New Tory Leader

[horsefly 4,300]

5000 days of Tory rule

£380 million is the amount the National Debt has increased for EACH one of those days. 

Perhaps would should stick that statistic on the side of a bus.

https://x.com/carolvorders/status/1748075594292531481?s=20

Edited March 19 by horsefly

[Fen Canary 824]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Fair enough points. What really needs to happen though is that the care and health sectors need greater status / respect and thereby a greater professionalism (in terms of career paths) ought to follow and be better rewarded. It requires a national 'narrative' (and I hate that word) that care matters and is one of the most valuable careers to follow. That of course needs funding properly by government (and tax payer). Theresa May nearly started that move towards legislating around the edges (which at least was something) but it was quickly labelled a dementia tax. We can only hope the next administration develops a plan. 

We really ought not have to have a 'race to the bottom' and import the cheapest labour we can. That would include people coming into the country. We do need to check immigration but that is needed as part of a much broader industrial and skills strategy. Not just stopping the boats. I suppose we as a country dip into the agenda of points systems. Rather, it needs a long term solution. Neither of the two major parties appear to be tackling that holistically. Always, it's put on the back burner. 

Can’t argue with any of that. Due to our low birth rate we can import 60k people a year and our population will won’t increase. If we capped immigration numbers at around the 100k mark and prioritised healthcare workers, then made up the rest of highly skilled individuals who would earn well above the national average I don’t think you’d have too many complaints. As you say this needs to coincide with reform of our training for the healthcare sector to improve numbers coming through, as well improving the pay and working conditions of caters and the like.

Importing a million people a year with skills we don’t need is a fools errand, and the cynic in me would suggest it’s done solely to boost GDP and avoid technically going into a recession and generating bad headlines 

[Fen Canary 824]

https://thecritic.co.uk/torygeddon/

[horsefly 4,300]

Why wouldn't people think Rwanda is a safe country? After all, he won 99% of the vote in the last election, so he must be bloody brilliant.

https://x.com/Channel4News/status/1770181051173789925?s=20

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Heh, the costs of even sending one person to an unsafe country in Rwanda are looking terrible. Illegal, not cost-effective, and they're still desperately trying to be seen to "do something".

[Well b back 3,208]

What does Sunak say ‘ All you do is U Turns ‘ - So do yo matey

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68616330

[Herman 9,767]

The Lords are shredding the Rwanda bill. What a complete waste of time and money.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

The Lords are shredding the Rwanda bill. What a complete waste of time and money.

I still think the Rwanda bill is all about the journey not the destination. After all, much better from the Tory wing nut  viewpoint to be seen to claim its delayed / derailed by other parties than to pass it, fly a few at £600M to Rwanda and find it makes no difference to the small boats. All in time for the election. £600M spaffed against the wall.

That why they've all now gone home happy now for Easter. No urgency.

[Fen Canary 824]

6 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I still think the Rwanda bill is all about the journey not the destination. After all, much better from the Tory wing nut  viewpoint to be seen to claim its delayed / derailed by other parties than to pass it, fly a few at £600M to Rwanda and find it makes no difference to the small boats. All in time for the election. £600M spaffed against the wall.

That why they've all now gone home happy now for Easter. No urgency.

I’m more cynical, I think now it’s not in their interest to not fix it. They’ve already lost the election, may as well leave it festering and hope it blows up in Starmers face when he’s in power 

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

21 hours ago, horsefly said:

Why wouldn't people think Rwanda is a safe country? After all, he won 99% of the vote in the last election, so he must be bloody brilliant.

https://x.com/Channel4News/status/1770181051173789925?s=20

Even better than Putin! 

At the last court hearing the police and secret services confirmed there was a credible threat from the Rwandan Government to the lives of Rwandan dissidents who have escaped here. 

But I'm sure it's a safe place. Nothing to worry about at all. 🙄

The small boats problem is easily solved but only if the Government really wants to solve it. I'm sure the Government was planning to use it as an electoral issue but it's blown up in their faces with Reform taking the votes they were seeking. 

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

2 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m more cynical, I think now it’s not in their interest to not fix it. They’ve already lost the election, may as well leave it festering and hope it blows up in Starmers face when he’s in power 

 

33 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The small boats problem is easily solved but only if the Government really wants to solve it. I'm sure the Government was planning to use it as an electoral issue but it's blown up in their faces with Reform taking the votes they were seeking. 

I agree its a problem which isn't easy to simply solve but Rwanda just isn't the answer. All that appeals too is those that on ideological grounds want to seen to be doing something as opposed to actually making any tangible difference. That it costs £600M is outrageous.

Yes Labour will inherit the issue but should be able to take a cool informed rational look at the issues (as opposed to the irrational Tory right / Reform) and what can work and what won't (the Albanian return works for instance - similar deals to be done). Go after the boat providers and have a safe legal route (a queue if you like) for the asylum seekers in France - then you can come down hard on queue jumpers!

And of course for the longer term try and deal with the reasons people flee at source.

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

27 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

That it costs £600M is outrageous.

Go after the boat providers 

 

Go after the boat providers was suggested by Labour a long time ago. They are all in Turkey. £600m buys an awful lot of boats. 

The other Labour suggestion of paying the French to sort it out has been very successful, particularly the idea to put buoys across river estuaries. 

Stopping the wars in Yemen and Syria would help but we make a small fortune selling arms to Saudi Arabia. The Corporation Tax on the profits of those sales is enormous 

https://caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/uk-arms-to-saudi-arabia/

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

7 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Go after the boat providers was suggested by Labour a long time ago. They are all in Turkey. £600m buys an awful lot of boats. 

The other Labour suggestion of paying the French to sort it out has been very successful, particularly the idea to put buoys across river estuaries. 

Stopping the wars in Yemen and Syria would help but we make a small fortune selling arms to Saudi Arabia. The Corporation Tax on the profits of those sales is enormous 

https://caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/uk-arms-to-saudi-arabia/

Yes I know. Point is that there are simpler ways to disrupt this traffic.

Also - if there is a safe alternative route to have your UK claim heard in France surely why risk a dodgy (and expensive) illegal crossing?

Edited March 21 by Yellow Fever

[Barbe bleu 826]

12 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes I know. Point is that there are simpler ways to disrupt this traffic.

Also - if there is a safe alternative route to have your UK claim heard in France surely why risk a dodgy (and expensive) illegal crossing?

I don't think there are any easy answers to this. There are things that sound good but in reality won't work, or solve one problem and create another.

I don't think Rwanda is the right answer, but I'm increasingly of the opinion that it's the closest we have got to one yet.

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

The Minister for Common Sense has had her nose in the trough and is in a bit of bother, Will she resign?

I wonder how many more stories of this kind there are to come.

Last year McVey wrote in the Daily Mail that she did not want you to see a single penny of your hard-earned cash wasted on unnecessary public spending. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/21/esther-mcvey-expenses-flat-philip-davies

[sonyc 5,519]

25 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The Minister for Common Sense has had her nose in the trough and is in a bit of bother, Will she resign?

I wonder how many more stories of this kind there are to come.

Last year McVey wrote in the Daily Mail that she did not want you to see a single penny of your hard-earned cash wasted on unnecessary public spending. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/21/esther-mcvey-expenses-flat-philip-davies

Seen her a few times in a former job. Plus Davies used to be my MP before moving away. He is an 'interesting' fella. Can't find it now but X had a similar photo as this one from the Guardian here that had the caption:

"An example that two wrongs don't always make a right"

...which I thought was very sharp🙂

As someone else has suggested on X - as she is the Minister for Common Sense perhaps her best approach to this Dylan will be to say nowt?

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

On 22/03/2024 at 07:17, sonyc said:

Seen her a few times in a former job. Plus Davies used to be my MP before moving away. He is an 'interesting' fella. Can't find it now but X had a similar photo as this one from the Guardian here that had the caption:

"An example that two wrongs don't always make a right"

...which I thought was very sharp🙂

As someone else has suggested on X - as she is the Minister for Common Sense perhaps her best approach to this Dylan will be to say nowt?

Isn't it strange how the Tories seem to have cornered the market in thieving blondes! Just off the top of my head there's Mone, Dorries and this one. 

[sonyc 5,519]

49 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Isn't it strange how the Tories seem to have cornered the market in thieving blondes! Just off the top of my head there's Mone, Dorries and this one. 

She is a surprise to meet. She is really tiny in stature and then she has this really strong voice. They make an odd combination really but at the least it makes them interesting. I have never agreed with his views on so many things but on the couple of occasions I have asked him a question by email he replied immediately. In that respect he makes a diligent local MP. As for EM I do like her for her working class roots. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

New and more detailed opinion poll which highlights why the Tories have made a mistake concentrating on immigration 

Immigration and the election

When we do finally go to the polls later this year, will this be an ‘immigration election’? Only for a minority. Around half of Conservatives (53%) say the issue is important in deciding how they will vote in the coming election, but it still comes after after the NHS (57%) and cost of living (55%) as their third most important issue. For Labour voters immigration ranks 12^th in importance, with half as many saying it matters in deciding their vote (27%).

 

https://www.britishfuture.org/new-attitudes-tracker-2024/

[sonyc 5,519]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

New and more detailed opinion poll which highlights why the Tories have made a mistake concentrating on immigration 

Immigration and the election

When we do finally go to the polls later this year, will this be an ‘immigration election’? Only for a minority. Around half of Conservatives (53%) say the issue is important in deciding how they will vote in the coming election, but it still comes after after the NHS (57%) and cost of living (55%) as their third most important issue. For Labour voters immigration ranks 12^th in importance, with half as many saying it matters in deciding their vote (27%).

 

https://www.britishfuture.org/new-attitudes-tracker-2024/

The bread and butter real issues yes. It would be interesting to see what the geographic breakdown is though of that research into attitudes. Living in a leafy area where you never see anyone very different to you might affect you more than in other areas.

It's not a high ranking issue for me but is one that needs attention. Which is what Labour has said it will do. And looking at the record under Blair you get a sense of the success. There again, the boats issue has worsened. 

Edited March 25 by sonyc

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

The bread and butter real issues yes. It would be interesting to see what the geographic breakdown is though of that research into attitudes. Living in a leafy area where you never see anyone very different to you might affect you more than in other areas.

It's not a high ranking issue for me but is one that needs attention. Which is what Labour has said it will do. And looking at the record under Blair you get a sense of the success. There again, the boats issue has worsened. 

You are quite wonderful as I know from previous posts. Unfortunately, this matter has less to do with where you live and everything to do with what you are. 

[sonyc 5,519]

16 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

You are quite wonderful as I know from previous posts. Unfortunately, this matter has less to do with where you live and everything to do with what you are. 

I think you're right there too. There are some people who look down on others. Maybe youve had similar experiences to me where you feel like a fish out of water. Normally where people have a sense of over entitlement. I think there is a link to where you live though. Thete are places in North Yorkshire for example and I've been on holiday in Norfolk with young family where the holiday business has been run by 'London' types. They talk down to you. That was my point really - there is a connection.

Mrs S made a similar point about Stuart Webber and his comments. Her meaning being that somewhere close to the surface of his words was a definite sense that he could talk about such things as he was better. That there was no way he would ever have faced jail of course. Not Stuart. I thought it was a interesting take on the matter. 

Anyway, to finish my point, I don't actually mind what class or position people hold as long as they are not trying to be someone else, that they are open minded enough and generous in their time for another. Most people fall into cohort but there are ignorant people about. They cannot put themselves into others' shoes.

Edited March 26 by sonyc

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

11 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I think you're right there too. There are some people who look down on others. Maybe youve had similar experiences to me where you feel like a fish out of water. Normally where people have a sense of over entitlement. I think there is a link to where you live though. Thete are places in North Yorkshire for example and I've been on holiday in Norfolk with young family where the holiday business has been run by 'London' types. They talk down to you. That was my point really - there is a connection.

Mrs S made a similar point about Stuart Webber and his comments. Her meaning being that somewhere close to the surface of his words was a definite sense that he could talk about such things as he was better. That there was no way he would ever have faced jail of course. Not Stuart. I thought it was a interesting take on the matter. 

Anyway, to finish my point, I don't actually mind what class or position people hold as long as they are not trying to be someone else, that they are open minded enough and generous in their time for another. Most people fall into cohort but there are ignorant people about. They cannot put themselves into others' shoes.

As Tim Minchin once said, you should always judge people by how they treat the poorest least important person in the room. 

If you haven't seen this before I think you'd like it 

 

 

[TheRock 171]

Who thinks that Sunak may be out on his ear before Christmas?

Wouldn't be suprised if louder calls for him to go will resurface again in May if (when) the Tory vote is decimated at the Local Elections. The 1922 may want to try and obtain a new leader before a GE to limit the damage.

Edited March 27 by TheRock

[king canary 7,607]

Is there anything that sums up the unserious nature of the modern Tory party than this story?

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/tory-mp-fish-chip-shop-campaign-uxbridge-b2519577.html

An MP campaigning for his town to get a...chip shop? As if that is a government decision? Who is he going to deliver his petition to?

Of course it turns out that by signing his petition you're also signing up to receive messages from him and the Tory party making this a data gathering exercise disguised as local campaigning.

And the cherry on top...this MP was on the council and voted against an application to open a fish and chip shop in the town a few years ago.

[king canary 7,607]

4 hours ago, TheRock said:

Who thinks that Sunak may be out on his ear before Christmas?

Wouldn't be suprised if louder calls for him to go will resurface again in May if (when) the Tory vote is decimated at the Local Elections. The 1922 may want to try and obtain a new leader before a GE to limit the damage.

I think there were some recent polls that suggested this may actually make things worse- there is no standout candidate, anyone with a long term ambition to lead the party wouldn't want it because of having the stink of an election hammering attached to them.

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

9 hours ago, king canary said:

I think there were some recent polls that suggested this may actually make things worse- there is no standout candidate, anyone with a long term ambition to lead the party wouldn't want it because of having the stink of an election hammering attached to them.

You're quite right. It's alarming that there are any Tory MPs who think this would be a good idea. It would be the political equivalent of bringing in Neil Warnock with 8 games to go. 

I listened to a political commentator yesterday who explained why he thought the election would be in early October. Apparently the support for the Conservative Party in the 18-21 age group is currently around 1%. I thought this must be wrong but apparently not. So rather than working out why young people dislike them they will instead pick a date that makes it as hard as possible for students to vote. They see no problem with this because Boris did it and proved it works. 

So there we have it, one of our 2 major political parties has just about hit rock bottom. 

[Herman 9,767]

How clean are your rivers? My area isn't too bad, but getting worse. Norwich city isn't too good though.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2024/mar/27/englands-sewage-crisis-how-polluted-is-your-local-river-and-which-regions-are-worst-hit

[Fen Canary 824]

On 25/03/2024 at 23:59, dylanisabaddog said:

New and more detailed opinion poll which highlights why the Tories have made a mistake concentrating on immigration 

Immigration and the election

When we do finally go to the polls later this year, will this be an ‘immigration election’? Only for a minority. Around half of Conservatives (53%) say the issue is important in deciding how they will vote in the coming election, but it still comes after after the NHS (57%) and cost of living (55%) as their third most important issue. For Labour voters immigration ranks 12^th in importance, with half as many saying it matters in deciding their vote (27%).

 

https://www.britishfuture.org/new-attitudes-tracker-2024/

Just because the struggling economy and poorly performing NHS are currently more important issues for more voters, that doesn’t mean it’s wise to continue with our current immigration policies that a majority disagree with. The longer it appears that MPs are trying to brush the issue under the carpet, the more it will become an issue for the electorate. It’s causing a surge of support for many previously minor parties on the continent and violent protests in Ireland (ironically the country held up by many on here as an enlightened alternative to all those Leave voting Brits) so it’s not as if the major parties here can say they weren’t warned, although our FPTP does shield them more than their continental equivalents

 

On 26/03/2024 at 04:44, dylanisabaddog said:

You are quite wonderful as I know from previous posts. Unfortunately, this matter has less to do with where you live and everything to do with what you are. 

What do you mean by this? Are you implying that everybody who wants stricter immigration controls do so because of bigotry?

[dylanisabaddog 4,922]

3 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Just because the struggling economy and poorly performing NHS are currently more important issues for more voters, that doesn’t mean it’s wise to continue with our current immigration policies that a majority disagree with. 

 

You're really struggling with this aren't you? It's a concern to a minority of voters. 

I'm so sorry I touched a nerve with the other comnent🙄