The Positive Brexit Thread

[Jools 584]

5 minutes ago, Bill said:

None of the nonsense he posts in bold is in that speech

 

Known truths and known facts can never be lies, you imbecile -- If denying known truths and known facts is all you have left there's absolutely no point in your posting on any given subject.

Stop wasting peoples time. You're a clown.

[Jools 584]

14 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

why do you post this cráp?

 

17 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Where are the bits in bold in the speech?

 

As if confirmation that you Lefties are as thick as ****e was really needed -- You don't even try and disguise the fact now.

I'll hazard a guess you never summarised or provided a synopsis on books at school...

[Jools 584]

Another Froggy who seems a tad confused about the side which is refusing to discuss all the issues:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brexit-france-le-drian/frances-le-drian-says-it-is-urgent-to-reach-deal-on-brexit-idUSKBN25X0GB?il=0

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

5 minutes ago, Jools said:

 

As if confirmation that you Lefties are as thick as ****e was really needed -- You don't even try and disguise the fact now.

I'll hazard a guess you never summarised or provided a synopsis on books at school...

 

I know you struggle with the idea that not everyone is either a lefty or a righty, but I´m not a lefty

Why did you highlight words you claimed Barnier had stated, which are not in that speech?

[Bill 1,788]

46 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

why do you post this cráp?

"Jools lies out of his constant desperation for attention "

much as another poster used to, the same one who when caught out would refer to me as a clown

...................how odd, or not

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

32 minutes ago, Jools said:

 

As if confirmation that you Lefties are as thick as ****e was really needed -- You don't even try and disguise the fact now.

I'll hazard a guess you never summarised or provided a synopsis on books at school...

Here's a synopsis of Jools post.

I lied.

Another epic fail from Jools.

 

[Jools 584]

I wonder if any of you airheads will be able to deduce the truth of Barnier's words from the full article?:

 

Monsieur 'Mick Blarnier' in Ireland - Why the EU's Chief Trade Negotiator must go

Michel Barnier talks blame-game blarney to the Irish

Extraordinary attacks, gross misrepresentations, and ideological rants

A Saturday Facts4EU editorial and report on the latest interminable diatribe from the EU

On Wednesday 02 September in Dublin, the EU’s chief Brexit and trade negotiator Michel Barnier gave one of his long speeches to a virtual audience from the Irish ‘Institute of International and European Affairs’.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

Speech by Michel Barnier, Dublin, 02 Sept 2020

• The British won’t do as we say
• They want to be an independent, sovereign country and we can’t allow that
• We would rather sacrifice hundreds of thousands of jobs than do a sensible trade deal with the British
• If there’s no deal it’s not my fault – blame the British

In previous articles looking at speeches by Monsieur Barnier we have drawn out key quotations, rather than put readers through the thousands of words we have to trawl through each time. In this case, however, we felt that readers might wish to get a fuller flavour of the attitude of the EU towards a neighbour which has chosen democracy and freedom in place of the yoke of undemocratic and autocratic rule from Brussels eurocrats.

In what follows we have only edited out the truly boring passages and replaced them with “….”, such as those which heap praise on all of Monsieur Barnier’s EU colleagues, including the usual sycophancy towards his boss, and a eulogy to the now-disgraced (and fired) Irish EU Commissioner Phil Hogan.

The centred subtitles and the emboldening within the text are ours (for ease of reading and for those readers short of time) but the exclamation marks are from Monsieur Barnier himself.

The speech by Michel Barnier this week

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, dia dhaoibh ……

The pandemic does not stop the Brexit clock from ticking. We are now less than four months away from 1 January 2021.

This is the date chosen by the UK itself for its “economic and commercial Brexit”, after the “political Brexit” in January this year. Because, as you know, the UK refused any extension of the transition period. We have no more time to lose. We must have a final agreement by the end of October if we are to have a new partnership in place by 1 January 2021.

As I have already explained, this is the only way to give enough time to the European Parliament and the Council to have their say. This is a legal and democratic necessity. Everyone, everywhere must be realistic about this strict deadline.

'Three major tasks'

The “economic Brexit” will in any case have negative consequences – many negative consequences. But if we all act responsibly, we can contain some of those consequences. Back in February, I mentioned three major tasks for this year:

• Negotiating our future partnership;
• Implementing the Withdrawal Agreement;
• Getting ready for changes at the end of the transition.

These three tasks are closely interlinked. Completing each of them is urgent. I know this sense of urgency is strong in Ireland and in Northern Ireland. Without a doubt, Ireland is the Member State most affected by Brexit. And of course, for the island of Ireland, Brexit negotiations have not just been about trade and the economy. But, more existentially, about maintaining peace and stability.

That is why, since the beginning of the Brexit negotiations, I have been very attentive to the concerns voiced by all the different parties and communities in Ireland and Northern Ireland.

[….] Before opening up the discussion, let me tell you where we stand on the three important tasks that I mentioned.

First of all, let's turn to our current negotiations with the UK on a future partnership. We want a close partnership with the UK. Provided the conditions are right. This is in everybody's interest. And in Ireland's interest in particular.

So far, the UK has not engaged constructively on those conditions. And, as I have said before, I am particularly worried – and disappointed – by the UK's lack of engagement on three points:

First point: Since the start of these negotiations, the UK has refused to engage on credible guarantees for open and fair competition.

Yet, the EU has been clear about this from the very beginning: Any trade and economic partnership – between economies as close and interconnected as ours – must include robust and credible mechanisms to avoid trade distortions and unfair competitive advantages. This is particularly important in the area of state aid, where the potential to distort competition using subsidies is significant.

A Level Playing Field that ensures common high standards – in areas such as labour rights and the environment – and with effective domestic enforcement and dispute settlement mechanisms, is the only way to start a new relationship between the EU and the UK on a firm and sustainable footing. And it is also what Prime Minister Johnson agreed to, explicitly, in the Political Declaration last year.

Second point: Since the start of these negotiations, the UK has not shown any willingness to seek compromises on fisheries.

Contrary to media reports this week, the UK government's position has not evolved in past months. No new legal texts have been tabled by UK negotiators. Where the EU has shown openness to possible solutions, the UK has shunned our offers.

Yet the UK government's position would lock out Ireland's fishermen and women from waters they fished in long before Ireland or the UK joined the European Economic Community in 1973. And of course, the fishermen and women of many other EU countries. That is just not acceptable.

We fully understand and respect that the UK will become an independent coastal state, outside the Common Fisheries Policy. But we will not accept that the work and the livelihoods of these men and women be used as a bargaining chip in these negotiations.

Any solution must ensure a balance:

• between further developing the activities of British fishermen and women;
• safeguarding the activities and livelihoods of European fishermen and women;
• and preserving natural resources.

Without a long-term, fair and sustainable solution on fisheries, there will simply be no new economic partnership with the UK.

Finally, third point: Since the start of these negotiations, the UK has been extremely reluctant to include any meaningful horizontal dispute settlement mechanisms in our future agreement.

Yet, this is the only way to ensure that what we eventually agree on is respected. On all these issues, we are simply asking to translate the political engagements taken in the Political Declaration into a legal text. Nothing more. Nothing less. Yet, on all these issues, the UK side continues to disappoint.

We know well the UK's argument:

• It wants a clean break from the EU.
• Full sovereignty.
• The freedom to set its own rules and spend its money as it wants, with no constraints from Europe.

For all these reasons, the UK insists it cannot commit to a level playing field or to basic safeguards for our future relationship. Not even when it comes to fundamental rights! And yet, the truth is that British negotiators are still seeking continuity in many areas.

Not a “clean break” at all!

• On transport or on energy trading;
• on its role for conformity assessments for goods;
• and on many aspects of police and judicial cooperation.

The UK government is still looking to keep the benefits of the EU and of the Single Market, without the obligations. The UK often says it would be in the EU's interest to grant it a special status in these strategic areas of cooperation. But, frankly speaking: Is it really in the EU's long-term economic interest?

For instance: British proposals on rules of origin would help the UK to develop its role as an assembly hub for the EU! They would allow the UK to source goods from around the world and export them, with very little alteration, to the EU, as British goods: tariff- and quota-free!

• British proposals on road transport would allow British truckers to drive on EU roads without having to comply with the same working conditions as EU drivers.
• The UK's proposals on air transport would allow British airlines to operate inside the EU without having to respect the same labour and environmental standards.
• In the area of energy, the UK is asking to facilitate electricity trade without committing its producers to equivalent carbon pricing and state aid controls.
• In this area, as in others: without a common framework on state aid, the UK government would be free to hand out subsidies at will.

Not just to support the green economy, but also polluting industries. Not just to support industries of the future, but also traditional sectors, such as steel and automotive – before exporting these, tariff and quota-free, to our markets.

'Intervening in British affairs'

We have no wish to intervene in the UK's domestic affairs. But how can we conclude a long-term economic partnership agreement – between sovereign partners –

• without knowing which system of state aid or subsidies the UK will put in place?
• without any assurances that the UK will not use its new regulatory autonomy to distort
• competition with us in the future?

I noted with interest a recent speech by the Chief Executive of the Environment Agency for England, Sir James Bevan. He suggested that, after Brexit, water quality standards for English rivers, lakes and beaches should be less rigorous than under the EU's Water Framework Directive. Of course this raises major environmental and health concerns. But let us consider the economics too:

If English farmers and industrials are no longer bound by high standards on water pollution – wouldn't they gain a decisive – and unfair – cost advantage?

We have no issue with regulatory divergence. It is normal that the UK wants to set its own standards and rules. But if these serve to distort competition with us, then we have a problem.

And there are other areas where the UK insists on being able to diverge substantially from its current standards as of 1 January 2021. I am thinking, for example, of the food sector.

Here, not only is the UK looking to go back on protections for Geographical Indications secured in the Withdrawal Agreement. It has also given us no reassurance on the future sanitary and phyto-sanitary regime that the UK will apply after 1 January 2021. How can we make progress on sanitary and phyto-sanitary issues when we have no idea how the UK's system will evolve?

'We are not bureaucrats.... honest'

These are not technocratic details. They are essentials. At stake are tens of thousands of European jobs and livelihoods – Irish jobs and livelihoods. Our health, safety and wellbeing. Our environment and climate. Our fundamental rights.

Of course, Ireland's particularly close relationship with the UK makes these questions even more important. Especially for businesses exporting to Great Britain or competing with British companies.

'Northern Ireland stays part of the EU'

Thankfully, the Withdrawal Agreement means that we have a stable solution for goods traded between Ireland and Northern Ireland, without a hard border on the island. This is essential to protect the all-island economy.

This is precisely why our second important task, before the end of the year, is to ensure the full and effective implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement – in particular as regards citizens' rights and the Protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland.

This remains an absolute priority for the EU. It is the only way to protect the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement in all its dimensions. And therefore to protect the gains of the peace process, which people like David Trimble, John Hume, Seamus Mallon, Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley worked so hard for – with the support, of course, of successive Irish and British governments, and of the EU.

• A precise implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement is also the only way to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland and preserve the all-island economy.
• It is the only way to preserve the integrity of the Single Market, and all its guarantees for consumer protection, public and animal health, by ensuring all the necessary checks and controls for goods entering Northern Ireland.

And, of course, it is a precondition for us – the EU and the UK – to be able to forge a meaningful partnership built on trust. In recent months, under the impetus of Michael Gove, the UK has started to make progress on the implementation of the Protocol. This is encouraging. But important questions remain open.

• The EU needs to be sure that the Union Customs Code will be applied in its entirety for goods arriving in Northern Ireland.
• Similarly, we need to know that goods leaving Northern Ireland respect all applicable EU export procedures and formalities.
• And we need to be certain that all necessary controls are carried out on live animals or animal-derived products arriving in Northern Ireland from Great Britain and the rest of the world.

 

'EU the peacemaker and the Good Friday Agreement'

To ensure that this agreement works on the ground as of 1 January 2021, the UK still needs to complete many practical preparations – time-consuming and resource-intensive preparations. And, of course, we will also continue be extremely vigilant when it comes to ensuring the full respect of citizens' rights under the Withdrawal Agreement – both in the UK and in the 27 EU Member States. Together with Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič, we continue to follow closely the UK's actions.

The rigorous implementation of the Protocol will serve to protect peace and stability on the island of Ireland. And of course, an ambitious future partnership with the UK would help limit the negative impact of Brexit for Ireland, for the EU and for the UK.

But even with these two pillars in place, there will be big changes on 1 January 2021. On that date, the UK will leave the Single Market, the Customs Union, all EU policies, and all of our international agreements. This is its choice – not ours.

'Even with a trade agreement the EU will make life as difficult as possible'

Let me mention just a few examples of what this means concretely:

• On that date, customs formalities will apply to all our imports and exports with the UK.
• On that date, the EU will no longer recognise UK type-approvals for cars.
• On that date, financial institutions established in the UK will lose the benefit of the EU's ‘financial passports'.

No trade agreement – no matter how ambitious – can change this. Businesses, public administrations and citizens must urgently get ready for these changes.

Here again, Ireland's unique geographical situation means that it will be particularly affected. Many Irish importers and exporters rely on the UK as a key route to and from the rest of the EU; their ‘land bridge' to and from the EU. We have been working with Ireland, and relevant Member States, to ensure that this key connection to the Single Market remains effective. The UK's participation in the Common Transit Convention will certainly help in this regard.

On the EU side, our major entry and exit points are ready. But there are still concerns as to the readiness of some key UK ports. And Irish businesses, transport operators, ports and shipping companies will all have to play their part in adapting to the new situation. Many already have:

• Shipping companies have increased capacity on direct services to the continent.
• Businesses are reorganising their distribution chains and diversifying their markets.

More generally, Ireland has done very good preparatory work. I particularly commend the Government's “Getting Ireland Brexit Ready” campaign. And I know this work is continuing. I trust in your capacity to adapt to new times.

Finally, to help stakeholders across the EU to prepare, the Commission adopted a “Readiness Communication” on 9 July.

• We have also published more than 80 sectorial [sic] notices with more detailed guidance, which are being translated into all EU languages.
• And we are working with all 27 national administrations to make sure that these changes are communicated clearly and understood by all.

 

‘We want a deal – it’s the UK that is preventing this’

As we near the finish line, I still have hope that – despite current tensions – our common history with the UK, shared values and joint commitment towards multilateralism will prevail. ….. I continue to think that Prime Minister Boris Johnson wants an agreement with the EU. He confirmed this recently to your Taoiseach Micheál Martin.

This is also the wish of Presidents Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel, the European Parliament and the 27 Heads of State or government. We will do everything in our power to reach an agreement. Until the very end. But, we will not sacrifice – never sacrifice – the EU's long-term economic and political interests for the sole benefit of the UK.

In past months, the EU has repeatedly shown flexibility and creativity to work with the UK's red lines: on the role of the European Court of Justice, on preserving the UK's legislative autonomy and on fisheries. It is time for the UK to reciprocate on those issues that are fundamental for the EU.

I will be back in London next week for our eighth negotiating round, as planned. And I sincerely hope to be able to tell you a new story after that round – a story of real, tangible progress in all areas.

Go raibh míle maith agaibh. Thank you.

- Michel Barnier, Dublin, Wed 02 Sept 2020

- The full speech is available here.

Observations

 

Why aren't there EU safety standards for the effectiveness of their negotiators?

It's sometimes hard to believe that we voted for our independence from the sclerotic EU monolith well over four years ago, isn't it? Monsieur Barnier was appointed by all three major institutions in November of that year, 2016. We suggest he is now well past his sell-by date and is incapable of achieving anything worthwhile.

Sadly it is now too late to fire Monsieur Barnier and replace him with an EU negotiator who might actually be able to negotiate a sensible trade deal with the UK. Regular readers will know that we proposed this in previous articles. He has been repetitive for months and his inability to understand the sea-change in the negotiations since the Johnson Government took over last December in the UK has been painful to watch.

The best we can now hope for is that Mr Barnier be moved quietly out of the way, with mini-teams in the German and possibly other major EU governments taking effective control. In reality it will be Frau Merkel who will decide in any event, and the French, Italians, and others will be persuaded to fall into line.

No fun for Lord Frost

We ask readers to spare a thought for UK Chief Negotiator David Frost and his team. They thought they were negotiating a trade deal with the EU. Instead they were faced with a federalist ideological zealot from the Monnet-Schuman school of EU superstate central planning.

Instead of spending most of their time on trade discussions, Monsieur Barnier and his team have imposed weekly agendas where trade has been the minority part. It is clear to us that negotiations have gone as far as they can possibly go – and this has been the case for a long time now.

A deal would make sense, but the EU don't often do sense

If the EU is serious about doing a sensible trade deal along the lines of a “Super-Canada” agreement, (author: David Campbell Bannerman, 10 years on the EU Parliament's International Trade Committee), it must act now. Immediately. It won’t, naturally. It will let precious time go by, as it always does.

There have been many detailed papers produced which provided a variety of answers to a great number of the trade and other issues involved, including the 'Alternative Arrangements' paper for the NI/RoI border back in 2017, to the most recent paper this year from the Centre for Brexit Policy, advocating 'Mutual Enforcement'. Unfortunately the EU has had its own agenda for the UK, called punishment.

If the EU does not act immediately, then the UK Government must pull out all the stops and prepare for an exit on WTO terms – something we have advocated for almost five years. Once again we call on the Government to introduce daily press briefings along the lines of those for the Coronavirus, and start getting the country ready. There is now no time to lose.

 

[ Sources: EU Commission ] Politicians, journalists and Pink'Un Remainiac W⚓s can contact us for details, as ever.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org, Sat 05 Sept 2020

Edited September 6, 2020 by Jools

[Herman 9,779]

FFS. What a clown. 

[Bill 1,788]

46 minutes ago, Jools said:

I'll hazard a guess you never summarised or provided a synopsis on books at school...

I'll hazard a guess at your synopsis of To Kill a Mockingbird

Crooked lawyer tries to get BLM rioter off a guilty charge

Weird pedo tries to groom children with gifts

Black rioter is shot (thankfully) after trying to escape his punishment

Story tells how society should be structured

[SwindonCanary 455]

I've noticed that these lefty's only want something bad for Britain, what's up with them ? 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

Just now, SwindonCanary said:

I've noticed that these lefty's only want something bad for Britain, what's up with them ? 

what bad things do you imagine anyone, leftie or otherwise, wants?

[Bill 1,788]

5 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

what bad things do you imagine anyone, leftie or otherwise, wants?

tolerance, freedom of movement for UK citizens in Europe, a ban on filthy food from the US, UK farmers protected from said filth, no roaming charges in the EU, nor medical costs. UK regional foods protected as with air and water quality, workers rights protected not border between Britain and NI.......... all the things Swindo and his fellow bigots want abolished

[Jools 584]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

FFS. What a clown. 

Say's the fairground freak that posts the following:

[Herman 9,779]

Damn straight. 👍

[Jools 584]

4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Damn straight. 👍

You'll be supporting Ipsh*te next 🙃

[Herman 9,779]

If Norwich were taken over by some rancid RWNJs I would seriously consider it.

[Jools 584]

35 minutes ago, Bill said:

tolerance, freedom of movement for UK citizens in Europe, a ban on filthy food from the US, UK farmers protected from said filth, no roaming charges in the EU, nor medical costs. UK regional foods protected as with air and water quality, workers rights protected not border between Britain and NI.......... all the things Swindo and his fellow bigots want abolished

😀  The days of playing politics and hiding behind antiquated arguments that've been dispelled a myriad times previously are done, Billock...

Scraping the barrel, Billock... Give up.

[BigFish 1,988]

48 minutes ago, Jools said:

• The British won’t do as we say
• They want to be an independent, sovereign country and we can’t allow that
• We would rather sacrifice hundreds of thousands of jobs than do a sensible trade deal with the British
• If there’s no deal it’s not my fault – blame the British

Lets unpick this for @Jools.....

The British won’t do as we say - True, if also what Frosty the snowman says about the EU today. The EU have told the UK there is a deal to be had if they compromise on some fishing rights, state aid & a level playing field. The UK have refused.

They want to be an independent, sovereign country and we can’t allow that is missing the clause ....."access to the single market and customs unions without the associated responsibilities"

We would rather sacrifice hundreds of thousands of jobs than do a sensible trade deal with the British in part true, but @Jools had added the specious  sensible  . What the EU is saying is they are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of jobs in order to protect the achievements of the Single Market and Customs Union.

 If there’s no deal it’s not my fault – blame the British This is clearly True.

 

[Bill 1,788]

1 minute ago, Jools said:

😀  The days of playing politics and hiding behind antiquated arguments that've been dispelled a myriad times previously are done, Billock...

Scraping the barrel, Billock... Give up.

still lying I see - you are as bad* as hand crank

 

 

* same ?

[SwindonCanary 455]

you hated it when I gave you good news about Britain and Brexit !

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

10 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

you hated it when I gave you good news about Britain and Brexit !

What good news was this?

[SwindonCanary 455]

25 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

What good news was this?

Barnier stating that we would do good if we left !

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

17 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Barnier stating that we would do good if we left !

What he is saying is that the UK will have a competitive advantage IF the EU was to give the UK the deal that the UK was trying to achieve 

This is unacceptable to the EU and therefore quite likely it won't happen 

Therefore your comment is invalid 

[SwindonCanary 455]

he was saying if we got a free deal =scared him !

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

1 minute ago, SwindonCanary said:

he was saying if we got a free deal =scared him !

What makes you think the EU is going to give us that sort of deal

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

3 hours ago, Jools said:

For instance: British proposals on rules of origin would help the UK to develop its role as an assembly hub for the EU! They would allow the UK to source goods from around the world and export them, with very little alteration, to the EU, as British goods: tariff- and quota-free!

• British proposals on road transport would allow British truckers to drive on EU roads without having to comply with the same working conditions as EU drivers.
• The UK's proposals on air transport would allow British airlines to operate inside the EU without having to respect the same labour and environmental standards.
• In the area of energy, the UK is asking to facilitate electricity trade without committing its producers to equivalent carbon pricing and state aid controls.
• In this area, as in others: without a common framework on state aid, the UK government would be free to hand out subsidies at will.

I should have known that post on the previous page weren't your own words, despite you not posting a link or using quotation marks 

What do you make of these comments, quoted above? 

[SwindonCanary 455]

he's scared stiff about it. because he'd hate to see us do well outside the EU.   Which will happen if we get it  

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

21 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

he's scared stiff about it. because he'd hate to see us do well outside the EU.   Which will happen if we get it  

We are outside the EU!

Do you think we will do well with no  deal with our nearest trading partners? If so, how?

[NFN FC 1,123]

10 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

We are outside the EU!

Do you think we will do well with no  deal with our nearest trading partners? If so, how?

Because we have an empire that stretches all around the globe making us a formidable force in any trade deal negotiations.... Oh wait

[Herman 9,779]

If you can read this it looks like a deliberate attempt to scupper any trade deal.

https://www.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-0c29-4f5f-9cb0-130c75a2f7a7