Player recruitment post Brexit

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

Do you mean the EU that people voted for MEPs last year, with a better, more democratic system of voting than our own. The EU that doesn't have an unelected system like the Lords, which is getting stuffed full of Johnson cronies. Do you remember a geezer called Dominic Cummings? Please do a bit of research on how the EU and our own country are run before spouting stuff about democracy.

MEPs can not and do not make laws.

EU commissioners are not elected by you or I.

Dominic Cummings is a convenient media bogey man. He's just an introverted Tory version of Alistair Campbell. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[kirku 1,334]

12 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

But are you really that close minded that you can't perhaps see how opportunities to migrate to the UK are somewhat limited due to EU migration?

If a firm wanted an office based software engineer, and they had applications from Germany, France, Lithuania, and India. They employ one of the three people who doesn't need to go through a work permit application. 

So access to an unlimited pool of European talent has meant fewer opportunities for talent further afield, even from our historic commonwealth connections like Canadians and Australians. 

The current system, the one you support, is highly discriminatory and I would argue on racial lines. Free movement is racist, remainers are racist.

The government has had full control over non-EU immigration. If it wished to remove the need for your hypothetical Indian software engineer to obtain a work permit, then it could've done. Your example is simply one of the government choosing to limit "opportunities for talent further afield" and has nothing to do with the EU.

All trading blocs are a form of protectionism, as will any trade deals be that we do now, they will give away some "sovereignty" for a mutually agreeable set of rules designed to benefit both economies. By signing them we will be discriminating against countries that don't have trade deals, or have less far reaching ones.

So what are your views on the WTO, the UN and NATO? Should we be members? How democratic are they? 

[The Real Buh 3,452]

Told you...

you have to put them on that containment board and locked away. It’s the only way.

[Herman 9,815]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

MEPs can not and do not make laws.

EU commissioners are not elected by you or I.

Stopped reading there.

You're a tiresome poster aren't you.

MEPs do make laws, bring laws forward or reject laws.

Commisioners are indirectly elected by us through our electing of our own politicians.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

The great thing about all of this is that we won, the game is over. 

It's a bit like being a Norwich fan in a room full of Ipswich fans I suppose, them harking back to the good old days when they lived their political dream for 23 years. 

And with each passing year it becomes a little bit more embarressing as they become increasingly irrelevant to us, but they become increasingly embittered. We live rent free in their heads as they replay previous years over and over again to see where they went wrong, only they can't ever quite accept that they caused this problem themselves. They can only ever move forward once, upon reflection, if they accept what they did wrong and acknowledge the reasons behind their rivals success. 

Those left behind by globalisation voted leave, and it's apparent that remainers think the answer is more globalisation. 

The Lib Dems were the clear "cancel Brexit" party, and they won 11 seats. Down from 57 in 2010. 

Your politics failed. Aloof intellectually snobbery caused this. Shame all your remainers didn't put this much effort into campaigning and arguing before the vote, you know.... When it mattered. 

It's bloody brilliant. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

21 minutes ago, Herman said:

MEPs do make laws, bring laws forward or reject laws.

Wrong.

[Herman 9,815]

Right.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-parliament/en/powers-and-procedures/legislative-powers

 

The irony of Brexiter using Ipswich as an example isn't lost on us either.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Herman

[Newtopia 518]

Brexit - i hate it - I do not get why we are doing it, and I’ve spent 5 years watching it ripe the country apart.  I really hope it is worth it, and ultimately people are happier.

[kirku 1,334]

44 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The great thing about all of this is that we won, the game is over. 

Run out of arguments for your position, I see.

People were sold an impossible lie and we're going to see irreparable economic damage and a profound loss of freedom.

Your "winning" is a defeat for the whole country when it is at its most vulnerable in generations.

The parralels with Trumpism run deep..

Edited December 2, 2020 by kirku

[ron obvious 1,514]

1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Quite right. And why I'm adamantly opposed to the current incarnations of the Republican and Conservative parties; who like all extremists wrap themselves in the flag of their country while happily destroying the foundations of our democratic institutions. Dictats from the top are not the way we run our countries, we fought several wars against people like that over the centuries. 

The Tories are extreme?? Wrapping themselves in the flag? In many ways they are now to the left of the revolutionary Soviet governments of the early 20th C; Lenin believed if you could work, but didn't, then you should starve.

Edited December 2, 2020 by ron obvious

[kirku 1,334]

[ron obvious 1,514]

13 minutes ago, kirku said:

Run out of arguments for your position, I see.

People were sold an impossible lie and we're going to see irreparable economic damage and a profound loss of freedom.

Your "winning" is a defeat for the whole country when it is at its most vulnerable in generations.

The parralels with Trumpism run deep..

Economic damage may or may not happen. Covid has demonstrated that economics has finally gone Through The Looking Glass completely.

Why a profound loss of freedom?

[Bill 1,788]

11 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Lenin believed if you could work, but didn't, then you should starve.

Lenin wrote for the Daily Mail, that's a new one ?

[kirku 1,334]

5 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Economic damage may or may not happen. Covid has demonstrated that economics has finally gone Through The Looking Glass completely.

Why a profound loss of freedom?

Economic damage is a certainty - it has already happened.

We have all lost the right to live, work, and do business freely in 27 countries.

Edited December 2, 2020 by kirku

[ron obvious 1,514]

Just now, kirku said:

Economic damage is a certainty.

We have all lost the right to live, work, and do business freely in 27 countries.

The right perhaps, but not necessarily the reality. It's more complex than that. 

I suspect we'll do progressively less business with the EU. But that's only my suspicion.

[sonyc 5,541]

13 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Economic damage may or may not happen. Covid has demonstrated that economics has finally gone Through The Looking Glass completely.

Why a profound loss of freedom?

A point made by the Newsnight reporter was interesting. Covid has battered so much of the retail, hospitality, travel industries whilst manufacturing and many service sector industries have flourished (the FTSE performance supports this). Yet after Brexit it's the sectors that have been resilient that will more likely take the hit. Therefore, you have damage to more sectors cumulatively.

[kirku 1,334]

8 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

The right perhaps, but not necessarily the reality. It's more complex than that. 

I suspect we'll do progressively less business with the EU. But that's only my suspicion.

So you agree that we've lost a huge amount of freedom, given that's what rights are.

Have a look at economic gravity and realise how diminished the economy will be if we do less business with the EU.

It's economic self-sabotage, plain and simple.

[ron obvious 1,514]

2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

A point made by the Newsnight reporter was interesting. Covid has battered so much of the retail, hospitality, travel industries whilst manufacturing and many service sector industries have flourished (the FTSE performance supports this). Yet after Brexit it's the sectors that have been resilient that will more likely take the hit. Therefore, you have damage to more sectors cumulatively.

I find it difficult to do any proper analysis of economics nowadays, even approximately. It's always been subject to events, dear boy, & the eye-watering amounts we are now willing to borrow destroy any forecasts.

[ron obvious 1,514]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

So you agree that we've lost a huge amount of freedom, given that's what rights are.

Have a look at economic gravity and realise how diminished the economy will be if we do less business with the EU.

It's economic self-sabotage, plain and simple.

See above. And ultimately people determine economics; how did post WWI Germany ever manage to recover?

[sonyc 5,541]

"I find it difficult to do any proper analysis of economics nowadays, even approximately. It's always been subject to events, dear boy, & the eye-watering amounts we are now willing to borrow destroy any forecasts"

 

That's fair enough. The magic money tree has not only been found but a whole forest. Arguments will abound for years and years about what has affected the economy the worst...Brexit v Covid (and having just typed this, that's a match to avoid!)

[kirku 1,334]

5 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

See above. And ultimately people determine economics; how did post WWI Germany ever manage to recover?

A punitive debt that took nearly 100 years to repay, resulted in genocide, global conflict, fascism, a split nation, and culminating in an EEC/EU supported recovery?

Right

[ron obvious 1,514]

Yeah right

 

https://www.history.com/news/germany-world-war-i-debt-treaty-versailles

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

57 minutes ago, kirku said:

and we're going to see irreparable economic damage and a profound loss of freedom.

I didn't realise we were talking about lockdown.

[The Real Buh 3,452]

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

5 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

I remember them 😀

[kick it off 1,952]

40 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

See above. And ultimately people determine economics; how did post WWI Germany ever manage to recover?

10 years of misery and hyperinflation?

I dont fancy that tbh.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

Run out of arguments for your position, I see.

We won the argument at the only time it mattered, and you hate yourselves for that. You hate yourselves for not door knocking, not telephone canvassing, not leafleting, not donating, for not having these arguments and debates in the months before the vote. Its no good trying to start them after the event. 

Its laughable really that remain donations from the general public were a fraction of those raised by leave, and that the number of people volunteering to campaign was minuscule compared to the number who volunteered for leave.

You were suddenly all flush with money to throw at efforts to subvert democracy after the vote, and you all seem to have had endless amounts of time to dedicate to arguing in the four years that have passed, and a million managed to don a t-shirt and wave a banner when it didn't matter anymore.

You need to face up to the fact that remainers lost the election, it was their own complacency, their own laziness, their own arrogance which lost the vote. When you look yourselves in the mirror and accept that fact, rather than to blame a bus or whatever else it is that you wish to cling on to avoid hating yourselves for this, leavers might respect you enough to engage in pointless arguments.

The remain campaign must rank in the top 3 worst political campaigns in British electoral history, although the same remainers did surpass themselves when throwing their weight behind Jo Swinson.

It would be much better for your own wellbeing if you entered into a period of deep reflection, look inwards at yourself and ask yourself a simple question "Did I do enough?". Then accept that you didn't, you didn't do anything, and you regret that. Its the only way you will be able to let go.

Us leavers can all see that you are hurting and that you project accordingly, picking pointless fights on internet forums to win dopamine hits, to make you feel slightly better about yourselves for 30 seconds; it makes you feel much better about yourselves to blame that red bus. Its easier than accepting the culpability for doing nothing, like you should, and having to go through the subsequent healing process.

I'm sorry that you lost Kirku, but perhaps next time you'll have a go at fighting for what you believe in? 

Edited December 2, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[kirku 1,334]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Us leavers can all see that you are hurting and that you project accordingly..

This is the most hilariously delusional part of all that drivel - read what you posted and then talk about projection?

Even by your notoriously low standards, it takes the biscuit. You're an abrasively obnoxious moron, always have been, always will be.

Edited December 2, 2020 by kirku

[Ian 1,132]

5 hours ago, Herman said:

Commisioners are indirectly elected by us through our electing of our own politicians.

I think the combination of the pandemic and the absolute mismanagement of Brexit is going to bring economic pain that hasn't been experienced in the UK for some time.

That said, the above quote is really not a great argument is it? It would be more reasonable to accept that the EU does have weaknesses that should be worked on rather than trying to pretend that they are anything other than a political construct.

[Herman 9,815]

Fair point Ian. My point, not well portrayed, is that the EU is no less democratic than the UK and to still use a lack of democracy after all these years is a very weak argument.