New Tory Leader

[Barbe bleu 832]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

No you're not. You're simply being dishonest and ignoring all the available evidence because it shows your party is bent as a nine bob note. As per usual. 

In what way am I being dishonest and ignoring evidence?  I've not even given an opinion.   

Sonyc is quite open that he comes here to read like minded opinion and to get comfort from that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that but I am built differently and I want a different thing from a regional football forum-  I like to challenge things.

Maybe it's my professional training that makes me inclined to ignore my first opinion as probably flawed (unconscious bias is very real) and to then drill down. 

The twitter style social media frustrates me immensely; It's generally propaganda for clicks but here there is an opportunity to use the absolute commitment of some posters on here to really examine stuff.  

 

[A Load of Squit 5,222]

47 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

It's 519 paragraphs so I wouldnt be bothered to do it but to make your case stronger you could go through the judgment and highlight parts that make your case for you. 

We are all going to agree that the judge would have broken the case down into a series of questions,  heard evidence from all sides, assessed it systematically and given a highly intelligent analysis without fear or favour. 

This judgment should be golddust for the debate.

 

We don't need 519 paragraphs we have the single statement '£40 million profit, nothing delivered' to tell us it's a scandal.

 

[Nuff Said 5,178]

Nuff said.

The total picture portrayed by the stats is awful, but this is probably the worst

 

[sonyc 5,541]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

In what way am I being dishonest and ignoring evidence?  I've not even given an opinion.   

Sonyc is quite open that he comes here to read like minded opinion and to get comfort from that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that but I am built differently and I want a different thing from a regional football forum-  I like to challenge things.

Maybe it's my professional training that makes me inclined to ignore my first opinion as probably flawed (unconscious bias is very real) and to then drill down. 

The twitter style social media frustrates me immensely; It's generally propaganda for clicks but here there is an opportunity to use the absolute commitment of some posters on here to really examine stuff.  

 

And yet, that is NOT quite what I posted was it? I acknowledged that people like to share world views but my big point was to have independence of mind and to be curious and uncertain. I've quoted the extract below.

So you've spoken about your professional experience - but maybe you could be a bit more honest? Or at least proof read?

 

"I think that's fair enough. We do mostly seek out what chimes for us and it is about knowing there are people out there with a similar world view. That we are not alone essentially.This gives us a certain comfort. The thing is to have enough independence of mind to still not believe our take. To retain uncertainty, or a level of openness, a simple curiosity. If we can get to that point, nothing someone else says quite upsets us as much"

Edited December 19, 2023 by sonyc

[Barbe bleu 832]

36 minutes ago, sonyc said:

And yet, that is NOT quite what I posted was it? I acknowledged that people like to share world views but ...

The post wasn't really about you, iff it were i qould probably have said something more fully formed. You, or rather this aspect of you, were the illustration that some, a lot of, perhaps most or all, people enjoy consuming things that they know they are already going to agree with.   We all do it, we go go the twitter accounts that we know push out a certain narrative; we 'doom scroll' looking for evidence that 'our side' is winning and we internally highlight that whilst downplaying the data we don't really want to see.

It's not a criticism of you that you do this or anyone else that does it.  Elsewhere I do it. Its probably evolutionary and irresistible.

But I come on here specifially to challenge others, challenge myself, refine my thinking and my understanding.  You do that too, that's cool but that doesn't make the first part untrue.  You can get more than one thing out of a single action. I still enjoy the fix of reading things i know im going to agree with, im not pretending im some form of superior being, but i go elsewhere for that hit.

Herman feels that I am locked in a fight on here, always defending what the pink un consensus is attacking.   I don't see it that way.  Challenge is not necessarily defence,  the ability to survive robust challenge is the hallmark of any useful attack and testing an attack can make it more effective. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[dylanisabaddog 5,010]

All you need to know 

https://twitter.com/squeezyjohn/status/1737052550912750070?t=kaqc4ePSMzWgE-ozi0Skdw&s=19

[Herman 9,836]

Bye bye Bone. Such a nice man so a shame.🤣

[Well b back 3,281]

They just f****** lie about everything.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67759768

[sonyc 5,541]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

They just f****** lie about everything.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67759768

Yep. I read this account too of his pledges. Same source.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67752738.amp

And here is an interesting graph about one of his pledges.

Who cares about the nation's health? 

[sonyc 5,541]

9 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

The post wasn't really about you

Well your second paragraph starts off with the following...

11 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Sonyc is quite open that he comes here to read like minded opinion and to get comfort from that.

So I think I conclude that it actually it was about me. Really. Just the same as it would have been about you had I have replied to another poster and used you as the example.

Worst thing though is that the point you've made about my comment was misconstrued - almost to mean the opposite (but not quite). No wonder other posters question your obfuscation about certain events connected to the Tories. The only conclusion to make is that you are less neutral than you might claim. 

Your comment was further in a reply to Herman. It wasn't even a direct response. I was used for you to make a point about dishonesty and that you were "built differently" to me. Again, to me it's a back handed insult. But no doubt you'll say to me to calm down. And yet there is no need to because I'm cool about whatever you think. I don't mind if you think you are superior because you like to challenge (you probably are). I do however reserve the chance to point out an angle on a subject that I believe has been falsely represented. A comment that has been made in black and white and in print. It feels quite patronising.

Honest feedback anyway. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by sonyc

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

Penny Mordaunt: Boris Johnson’s messages vanished from my phone

Penny Mordaunt has told the Covid inquiry that a series of WhatsApp messages with Boris Johnson mysteriously disappeared from her phone, and that Johnson’s then chief of staff ignored 14 attempts by her to arrange a meeting to discuss the matter.

[sonyc 5,541]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Penny Mordaunt: Boris Johnson’s messages vanished from my phone

Penny Mordaunt has told the Covid inquiry that a series of WhatsApp messages with Boris Johnson mysteriously disappeared from her phone, and that Johnson’s then chief of staff ignored 14 attempts by her to arrange a meeting to discuss the matter.

It might usually be a big lead story...potential cyber tampering etc. apparently there is a way to delete it but it requires significant effort. And this story doesn't fit with the statements Johnson made does it? No answer either for Mordaunt after 14 requests, apart from a suggestion it would cost £1000 a day to investigate.

Her question was a concern about shielding of care home residents. In February 2020.

 

[horsefly 4,318]

On 19/12/2023 at 15:13, dylanisabaddog said:

All you need to know 

https://twitter.com/squeezyjohn/status/1737052550912750070?t=kaqc4ePSMzWgE-ozi0Skdw&s=19

Yep! That story has been repeated several times. Established PPE providers with many years of experience unable to get any response from the government despite persistent efforts. And yet pals of Tory MPs with no experience at all in provision of PPE equipment handed multi-million contracts without due diligence, often acting as nothing more than a middle-man. Utterly scandalous.

Interesting to note that Gove has today pretty much thrown Mone under the bus, claiming he wants to see a speedy prosecution. One can only assume he is denying that she ever let him know that Medpro was a company owned by her husband 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gove-hopes-criminal-case-will-be-brought-against-mone-in-ppe-scandal/ar-AA1lK9UA?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=48654336fcd0474f86ec19345bc938de&ei=40

[Herman 9,836]

Lads in the north look away now.😬

 

[Well b back 3,281]

A good piece here about AI in the next election. Jools will be in his element

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67518511

[sonyc 5,541]

6 minutes ago, Well b back said:

A good piece here about AI in the next election. Jools will be in his element

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67518511

I have entertained the idea that the likes of Jools are AI accounts.

A few things he used to post just never felt to have a base in reality. Rather, an intention of aim of being contrarian.

Edited December 21, 2023 by sonyc

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

In the interests of balance I think we can all accept this decision by the otherwise criminally hopeless Tory government is unarguably a good thing:

Yesterday was a bit of a nightmare for many people trying to travel by rail. But at least for our hedgehog friends, the Department for Transport has some good news.  The DfT has shown a good understanding of what makes an appropriate story for the news drought over Christmas and announced changes to road signage rules to better protect small animals.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,197]

Boris was a wasted talent

Assuming that this isn't ghost written, a career of this sort of stuff would have been fine. Something like a Private Eye column. Or Viz. Anywhere without any responsibility or influence would have sufficed.

As for the most asked questions, I would have thought the top 2 would be:

1 - Why?

2 - How?

[sonyc 5,541]

On 18/12/2023 at 14:53, dylanisabaddog said:

Every week I swap my left wing Sunday paper with my neighbour who reads The Sunday Times. 

This week The Times has an article about the forthcoming election. It claims that the Tories are going to launch an all out attack on Starmer because he defended some horrible people during his legal career. They have been told to shut up about Savile because the really extreme right wingers will do that for them. 

My God, 2024 is going to be worse than 2023.

When I think of who reads which paper I often think of this series. All those years ago and so much still feels relevant about our country...

 

[Nuff Said 5,178]

7 minutes ago, sonyc said:

When I think of who reads which paper I often think of this series. All those years ago and so much still feels relevant about our country...

 

Plus ca change. Funny how some programmes don’t really become out of date. Or maybe it’s that UK government doesn’t change?

 

Although actually fewer and fewer people read newspapers at all, I feel like a dinosaur with my weekend paper.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Nuff Said

[dylanisabaddog 5,010]

12 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Plus ca change. Funny how some programmes don’t really become out of date. Or maybe it’s that UK government doesn’t change?

 

Although actually fewer and fewer people read newspapers at all, I feel like a dinosaur with my weekend paper.

What is really noticeable is the decline of the EDP. Twenty years ago when my kids did deliveries there were more EDP's than all the other papers put together. Now it's close to the end. 

[sonyc 5,541]

22 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Plus ca change. Funny how some programmes don’t really become out of date. Or maybe it’s that UK government doesn’t change?

 

Although actually fewer and fewer people read newspapers at all, I feel like a dinosaur with my weekend paper.

I think it's closer to the truth now that a lot of people don't really care who runs the country, let alone the Sun readers in that clip. A few people I know living around me are not bothered by politics. They are friendly enough folk.  Yet, through occasional passing conversations you'll hear that all politicians of any government are liars, all of local government is just the "clowncil". A lot of individualist positions without a real care for wider society - except it is okay to complain at how things are! I guess if you live a life purely 'local' then your horizons are narrower. Further, you don't give to charity because you think they're all "on the take". 

It's why left of centre parties have a hard time because (unlike some Scandinavian societies) we are not characterised so much by collectivism.... 'no such thing as society'. Everything has become brutalised through austerity. There is less capacity to reflect because it's more about stress and survival. 

[Nuff Said 5,178]

16 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I think it's closer to the truth now that a lot of people don't really care who runs the country, let alone the Sun readers in that clip. A few people I know living around me are not bothered by politics. They are friendly enough folk.  Yet, through occasional passing conversations you'll hear that all politicians of any government are liars, all of local government is just the "clowncil". A lot of individualist positions without a real care for wider society - except it is okay to complain at how things are! I guess if you live a life purely 'local' then your horizons are narrower. Further, you don't give to charity because you think they're all "on the take". 

It's why left of centre parties have a hard time because (unlike some Scandinavian societies) we are not characterised so much by collectivism.... 'no such thing as society'. Everything has become brutalised through austerity. There is less capacity to reflect because it's more about stress and survival. 

Very true. Having recently spent some time with local politicians (not just Labour) and Labour Party members, I didn’t meet anyone who was spending a considerable amount of their free time for anything other than the good of their local society. The worst you could accuse them of was tribalism and maybe for some, a bit of ego boosting. That’s not to say there aren’t plenty of politicians at every level who have at least partly selfish motivations, but the “they’re all in it for themselves” stuff gets my back up even more now, it’s just a smokescreen excuse for “I can’t be bothered”.

 

[horsefly 4,318]

https://todaysconveyancer.co.uk/40-billion-worth-uk-property-owned-companies-offshore-tax-havens-study/

[Well b back 3,281]

Another one lets slip how they really feel about us

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67813689

[Well b back 3,281]

If this is correct, I guess that will finish any lingering doubts about wether the Tories can stay in power

Reform UK to challenge Tories in every seat at general election

Nigel Farage’s fringe party pledges threatens to split the vote in election

[Barbe bleu 832]

On 23/12/2023 at 11:03, Nuff Said said:

Although actually fewer and fewer people read newspapers at all, I feel like a dinosaur with my weekend paper.

Going on the tube in the smoke would be an eye opener for you.   Years ago rush hour carriages would have loads of papers, the free one or the one people brought with them and you'd have to get up early to get a fresh copy of the Metro. Its not like that at all now - phones all the way instead. 

In my view casual readership of papers is very probably dead, with the twitching corpse kept going only by the ritualists and the odd few that are attracted by a particular headline

 

[Herman 9,836]

They still have a massive amount of power in setting the news agenda for the day. They're dying as a format but still mighty.

[A Load of Squit 5,222]

 Moron calls moron a moron.

 

[dylanisabaddog 5,010]

Be afraid! 

https://news.sky.com/story/dominic-cummings-says-rishi-sunak-sought-secret-deal-with-him-to-win-election-13039874