When will the UK rejoin the EU?

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

Although it is very kind (unusually so) of Jools to start a threat about rejoining the EU, and clearly it is something that is playing on his mind as even the Brexit voting half of the population are starting to wake up to what a disaster Brexit has already been and is going to be in the future given Johnson's two appalling deals.

But being a bit of a cynic, and mildly observant, I suspect the only reason he has started it is so that he can play his very childish games such as changing its title if people take it seriously.

So better to have a thread on which Jools' input is limited to his standard diet of very stupid copy and paste postings - that apparently is his alienable right and seemingly the only thing he is actually capable of.

[Daz Sparks 1,154]

15 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

very kind (unusually so) of Jools to start a threat

This sums him up well.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Daz Sparks

[Daz Sparks 1,154]

Agreed CM.

 

[The Real Buh 3,432]

Talking about the EU is already politically cancerous. People are DONE with it. The general election proved that. No party will talk about it because if they do their ratings will plummet across the board. The new angle for political attack will be the handling of the pandemic. Get the net, slowcoach.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Looking at the deal, we aren't out of it.

[Herman 9,764]

For once Buh writes a modicum of sense. As it is we are decades away from even thinking of rejoining as a full member and I don't think any political party will talk about it. But as economic reality hits, as people find traveling and doing business with our neighbours more restricted there will be a lot more talk of opt-ins and more negotiating. Heading towards a Norway style agreement will be our first step forwards.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Talking about the EU is already politically cancerous. People are DONE with it. The general election proved that. No party will talk about it because if they do their ratings will plummet across the board. The new angle for political attack will be the handling of the pandemic. Get the net, slowcoach.

I think you'll find you're quite wrong, and as far as angles of political attack are concerned I'd say the pandemic is an ongoing one rather than a new one but in any case why do you imagine that the Tories opponents, i.e. every other political party in the country, are going to stick with only one angle of attack.

This obnoxious and utterly incompetent Government has provided its opponents with multiple angles of attack - the pandemic, the economy, Brexit, climate emergency, child poverty and multiple other social injustices are just a few that come to mind, before we even get round to considering the break up of the United Kingdom.

If you think the pandemic is the only issue over which they are going to be battered for the next four years then I'd suggest that it you that is the slowcoach.

[sonyc 5,517]

I could be persuaded to move just a few more miles north to Scotland if they ever get the opportunity to join the EU under their own steam (I'm of the view it will forge an even stronger independence campaign).... and if they (and I) are allowed in! But that will take years.

Family have Irish joint nationality so they remain Europeans. It does leave me with some decisions on what to do I must say.

Agree with Herman about gradual opt-ins ahead. Cannot see a reunion with the EU for a long time.

Though Brexit is a big event, the split of the union will be massive in comparison. Wasn't it made in the 1700s? Cameron has such a lot to answer for. In the far distance future, his political recklessness and the reasons for his decision, will be an interesting exam subject. Danny Dyer had him right.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

For once Buh writes a modicum of sense. As it is we are decades away from even thinking of rejoining as a full member and I don't think any political party will talk about it. But as economic reality hits, as people find traveling and doing business with our neighbours more restricted there will be a lot more talk of opt-ins and more negotiating. Heading towards a Norway style agreement will be our first step forwards.

I think you'll find some political parties will talk about it, probably not for a little while but certainly within this Parliament - the SNP and Greens for sure, several in NI as well, and whilst you probably know more about the Lib Dems than I do I wouldn't be in least surprised if they do as well, as the economic damage from Brexit really hits hard.

But I agree it won't be a single step back to full membership, it will be a series of smaller steps and Norway is the obvious model to follow - as indeed it always was following the vote 😃

The other big factor in timing though will be the extent to which the UK fragments - there used to much talk about a multi-speed EU but what we seem to be looking at now is a multi-speed UK - it probably will be decades before England rejoins the EU but I reckon an independent Scotland and NI re-unified with the South could manage it within a decade(ish).

[The Real Buh 3,432]

21 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I think you'll find you're quite wrong, and as far as angles of political attack are concerned I'd say the pandemic is an ongoing one rather than a new one but in any case why do you imagine that the Tories opponents, i.e. every other political party in the country, are going to stick with only one angle of attack.

This obnoxious and utterly incompetent Government has provided its opponents with multiple angles of attack - the pandemic, the economy, Brexit, climate emergency, child poverty and multiple other social injustices are just a few that come to mind, before we even get round to considering the break up of the United Kingdom.

If you think the pandemic is the only issue over which they are going to be battered for the next four years then I'd suggest that it you that is the slowcoach.

They’ll win the next election 

[Bill 1,788]

4 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Talking about the EU is already politically cancerous. People are DONE with it. The general election proved that. No party will talk about it because if they do their ratings will plummet across the board. The new angle for political attack will be the handling of the pandemic. Get the net, slowcoach.

apart from you, it would seem

[Herman 9,764]

46 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I think you'll find some political parties will talk about it, probably not for a little while but certainly within this Parliament - the SNP and Greens for sure, several in NI as well, and whilst you probably know more about the Lib Dems than I do I wouldn't be in least surprised if they do as well, as the economic damage from Brexit really hits hard.

But I agree it won't be a single step back to full membership, it will be a series of smaller steps and Norway is the obvious model to follow - as indeed it always was following the vote 😃

The other big factor in timing though will be the extent to which the UK fragments - there used to much talk about a multi-speed EU but what we seem to be looking at now is a multi-speed UK - it probably will be decades before England rejoins the EU but I reckon an independent Scotland and NI re-unified with the South could manage it within a decade(ish).

Fair points.I guess the SNP will talk about it as part of their independence push. Not sure any in NI will talk about it as they currently have the best deal out of everyone and Sinn Fein can see their dreams getting ever closer. Even I have given up on what the Libdems say, (got too close to how Ipswich fans feel😀), but I am sure they will go for a softly,softly approach.

[Bill 1,788]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Looking at the deal, we aren't out of it.

are you saying a no  UK arbitration will still sort out disputes, the UK is still paying the EU, folk from the EU can wander into the UK as they please, the EU controls the borders and in fact now has one inside the UK,

you'll be telling us next that there are to be umpteen EU committees deciding on how close the UK remains over the following years

still. the UK has gained total control over it’s fishing areas as from Jan 1st 😆

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Fair points.I guess the SNP will talk about it as part of their independence push. Not sure any in NI will talk about it as they currently have the best deal out of everyone and Sinn Fein can see their dreams getting ever closer. Even I have given up on what the Libdems say, (got too cyou exported live stock ro the EU via the UKlose to how Ipswich fans feel😀), but I am sure they will go for a softly,softly approach.

not if you are an inhabitant of NI

not if you are a haulier

not if you exported to the EU via the UK, and these problems and others will increase as this nonsense impacts further as time rolls on

and as to there being some best deal for NI

"Sinn Féin, the SDLP, the Alliance Party and the NI Greens oppose Brexit, while the DUP and TUV supported Brexit but rejected the withdrawal agreement reached last year.

The Ulster Unionists campaigned against Brexit but later accepted the referendum result, however the party also opposed the NI Protocol.

The unionist parties argue that the creation of an Irish Sea border through the deal poses a risk to the future of the union."

[The Real Buh 3,432]

12 minutes ago, Bill said:

apart from you, it would seem

Oh, you got me with the old switchy-switchy oh-ho. That was a good one. Do you want to compare the amount of my time I’ve wasted on here arguing about brexit on a Norwich city football Internet forum to the amount of time you’ve wasted on here?

Time you’ll never get back. You could have done anything with it. But you didn’t.

You hung around on this regional football club message board and argued about Britain leaving the European Union and Donald bloody Trump. was it worth the sacrifice? Do you feel like a winner?

I’ll talk about what I want to talk about. You are literally going to do sit there and do nothing about it. Difference is I’ll leave and do something productive in a minute, something worthwhile, and you’ll still be here.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

22 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I could be persuaded to move just a few more miles north to Scotland if they ever get the opportunity to join the EU under their own steam (I'm of the view it will forge an even stronger independence campaign).... and if they (and I) are allowed in! But that will take years.

 

You read my mind @sonyc  😃

I'm only a couple of hours or so drive away from Scotland -  I assume you are much the same, and whilst Scotland isn't Yorkshire it has some nice spots quite close to the border, plus you are a lot closer to the really nice bits of Scotland and still within fairly easy reach of all the best bits of northern England 😃

I think the pandemic on top of Brexit itself has stymied my plan to secure the right to reside in France and although I have seen suggestions that depending upon the nature of the deal they might extend the period for applications into 2021 I'm not pinning any real hopes on that, so a move north is certainly something I've been giving serious consideration to - a bit of a pain but worth it to regain my rights as an EU citizen.

But no need to rush, let's see if Nicola Sturgeon sweeps the board next May as expected................

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Oh, you got me with the old switchy-switchy oh-ho. That was a good one. Do you want to compare the amount of my time I’ve wasted on here arguing about brexit on a Norwich city football Internet forum to the amount of time you’ve wasted on here?

Time you’ll never get back. You could have done anything with it. But you didn’t.

You hung around on this regional football club message board and argued about Britain leaving the European Union and Donald bloody Trump. was it worth the sacrifice? Do you feel like a winner?

I’ll talk about what I want to talk about. You are literally going to do sit there and do nothing about it. Difference is I’ll leave and do something productive in a minute, something worthwhile, and you’ll still be here.

oh dear, seems those few words have hit a raw nerve

nothing funnier than an angry righty, though 😊

[sonyc 5,517]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

You read my mind @sonyc  😃

I'm only a couple of hours or so drive away from Scotland -  I assume you are much the same, and whilst Scotland isn't Yorkshire it has some nice spots quite close to the border, plus you are a lot closer to the really nice bits of Scotland and still within fairly easy reach of all the best bits of northern England 😃

I think the pandemic on top of Brexit itself has stymied my plan to secure the right to reside in France and although I have seen suggestions that depending upon the nature of the deal they might extend the period for applications into 2021 I'm not pinning any real hopes on that, so a move north is certainly something I've been giving serious consideration to - a bit of a pain but worth it to regain my rights as an EU citizen.

But no need to rush, let's see if Nicola Sturgeon sweeps the board next May as expected................

Then you think very much the same. Like you, I've considered a French residency but then it's complex with the amount of time one spends there. Likewise, Ireland (via the missus) and living for a couple of years and then apply. Then, Scotland which is closest. I like the country and increasingly, it's politics.

I would be able to be European if Wales went independent. Yet that won't happen, even though the pandemic has reminded them strongly about how the English are! 

I am quite serious in saying all this. Some big decisions ahead. I had felt like a return to Norwich too. That feels further away. All depends on other factors (family, money of course) but these are less of a barrier at my time of life.

I was dreaming of being an "associate" via the Guy Verhofstadt plan but I've heard nothing since it was mooted.

I love being English in lots of ways, so much to be thankful for. Yet I've found myself increasingly dispirited with much of the politics. It just isn't me! That said, I'm probably a bit weird (then aren't we all) because I don't seem to feel like I fit in.

This Brexit thing has been very important to me and my sense of identity. I would never have come onto a forum like this to discuss it say three years ago. I take things in deeply and quite seriously. So you'll imagine how much I've been affected by Johnson et al. I'm not alone either. My wife and boys feel much the same (possibly with not so much a deep conviction than me though).

Oh well. For now you have to find other meanings and things to enjoy and not just feel stifled by the sh1t show. I actually agree with Buh....re. "plenty of stuff to do". Then, it is helpful to share your thoughts with others.

Maybe lockdown has forced me to share more and be a bit more sociable on social media too.

I was very much about keeping the UK together (those ideas of cooperation again etc). I'm now feeling that I hope they can self -determine. If nothing else because, if I was Scottish, I would be voting so!

Ps. Where I live is very beautiful, stone walls, moors, ... right nearby on the doorstep. Nothing much wrong with the north either.

Edited December 28, 2020 by sonyc

[cambridgeshire canary 6,717]

At least a decade or two and only if the party in power arent the tories.

 

No way In hell would I ever see the Tories allowing a vote to rejoin.

 

Then again given brexit took five years and split this country in half and I'm sure everyone would not want a repeat-

 

Does anyone really want another brexit debate for another five whatever years?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

oh dear, seems those few words have hit a raw nerve

nothing funnier than an angry righty, though 😊

Well his leftie will be a bit sore after he does something he calls productive.

[Bill 1,788]

Given the mess Johnson has served up there will be hauliers, fishermen, farmers, students, the financial world etc who will have no choice but to 'debate' this

Care homes and the NHS short of staff

Higher costs, delay and red tape at ports for both goods and passengers

And this without knowing what further horrors lie within this 'deal

..........................it has barely begun, I can assure you

 

[Barbe bleu 826]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

oh dear, seems those few words have hit a raw nerve

nothing funnier than an angry righty, though 😊

For all his faults he is quite funny though.  Probably the funniest character on here.

[sonyc 5,517]

29 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

For all his faults he is quite funny though.  Probably the funniest character on here.

Certainly according to his own political compass thread, he is the most right wing (and yet left of centre) and most authoritarian. Perhaps those toward the right are the funniest BB?

[The Real Buh 3,432]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Certainly according to his own political compass thread, he is the most right wing (and yet left of centre) and most authoritarian. Perhaps those toward the right are the funniest BB?

Not particularly authoritarian at all actually

[Bill 1,788]

32 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

For all his faults he is quite funny though.  Probably the funniest character on here.

I dunno, your constant contradictions - and muddling up with RTB do provide regular amusement

personally I prefer Swindo, as he is not pretending to be a rightwing idiot as with yourself

he really is a rightwing idiot

[sonyc 5,517]

Just now, The Real Buh said:

Not particularly authoritarian at all actually

No you're not. But of the results people who took the time to complete you were the "most". I might be wrong and you'll tell me if so. 

We need variety of opinion so no bother by me btw.

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

What we all have to remember is that within 5 years Scotland will almost certainly be breaking away and NI looking to unify with Eire.

So what will England look like in 5 years?  The old Brexiters will be passing and the young and economically active go-getters will be ever more impatient living in a self isolating globally constrained twee tourist attraction. The 1970s English disease and the brain drain will have returned.

So yes, our coming of age tantrums will have burnt themselves out and we will be looking to rejoin the 21st century.

[BigFish 1,986]

17 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

What we all have to remember is that within 5 years Scotland will almost certainly be breaking away and NI looking to unify with Eire.

So what will England look like in 5 years?  The old Brexiters will be passing and the young and economically active go-getters will be ever more impatient living in a self isolating globally constrained twee tourist attraction. The 1970s English disease and the brain drain will have returned.

So yes, our coming of age tantrums will have burnt themselves out and we will be looking to rejoin the 21st century.

Probably within five years the UK will be looking to join EFTA or the EEA in order to take full advantage of the Single Market. After the 2016 result we had to leave, but support for that decision is ebbing away. It will be very much a minority interest by the end of the decade.

[sonyc 5,517]

21 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

What we all have to remember is that within 5 years Scotland will almost certainly be breaking away and NI looking to unify with Eire.

So what will England look like in 5 years?  The old Brexiters will be passing and the young and economically active go-getters will be ever more impatient living in a self isolating globally constrained twee tourist attraction. The 1970s English disease and the brain drain will have returned.

So yes, our coming of age tantrums will have burnt themselves out and we will be looking to rejoin the 21st century.

That's about my take. Yet I hadn't thought about the brain drain. It's already been happening that folk have moved in a few sectors. You can see the financial sector move from London to give an example.

Climate change too will be a bigger agenda in 5 years. 

[Barbe bleu 826]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Certainly according to his own political compass thread, he is the most right wing (and yet left of centre) and most authoritarian. Perhaps those toward the right are the funniest BB?

I guess most people would characterise the professional comedy circuit as 'left wing so I dont think so.

I think its the playfulness that amuses the most, or perhaps the contrast with the rest of us who attempt the comedy but fall flat on our faces