New Tory Leader

[horsefly 4,318]

41 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Looks like I could end up being right...🤩

I suspect the 1922 are desperately formulating a way to keep voting limited to MPs only. In which case one would think Sunak is well ahead among that group. If they do risk junking another leader the case for a GE becomes overwhelming. I'm not sure we have had such a farcical turnover of leaders since the first ten years of George III's reign. No doubt Rees-Bogg cropped up there too to reassure the voting public (all ten of them) that everything was fine.

Finally, I understand there is no truth to the rumour that Tory MPs have been contacting Extinction Rebellion to protest on their behalf.

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

I think we now need the Benny Hill theme tune going permanently in the background whenever any reporters talk or interview Truss or any of the Tory's on the TV or radio. Just so we all know it's a comedy and not serious. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Yellow Fever
Credit to VW for the Truss ear worm. Wonder if Webber could do a better job ?

[Well b back 3,283]

What has she said now ? The FTSE has just crashed again 85 points in 10 minutes

[Well b back 3,283]

Don’t know why it would bring the markets down again, but according to the news I just heard there are talks currently going on in Downing Street to withdraw parts of the mini budget

[sonyc 5,541]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

While some might call me a dinosaur because of my left wing beliefs, its about time they realised that I wouldn't have the same beliefs if things were fairer and more equal. If that were achieved, I would automatically shift to the centre.

That's my position in a nutshell too. If we had a fairer, more equable (?) society or you're always moving towards those goals through public policy, then you get the conditions for unity. Having a completely fair society even for an idealist like me, is impossible. But we ought not have the disparity in life chances purely because of where you were born. And I realise some people escape. There are multiple barriers to overcome of course for many parts of society that serve to prevent social mobility. It's having progressive social and economic policies that help.

As for the dinosaur comment, I don't think you are one at all. You might well argue that your time hasn't yet come.

We need some kind of new political paradigm. I think that's the word. There are so many populist leaders in the world at the moment - and this current UK government incarnation is part of it. At some stage that 'movement' must reach a nadir, a low point.

Edited October 13, 2022 by sonyc

[Well b back 3,283]

F*** me it’s fast approaching 6700, 110 point drop in minutes

[Well b back 3,283]

At the same time the pound is climbing lol

[sonyc 5,541]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

F*** me it’s fast approaching 6700, 110 point drop in minutes

I think it's because of rumours of a recession coming to surface. Plus the pound is expected to continue to fall to parity with the dollar some time in November according to some observers. 

 

 

Edit: also the Friday deadline of bond support ending may also be playing out in the market.

I wonder whether the 31st October OBR meeting, even though brought forward, will be a bit late.

Edited October 13, 2022 by sonyc

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

 

I think we are now well beyond any new Tory leader being in office as PM with any agenda at all. Nobody would stand for it. Truss has trashed any such notions totally. New mandate required.

It has to be a caretaker that will calm the markets and act responsibly in the nation interests. Sunak is the man.

The so called Tory party can then split or reinvent itself whilst out of office for generation or three. 

It's just annoying that for the second time now the Tories have hit the self-destruct button and Labour have someone completely uninspiring in charge who, whilst being a marked improvement on Conservative rule, won't entertain the radical changes the country needs. It'll be the status quo with a bit of tinkering around the edges, just as it was with Blair. 

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

16 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I think it's because of rumours of a recession coming to surface. Plus the pound is expected to continue to fall to parity with the dollar some time in November according to some observers. 

 

 

Edit: also the Friday deadline of bond support ending may also be playing out in the market.

I wonder whether the 31st October OBR meeting, even though brought forward, will be a bit late.

All in play SC - the markets actually love volatility and even better when the BoE or whatever plays 'dare' as of this Friday coming.

I think they are also now playing dare with Truss now - will she stay or go, in, out , shake it all about....  

Cue Benny Hill again -

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[BigFish 1,988]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

While the Left and Labour  have been told for so many years that their notion of running the country is out of date and reflects and earlier age, its about time the Tories accepted that their doctrine is from an even earlier age and is not fit for purpose anymore.

While some might call me a dinosaur because of my left wing beliefs, its about time they realised that I wouldn't have the same beliefs if things were fairer and more equal. If that were achieved, I would automatically shift to the centre. There wouldn't be a need for the left. Why are Unions in decline? Because of their success. It would be the same for politics and the workplace. An acknowledgement and acceptance that levelling up really is a brilliant idea and should be carried out would lead to consensus and not division.

Worth a look for an explanation of Trussonomics.......

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by BigFish

[Herman 9,838]

Bravermann is being sidelined by Truss, which is a good thing on her behalf. 

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

It's just annoying that for the second time now the Tories have hit the self-destruct button and Labour have someone completely uninspiring in charge who, whilst being a marked improvement on Conservative rule, won't entertain the radical changes the country needs. It'll be the status quo with a bit of tinkering around the edges, just as it was with Blair. 

SKS clearly has it called right.

Labour are on about 50% of the vote last time I looked - 25% plus ahead.

Almost impossible to do much better than that - after all there is always a rump 20% or who will vote for and old 'pig' with a blue rosette as they say. They are beyond redemption.

The reason SKS is so far ahead is that he looks competent and all the swing and increasingly thinking Tory voters are coming onboard. Of course SKS could appeal like Corbyn to only his rump 20% and and at best form a minority government. Don't think so. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[TheGunnShow 6,023]

At this rate Number 10 should be fitted with a freaking revolving door.

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

SKS clearly has it called right.

Labour are on about 50% of the vote last time I looked - 25% plus ahead.

Almost impossible to do much better than that - after all there is always a rump 20% or who will vote for and old 'pig' with a blue rosette as they say. They are beyond redemption.

The reason SKS is so far ahead is that he looks competent and all the swing and increasingly thinking Tory voters are coming onboard. Of course SKS could appeal like Corbyn to only his rump 20% and and at best form a minority government. Don't think so. 

With all due respect, I think that's garbage. Starmer has looked exactly the same when he was 25% as he does now they're 50% ahead.

If Norwich played poorly against Salhouse Rovers and won 25-0, it doesn't mean they performed better than if they played poorly and beat Port Vale 3-0. The opposition is what mattered.

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

With all due respect, I think that's garbage. Starmer has looked exactly the same when he was 25% as he does now they're 50% ahead.

If Norwich played poorly against Salhouse Rovers and won 25-0, it doesn't mean they performed better than if they played poorly and beat Port Vale 3-0. The opposition is what mattered.

I think you're just wrong. May was hopeless yet still beat Corbyn. Johnson knocked him out of sight. Cameron beat Miliband when he really had no right to do so.

SKS is simply playing a blinder and his strategy is clearly paying dividends whatever tantrums the Tories come up with (Johnson and now Truss). As they say you can only beat the team in front of you so make no mistakes. I want this s h i t shower of a Tory party gone and not an honourable failure as per Corbyn managed.

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think you're just wrong. May was hopeless yet still beat Corbyn. Johnson knocked him out of sight. Cameron beat Miliband when he really had no right to do so.

SKS is simply playing a blinder and his strategy is clearly paying dividends whatever tantrums the Tories come up with (Johnson and now Truss). As they say you can only beat the team in front of you so make no mistakes. I want this s h i t shower of a Tory party gone and not an honourable failure as per Corbyn managed.

If Starmer stuck to the 10 pledges he made in the leadership election, rather than duplicitously pretending to like them to win votes, then it wouldn't have taken Johnson getting p*ssed whilst we all locked down and the Tories nuking their economic credibility before he registered a poll lead.

It wouldn't have mattered whether Long-Bailey, Nandy or Starmer won the leadership election, any one of them would be sitting on a massive lead right now. The idea that he sat there behind Johnson in the polls thinking, "Don't worry, he'll be getting drunk during lockdown, get ousted and be replaced by a complete moron who will tank the economy" is for the birds.

He's a poor leader. But in the current political climate, poor leader is immeasurably better than the alternative.

[horsefly 4,318]

20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

With all due respect, I think that's garbage. Starmer has looked exactly the same when he was 25% as he does now they're 50% ahead.

If Norwich played poorly against Salhouse Rovers and won 25-0, it doesn't mean they performed better than if they played poorly and beat Port Vale 3-0. The opposition is what mattered.

That doesn't look good for Corbyn then. He was twice given the chance to defeat a Tory Party completely divided over Brexit and in disarray. To lose against a known liar and fraud with the worst performance by the Labour Party since 1935 is quite some failure.

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

Just now, canarydan23 said:

If Starmer stuck to the 10 pledges he made in the leadership election, rather than duplicitously pretending to like them to win votes, then it wouldn't have taken Johnson getting p*ssed whilst we all locked down and the Tories nuking their economic credibility before he registered a poll lead.

It wouldn't have mattered whether Long-Bailey, Nandy or Starmer won the leadership election, any one of them would be sitting on a massive lead right now. The idea that he sat there behind Johnson in the polls thinking, "Don't worry, he'll be getting drunk during lockdown, get ousted and be replaced by a complete moron who will tank the economy" is for the birds.

He's a poor leader. But in the current political climate, poor leader is immeasurably better than the alternative.

I think you're still wrong. SKS has simply made Labour electable again. That it's taken 2 years is quite remarkable considering where they were. Long-Bailey or Nandy and they'd still be at best neck and neck and an easy target with all the Tories needing to do is to look competent again in a couple of years. Just another Labour defeat.

You need to get on board.   

You sound very much like one if those anti Dean Smith types that pine for Farke oblivious of his failings in the EPL and that time has moved on. Dean is doing as well if not better by the way as any of us have any right to expect.

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

That doesn't look good for Corbyn then. He was twice given the chance to defeat a Tory Party completely divided over Brexit and in disarray. To lose against a known liar and fraud with the worst performance by the Labour Party since 1935 is quite some failure.

Exactly HF. 

[Herman 9,838]

1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

With all due respect, I think that's garbage. Starmer has looked exactly the same when he was 25% as he does now they're 50% ahead.

If Norwich played poorly against Salhouse Rovers and won 25-0, it doesn't mean they performed better than if they played poorly and beat Port Vale 3-0. The opposition is what mattered.

He's not the most exciting or radical but I feel the populace would be more that happy at a bit of boring stability. He's also a clever leader in that he doesn't give the powerful right wing press much ammunition, shutting down things quickly (Huq for example) and not allowing it to fester like Corbyn did.

I understand why the left doesn't like him,but as it is, you are far more likely to get your ideas heard with him in charge than you will with anybody else.

[Herman 9,838]

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

That doesn't look good for Corbyn then. He was twice given the chance to defeat a Tory Party completely divided over Brexit and in disarray. To lose against a known liar and fraud with the worst performance by the Labour Party since 1935 is quite some failure.

If you think the Tory Party and Boris' standing in 2019 was anything like it was earlier this year then I've about six bridges to sell you.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think you're still wrong. SKS has simply made Labour electable again. That it's taken 2 years is quite remarkable considering where they were. Long-Bailey or Nandy and they'd still be at best neck and neck and an easy target with all the Tories needing to do is to look competent again in a couple of years. Just another Labour defeat.

You need to get on board.   

You sound very much like one if those anti Dean Smith types that pine for Farke oblivious of his failings in the EPL and that time has moved on. Dean is doing as well if not better by the way as any of us have any right to expect.

That's a whole lot of wrong to get in in so few words. It's perversely impressive. 

[Daz Sparks 1,189]

Not looking good for Thick Lizzie, is it?

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

That's a whole lot of wrong to get in in so few words. It's perversely impressive. 

I think I'll have to sum you up as somebody who will willingly grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.

Both Deano and SKS are simply winning. What's not to like? Oh I forgot - it's not pure Farkeball or Left'ball'.  

[canarydan23 4,060]

51 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think I'll have to sum you up as somebody who will willingly grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.

Both Deano and SKS are simply winning. What's not to like? Oh I forgot - it's not pure Farkeball or Left'ball'.  

See, this is one of the big problems with politics. For too many people, they conflate it with sports and pander around terms like you just have, "defeat from the jaws of victory" and making meaningless comparisons with football managers like politics is some sort of sport and you want bragging rights over the other team. That may be what it's like for you, and to be honest, I'm fortunate enough in that whether Tories or Labour win the next general election, my personal situation won't change to the extent that it will have a drastic effect on my or my family's lives.

However, I do live on a council estate and for the majority of my neighbours government policy's can have a profound impact on their day to day lives. That's why I was so pro-Corbyn, because he had policies that would make a genuine positive difference to people I see every day. As a leader, he sucked, he was never the right man to be a poster boy for what was probably the best Labour manifesto I've seen in my lifetime. And it was a manifesto that opinion polling proved was highly popular.

However, people can't see past this politics as some sort of tribal game, none moreso than the Labour Right who sharpened their knives, and huge swathes of the general public went to the polling booth with personalities, not policies at the forefront of their minds.

And it's for the same reason why I'm particularly non-plussed about the next general election, assuming Truss is gone by then. A Morduant/Sunak-led Tory Party won't be hugely different to a Starmer-led Labour Party in the impact it will have on my local area. On a broader scale, Starmer is advocating for the status quo on our back-dated, broken and corruption-enabling political system. He's more than happy for corporations or foreign governments to be in charge of industries that people rely on in their daily lives, and in some cases rely on to not die. On a local level there is no mention of bringing back SureStart, surprising given it was one of the best things Blair's Labour introduced to the country, despite the fact that shutting it down devastated plenty of families around here. He takes funding from sketchy people live Trevor Chinn who advocates for low income taxes for the wealthy and defended the rich's use of loopholes to reduce their tax bills (something he was aware was dodgy because he refused to disclose the support his leadership campaign received from him until after he'd seized power).

I expect he's a lot like you; to him this is a game that he wants to win. Nothing else matters. In that respect, he's no different from Cameron or Johnson. Becoming Prime Minister is the goal and nothing else matters, even what he does once in power.

With brave policies he could have been ahead long before the never-ending Tory scandals. If you insist on analogising football and politics, Boris was beating him 2-0 right up until the end of 2021. Starmer hasn't change his leadership style, personality or strategy since then and now. The Tory Party just started scoring a series of own-goals, which has given Labour the lead.

That's great for you, you're likely to able to celebrate a win for your boys next time we're called to vote. But for the people that need proper, radical policies in order to improve their respective lots, or the people that hope to see a fair, democratic political system in our lifetime, the poll lead is about as relevant as which Z-lister will be announced for I'm a Celebrity first.

Edited October 13, 2022 by canarydan23

[TheGunnShow 6,023]

And all this is the side-effect of a gamed electoral model which is eighty years out of date, if not a century. The end game of ANY FPTP model is two monolithic big tents and often not much variation between them, unless we got what happened when Cameron resigned after losing Brexit and the ERG brigade became disproportionately powerful within the Tories.

Politics is always going to end up tribal under those circumstances.

[Herman 9,838]

 

[horsefly 4,318]

3 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

If you think the Tory Party and Boris' standing in 2019 was anything like it was earlier this year then I've about six bridges to sell you.

When, during a televised election debate with Corbyn, Johnson said that he thought the "truth was important" the whole audience burst into laughter. Johnson was also well known to be a liar and fraud long before 2019. It was a devastating indictment of Corbyn that he lost so appallingly to a man the population knew to be a liar but considered preferable to him. Best you put those bridges up for sale on ebay.

Edited October 13, 2022 by horsefly