The Never-President Trump

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

20 hours ago, Herman said:

How do we prove to people like IBT and Jools that Trump is as dodgy as hell when all we have is his words, deeds, court documents, witness statements, photographic evidence, newspaper columns, television programmes and testimonies from his old friends? 

It's an uphill struggle. 

You can't. They're retarded. Trying to reason with them is like giving Viagra to the dead.

[horsefly 4,310]

16 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I’m well aware of how representative democracy works, but you’re suggesting that those MPs shouldn’t have to worry about the opinions of those they’re actually representing. You then slam the electorate for then voting in different MPs who do promise to act in their interests.

You seem to imply that MPs should be able to act as they please irregardless of public sentiment and not then have to worry about the prospect of failing to be re-elected for ignoring their constituencies wishes.

I agree that while they’re an MP they can do as they please in Westminster, but they also have to explain those decisions at the subsequent election. Complaining that people are voting the wrong way is a pathetic cop out. If the public are voting for other parties it’s because you haven’t listened to their concerns, no other reason.

The last election was an example of this. Despite the EU referendum being close in absolute numbers, two thirds of MPs represented seats that voted to leave. Many spent the next few years ignoring the result of their constituency and paid the price for it at the next election when Johnson won a landslide by promising to enact the result 

I’m well aware of how representative democracy works

You clearly don't, otherwise you wouldn't keep banging on about MPs having to support majority popular opinion.

you’re suggesting that those MPs shouldn’t have to worry about the opinions of those they’re actually representing

Except I have said absolutely nothing of the sort. I said MPs are obliged by the fundamental principles of our representative democracy to represent all their constituents (a completely different claim).

You seem to imply that MPs should be able to act as they please irregardless [sic] of public sentiment and not then have to worry about the prospect of failing to be re-elected for ignoring their constituencies wishes.

Again, I neither said nor implied anything of the sort. Only an idiot MP would ignore the opinions of her constituents. But only a corrupt and immoral MP would think that licences her to provoke hatred against minority groups in her constituency. Sadly we have too many MP's like that in the ruling party. We elect MPs as representatives not delegates. We expect them to use their judgement to make decisions in the best interests of the country, the entire country, not just a particular section of the population.

I agree that while they’re an MP they can do as they please in Westminster

We don't agree, because I don't think anything of the sort.

they also have to explain those decisions at the subsequent election 

We do agree on that. It's a rather obvious feature of representative democracy that MPs are accountable for their actions. Good luck trying to find anything I've said which contradicts that.

Complaining that people are voting the wrong way is a pathetic cop out. If the public are voting for other parties it’s because you haven’t listened to their concerns, no other reason.

?????

Many spent the next few years ignoring the result of their constituency and paid the price for it at the next election when Johnson won a landslide by promising to enact the result 

And many will lose their seat for supporting the corrupt, inept Johnson and his disastrous Brexit deal when Labour likely win by a landslide at the next general election (so what's your point?). I've lost count of the number of people I've met (or read about) who voted leave and who now complain they were lied to about the so-called benefits of Brexit. A perfect example of people who wish their politicians had not simply given in to popular prejudice but had acted in the best interests of the country.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

40 minutes ago, horsefly said:

And many will lose their seat for supporting the corrupt, inept Johnson and his disastrous Brexit deal when Labour likely win by a landslide at the next general election (so what's your point?). I've lost count of the number of people I've met (or read about) who voted leave and who now complain they were lied to about the so-called benefits of Brexit. A perfect example of people who wish their politicians had not simply given in to popular prejudice but had acted in the best interests of the country.

This !

Edited January 19 by Yellow Fever

[horsefly 4,310]

4 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

You can't. They're retarded. Trying to reason with them is like giving Viagra to the dead.

Mind you, you still end up with a stiffy

[horsefly 4,310]

6 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

He's bat sh!t mental & he's being interviewed by Sean Insannity.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-who-tried-to-overturn-his-election-loss-claims-biden-is-a-threat-to-democracy/

During an appearance on Thursday’s Hannity, former President Donald Trump claimed that President Joe Biden is “a threat to democracy.”

Trump infamously attempted to overturn the 2020 election, which he falsely claims was rigged against him. After that contest, he pressured Republicans in states he lost to subvert the results so he could remain in power. After those efforts failed, he urged then-Vice President Mike Pence to refuse to certify the results in Congress as the presiding officer. When Pence declined, a mob stormed Congress and sparked a deadly riot while Trump reportedly watched it all on television while ignoring lawmakers’ pleas to send help.

In short, Trump tried to end AmericanTrump democracy.

The irony of this is that Hannity was one of those desperately texting Trump and his aids to intervene to stop the insurrection. Trump ignored him. In the aftermath Hannity and Tucker Carlson exchanged messages in which they shared their common despair and hatred of Trump. Now, of course, they yet again have their heads firmly rammed up the crook's rancid butt.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,771]

This should work out well

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

14 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

He's bat sh!t mental & he's being interviewed by Sean Insannity.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-who-tried-to-overturn-his-election-loss-claims-biden-is-a-threat-to-democracy/

During an appearance on Thursday’s Hannity, former President Donald Trump claimed that President Joe Biden is “a threat to democracy.”

Trump infamously attempted to overturn the 2020 election, which he falsely claims was rigged against him. After that contest, he pressured Republicans in states he lost to subvert the results so he could remain in power. After those efforts failed, he urged then-Vice President Mike Pence to refuse to certify the results in Congress as the presiding officer. When Pence declined, a mob stormed Congress and sparked a deadly riot while Trump reportedly watched it all on television while ignoring lawmakers’ pleas to send help.

In short, Trump tried to end AmericanTrump democracy.

FBI Warns Of Extremist MAGA Plot To Go To A Polling Location And Vote For Preferred Candidate

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. — According to sources, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has uncovered a terrifying plot by MAGA extremists to show up at local polling locations across the country this November to vote for their Presidential candidate of choice.

"Make no mistake, these terrorist threats are credible and were confirmed by multiple intelligence sources and FBI field offices," said FBI Director Christopher Wray to reporters. "We are advising all law enforcement departments to be on high alert for potential MAGA operatives visiting various voting booths this fall to vote for the people they think are the best candidates, such as Trump, even though he is a yucky poophead and I hate him."

"This threat to democracy cannot be overstated."

Unnamed intelligence sources confirmed that on November 8 of this year, millions of militant MAGA zealots will take a short break from their usual schedule of running small businesses, raising families, and peacefully abiding by the law to infiltrate voting booths and cast votes for the political figures who are their favorites. "Our democracy is hanging by a thread, and we might lose it if we allow all these people to vote according to their beliefs," said Wray.

At publishing time, the FBI had uncovered another disturbing plot by far-right MAGA agents to support border security.

Edited January 19 by Iwans Big Toe

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

6 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

This should work out well

Trump should be indicted for "insurrection". Biden, and not his son, needs to be indicted for corruption (Burisma), Obama needs to be indicted for ordering the summary execution of a 16 year old American national without a trial, G W Bush because there were no "weapons of mass destruction" (labeled a conspiracy theory by main stream media at the time, just saying) found and Clinton needs to be indicted because "he likes them young".

I agree, no living president should be above the law, so all of them should be prosecuted for their crimes, regardless of if they are Democrat or Republican. I'm struggling to find something to accuse Carter of but I'm sure if I can do a bit of digging.

 

 

[horsefly 4,310]

Trump's dementia is getting worse day-by-day. Rambling incomprehensible speeches, constantly mixing up names, conspiracy theory paranoia etc, etc etc. Shocking!

 https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1748549375519814007?s=20

[horsefly 4,310]

11 hours ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

FBI Warns Of Extremist MAGA Plot To Go To A Polling Location And Vote For Preferred Candidate

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. — According to sources, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has uncovered a terrifying plot by MAGA extremists to show up at local polling locations across the country this November to vote for their Presidential candidate of choice.

"Make no mistake, these terrorist threats are credible and were confirmed by multiple intelligence sources and FBI field offices," said FBI Director Christopher Wray to reporters. "We are advising all law enforcement departments to be on high alert for potential MAGA operatives visiting various voting booths this fall to vote for the people they think are the best candidates, such as Trump, even though he is a yucky poophead and I hate him."

"This threat to democracy cannot be overstated."

Unnamed intelligence sources confirmed that on November 8 of this year, millions of militant MAGA zealots will take a short break from their usual schedule of running small businesses, raising families, and peacefully abiding by the law to infiltrate voting booths and cast votes for the political figures who are their favorites. "Our democracy is hanging by a thread, and we might lose it if we allow all these people to vote according to their beliefs," said Wray.

At publishing time, the FBI had uncovered another disturbing plot by far-right MAGA agents to support border security.

You support a rapist to become president. Forget the political implications of that, what do you think that says about your moral judgement? 

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/

[A Load of Squit 5,202]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Trump's dementia is getting worse day-by-day. Rambling incomprehensible speeches, constantly mixing up names, conspiracy theory paranoia etc, etc etc. Shocking!

 https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1748549375519814007?s=20

He's bat sh!t mental.

Edited January 20 by A Load of Squit

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

10 hours ago, horsefly said:

You support a rapist to become president. Forget the political implications of that, what do you think that says about your moral judgement? 

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/

Todays main headline, Democrat appointed judge, Lewis Kaplan, rules against Trump. In other news water is wet.

 

 

[horsefly 4,310]

She loves him so much

 https://x.com/joncoopertweets/status/1748478836432347263?s=20

[horsefly 4,310]

34 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

Todays main headline, Democrat appointed judge, Lewis Kaplan, rules against Trump. In other news water is wet.

 

 

Nope! Judge Kaplan pointed out that a federal jury found Trump liable for rape. Their verdict, not his.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Nope! Judge Kaplan pointed out that a federal jury found Trump liable for rape. Their verdict, not his.

Ahh yes a federal jury in the Republican stronghold of New York, where no one hates Trump and we would certainly be able to find an impartial jury of his peers. We might as well have just cloned you 12 times and appointed you to the jury it would have been equally as unbiased.

Try again.

Oh and what does it say about your moral judgment that you think a judge appointed by Bill Clinton who attended Epstien Island and likes them young, should be an arbiter of right and wrong?

 

 

[horsefly 4,310]

7 hours ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

Ahh yes a federal jury in the Republican stronghold of New York, where no one hates Trump and we would certainly be able to find an impartial jury of his peers. We might as well have just cloned you 12 times and appointed you to the jury it would have been equally as unbiased.

Try again.

Oh and what does it say about your moral judgment that you think a judge appointed by Bill Clinton who attended Epstien Island and likes them young, should be an arbiter of right and wrong?

 

 

Juries that defence lawyers get to select, you buffoon. You clearly don't have a clue about the process of jury selection for federal trials that rigorously checks people's potential prejudices. 

Edited January 21 by horsefly

[horsefly 4,310]

Trump's dementia decline continues. He can't even remember the word "climate" 

https://x.com/SeanOhhhh/status/1748907102506995954?s=20

[horsefly 4,310]

Is this IBT? We must be told 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1748579400843767835

 

[sonyc 5,541]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

Is this IBT? We must be told 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1748579400843767835

 

As one response states..."It's a cult. Period"

And that means there is literally no point in thinking that people like that will ever change.  Debate likewise with Trump supporters is futile. It doesn't matter about any facts. Facts themselves are not to believed anyway. Black is literally white and forget any shades in between. Maybe the slightest chance of agreeing a shade of orange.

 

[Well b back 3,262]

11 hours ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

Ahh yes a federal jury in the Republican stronghold of New York, where no one hates Trump and we would certainly be able to find an impartial jury of his peers. We might as well have just cloned you 12 times and appointed you to the jury it would have been equally as unbiased.

Try again.

Oh and what does it say about your moral judgment that you think a judge appointed by Bill Clinton who attended Epstien Island and likes them young, should be an arbiter of right and wrong?

 

 

I should google how jurors are appointed in America, but you won’t find in your normal search engines.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

18 hours ago, horsefly said:

Is this IBT? We must be told 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1748579400843767835

 

So if you are going to continue with the ad hominem attacks, I will respond. (including sonyc, TheGunnShow and of course A Load of Squit who is always living up to his name)

 

I would like to start by pointing out that I am not trying to win you over to my side. I couldn't care less because I have always known that is impossible. You are a brainwashed hypocrite that can't think for yourself. You are reliant on the mainstream media to inform you what is right. I truly feel sad for you that you have no independent thought of your own and you need to rely on the mainstream media to tell you what to think when it comes to politics. I know you can't understand nuanced thinking, because Orange Man Bad! You have proven this over and over again by not acknowledging or answering my questions. It does not prove your intellect by dodging questions. Calling someone who questions you a “moron” does not de facto make you intelligent

 

As I have previously stated (see my response to Daz), I am not a particular Trump supporter, I just disagree with your view point. I know you are so insecure in your viewpoint that you need to belittle anyone that disagrees with you and for that I pity you.

 

It is tragic that you can't get on with people who don't agree with you. What I find even more pathetic is that you are unable to answer questions that are posed to you because you know the answers won't fit with your “world view”. It's almost little man syndrome. So it begs the question, are you over 5”6'? Or does insulting people on the internet make you feel 6" tall?

 

Don't break your habit and now decide to answer one of my questions, because if you do I will want answers to previous questions. In stead I will just continue to imagine you as a 5"1' lonely man who is reliant on the internet to make them feel big and if you disagree I will know you are lying because you have finally decided to answer a question where it doesn't paint you in a negative light.

 

 

Edited January 22 by Iwans Big Toe

[Herman 9,818]

22 hours ago, sonyc said:

As one response states..."It's a cult. Period"

And that means there is literally no point in thinking that people like that will ever change.  Debate likewise with Trump supporters is futile. It doesn't matter about any facts. Facts themselves are not to believed anyway. Black is literally white and forget any shades in between. Maybe the slightest chance of agreeing a shade of orange.

 

Sadly this is bang on the money. How can you debate with people who accuse and get angry about one side doing the same thing that their guy has actually done. It doesn't make any sense to me. 

Anyway, Desantis has thrown in the towel. Shame, he seemed to be such an honest and authentic guy. 😂

[cambridgeshire canary 6,771]

On 20/01/2024 at 08:37, horsefly said:

You support a rapist to become president. Forget the political implications of that, what do you think that says about your moral judgement? 

Judge clarifies: Yes, Trump was found to have raped E. Jean Carroll

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/19/trump-carroll-judge-rape/

So why was he not arrested and thrown in jail? To honest I don' tthink Jean herself refusing to say it was rape and instead saying "it was a fight" helped her case

Edited January 22 by cambridgeshire canary

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

19 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

So why was he not arrested and thrown in jail? To honest I don' tthink Jean herself refusing to say it was rape and instead saying "it was a fight" helped her case

Civil Case.

[horsefly 4,310]

46 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

So why was he not arrested and thrown in jail? To honest I don' tthink Jean herself refusing to say it was rape and instead saying "it was a fight" helped her case

It was a civil action

[horsefly 4,310]

23 hours ago, sonyc said:

As one response states..."It's a cult. Period"

And that means there is literally no point in thinking that people like that will ever change.  Debate likewise with Trump supporters is futile. It doesn't matter about any facts. Facts themselves are not to believed anyway. Black is literally white and forget any shades in between. Maybe the slightest chance of agreeing a shade of orange.

 

Spot on sonyc. Time to stop feeding the troll, I think.

[sonyc 5,541]

7 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Spot on sonyc. Time to stop feeding the troll, I think.

My response was to that clip you shared H. The interviewer was trying really hard to get that interviewee to explain. But he couldn't and more importantly, wouldn't.

In US politics there is no point really with such entrenched views. Same with Capitol Hill. 

As for IBT I'm sure he has said before he is not a Trump supporter and I've shared responses before on topics. So I'm surprised I've received a personal reply etc. 

Trump is a divisive figure and you can see just how he divides the public against each other. He creates imagined enemies.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

15 minutes ago, sonyc said:

My response was to that clip you shared H. The interviewer was trying really hard to get that interviewee to explain. But he couldn't and more importantly, wouldn't.

In US politics there is no point really with such entrenched views. Same with Capitol Hill. 

As for IBT I'm sure he has said before he is not a Trump supporter and I've shared responses before on topics. So I'm surprised I've received a personal reply etc. 

Trump is a divisive figure and you can see just how he divides the public against each other. He creates imagined enemies.

The odd thing SC is that whatever your political views in the UK I can see nothing good for the UK (or anybody else) coming form Trump. Beyond all the litigation and imbecilic rhetoric its simply a me first then America crude isolationism.

What could we expect - Breakup of NATO, US import tariffs on everything - Trump cosying up to Putin and I guess Xi too. I suppose that would drive forward by necessity for protection other regional alliances - the EU etc.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,574]

48 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The odd thing SC is that whatever your political views in the UK I can see nothing good for the UK (or anybody else) coming form Trump. Beyond all the litigation and imbecilic rhetoric its simply a me first then America crude isolationism.

What could we expect - Breakup of NATO, US import tariffs on everything - Trump cosying up to Putin and I guess Xi too. I suppose that would drive forward by necessity for protection other regional alliances - the EU etc.

A US pullout from NATO would not be the end of NATO. The framework is too well-evolved and effective to abandon. The UK and France would have to radically increase our nuclear weapons programmes to provide a credible strategic deterrent and other NATO members would have to up their arms spending.

Edited January 22 by littleyellowbirdie

[Nuff Said 5,157]

57 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

A US pullout from NATO would not be the end of NATO. The framework is too well-evolved and effective to abandon. The UK and France would have to radically increase our nuclear weapons programmes to provide a credible strategic deterrent and other NATO members would have to up their arms spending.

Putin would see a US withdrawal as encouragement to try and push his aggressive stance with former USSR-aligned countries, so a likely escalation of the existing war with Ukraine and possible new conflict nearby. Which would require a response from those left in NATO.

 

It’s pretty easy to see how things would deteriorate, hard to see an upside of a decision to leave, whether or not the organisation survives.