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lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel)

The new signings are not good enough.

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Early days yes, but come on. That performance was diabolical.

Zimmerman and Franke were clueless and bullied all afternoon. They were constantly indecisive and didn''t know when to attack or stand off.

Vrancic and Steipermann... the game completely bypassed them. Vrancic is a complete luxury player and not suited to the rigours of the championship. That is definately clear at this early stage.

Husband... possibly the worst signing we''ve made in a long time. Can''t defend, can''t attack, has no pace... what does he do?

Today was men against boys. I''m really really concerned with this squad. We need a a couple of proper midfielders asap, to properly replace Howson and the ageing Tettey.

I''m sure I''ll get slammed for this early judgement. But I''m convinced I''ve seen enough to suggest most of Farkes singings are not cut out for this league. Simply the wrong type of players.

Gunn and Reed are the only two who look good enough. And there both only on loan.

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Some of our best ever signings have taken much longer to show their quality.

Ridiculous that you''re writing all the new signings off at this point - it''s effectively a brand new squad, manager and style of play.

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I would suggest we still need at least 3 more as well.

Certainly cover for Pinto, another striker (small & pacy). However it''s clear we need a LB as I have seen nothing from Husband to suggest he is good enough for this level. Oh for Mitchell Dijks now...

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It''s not Ian. We''ve taken a backward step from last season.

It not so much that I''m completely writing them off, but more that there just the wrong type of players.

Vrancic will never consistently perform at this level. I so confident of that. Zimmerman will have the occasional good performance and may come good, there is something there, but Franke? He''s well out of his depth.

From what you''ve seen, do you think these players will come good?

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Suprised you''ve left out Husband. Think he looks the worst of all the newbies.

But if you wanna sign the 3rd choice left for a club you aim to be competing with then you get just that.

Poor going forward and defensively. Think Jamal Lewis would''ve got a run out had he not had to undergo surgery.

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As I have mentioned before. The new signings are Fernando Derveld, Raymond de Waard and Julien Brellier mk 2.

We have now gone into the time of struggle against relegation to League One

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I have doubts. This is not the same as being silly/arrogant to say things like "Vrancic will never consistently perform at this level" or "Husband...worst signing in recent times".

Please stop dressing your hyperbolic opinion as fact, thanks. :)

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Yep, none of them are good enough as you clearly know better than Webber, Farke and their scouts who no doubt have seen hundreds of hours of these players rather than a couple games.

Zimmerman wasnt even bought as a first choice CB but actually think him and Franke have potential.

Vrancic isnt going to get stuck in but hes a good footballer who sees passes. The assist for Oliveira was quality on Wednesday. Reed is a very good footballer.

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lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) ~ [quote]Early days yes, but come on. That performance was diabolical.

Zimmerman and Franke were clueless and bullied all afternoon. They were constantly indecisive and didn''t know when to attack or stand off.

Vrancic and Steipermann... the game completely bypassed them. Vrancic is a complete luxury player and not suited to the rigours of the championship. That is definately clear at this early stage.

Husband... possibly the worst signing we''ve made in a long time. Can''t defend, can''t attack, has no pace... what does he do?

Today was men against boys. I''m really really concerned with this squad. We need a a couple of proper midfielders asap, to properly replace Howson and the ageing Tettey.

I''m sure I''ll get slammed for this early judgement. But I''m convinced I''ve seen enough to suggest most of Farkes singings are not cut out for this league. Simply the wrong type of players.

Gunn and Reed are the only two who look good enough. And there both only on loan.[/quote]I guess Huddersfield supporters weren''t too pleased with their German coach and cheap German signings (Christopher Schindler - £1,800,000 - Michael Hefele & Chris Löwe - free transfers) when they, in 7 consecutive matches from 12th October to the 28th November last season, lost 5, won 1 and drew the other [:|] Huddersfield also had a dreadful run at the end of last season losing 6 of their last 10 games -- Yet they still managed to get promoted.Could it be we''re having Huddersfield''s poor run/s at the beginning of this season? And might there be the possibility that these German staff will come good as they have proved at Huddersfield? And how is that German coach doing at Fleetwood?One more question, Lincoln: Are you Anti-German?

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Gunn and Reed are the only two who look good enough.

Sorry but I have to disagree. Gunn doesn''t look good enough to me. You are moaning about the players not being ''clueless'' but you are prepared to accept a rookie goalie, who in my opinion who has had no experience of, and, isn''t good enough for this level.

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Don''t mention Huddersfield all the time. There is no guaranty down the road that Norwich is going to suceed in the way that Huddersfield did just because there is appointed a German Manager/Head Coach. Based on the Villa game there is lack of everything needed to pick up points on a regular basis to gain the target of promotion. The Huddersfield promotion was almost as unexpected as Leicester winning the Premier League and Norwich ending third in the first ever Premier League table at the end the 1992/93-season.

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Nonsense re saying new signings are not good enough. What is certainly true is that some of them have not played well enough to date. But many are young. Many are new to English football. Many are playing together for the first time. Most are adapting to new system. That does NOT mean we should all sit back and just wait for it all to miraculously get better: a lot of hard work needs to be put into this. If not we will continue to see the kind of defending we saw in the first half at Villa.

The point is we really don''t know whether they''re good enough or not yet. That will be evident on the basis of whether, over time, they improve and adapt.

I guess our views are shaped by what we expected from this season. I expected it to be a learning exercise, with some bumps and mistakes along the way. Certainly not promotion. So, as long as we see improvements over time, and the system beginning to gel, and the new players being able to better understand each other, and that they''re generally learning from errors, then I would be happy with that.

And - in my opinion - we cannot come close to judging how the season might pan out from 4 games.

If it doesn''t improve markedly over a sensible time period (I would say by Christmas) then I''ll be worried and maybe alternative action will be needed, but four games, with so many injuries and all the other factors mentioned?

Yes, much has been poor, but to extrapolate that over half a season / a season is highly presumptuous I feel.

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Many of the players are young?

Franke, Zimmerman and husband are 23/4 aren''t they? That''s not that young at all, and big improvements don''t come much after that age.

Steipermann 26?

Vrancic 28?

We haven''t got the squad of players to wait and see if these guys are up to it. They''ve been bought to replace key players.

4 games and pre season is enough time to make some early judgement. I''ll gladly be proven wrong, but I''ll put my neck on the block and say all of the above will not consistently perform at this level, and whilst they remain key players we''ll finish in the lower half of this league.

All singings are a risk, but these were too much of unnecessary risk.

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4 games and you are acting like this. What are you proposing we should do now? Get rid of this lot, get in another load, wait 4 games and if they''re not good enough get in another load? It is not enough time to make a stupid judgement like you have made. The 4 you are picking on have only been in England for a couple of months, and are still learning how frantic the English game is FFS.Stop making ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and give the guys a break.

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We''ll see then Herman.

I don''t think it''s stupid to make early judgements at all. These are professional players. If it was the other way round, for example the new players were scoring and playing well, people would be happy to make early judgement and praise such fantastic signings.

If you can''t see that there is some fundamental issues with the likes of Vrancic, Franke, Zimmerman & Husband then you must be burying your head a bit.

We could have bought better from the championship and league one. We can''t afford 10-15 games for these players bed in, especially when there is a real risk they may not even be able too.

We''ve replaced key players with risky singings.

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[quote user="Herman"]4 games and you are acting like this. What are you proposing we should do now? Get rid of this lot, get in another load, wait 4 games and if they''re not good enough get in another load? It is not enough time to make a stupid judgement like you have made. The 4 you are picking on have only been in England for a couple of months, and are still learning how frantic the English game is FFS.Stop making ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and give the guys a break.[/quote]

I mean, I agree with all this...

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We were always going to have to wait for the foreign players to get to grips with the championship, people were happy enough when we kept signing new players. The fact is we were on a tight budget and signed players who were either inexperienced and British or had no experience of playing in the English game, to write those players off already would be stupid.You''d have to be extremely naive to not expect erratic performances to begin with under this situation.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]We''ll see then Herman.

I don''t think it''s stupid to make early judgements at all. These are professional players. If it was the other way round, for example the new players were scoring and playing well, people would be happy to make early judgement and praise such fantastic signings.

If you can''t see that there is some fundamental issues with the likes of Vrancic, Franke, Zimmerman & Husband then you must be burying your head a bit.

We could have bought better from the championship and league one. We can''t afford 10-15 games for these players bed in, especially when there is a real risk they may not even be able too.

We''ve replaced key players with risky singings.[/quote]No what I am saying is that you''ve only given them four games to prove you wrong. 3 haven''t played in England before. So, yes, it is stupid to make judgements after such a short time.And every signing is risky.

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Lincoln Canary, I think you''re absolutely right that it''s fine to make judgments, be they good or bad. But to be so negative, so soon and with so much certainty seems way premature.

If we had a striker who had scored two goals a game for the first four we would naturally be ecstatic, and it might rightly be suggested that he would score 20+ goals and be a massive boost to the team, giving us a better chance of promotion. But I don''t think we''d be saying that because of this (and maybe some other new signings who had also hit the ground running) that we would be odds on for automatic promotion, after four games.

Judgment in what we''ve seen is entirely reasonable. As is your own judgment on how you see the season working out from here. But this ''it''s obvious that so many of them are not good enough and the whole-scale changes that we made are clearly not working'' seems a very premature overreaction.

Of course we don''t like losing, nor playing poorly, but I think a bit more context (no, I don''t think pre-season and four games gives us enough evidence to accurately predict end of season standings) and more time (Christmas in my view to get all this newness working properly) needs to be allowed to enable any of our judgments to be more credible.

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[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Husband looks like a League Two player.[/quote]No he doesn''t. He just needs a bit of support, as do the rest of the players who are new to the club. Give them some time to develop understanding and teamwork. Pre-season was all very well, but getting used to the pace of championship level - as well as getting rapport with your teammates when under fire - will take time.

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