The Positive Brexit Thread

[horsefly 4,310]

15 minutes ago, Herman said:

And he is the reason why I think Labour's approach to brexit is the right one. There are millions of chumps that still won't admit that brexit has changed the way of how everything works and how it has made life so much harder. 

Brexiters, climate change deniers, covidiots etc are all similar. It doesn't matter how much evidence is shown to them they will never change their mentality. Brainwashed masquerading as free thinkers.

 

It does make you wonder doesn't it! These idiots are the same people who, pre-Brexit,  joined the "EU Member" queue at airport customs; they probably even chuckled as they scooted through in minutes while the "Non-EU" queue lengthened. Seems they were unable to make the mental leap that Brexit would mean they would personally lengthen the Non-EU queue. Ceteris paribus for Dover.

[Herman 9,820]

This is relevant.

"The application was rejected, however, with Dover receiving just £33,000 for an unrelated project, according to a list of the PIF awards seen by the Financial Times."

[A Load of Squit 5,215]

Nothing about Brexit has aged well.

 

[Herman 9,820]

 

[sonyc 5,541]

59 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

Thank god for Led by Donkeys. Thank god for comedians like Stewart Lee.

👏👏

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

9 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Nothing about Brexit has aged well.

 

lols

Despite Brexit: 

[A Load of Squit 5,215]

33 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

lols

Despite Brexit: 

Chaos has moved to Eurotunnel.

https://news.sky.com/story/traffic-news-live-uk-updates-dover-ferries-hit-as-delays-mount-amid-critical-incident-and-fuel-protests-set-to-cause-chaos-in-several-cities-12656718

Simon Calder explains.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

4 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Chaos has moved to Eurotunnel.

https://news.sky.com/story/traffic-news-live-uk-updates-dover-ferries-hit-as-delays-mount-amid-critical-incident-and-fuel-protests-set-to-cause-chaos-in-several-cities-12656718

Simon Calder explains.

 

Both are true. Brexit is the reason that the French now stamp every passport; the French not staffing adequately is the cause of the backlog. 

The only answer is to diversify away from France for shipping towards Belgium and Holland. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,820]

Brexit zugswang.

There's a few big flaws in that idea too Birdie.

The are other answers to the problem but brexiters aren't ready to go there so we'll just have to watch as the economy goes down the pan.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Herman

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Brexit zugswang.

There's a few big flaws in that idea too Birdie.

The are other answers to the problem but brexiters aren't ready to go there so we'll just have to watch as the economy goes down the pan.

There are others, but ensuring that France doesn't have too much leverage over us to strongarm us every time it's unhappy is simply necessary now. If France can't/doesn't want to deal with the changes then alternative approaches have to be found that don't rely on France. 

The other interesting solution I was reading about yesterday was getting lorries off of ROROs altogether and move to short sea shipping instead on container ships to the continent. This would cut out the expense of paying drivers to sit there doing nothing as customs processes are pursued, Holland, in particular has seen a growth in this from the UK already, apparently. It's also more environmentally friendly than ROROs. 

 

https://www.hrwallingford.com/Possible-renaissance-in-UK-coastal-shipping

Edited July 25, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,820]

You've really got to stop blaming everything on others for the choices the country made. Do that and we can start fixing the problems. 

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

I thought the British liked and were good at queuing - perhaps the queues at Dover / Folkestone are actually a Brexit Bonus we can show the world! One of very few.

More sensibly it appears every peak transit day (Friday and Saturday) could be similar - and then wait until next year when the European 'ESTA' will be needed too - as well as stamping passports (I've gained an Italian and Swedish one - first time in decades - plus the usual US one in the last few months). I guess many Brits when in the the EU had simply forgotten what normal customs / immigration border controls are like worldwide let alone the list of restricted items one can carry.

Kent, the car-park or England.  

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

48 minutes ago, Herman said:

You've really got to stop blaming everything on others for the choices the country made. Do that and we can start fixing the problems. 

The choices are blamed and that's fair enough. The choices are also made and there's nothing that can be done about them. On the other hand, taking steps to bypass a French government, that is more than happy to use transit as a political lever, is perfectly reasonable. The fact that the French government responds to the queues with a gallic shrug and saying 'Brexit', instead of taking steps to improve things tells us that there there is no other choice than to reduce dependence on France, just like Europe has to reduce its dependence on Russian gas. 

France's operations at Calais, not to mention tourism to the North of France from the UK, will doubtless pay the price of those choices by the French government in the long run. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[horsefly 4,310]

9 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Both are true. Brexit is the reason that the French now stamp every passport; the French not staffing adequately is the cause of the backlog. 

The only answer is to diversify away from France for shipping towards Belgium and Holland. 

But wasn't it the UK that demanded that passports were stamped, in order to "protect our borders"?  Wouldn't they demand exactly the same of Belgium and Holland? 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

But wasn't it the UK that demanded that passports were stamped, in order to "protect our borders"?  Wouldn't they demand exactly the same of Belgium and Holland? 

I suppose it's a question of how prepared Holland and Belgium are to provide staff to stamp passports fast enough. Seeing as they stand to win a lot of business at France's expense, I'm sure they will. 

Going back though, given that customs is a slower process, post-Brexit, whatever you do, lorries on roll-on-roll-off ferries no longer make sense compared to short sea container shipping across to the continent. It's then mostly a question of whether continental Europe wants tourism or not as to whether they take the measures to prevent the queues we're seeing in Dover. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

7 minutes ago, horsefly said:

But wasn't it the UK that demanded that passports were stamped, in order to "protect our borders"?  Wouldn't they demand exactly the same of Belgium and Holland? 

Yes - wherever you enter the 'EU' you'll get your passport stamped now that we're a third country. I hinted at that with my earlier comment on Italian and Swedish stamps. Simply entering the EU wherever isn't as straightforward as it used to be so join the queue and don't complain.

Obviously for the Brexiteers they have to always automatically blame somebody else and simply by reason of geography it's the French. That said I'm sure both sides of channel will be a little better prepared next weekend.

[horsefly 4,310]

12 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I suppose it's a question of how prepared Holland and Belgium are to provide staff to stamp passports fast enough. Seeing as they stand to win a lot of business at France's expense, I'm sure they will. 

Given that it is impossible to increase the number of kiosks processing passports (as explained by an expert on LBC yesterday) there is no way of mitigating the effect of hold-ups caused by the longer passport checks demanded by the UK.

[sonyc 5,541]

11 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Obviously for the Brexiteers they have to always automatically blame somebody else and simply by reason of geography it's the French. That said I'm sure both sides of channel will be a little better prepared next weekend

People who voted for a hard border with France  now complain there is a hard border with France!

France has also invested €863m in updating Calais. An investment completed in time. As Herman posted yesterday we eschewed making similar investment. France desperately wants tourism (and the trade). The French also like to come to the UK but now face difficulties.

As for stamping of passports it was the UK that asked for this I read - further, it provides evidence for the 90 days in any 180 day allowance for UK citizen stays on Europe as part of Brexit legislation.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by sonyc
Grammar

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

13 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - wherever you enter the 'EU' you'll get your passport stamped now that we're a third country. I hinted at that with my earlier comment on Italian and Swedish stamps. Simply entering the EU wherever isn't as straightforward as it used to be so join the queue and don't complain.

Obviously for the Brexiteers they have to always automatically blame somebody else and simply by reason of geography it's the French. That said I'm sure both sides of channel will be a little better prepared next weekend.

No, you can complain, and you can start sending more traffic through more routes with different countries to encourage competition to maximise efficiency on their end. At least that way we'll know for sure how much is really down to whether it's impossible to have smooth-functioning borders with the EU without being an EU member or a member of the single market. 

To France's credit, they are actually increasing staffing by 50% to speed up flow, so it's nice to see there is still some constructive interaction going on. 

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-07-20/port-of-dover-installs-more-border-control-booths-in-attempt-to-reduce-delays

Edited July 25, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

52 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

No, you can complain, and you can start sending more traffic through more routes with different countries to encourage competition to maximise efficiency on their end. At least that way we'll know for sure how much is really down to whether it's impossible to have smooth-functioning borders with the EU without being an EU member or a member of the single market. 

To France's credit, they are actually increasing staffing by 50% to speed up flow, so it's nice to see there is still some constructive interaction going on. 

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-07-20/port-of-dover-installs-more-border-control-booths-in-attempt-to-reduce-delays

There are several other routes to France which I don't think had any particular issues - Newhaven-Dieppe; Portsmouth-LeHavre etc.

As SC points out it has little to do directly with France but simply Dover/Folkestone to wherever is simply a pinch point always on the edge of massive delays and that coupled with a lack in investment on the British side has resulted in well foretold exceptional delays at peak time. I do wonder what return delays there will be on the French side to to UK border control - unless of course we waive our controls 😉

Personally  - I prefer to overnight Harwich- Hook of Holland if I'm driving to northern Europe. 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

You would think and hope that anyone making the return journey with a UK passport would be waved through with minimal checks by our border force officers stationed in Calais and Dunkirk (etc).

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

31 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

You would think and hope that anyone making the return journey with a UK passport would be waved through with minimal checks by our border force officers stationed in Calais and Dunkirk (etc).

You will still need/get your 'exit' stamp!

Edited July 25, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

You will still need/get your 'exit' stamp!

Doh! I fell into the Brexit trap!

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

Saw this article - might help explain the issues and why it could get much worse next year at Dover/Folkestone (the automatic ID checks - yes you'll all have to get out of the car/van/coach and be like at airports).

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/25/kent-travel-chaos-fix-brexit-blame-dover-folkestone

[Herman 9,820]

ITMA.

 

[Herman 9,820]

'Six French people being late for work is enough to bring our economy to a grinding halt?" James O'Brien.

This simple sentence highlights how ludicrous some of the claims are.

[horsefly 4,310]

39 minutes ago, Herman said:

ITMA.

 

Impossible for Calder to be any clearer about where the blame lies. The worrying thing is that the French still haven't applied the full range of checks agreed with the UK. If they really wanted to make things worse they could quite easily and legitimately do so.

[Mr Apples 1,327]

There'll be plenty of dopey doggies who listen to the whistle.

On another related point (general British idiocy), why do all these silly pr*cks insist on going away on the first days of the summer holidays...you've got six weeks you know? 🤔🤣

Apples

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

Another Brexit 'reality' not myth.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/26/british-wine-wholesaler-leave-uk-over-post-brexit-paperwork

I rather like one of his parting comments -

“In just one week I will finally leave Brexitland for good. Let me know if anyone ever finds those sunlit uplands. Not expecting an answer anytime soon,” he posted last week.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Herman 9,820]

Apologies if I missed this, but it is funny anyway. They all knew what they were voting for.🤣

"Holidaymakers have reacted with fury at the new rules which the Spanish Ministry of Interior introduced now the UK falls under the "third country" category since leaving the EU."

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/brexit-fury-tourists-new-rule-85-to-spend-per-day-spain/