New Tory Leader

[Well b back 3,267]

I see one notable Tory that obstained from the vote last night.

Did my MP vote For or Against calling for a ceasefire in Gaza?

Enter your postcode, or the name or constituency of your MP

Type in 2 or more characters for results.

Suella Braverman(Fareham, Conservative)

DID NOT VOTE

[sonyc 5,541]

6 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Or as former Supreme Court Justice Lord Sumption said today:

I have never heard of them trying to change the facts, by law. For as long as black isn’t white, the business of passing acts of parliament to say that it is profoundly discreditable.

I have never heard of a situation in which parliament intervenes to declare the facts – the safety or unsafety of Rwanda – to change the facts from those which have been declared by the courts to be correct.

The courts have perused hundreds of pages of documents to arrive at this conclusion. For parliament simply to say the facts are different would be constitutionally really quite extraordinary.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

21 hours ago, sonyc said:

 

Perhaps the next emergency act will be that any percentage of those eligible to vote who do not will be considered voting for the incumbent.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

£8.5Bn over 11 years to get rid of as many potholes as they can. Well that is my road done for 11 years. I must send them a note of thanks.

[Well b back 3,267]

I wonder if Sunak and Braverman will be condemning their new friend, who they welcomed only a few days ago ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67446800

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

3 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I wonder if Sunak and Braverman will be condemning their new friend, who they welcomed only a few days ago ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67446800

You approve of Mr Musk's comment?

[Well b back 3,267]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You approve of Mr Musk's comment?

You taking the p*** think you should be asking Jools that

[Herman 9,819]

20 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I wonder if Sunak and Braverman will be condemning their new friend, who they welcomed only a few days ago ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67446800

Apple have now pulled their ads from twitter.

[Well b back 3,267]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Apple have now pulled their ads from twitter.

Indeed, only a week ago we were being told how we as the U.K. had to listen to the views of this very ‘ important person ‘, his views considered important.

Plenty on here as well as the likes of Robinson hold him up as the speaker of truth as well.

 

[Well b back 3,267]

9 minutes ago, Herman said:

Apple have now pulled their ads from twitter.

Their share price is crashing, down 48.19% in 24 hours.

 

[Well b back 3,267]

Blimey, IBM, EU and Lionsgate all just pulled ads as well.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

39 minutes ago, Well b back said:

You taking the p*** think you should be asking Jools that

I think the way you've been carrying on it's a fair question. You seem to believe everything that comes out of Israel is a lie and everything that comes out of Gaza can be taken as gospel truth.

[Well b back 3,267]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think the way you've been carrying on it's a fair question. You seem to believe everything that comes out of Israel is a lie and everything that comes out of Gaza can be taken as gospel truth.

Lol, you are comical when you are on the defensive. 
As I have stated before, I believe neither side, but you do seem to have a problem with me being concerned about children being blown to bits. They don’t have to have a ceasefire, just stop the indiscriminate bombing. It’s only because of this bombing that world opinion has changed and even the US are getting closer to telling them enough is enough. I have nothing against Israeli’s, unlike I think Hamas should be wiped from the face of the earth, but let’s face it, it isn’t going to happen as Hamas in the main have left Gaza and as shown today fighting Israel and supporting Hamas from different borders.

As far as Musk goes, I have just heard our chancellor saying he loves London. Musk is supported on here as ‘ the only truth ‘ by a number of posters, yet in fairness to him he is only saying what the likes of Robinson were saying a few months ago. The Israeli’s and Americans were the ones that called Musk out, so there you go I do believe them sometimes.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

17 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Lol, you are comical when you are on the defensive. 
As I have stated before, I believe neither side, but you do seem to have a problem with me being concerned about children being blown to bits. They don’t have to have a ceasefire, just stop the indiscriminate bombing. It’s only because of this bombing that world opinion has changed and even the US are getting closer to telling them enough is enough. I have nothing against Israeli’s, unlike I think Hamas should be wiped from the face of the earth, but let’s face it, it isn’t going to happen as Hamas in the main have left Gaza and as shown today fighting Israel and supporting Hamas from different borders.

As far as Musk goes, I have just heard our chancellor saying he loves London. Musk is supported on here as ‘ the only truth ‘ by a number of posters, yet in fairness to him he is only saying what the likes of Robinson were saying a few months ago. The Israeli’s and Americans were the ones that called Musk out, so there you go I do believe them sometimes.

 

There's nothing defensive about it. I think you're a hypocrite. I think a lot of people on here have shown themselves to be hypocrites as well in their one-sided outlook on this. When has anyone on here decried Turkey or Iraq as 'apartheid states' or screamed genocide about their treatment of Kurds the way they're doing now on this, jumping on the bandwagon? The condescension and contempt towards Israel and double standards screams out of this whole thread. Antisemitism is spinning out of control in Europe on the back of this and you all shrug your shoulders and mumble sh1t about right to protest as medical students carry flags with Israeli flags being put in a bin and slogans like 'keep the planet clean'.

Anyway... Musk should have stayed out of politics. Personally, I'm having a bit of a dilemma on that score since I install a lot of Starlink systems and I really don't want to be aiding financing him any more after this.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,819]

This'll go down well with the Blukips. (I actually agree with Cameron.)

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/nov/18/david-cameron-wants-to-unlock-billions-of-dollars-for-foreign-aid

[Well b back 3,267]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

This'll go down well with the Blukips. (I actually agree with Cameron.)

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/nov/18/david-cameron-wants-to-unlock-billions-of-dollars-for-foreign-aid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67456174
 

Indeed, the government are claiming this, but it looks like Cameron’s finger print on this. I guess they will be withdrawing lots of the policies made to devide saying they never happened.

Makes you wonder who is the currently making the decisions, Sunak or Cameron

[Well b back 3,267]

Disney have now pulled out of X, yet still the U.K. government are praising him.

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

This'll go down well with the Blukips. (I actually agree with Cameron.)

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/nov/18/david-cameron-wants-to-unlock-billions-of-dollars-for-foreign-aid

Depends what they spend it on. I generally agree with the Dambisa Moyo school of thought that it's useless but there are essentially two exceptions in my book where (in greatly simplified terms) I think the probable drawbacks of local corruption in the country receiving aid are outweighed by the potential benefits. These are:

1. Education/emancipation of women.
2. Foreign aid tied to asylum seekers/stabilisation after a crisis within the country in question.

Cameron's very much with me with number 2 here.

[horsefly 4,310]

10 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There's nothing defensive about it. I think you're a hypocrite. I think a lot of people on here have shown themselves to be hypocrites as well in their one-sided outlook on this. When has anyone on here decried Turkey or Iraq as 'apartheid states' or screamed genocide about their treatment of Kurds the way they're doing now on this, jumping on the bandwagon? The condescension and contempt towards Israel and double standards screams out of this whole thread. Antisemitism is spinning out of control in Europe on the back of this and you all shrug your shoulders and mumble sh1t about right to protest as medical students carry flags with Israeli flags being put in a bin and slogans like 'keep the planet clean'.

Anyway... Musk should have stayed out of politics. Personally, I'm having a bit of a dilemma on that score since I install a lot of Starlink systems and I really don't want to be aiding financing him any more after this.

 

When has anyone on here decried Turkey or Iraq as 'apartheid states' or screamed genocide about their treatment of Kurds the way they're doing now on this, jumping on the bandwagon?

I did precisely that when the coward Trump abandoned the Kurds by withdrawing US military support leaving them exposed to Turkish and Syrian attack. I expect many others did too (did you?). 

The condescension and contempt towards Israel and double standards screams out of this whole thread.

I have pointed out time and again, that every poster on this thread has unconditionally condemned the Hamas atrocity on 7/10. Every poster has also supported Israel's right to self defence. The idea that one can not thereby be in any way critical of the brutality of Israel's response, that has seen over 4,000 children slaughtered, is utterly ludicrous and completely disingenuous. Even Netanyahu himself admitted that Israel has significantly failed to prevent civilian casualties (no doubt because of American displeasure). It seems only you and other extremists are left maintaining that the mass killing of civilians is entirely justified. The excessive Israeli response represents as clear a prima facie case of breach of international laws as I have seen. 

Antisemitism is spinning out of control in Europe on the back of this and you all shrug your shoulders and mumble sh1t about right to protest as medical students carry flags with Israeli flags being put in a bin and slogans like 'keep the planet clean'

Every poster on this thread has condemned anti-Semitism. Every poster on this thread has condemned any display of anti-Semitic material displayed on the protest marches. Not "mumbled sh*it", but straightforward condemnation. Your attempt to claim that the small minority of anti-Semite protesters somehow means the whole 100,000+ protest is anti-Semite is very childish.

There are very serious issues concerning the rise in anti-Semitism that requires urgent but calm consideration by government and society stakeholders alike (although I note you show no concern for a similar increase in Islamophobia).  There is a hideous potential for the current fraught and divisive atmosphere to turn very nasty. For that to be avoided will require honest recognition of the concerns and fears of ALL the participants, Islamic, Jewish, and all people concerned with human rights generally. You seem perfectly capable of acknowledging this. Which is why I am perplexed that you continue persistently to lie about the views of other posters on this thread. It is hard to conclude anything other than that it demonstrates a paucity of your "arguments", with the purpose to render intelligent reasoned debate impossible. 

 

 

[Daz Sparks 1,174]

11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There's nothing defensive about it. I think you're a hypocrite. I think a lot of people on here have shown themselves to be hypocrites as well in their one-sided outlook on this. When has anyone on here decried Turkey or Iraq as 'apartheid states' or screamed genocide about their treatment of Kurds the way they're doing now on this, jumping on the bandwagon? The condescension and contempt towards Israel and double standards screams out of this whole thread. Antisemitism is spinning out of control in Europe on the back of this and you all shrug your shoulders and mumble sh1t about right to protest as medical students carry flags with Israeli flags being put in a bin and slogans like 'keep the planet clean'.

Anyway... Musk should have stayed out of politics. Personally, I'm having a bit of a dilemma on that score since I install a lot of Starlink systems and I really don't want to be aiding financing him any more after this.

 

 

16 minutes ago, horsefly said:

When has anyone on here decried Turkey or Iraq as 'apartheid states' or screamed genocide about their treatment of Kurds the way they're doing now on this, jumping on the bandwagon?

I did precisely that when the coward Trump abandoned the Kurds by withdrawing US military support leaving them exposed to Turkish and Syrian attack. I expect many others did too (did you?). 

The condescension and contempt towards Israel and double standards screams out of this whole thread.

I have pointed out time and again, that every poster on this thread has unconditionally condemned the Hamas atrocity on 7/10. Every poster has also supported Israel's right to self defence. The idea that one can not thereby be in any way critical of the brutality of Israel's response, that has seen over 4,000 children slaughtered, is utterly ludicrous and completely disingenuous. Even Netanyahu himself admitted that Israel has significantly failed to prevent civilian casualties (no doubt because of American displeasure). It seems only you and other extremists are left maintaining that the mass killing of civilians is entirely justified. The excessive Israeli response represents as clear a prima facie case of breach of international laws as I have seen. 

Antisemitism is spinning out of control in Europe on the back of this and you all shrug your shoulders and mumble sh1t about right to protest as medical students carry flags with Israeli flags being put in a bin and slogans like 'keep the planet clean'

Every poster on this thread has condemned anti-Semitism. Every poster on this thread has condemned any display of anti-Semitic material displayed on the protest marches. Not "mumbled sh*it", but straightforward condemnation. Your attempt to claim that the small minority of anti-Semite protesters somehow means the whole 100,000+ protest is anti-Semite is very childish.

There are very serious issues concerning the rise in anti-Semitism that requires urgent but calm consideration by government and society stakeholders alike (although I note you show no concern for a similar increase in Islamophobia).  There is a hideous potential for the current fraught and divisive atmosphere to turn very nasty. For that to be avoided will require honest recognition of the concerns and fears of ALL the participants, Islamic, Jewish, and all people concerned with human rights generally. You seem perfectly capable of acknowledging this. Which is why I am perplexed that you continue persistently to lie about the views of other posters on this thread. It is hard to conclude anything other than that it demonstrates a paucity of your "arguments", with the purpose to render intelligent reasoned debate impossible. 

 

 

Well said Horsefly, I echo your sentiments, fully support the arguments you put across, and I applaud the manner in which they were delivered. Almost every mature, well rounded, intelligent and sincere adult I have conversed with on this subject also seem to concur with conclusions reached in your post, the very few that don't, believe in Trump, chemtrails, moon landing and 911 conspiracies.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

13 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

 

Well said Horsefly, I echo your sentiments, fully support the arguments you put across, and I applaud the manner in which they were delivered. Almost every mature, well rounded, intelligent and sincere adult I have conversed with on this subject also seem to concur with conclusions reached in your post, the very few that don't, believe in Trump, chemtrails, moon landing and 911 conspiracies.

 

Well f*k me; there's a surprise. Who'd have thought all the hypocrites would circle the wagons when called out? 

You say you condemn antisemitism, but you fully support marches that were launched by naked antisemites triggered by an attack on Israel and have no problem with huge masses standing shoulder to shoulder with them on our streets.You refuse to apply exactly the same principles to protests regarding Israel that are the whole reason you stay shtum where Arab countries and Muslims in our own communities are concerned.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/30/antisemitism-deeply-ingrained-in-european-society-says-eu-official

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Daz Sparks 1,174]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well f*k me; there's a surprise. Who'd have thought all the hypocrites would circle the wagons when called out? 

You say you condemn antisemitism, but you fully support marches that were launched by naked antisemites triggered by an attack on Israel and have no problem with huge masses standing shoulder to shoulder with them on our streets.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/30/antisemitism-deeply-ingrained-in-european-society-says-eu-official

 

 

I support the calls for a ceasefire, I condemn antisemitism.

Simple enough for you to understand, however, I'm sure you will choose to ignore it.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

25 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

I support the calls for a ceasefire, I condemn antisemitism.

Simple enough for you to understand, however, I'm sure you will choose to ignore it.

But you justify marches triggered by antisemites on the back of an attack on Israel with specious arguments that later marches with all the same slogans, all the same flags, and all the same rhetoric should be considered as completely unrelated.

You can say the words all you like, but the denial of the link between the marches and the emboldening of antisemitism tells a different story.

And I don't mean you personally; I'm talking about the whole movement.

Edited November 18, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

45 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well f*k me; there's a surprise. Who'd have thought all the hypocrites would circle the wagons when called out? 

You say you condemn antisemitism, but you fully support marches that were launched by naked antisemites triggered by an attack on Israel and have no problem with huge masses standing shoulder to shoulder with them on our streets.You refuse to apply exactly the same principles to protests regarding Israel that are the whole reason you stay shtum where Arab countries and Muslims in our own communities are concerned.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/30/antisemitism-deeply-ingrained-in-european-society-says-eu-official

 

 

The hypocrites are the ones that rightly condemn Russia for it's expansionist aggression towards Ukraine but fail somehow to call out (indeed connive) the same expansionist aggression the Israelis have shown and continue to show towards the Palestinians - especially in the West Bank.

Oddly the Russians at least 'owned' Ukraine (was part of Russia) in living memory and for hundreds of years previously - not two millennia ago!

Treat Israel as you do Russia, sure destroy or diminish terrorist Hamas, then forcibly remove the 700,000 settlers (drop a few leaflets on them too) and create two states. Full UN sanctions otherwise.

That's not hypercritical just treating all the same under international law. It also what's now obvious to the rest of the world and why the US and West in general are losing global influence and leadership. 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

13 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The hypocrites are the ones that rightly condemn Russia for it's expansionist aggression towards Ukraine but fail somehow to call out (indeed connive) the same expansionist aggression the Israelis have shown and continue to show towards the Palestinians - especially in the West Bank.

Oddly the Russians at least 'owned' Ukraine (was part of Russia) in living memory and for hundreds of years previously - not two millennia ago!

Treat Israel as you do Russia, sure destroy or diminish terrorist Hamas, then forcibly remove the 700,000 settlers (drop a few leaflets on them too) and create two states. Full UN sanctions otherwise.

That's not hypercritical just treating all the same under international law. It also what's now obvious to the rest of the world and why the US and West in general are losing global influence and leadership. 

 

Who are they then? I've explicitly said several times now that the illegal settlers acting to take the homes of Palestinians are indefensible. You on the other hand, gleefully trot out anecdotes of orthodox Jews you might have met to support the argument that Israel has no right to exist, putting you pretty firmly in the extremist camp.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Who are they then? I've explicitly said several times now that the illegal settlers acting to take the homes of Palestinians are indefensible. You on the other hand, gleefully trot out anecdotes of orthodox Jews you might have met to support the argument that Israel has no right to exist, putting you pretty firmly in the extremist camp.

Illogical and unhinged. No other comment needed.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

6 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Illogical and unhinged. No other comment needed.

Not at all. Angry is not the same as unhinged. I'll question myself and rethink things. None of you ever concede a point on anything. You're all convinced of your own unimpeachable righteousness. Bona fide zealots, with the hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness to boot.

If anything, the fact you're all barely distiguishable from NNHHI on this subject should give you pause for thought, but it won't.

Edited November 18, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Well b back 3,267]

Those against a ceasefire are becoming less and less by the day. People were quick to point out the revolt here by a large number of MP’s but aren’t shouting this morning that American politicians from all sides are demanding Biden tells Israel to stop. 
 

[Daz Sparks 1,174]

26 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Not at all. Angry is not the same as unhinged. I'll question myself and rethink things. None of you ever concede a point on anything. You're all convinced of your own unimpeachable righteousness. Bona fide zealots, with the hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness to boot.

If anything, the fact you're all barely distiguishable from NNHHI on this subject should give you pause for thought, but it won't.

Everyone else is wrong, I am right. 

That's what is emerging more and more from your posts, and that is a very polite take on it. 

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

9 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

Everyone else is wrong, I am right. 

That's what is emerging more and more from your posts, and that is a very polite take on it. 

Everyone who isn't unquestionably fully signed up for the current Israeli policy is an extremist to LYB. That not only includes the UN but even Biden and the US too it seems

Perhaps the extremist is LYB!

Edited November 18, 2023 by Yellow Fever