New Tory Leader

[dylanisabaddog 4,947]

Interesting Opinium poll at the weekend. Mordaunt would add 1 point for the Tories. The other leading candidates to replace Sunak would actually do worse

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/23/swapping-tory-leader-labour-lead-bigger-poll-opinium

[Fen Canary 848]

38 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Interesting Opinium poll at the weekend. Mordaunt would add 1 point for the Tories. The other leading candidates to replace Sunak would actually do worse

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/23/swapping-tory-leader-labour-lead-bigger-poll-opinium

It’s rather irrelevant at the minute. People are so sick of the Tories they could put up Jesus himself as leader and they’d still lose heavily. They just need to take their kicking, see which MPs they have left and then decide what they actually want to be as a party because currently they don’t appear to stand for anything at all 

[TheRock 171]

Headlines this morning, Sunak says UK will leave the ECHR if Rwanda flights are legally blocked, and Tories win at the GE.

Leaving the ECHR is one of Reform Party's main policies. Talk about desperate.

Edited April 4 by TheRock

[Herman 9,793]

5 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

There is a popular misconception that Johnson is highly intelligent. That seems unlikely bearing in mind his educational achievements which were ordinary despite having the best and most expensive schooling available. It's worth watching the documentary 'The rise and fall of Boris Johnson' just to see his expression when asked about David Cameron's far superior academic results. 

I very much doubt he knowingly spied for Russia but he is hugely attracted by money and lacks judgment, particularly when it comes to the company that he keeps. The evidence may point to him being a Russian asset but the likelihood is that he's just plain stupid and completely out of his depth. 

I'm not sure why the media has any interest in him anymore. He won't be remotely interested in being an opposition MP and is probably finished as a politician. 

No, I wouldn't put him down as a spy but as someone with such a massive ego, self love and moral decay he could be easily be persuaded to do things that look great for his own career path, without once thinking about anyone else. 

Such a flawed individual would be a great asset, especially in a very high position. 

[Daz Sparks 1,159]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

No, I wouldn't put him down as a spy but as someone with such a massive ego, self love and moral decay he could be easily be persuaded to do things that look great for his own career path, without once thinking about anyone else. 

Such a flawed individual would be a great asset, especially in a very high position. 

I agree with this, and as previously mentioned, the recently aired documentary backs this up empirically and evidentially. I know this thread is still giving him air, but the sooner he sinks into obscurity, the better off this country and humanity in general will be. 

[horsefly 4,309]

On the same day Sunak called on Israel to act in accordance with international law, he  fulminated in an interview with Sun slob Harry Cole that the UK should not be subservient to some "foreign court", and should consider withdrawal from the ECHR. It was a lie of course, the European CONVENTION on Human Rights is fully integrated into UK domestic law. The fact that the physical court itself is based in Strasbourg is entirely irrelevant to the laws that hold of all those member nations who are signed up to the ECHR. The court itself is as much our court as any other court based in the UK, just as it is the case for every other ECHR member nation.

What has the ECHR done for us: https://x.com/TobiFrenzen/status/1625293800158420996?s=20

 

[Fen Canary 848]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

On the same day Sunak called on Israel to act in accordance with international law, he  fulminated in an interview with Sun slob Harry Cole that the UK should not be subservient to some "foreign court", and should consider withdrawal from the ECHR. It was a lie of course, the European CONVENTION on Human Rights is fully integrated into UK domestic law. The fact that the physical court itself is based in Strasbourg is entirely irrelevant to the laws that hold of all those member nations who are signed up to the ECHR. The court itself is as much our court as any other court based in the UK, just as it is the case for every other ECHR member nation.

What has the ECHR done for us: https://x.com/TobiFrenzen/status/1625293800158420996?s=20

 

The joys of parliament is that we can change our laws if they’re not having the desired effect or if the populace opinion has changed on the matter (homosexuality for instance). Our participation in the ECHR is voluntary and can be withdrawn at any time if the electorate feels it’s doing more harm than good and the downside now outweigh the good. Trying to compare it to the Geneva Convention and Israel killing aid workers and pushing 2 million people to the brink of starvation is rather tenuous. 

[Yellow Fever 3,804]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

The joys of parliament is that we can change our laws if they’re not having the desired effect or if the populace opinion has changed on the matter (homosexuality for instance). Our participation in the ECHR is voluntary and can be withdrawn at any time if the electorate feels it’s doing more harm than good and the downside now outweigh the good. Trying to compare it to the Geneva Convention and Israel killing aid workers and pushing 2 million people to the brink of starvation is rather tenuous. 

Of course we can withdraw - the problem is of course is it's written into a great many aspects of our laws, the NI 'treaty' and many others such as the EU trade deal. Add to that only Belarus and Russia are outside it in Europe!

Anyways - for all the obvious reasons leaving the ECHR is 'for the birds' (notice period 6 months too). It's just a dog whistle by a desperate Sunak.

Edited April 4 by Yellow Fever

[A Load of Squit 5,184]

Apart from everything, what's wrong with this? It's even funnier if you say it in a Jeremy Clarkson voice.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

10 hours ago, TheRock said:

Headlines this morning, Sunak says UK will leave the ECHR if Rwanda flights are legally blocked, and Tories win at the GE.

Leaving the ECHR is one of Reform Party's main policies. Talk about desperate.

There is massive frustration over this in Kent, and massive resentment of the fact that all of those making it in become first priority on housing.

I think the UK needs to give notice on the ECHR and also on the UN convention on refugees.

Lots of waving of hands in horror from the lawyers no doubt and no doubt negative short term diplomatic consequences, but the fact is that the provisions have allowed the weaponisation of refugees against Europe in general. Until these treaties collapse, there will never be progress on replacements that are fit for purpose. If the UK leaves, I'm sure many other countries will follow.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

39 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Of course we can withdraw - the problem is of course is it's written into a great many aspects of our laws, the NI 'treaty' and many others such as the EU trade deal. Add to that only Belarus and Russia are outside it in Europe!

Anyways - for all the obvious reasons leaving the EUCHR is 'for the birds' (notice period 6 months too). It's just a dog whistle by a desperate Sunak.

My understanding is that the UK would need an act of parliament to repeal the Human Rights act in order to leave ECHR 

I'm not sure Sunak would have the support in parliament to do  that 

[A Load of Squit 5,184]

17 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There is massive frustration over this in Kent, and massive resentment of the fact that all of those making it in become first priority on housing.

I think the UK needs to give notice on the ECHR and also on the UN convention on refugees.

Lots of waving of hands in horror from the lawyers no doubt and no doubt negative short term diplomatic consequences, but the fact is that the provisions have allowed the weaponisation of refugees against Europe in general. Until these treaties collapse, there will never be progress on replacements that are fit for purpose. If the UK leaves, I'm sure many other countries will follow.

Can you prove this?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

19 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

My understanding is that the UK would need an act of parliament to repeal the Human Rights act in order to leave ECHR 

I'm not sure Sunak would have the support in parliament to do  that 

I think that's probably true, but also think that attempting to do so before being kicked out would put an enormous amount of pressure on Labour to find a workable answer once in power.

[Herman 9,793]

15 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Can you prove this?

Seems to be one of those myths that the right wing are spreading at the moment. A good way to wind up people, with zero evidence to back up the claim, but one of those things that stick in people's heads.

[Fen Canary 848]

22 minutes ago, Herman said:

Seems to be one of those myths that the right wing are spreading at the moment. A good way to wind up people, with zero evidence to back up the claim, but one of those things that stick in people's heads.

Unless there’s vast numbers of homeless asylum seekers roaming the country then they must be being housed somewhere wouldn’t you agree? 

[Herman 9,793]

23 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Unless there’s vast numbers of homeless asylum seekers roaming the country then they must be being housed somewhere wouldn’t you agree? 

They're being dumped in hotels all over the country.

[Herman 9,793]

1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

Apart from everything, what's wrong with this? It's even funnier if you say it in a Jeremy Clarkson voice.

 

👀👀

 

[A Load of Squit 5,184]

36 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Unless there’s vast numbers of homeless asylum seekers roaming the country then they must be being housed somewhere wouldn’t you agree? 

Asylum seekers are housed in asylum centres like the one in Wethersfield in Essex & that ship off the south coast.

People who have been granted asylum are a different matter, they are given notice on their accommodation provided during the asylum process and then they get treated the same as any other homeless person looking to be housed.

 

[Fen Canary 848]

32 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Asylum seekers are housed in asylum centres like the one in Wethersfield in Essex & that ship off the south coast.

People who have been granted asylum are a different matter, they are given notice on their accommodation provided during the asylum process and then they get treated the same as any other homeless person looking to be housed.

 

So they do take council houses that otherwise would have gone to British citizens, at a time when we have a colossal shortage of them? And you genuinely can’t see why those that miss out are angry about this? 

[Herman 9,793]

8 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

So they do take council houses that otherwise would have gone to British citizens, at a time when we have a colossal shortage of them? And you genuinely can’t see why those that miss out are angry about this? 

"If you applied for asylum but have not yet received a final decision or you are waiting for the result of an appeal against a refusal of asylum, you cannot get an allocation of housing from the council, or get help if you are homeless.  You can't get universal credit or housing benefit to pay your rent.  You can apply direct to a housing association or for private rented accommodation, but in England where immigration checks apply you will not have the ’right to rent’ and landlords cannot accept you as a tenant. You can however stay with friends or family."

[Herman 9,793]

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,947]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There is massive frustration over this in Kent, and massive resentment of the fact that all of those making it in become first priority on housing.

I think the UK needs to give notice on the ECHR and also on the UN convention on refugees.

Lots of waving of hands in horror from the lawyers no doubt and no doubt negative short term diplomatic consequences, but the fact is that the provisions have allowed the weaponisation of refugees against Europe in general. Until these treaties collapse, there will never be progress on replacements that are fit for purpose. If the UK leaves, I'm sure many other countries will follow.

You want to leave the ECHR. The only European countries not signed up to the Council of Europe are Russia and Belarus. 

Were you also convinced that when Britain left the EU many others would follow? 

[Creative Midfielder 1,999]

9 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

So they do take council houses that otherwise would have gone to British citizens, at a time when we have a colossal shortage of them? And you genuinely can’t see why those that miss out are angry about this? 

Do we still have council houses, thought they had mostly been sold off.......

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

56 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

 

Were you also convinced that when Britain left the EU many others would follow? 

No.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

23 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Do we still have council houses, thought they had mostly been sold off.......

Yes, there is still some council housing. There's also housing being created for illegal immigrants that isn't being constructed for the existing population. I'm sure there are plenty of homeless British citizens who'd jump at the chance of a room on the Bibi Stockholm.

Edited April 5 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

"If you applied for asylum but have not yet received a final decision or you are waiting for the result of an appeal against a refusal of asylum, you cannot get an allocation of housing from the council, or get help if you are homeless.  You can't get universal credit or housing benefit to pay your rent.  You can apply direct to a housing association or for private rented accommodation, but in England where immigration checks apply you will not have the ’right to rent’ and landlords cannot accept you as a tenant. You can however stay with friends or family."

Tell that to the homeless guy I was chatting to in Gatwick airport just before he was moved on by the police.

They may not be allocated housing, but they have still have to be accommodated somewhere. There are no such rules for homeless British citizens.

Edited April 5 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

12 hours ago, Herman said:

Seems to be one of those myths that the right wing are spreading at the moment. A good way to wind up people, with zero evidence to back up the claim, but one of those things that stick in people's heads.

It's people like you who are the liars, pretending these problems don't exist because they're inconvenient to your blinkered demented wish to save the whole world outside of your own country as that falls apart.

Edited April 5 by littleyellowbirdie

[dylanisabaddog 4,947]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

No.

 

Then why on earth do you think others would follow if we left ECHR? They wouldn't. They'd just laugh at little England sinking slowly into oblivion. 

Migration is a world and european problem that needs a unified solution. Isolation is not the answer. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

7 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Then why on earth do you think others would follow if we left ECHR?

Because the two things aren't related. There is no trade element to it, there's no customs element to it. It stands on its own. And we do have the legal right to withdraw.

There will never be a solution until a solution is forced by the collapse of the existing situation, which is not fit for purpose. These people need to be returned to where they came from to stop this problem. That has to happen. The only way to do that is to identify the laws preventing it and to remove them.

Edited April 5 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,793]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It's people like you who are the liars, pretending these problems don't exist because they're inconvenient to your blinkered demented wish to save the whole world outside of your own country as that falls apart.

Nobody is pretending these issues don't exist. Stop making stuff up just to suit your agenda.