we stick with this. A well managed club but with limited ambition. This means accepting that we train up players for better teams and sell gems once they become able to take us forward due to lack of funds. It means accepting relegation each time we go up and our hope is to survive if lucky. 
 

2. new owners are found to help us take the next step so that we can actually fund it. Plenty of teams like palace, Southampton, villa have done this in recent years. But we seem to thin it is not possible in Norwich for some reason. 
 

obvoiusly it is out of our hands. But the truth is that the current ownership simply cannot afford to take us up and keep us there. They are not wealthy enough leaving us reliant on sales of our top talent to finance the club. A situation which means we can never afford to push the boat with wages and keep a Buendia. So as soon as we take the step forward we lurch two back again. Repeat and rinse 

Spot on!

[Alex Moss 2,165]

2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

This is it in a nutshell. We have great owners who love the club dearly and have given their all to help us. But they have now taken us as far as they can- that much is very obvious. The way forward becomes obvious.

1. we stick with this. A well managed club but with limited ambition. This means accepting that we train up players for better teams and sell gems once they become able to take us forward due to lack of funds. It means accepting relegation each time we go up and our hope is to survive if lucky. 
 

2. new owners are found to help us take the next step so that we can actually fund it. Plenty of teams like palace, Southampton, villa have done this in recent years. But we seem to thin it is not possible in Norwich for some reason. 
 

obvoiusly it is out of our hands. But the truth is that the current ownership simply cannot afford to take us up and keep us there. They are not wealthy enough leaving us reliant on sales of our top talent to finance the club. A situation which means we can never afford to push the boat with wages and keep a Buendia. So as soon as we take the step forward we lurch two back again. Repeat and rinse 

Not being funny but you talk as if we’re the only club that hasn’t been bought out by the mega rich whilst giving a tiny example of those that have. To consider this properly, you can’t look at it as a super ambitious Norwich City fan, you need to look at it as a neutral with no real affinity for our club. And with that in mind, I don’t really see, as fantastic a club as we are, what the massive draw has been to invest in us over anyone else really, unless I’m missing something entirely?

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

1 minute ago, Alex Moss said:

Not being funny but you talk as if we’re the only club that hasn’t been bought out by the mega rich whilst giving a tiny example of those that have. To consider this properly, you can’t look at it as a super ambitious Norwich City fan, you need to look at it as a neutral with no real affinity for our club. And with that in mind, I don’t really see, as fantastic a club as we are, what the massive draw has been to invest in us over anyone else really, unless I’m missing something entirely?

Why Wolves, Leicester, Bournemouth, Fulham, Villa, Burnley?

[Alex Moss 2,165]

Just now, Kenny Foggo said:

Why Wolves, Leicester, Bournemouth, Fulham, Villa, Burnley?

Why not.... a million other clubs up and down the country?

[Alex Moss 2,165]

1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Why Wolves, Leicester, Bournemouth, Fulham, Villa, Burnley?

And to add to that, I’m not sure giving Championship sides Bournemouth and Fulham as examples is really strengthening your point.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

15 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Jeez, you definitely need a cup of green tea, Foggo. I don’t see anyone disagreeing with you in an insulting manner, you are getting wound up and taking things way too personally - in fairness the strongest reaction I saw fired back to you was in response to you perhaps being a little insulting yourself because you don’t like people who have a different viewpoint. 

No problem with differing views and will respond in the manner given.. someone questions if you're a City fan they get it back. Call you silly.. they get it back. Perfectly calm, just incredibly disappointed in the club going back on its no need to sell quotes and selling the best player we have had on the cheap. Haven't insulted anyone who is adult like in their responses. 

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

Not to mention, you can get a lot of super-rich owners who want to make money and asset-strip. Our "friends" down the road can complain about that one under Marcus Evans, and when a pension fund is a key part of the financing for the American takeover there, then they'll be wanting some cash returns pretty damn quick. You'll not find too many Arsenal or Man United fans being too pleased with their super-rich American owners either.

"Funding the next step" basically means getting someone else to cats-cradle the financial strings, often just out of the goodness of their own hearts. We've seen those sorts before. Jack Walker at Blackburn (where are they now?), Eddie Davies at Bolton (where are they now?), David Whelan at Wigan (where are they now?). Palace don't look too great with their litany of players on expiring contracts and Hodgson's retired, Wolves could be a struggling side now Nuno's ****ed off and Southampton really did look fragile during periods last season.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

2 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

And to add to that, I’m not sure giving Championship sides Bournemouth and Fulham as examples is really strengthening your point.

Didn't say they were.. the question was why anyone would invest in us.. my point is lots of clubs find it. Its the owners job to find the right investors and if they are that great...shouldn't be an issue

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not to mention, you can get a lot of super-rich owners who want to make money and asset-strip. Our "friends" down the road can complain about that one under Marcus Evans, and when a pension fund is a key part of the financing for the American takeover there, then they'll be wanting some cash returns pretty damn quick. You'll not find too many Arsenal or Man United fans being too pleased with their super-rich American owners either.

"Funding the next step" basically means getting someone else to cats-cradle the financial strings, often just out of the goodness of their own hearts. We've seen those sorts before. Jack Walker at Blackburn (where are they now?), Eddie Davies at Bolton (where are they now?), David Whelan at Wigan (where are they now?). Palace don't look too great with their litany of players on expiring contracts and Hodgson's retired, Wolves could be a struggling side now Nuno's ****ed off and Southampton really did look fragile during periods last season.

Its not one or the other, its not stupid rich owners or fantastic poor owners. The current model will not see us established in the top flight, like Palace etc. So some sort of cash flow is needed to take us forward imo. 

[Peanuts 150]

1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

No problem with differing views and will respond in the manner given.. someone questions if you're a City fan they get it back. Call you silly.. they get it back. Perfectly calm, just incredibly disappointed in the club going back on its no need to sell quotes and selling the best player we have had on the cheap. Haven't insulted anyone who is adult like in their responses. 

I interpreted the "no need to sell" stuff from Webber as we don't need to sell to balance the books or keep the club afloat, not that nobody would be sold. We don't know what has gone on behind the scenes but if Buendia was pushing for a move then getting him out the door early for a record fee was probably the best option. In theory the club could have told him no and insisted he fulfilled his contract but in practice that rarely seems to happen if the player wants to move.

 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

2 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

No problem with differing views and will respond in the manner given.. someone questions if you're a City fan they get it back. Call you silly.. they get it back. Perfectly calm, just incredibly disappointed in the club going back on its no need to sell quotes and selling the best player we have had on the cheap. Haven't insulted anyone who is adult like in their responses. 

The thing is, what Webber’s said is true. We don’t need to sell anyone per se, in the sense we don’t need the cash. But it’s a different story entirely if a player is desperate to leave. You do accept Emi did not want to be here next season and that he wasn’t bombed out of the club against his will, don’t you? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Big headlines on the BBC football page about Emi but still nothing on the Club website.

Its not like its a secret.

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

Just now, Kenny Foggo said:

Its not one or the other, its not stupid rich owners or fantastic poor owners. The current model will not see us established in the top flight, like Palace etc. So some sort of cash flow is needed to take us forward imo. 

Never said it was so that appears to be a rather shaky dichotomy. I was merely saying that a wealthy backer is not remotely a nailed-on guarantee of success or indeed even long-term improvement (as the current positions of the likes of Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan et al make abundantly clear), and indeed that some will want a healthy return on their investment.

As for our model, Dortmund are pretty advanced at it. I think they do rather well, but it took time (and a larger base) to build it.

[Indy_Bones 442]

3 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

The thing is, what Webber’s said is true. We don’t need to sell anyone per se, in the sense we don’t need the cash. But it’s a different story entirely if a player is desperate to leave. You do accept Emi did not want to be here next season and that he wasn’t bombed out of the club against his will, don’t you? 

This

[Alex Moss 2,165]

2 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Its not one or the other, its not stupid rich owners or fantastic poor owners. The current model will not see us established in the top flight, like Palace etc. So some sort of cash flow is needed to take us forward imo. 

Ah but here’s the thing.

We don’t know it won’t work yet. In fact selling one player to bring in say hopefully two good ones for instance may just prove to be the way forward.

Our squad is way better than what it was when Farke and Webber took over. That suggests to me we’re very much heading in the right direction.

[shefcanary 2,496]

28 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

And to add to that, I’m not sure giving Championship sides Bournemouth and Fulham as examples is really strengthening your point.

And you could add Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Nottingham Forest to name a few more as well.  It's no panecea, and Norwich's ownership model is extremely complicated anyway (people seem to forget Smith & Jones only own 61%, what say the other 39% or 1500 people). 

Stick with the practical guys and look forward to who Webber brings in with money. 

Looking at glass half empty- Emi could have suffered an ACL injury in the first game next season with us and then where would we be - just like last EPL season.  At least this time we have two months to add to what is a better quality squad than last time.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

And you could add Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Nottingham Forest to name a few more as well.  It's no panecea, and Norwich's ownership model is extremely complicated anyway (people seem to forget Smith & Jones only own 61%, what say the other 39% or 1500 people). 

Stick with the practical guys and look forward to who Webber brings in with money. 

Looking at glass half empty- Emi could have suffered an ACL injury in the first game next season with us and then where would we be - just like last EPL season.  At least this time we have two months to add to what is a better quality squad than last time.

Spot on, Shef 👍. Emi will probably spend half of next season suspended once Tyrone Mings unravels all of Daniel Farke’s good work in training anyway 😉

[Ken Hairy 3,782]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

You tell me. Our first game with this "model":

Gunn; Franke, Zimmermann, Martin; Husband, Vrancic, Reed, Maddison, Wildschut; Jerome, Watkins.

Our 'standard' XI in the second half of this season:

Krul; Aarons, Hanley, Gibson, Giannoulis; Skipp, McLean, Buendia, Dowell, Cantwell; Pukki.

Which team do you prefer?

Out of reactions Wolfy ( why are we limited BTW??), but 100% this. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,407]

Stating that the board has taken us as far as they can always bring a similar response- not all clubs get rich owners, some owners asset strip and are awful etc etc 

That is all true but quite beside the point. The point I made is that this board cannot take us much further. So to keep them is to stay here- to change them is to roll a dice and take a risk. 
 

get the right new owners and we could totally become an established premiership side. Plenty of things make us attractive- unique colours, no competition in East Anglia, good history, bouyant business model, good academy etc 

 

get it wrong we get worse or continue to struggle to make the step up. 

sure - but none of what comes next changes the fact that this current board lack the funds to push us into the next level. Some are fine with that, others want to see a bit more ambition and feel it is time for a new hand on the tiller.

Seeing us sell Emi to a team we were level with two years ago because we have a wage ceiling that doesn’t attract premiership standard players or keep them gives force to the latter camp. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

1 hour ago, Peanuts said:

I interpreted the "no need to sell" stuff from Webber as we don't need to sell to balance the books or keep the club afloat, not that nobody would be sold. We don't know what has gone on behind the scenes but if Buendia was pushing for a move then getting him out the door early for a record fee was probably the best option. In theory the club could have told him no and insisted he fulfilled his contract but in practice that rarely seems to happen if the player wants to move.

 

Last year..had a strop...result.. Player of the season.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

1 hour ago, Alex Moss said:

The thing is, what Webber’s said is true. We don’t need to sell anyone per se, in the sense we don’t need the cash. But it’s a different story entirely if a player is desperate to leave. You do accept Emi did not want to be here next season and that he wasn’t bombed out of the club against his will, don’t you? 

Like last year... You know exactly the same thing was said.. remind me who was the championship player of the year? He had a long contract.. he could, as the evidence shows last year, stayed and been essential to our progress. If I was any of our other prospects, I'd be insisting on a move if it's as easy as you say. At other clubs it's not.

[Feedthewolf 4,901]

2 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Funny how the "we shall not criticise the owners" brigade dish out the "but we are real City fans".. you give it back and its insult central. Pathetic really... 

1. Since the "model" was instigated has the 1st team improved

2. Who paid for our new training facilities?

3. Are we getting left behind by Leicester, wolves, teams that are 100% the same as us

4. Do you really believe their is no investment out there and do you think Man City fans hate their owners?

I know you hate to see the model criticised but show me were the 1st team is stronger. Thats the plan.

Some people have tried to engage you in genuine debate, though, haven't they? But you tend to ignore those and hope nobody else notices.

I'll ask you again: which first XI do you prefer out of these two?

2017: Gunn; Franke, Zimmermann, Martin; Husband, Vrancic, Reed, Maddison, Wildschut; Jerome, Watkins.

2021: Krul; Aarons, Hanley, Gibson, Giannoulis; Skipp, McLean, Buendia, Dowell, Cantwell; Pukki.

If it's the second one, would you be prepared to concede that maybe the first team has improved? Come on, Kenny, play the game.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

8 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Some people have tried to engage you in genuine debate, though, haven't they? But you tend to ignore those and hope nobody else notices.

I'll ask you again: which first XI do you prefer out of these two?

2017: Gunn; Franke, Zimmermann, Martin; Husband, Vrancic, Reed, Maddison, Wildschut; Jerome, Watkins.

2021: Krul; Aarons, Hanley, Gibson, Giannoulis; Skipp, McLean, Buendia, Dowell, Cantwell; Pukki.

If it's the second one, would you be prepared to concede that maybe the first team has improved? Come on, Kenny, play the game.

To be fair the first year the team was poor and it improved 2018-2019. Not improved much since then.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Kenny Foggo

[Feedthewolf 4,901]

 

Just now, Kenny Foggo said:

As we stronger than when we went down. No.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. You appear to have not answered my question? You said the first team hadn't improved since the Webber/Farke model was instigated.

I showed you the 2017 first team and the 2021 first team, in direct response to your exact point. Could you try to answer the question again, perhaps?

[Peanuts 150]

43 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Last year..had a strop...result.. Player of the season.

Yes but nobody really knows the story there - were there even any genuine bids? Was a deal done with Emi for him to see out the season and then move on?

If the two situations are identical as you imply, what's your explanation for us selling him now and not then?

[Alex Moss 2,165]

11 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Like last year... You know exactly the same thing was said.. remind me who was the championship player of the year? He had a long contract.. he could, as the evidence shows last year, stayed and been essential to our progress. If I was any of our other prospects, I'd be insisting on a move if it's as easy as you say. At other clubs it's not.

Ha ha, I’ve been polite but I do think you deserve a stronger reply now. You have to be one completely delusional geezer if you think Norwich City are the only club that sells on a player once they’ve made it known they blatantly don’t want to be at said club.

So, I will ask you again -

You do accept Emi did not want to be here next season and that he wasn’t bombed out of the club against his will, don’t you?

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

Ps Buendia is a villa player so that 2021 side misses a create spark. £33m to Villa...absolute joke

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

10 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Ha ha, I’ve been polite but I do think you deserve a stronger reply now. You have to be one completely delusional geezer if you think Norwich City are the only club that sells on a player once they’ve made it known they blatantly don’t want to be at said club.

So, I will ask you again -

You do accept Emi did not want to be here next season and that he wasn’t bombed out of the club against his will, don’t you?

 

You are one deluded geezer, if you think our current owners are the best we can get..pal!

I think he was under contract and would have played as he did this year. You have your answer how move on.cheers.