U23 Departures

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,780]

https://www.canaries.co.uk/News/2020/may/nine-academy-players-to-depart-norwich-city/

I guess Odusina, Jaiyesimi and Bloomfield are the biggest names, but considering they're all in their 20s now and haven't broken through, they were unlikely to make the grade. Saying that, Jaiyesimi was allegedly doing really well in League Two this season after recovering from a serious injury, so maybe he could've had another year.

[The Walking Man 13]

None particularly surprise me, I assume that there will be no U23 football next season and with league 1/2 football looking up in the air for the foreseeable future if it was deemed that none of the players were about to breakthrough imminently then i'm afraid simple economics would see them released. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,780]

10 minutes ago, The Walking Man said:

None particularly surprise me, I assume that there will be no U23 football next season and with league 1/2 football looking up in the air for the foreseeable future if it was deemed that none of the players were about to breakthrough imminently then i'm afraid simple economics would see them released. 

 

10 minutes ago, The Walking Man said:

None particularly surprise me, I assume that there will be no U23 football next season and with league 1/2 football looking up in the air for the foreseeable future if it was deemed that none of the players were about to breakthrough imminently then i'm afraid simple economics would see them released. 

Good point about U23 football, but with League One and Two clubs being under serious financial pressure, especially with games next season likely being played behind closed doors, they'd probably have to rely on the loan market more than ever before.

Not that I'm saying these players should have been retained, but it's something that clubs both at the top and bottom of the system could consider.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Jaiyesimi surprises me a bit as he did well on loan at Swindon last season and you'd think we may have been able to get a fee for him. Having said that maybe he didn't sign what we were offering him or any fee would be so small now given the finances in the lower leagues that its not worth the risk of giving him a contract.

Mourgos a bit surprising as well. I know he had a bad injury but thought he'd showed some promise before that. I guess we will be belt tightening at all levels so if they aren't likely to make the first team or we don't think we can get money for them at some point then they will be on their way.

[sgncfc 1,221]

These decisions were apparently made some weeks/months ago so I doubt the current situation had much to do with it. I'm also surprised at Jaiyesimi, but if he is only ever going to be League One/Two standard he needs to find a new club.

[The Walking Man 13]

25 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

 

Good point about U23 football, but with League One and Two clubs being under serious financial pressure, especially with games next season likely being played behind closed doors, they'd probably have to rely on the loan market more than ever before.

Not that I'm saying these players should have been retained, but it's something that clubs both at the top and bottom of the system could consider.

We're assuming of course that league one and two is returning this year... 😔

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Lucky for Jaiyesimi that he had a successful loan spell just before being released, in these uncertain times that's probably the difference between him picking up a club or getting a 9-5, the other two going to find it incredibly difficult. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[daly 500]

Along with hundreds of other footballers 

The world has changed and it will be years before any form of normality returns. More people  from different  trades, occupations etc going to be signing on for the foreseeable future. Shops closing,  all the skyscrapers that have been built for office’s  remaining empty. It’s a bleak future 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

53 minutes ago, daly said:

Along with hundreds of other footballers 

The world has changed and it will be years before any form of normality returns. More people  from different  trades, occupations etc going to be signing on for the foreseeable future. Shops closing,  all the skyscrapers that have been built for office’s  remaining empty. It’s a bleak future 

Disagree on offices. Due to social distancing nobody has enough floor space at the moment. 

Yes there will be more unemployed and more working from home, but my firm having to take on more space despite 60 percent of employees wfh. 

Retail/ high Street destroyed though. 

Also, it always comes back. Things evolve, will be some pain but recession and lots of spare capacity brings new opportunity. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Little sympathy for most footballers who don't quite make it, as English footballers usually reluctant to get out of their comfort zones and test themselves in other leagues. Pretty much any U23 player released by a Prem Club will be good enough to play in Scandinavia or Greece or similar, but few prepared to do it. 

I always wonder why Jamar Loza went and played in front of 500 in semi-pro when he didn't get a league offer instead of taking that insane pace to Australia or elsewhere. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[Yellow and Green 334]

A bit harsh, Teemu, and a massive generalisation. 

Of course there are cases of young players getting cocky, distracted etc. but most of them are desperate to sign pro deals. 

While I'm sure they could go abroad, we don't know how common it is for foreign clubs to offer British youth players contracts. It is also harsh to criticising players for not wanting to leave their families to go to a random club in Greece. 

 

Back to the OT, it is always a shame when promising youth players leave - especially when they've had such bad luck with injuries. As others have mentioned, Jaiyesimi in particular was praised by the Swindon boss, who mentioned that he could make in the prem one day.

[cornish sam 944]

49 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Little sympathy for most footballers who don't quite make it, as English footballers usually reluctant to get out of their comfort zones and test themselves in other leagues. Pretty much any U23 player released by a Prem Club will be good enough to play in Scandinavia or Greece or similar, but few prepared to do it. 

I always wonder why Jamar Loza went and played in front of 500 in semi-pro when he didn't get a league offer instead of taking that insane pace to Australia or elsewhere. 

Well, they could have before Brexit... I imagine the challenge for a player like loza going to a-league or MLS would be work permit.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,780]

I'd be inclined to agree with Teemu, although it is hard to tar all players with the same brush. Some may have a good opportunity outside of football or they might feel that their long term prospects are better served by going to uni.

But it's undeniable that English players travel abroad less than everyone else. Maybe it's because English people are usually less inclined to learn a foreign language, or they just don't like being outside their comfort zone as Teemu says. But you definitely see more youngsters from other countries go abroad to try their luck.

 

1 minute ago, cornish sam said:

Well, they could have before Brexit... I imagine the challenge for a player like loza going to a-league or MLS would be work permit.

But Australia and the US aren't in the EU, so I doubt Brexit will have any bearing on that.

[cornish sam 944]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I'd be inclined to agree with Teemu, although it is hard to tar all players with the same brush. Some may have a good opportunity outside of football or they might feel that their long term prospects are better served by going to uni.

But it's undeniable that English players travel abroad less than everyone else. Maybe it's because English people are usually less inclined to learn a foreign language, or they just don't like being outside their comfort zone as Teemu says. But you definitely see more youngsters from other countries go abroad to try their luck.

 

But Australia and the US aren't in the EU, so I doubt Brexit will have any bearing on that.

Sorry, poorly formatted, it should have been a new paragraph after the ellipses. Brexit will have little bearing on that, but his ability to get a work permit for those places would be questionable when he was let go by Norwich, at which point he could have gone to the EU without needing one...

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,780]

5 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Sorry, poorly formatted, it should have been a new paragraph after the ellipses. Brexit will have little bearing on that, but his ability to get a work permit for those places would be questionable when he was let go by Norwich, at which point he could have gone to the EU without needing one...

I'm not sure how work permits work in every country, but I don't think the regulations are particularly tight. There are well over a thousand Brazilians playing professional football outside Brazil, for example.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

9 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I'm not sure how work permits work in every country, but I don't think the regulations are particularly tight. There are well over a thousand Brazilians playing professional football outside Brazil, for example.

Loads of Brazilians playing in China and Japan.

Obviously can't tar all players with the same brush but definitely feels like a lot of English players would rather be non-league but near their mates rather than going wherever they can find work as a full time footballer. 

A lot of those who do go let themselves down by making no attempt to learn the language. 

There are some success stories though, John Bostock went and proved himself. Fair play to him. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

21 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Little sympathy for most footballers who don't quite make it, as English footballers usually reluctant to get out of their comfort zones and test themselves in other leagues. Pretty much any U23 player released by a Prem Club will be good enough to play in Scandinavia or Greece or similar, but few prepared to do it. 

I always wonder why Jamar Loza went and played in front of 500 in semi-pro when he didn't get a league offer instead of taking that insane pace to Australia or elsewhere. 

I know Jamar and family would have played a big part in that decision. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I know Jamar and family would have played a big part in that decision. 

Fair enough, surprised he didn't make it to be honest. 

[king canary 7,580]

On 28/05/2020 at 14:15, TeemuVanBasten said:

Loads of Brazilians playing in China and Japan.

Obviously can't tar all players with the same brush but definitely feels like a lot of English players would rather be non-league but near their mates rather than going wherever they can find work as a full time footballer. 

A lot of those who do go let themselves down by making no attempt to learn the language. 

There are some success stories though, John Bostock went and proved himself. Fair play to him. 

You only have to look at the constant stream on youngsters who go from NCFC to Kings Lynn or Lowestoft to see this is true.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

I moved to Italy when I was 19 to make my football career. Was almost unheard of 25 years ago....

In Italy I also worked under coaches from Ajax who were deeply ingrained in the philosophies of Cruyff that he imported to Barcelona (and which are credited with still being the foundations at La Masia).

The youth coach I had went on to manage Nice and spin offs from the Ajax coaches went on to establish revolutionary sports science methods in - particularly - Belgium, whose approaches to training and biomechanics have been copied widely since. 

To borrow from another thread in England we were so wrapped up in old-fashioned ‘working man’ traits and the influx of piles of cash that we bought ready-made players and invested little or no time - or high quality coaching - in young players, who rarely got first team exposure anyway. 

This was 25 years ago. 

Until very recently we still only had c3,000 qualified coaches whilst Germany had c30,000....

...we wait for magical street Rooneys, Gazzas or Bests to arrive from heaven once every generation, whilst in Germany they have built 30 Thomas Müllers in the same time frame.

It can be done.

Parma 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Mark .Y. 351]

2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I moved to Italy when I was 19 to make my football career. Was almost unheard of 25 years ago....

In Italy I also worked under coaches from Ajax who were deeply ingrained in the philosophies of Cruyff that he imported to Barcelona (and which are credited with still being the foundations at La Masia).

The youth coach I had went on to manage Nice and spin offs from the Ajax coaches went on to establish revolutionary sports science methods in - particularly - Belgium, whose approaches to training and biomechanics have been copied widely since. 

To borrow from another thread in England we were so wrapped up in old-fashioned ‘working man’ traits and the influx of piles of cash that we bought ready-made players and invested little or no time - or high quality coaching - in young players, who rarely got first team exposure anyway. 

This was 25 years ago. 

Until very recently we still only had c3,000 qualified coaches whilst Germany had c30,000....

...we wait for magical street Rooneys, Gazzas or Bests to arrive from heaven once every generation, whilst in Germany they have built 30 Thomas Müllers in the same time frame.

It can be done.

Parma 

Oh gor............... "T" is gonna love you  🙂

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,780]

3 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Until very recently we still only had c3,000 qualified coaches whilst Germany had c30,000....

Similar story with Spain as well. 

"As of 2013, according to the UEFA Coaching Convention Statistics, there are just 1,395 English coaches with either UEFA A or Pro qualifications. Spain have 15,423, an incredible 1005 percent more. Furthermore, just 203 coaches in England hold a UEFA Pro Licence, the highest possible coaching level, while Spain have 2,140." 

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/05/11/the-revolution-that-changed-spain-and-the-one-yet-to-arrive-in-england/