What does Mclean bring to the team?

[Il Pirata 249]

Another one from Farke which baffles me to be honest. 

Tried him in the number 10 role behind Pukki, and was a bit of revelation. Everton away springs to mind. But then isn't really tried there again. He's not effective enough in the deeper role. Before Norwich, he always played more of an attacking role. 

A midfield four of Trybul, Mclean, Cantwell and Buendia is so disjointed. Number tens playing on the wing and in defensive roles... Too many square pegs in round holes. 

Why doesn't Farke just revert back to the championship winning team? He should never have broken that up so much. 

 

                         Vrancic  Tettey (or Trybull) 

     Buendia             Mclean          Henrnandez 

                                Pukki 

 

And utilise Rupp and Duda…. That midfield and attack is much more dynamic and better balanced than the one Farke put out against Saints. Hernandez is such a waste on the bench, and brings much more to the team as a whole than Cantwell. 

Next season, Hernandez and Mclean will very important players. I hope they'll both still be here. I worry Hernandez maybe a bit miffed off. 

[Jim Smith 2,325]

We've started Trybull and Mclean as a midfield duo 4 times this season and have lost 1-4, 0-2, 0-2 and 0-3.

If Farke has access to any kind of decent statistical analysis (or indeed has eyes and a brain) he will know that the only midfield combinations that have been vaguely effective at this level have all had Alex Tettey playing in them. 

The only thing I can think of in his defence is that our inadequate squad planning/ability to injure our own players in training means Tettey is now his only centre back cover and therefore he may have been hoping Trybull and Mclean would get us through this particular game without risking Tettey. If he feels he has to do that then it is in itself a bit of a joke.

[Jim Smith 2,325]

Starting central midfield combinations:

Trybull & Kenny - 4 games - 0 points

Trybull & Leitner - 4 games - 3 points

Tettey & Kenny - 11 games - 11 points

Tettey & Trybull - 4 games - 4 points (Kenny also played AM in those games)

Trybull & Amadou - 2 games - 1 point

Tettey & Vrancic - 3 games - 2 points

Kenny & Leitner - 2 games - 0 points

 

 

[Nuff Said 5,147]

23 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We've started Trybull and Mclean as a midfield duo 4 times this season and have lost 1-4, 0-2, 0-2 and 0-3.

If Farke has access to any kind of decent statistical analysis (or indeed has eyes and a brain) he will know that the only midfield combinations that have been vaguely effective at this level have all had Alex Tettey playing in them. 

The only thing I can think of in his defence is that our inadequate squad planning/ability to injure our own players in training means Tettey is now his only centre back cover and therefore he may have been hoping Trybull and Mclean would get us through this particular game without risking Tettey. If he feels he has to do that then it is in itself a bit of a joke.

I said something similar about Tettey Jim. I'm not sure why our chronic run of injuries is a joke though?

[Jim Smith 2,325]

11 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I said something similar about Tettey Jim. I'm not sure why our chronic run of injuries is a joke though?

Leaving aside the fact I still firmly believe that as well as some bad luck some of these injuries are self inflicted, it is a joke really that a premier league club has to rely on an aging midfielder (who himself has not been able to play every game in recent seasons) as their only viable holding midfielder and then can't actually play him in a crucial game because they need him as cover at central defence because they relied there on two players who have been injury prone of late, one of whom was also injured at the start of the season.

It just shows really that we have got the squad balance/cover really wrong this season and how it has impacted us all the way through. A point a game which the Tettey/Kenny or Tettey/Trybull combos give you gets us right in the mix still but we've not been able to put that side out often enough and even now, when desperate for a win at home v Saints we are still not putting the right side out because of problems at the back. Yes we've been unlucky but there has also been a lack of resources spent and some very questionable decision making. If Amadou is still here (or is replaced) then you can start Tettey last Friday without worry (if indeed that's what the worry was).

Its just extremely frustrating.

[Nuff Said 5,147]

51 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Leaving aside the fact I still firmly believe that as well as some bad luck some of these injuries are self inflicted, it is a joke really that a premier league club has to rely on an aging midfielder (who himself has not been able to play every game in recent seasons) as their only viable holding midfielder and then can't actually play him in a crucial game because they need him as cover at central defence because they relied there on two players who have been injury prone of late, one of whom was also injured at the start of the season.

It just shows really that we have got the squad balance/cover really wrong this season and how it has impacted us all the way through. A point a game which the Tettey/Kenny or Tettey/Trybull combos give you gets us right in the mix still but we've not been able to put that side out often enough and even now, when desperate for a win at home v Saints we are still not putting the right side out because of problems at the back. Yes we've been unlucky but there has also been a lack of resources spent and some very questionable decision making. If Amadou is still here (or is replaced) then you can start Tettey last Friday without worry (if indeed that's what the worry was).

Its just extremely frustrating.

It is a factor of our lack of good luck, budget and strategy (pick up bargains who are cheap for a reason, injury record being one of them). I don't see much alternative and given that we are in the PL (albeit not for much longer unless Lakey's positivity is proved correct) it has worked pretty well to date. That's not a joke IMHO, I don't see much alternative, other than one of these fabled hinvestors/stinking rich furriners.

[Number9 272]

19 hours ago, hogesar said:

He is certainly a very good championship midfielder and I have no idea how or why anyone would think otherwise unless he slept with your wife or similar, in which case his judgement might be able to be called into question but doesnt detract from his footballing ability.

He would be doing me a favour, I need a rest.

People who have opinions on McLean would hopefully have formulated them after watching him in action. 

I did. 

[hogesar 9,704]

11 minutes ago, Number9 said:

He would be doing me a favour, I need a rest.

People who have opinions on McLean would hopefully have formulated them after watching him in action. 

I did. 

Do you not think he's good enough for the Championship? I understand for the Prem but in the Championship he was one of our better tacklers, headers, assisters and goalscorers from midfield. Not just from watching him, but the numbers do back that up. And he was part of our fantastic form that won us the league. Or do you think differently?

[Number9 272]

29 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Do you not think he's good enough for the Championship? I understand for the Prem but in the Championship he was one of our better tacklers, headers, assisters and goalscorers from midfield. Not just from watching him, but the numbers do back that up. And he was part of our fantastic form that won us the league. Or do you think differently?

I did say he would survive in the championship but I don't think he's a good midfielder. 

He would be better playing as a number ten which he did before coming here, but he's not the best at that either. 

If you had a competition for pointing then he would get bronze medal behind Russ Martin and next doors pointer dog.

 

 

[Number9 272]

* he runs to where the ball is then stops five metre away and waves his arms without engaging. The opposition basically can progress as if they're unmarked. 

* when he's five metres from play, the ball will be knocked to him by our player who has been holding off a couple of opposition players. He often passes it straight back to our marked player which results in us losing possession and our players scratching their heads. 

* he passes slightly behind where our players are running to. They have to stop and turn round to collect the ball and the move is gone.

Etc

Etc

Etc

You may see some good qualities such as taking a shot from 25 yards which sometimes skids through a group of players into the goal.

It's just, I don't rate him because of what he does. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,822]

43 minutes ago, Number9 said:

I did say he would survive in the championship but I don't think he's a good midfielder. 

 

17 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

If McLean is "a long way from being good" at Championship level, who would you rate as a good Championship midfielder, and who would you say is a top Championship midfielder?

.

[Number9 272]

49 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

 

.

One of the main qualities I would suggest would be to be an improver, someone who develops their game and gets better at the aspects they were weaker at while perfecting their best bits.

For instance,  James Maddison is an example of someone who improved. Lots of players and managers develop and improve,  some don't seem to. 

Some of our players have improved, some haven't. I don't think that McLean has trained on or made strides in improving his strengths or weaknesses. 

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,822]

1 hour ago, Number9 said:

One of the main qualities I would suggest would be to be an improver, someone who develops their game and gets better at the aspects they were weaker at while perfecting their best bits.

For instance,  James Maddison is an example of someone who improved. Lots of players and managers develop and improve,  some don't seem to. 

Some of our players have improved, some haven't. I don't think that McLean has trained on or made strides in improving his strengths or weaknesses. 

It's hard to criticise for McLean. He only joined in the summer of 2018 and got injured immediately, then wasn't fit until Jan/Feb 2019. He hasn't had as much time to improve under Farke- he's had a year and a half, whereas most of the others have had three years. He's also 28, while the others are much younger.

You still haven't named any good Championship midfielders or any top Championship midfielders, by the way.

[Bill 1,788]

usually something like this to have with their half time cuppa

[Number9 272]

10 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

It's hard to criticise for McLean. He only joined in the summer of 2018 and got injured immediately, then wasn't fit until Jan/Feb 2019. He hasn't had as much time to improve under Farke- he's had a year and a half, whereas most of the others have had three years. He's also 28, while the others are much younger.

You still haven't named any good Championship midfielders or any top Championship midfielders, by the 

During the year and half, he's shown consistently how he plays, that's not being overly critical, just a realistic assessment. 

The topic was McLean and not our other players, so I posted my observations about him and not a detailed comparison of all our midfielders. 

I gave you the example of Maddison who is an improving player, there are many others. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,822]

11 minutes ago, Number9 said:

During the year and half, he's shown consistently how he plays, that's not being overly critical, just a realistic assessment. 

The topic was McLean and not our other players, so I posted my observations about him and not a detailed comparison of all our midfielders. 

I gave you the example of Maddison who is an improving player, there are many others. 

Maddison is quite clearly a top Premier League player. You said McLean is 'a long way from being good' at Championship level, but seem unable to provide examples of good, or very good, Championship midfielders, i.e. players who are better than McLean but still not Premier League quality. It would be interesting to see who you put in this bracket.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[Number9 272]

2 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Maddison is quite clearly a top Premier League player. You said McLean is 'a long way from being good' at Championship level, but seem unable to provide examples of good, or very good, Championship midfielders, i.e. players who are better than McLean but still not Premier League quality. It would be interesting to see who you put in this bracket.

He was a Championship player for a good while, developed his game and progressed into the Premier League. 

It's ok if we have different expectations, I personally think everybody should try to stretch themselves and fully reach their potential. From what I've seen, McLean has reached his and it's mid championship level. 

You're welcome to have a different opinion to me, I have just posted it as I see it. 

[Jim Smith 2,325]

Kenny is fine as an option at championship level and has had a few good games at premiership level. At champ level I did get frustrated during that long run when he was keeping Mo or Vrancic out of the side (just because I really rate both of them at that level) but we kept winning and he kept popping up with important goals or assists so as is his way Farke did not change the team. If we go down then I have no doubt that if they are around Mclean and Trybull will both be important players for us and certainly I can't fault either of them for  their attitude. 

What he is not (and nor is Trybull who equally is fine at champ level) is a premier league quality holding midfielder. His better games have tended to come when playing in the more advanced position. Tettey is the only one with the athleticism to play that role although I thought Amadou showed quite a lot of potential in the one game he played there against Arsenal. Unfortunately in the next game he was knackered, played in a strange position in an unusual formation, had a bit of a stinker and was never seen again. 

Either Kenny or Trybull alongside Tettey can do a job. 

[Indy 3,307]

He is the stereotypical journeyman, who has some ability, high energy, good player to have in the squad. Can defend, gets the odd goal and generally doesn’t let himself or the team down.

Trouble is played in a decent team he will look good, so championship will always be his level to shine, struggling premiership side he’s under more pressure and doesn’t look so good.

He’s certainly no worse than any other midfielder we’ve played in the same position. This area more than the CB or back four is the reason we conceded so many, this area is a key to help keep clean sheets and link up quick ball to our attacking line.

[Crafty Canary 497]

When pished he does a reasonable impersonation of the Lord Mayor of Norwich. 🙂

[bringbackchippy 51]

NOTHING

Another waste of time!

[Midlands Yellow 4,012]

Had a good game when we beat Man City. 

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

On 23/06/2020 at 08:35, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Maddison is quite clearly a top Premier League player. You said McLean is 'a long way from being good' at Championship level, but seem unable to provide examples of good, or very good, Championship midfielders, i.e. players who are better than McLean but still not Premier League quality. It would be interesting to see who you put in this bracket.

Kalvin Phillips?

[hogesar 9,704]

2 hours ago, bringbackchippy said:

NOTHING

Another waste of time!

Racist and hating on our players

 

What a combo