Theoretical scenario.

[morty 0]

[quote user="SwindonCanary"]Not bothered about how we do it, but if we win I''d have a lovely drive home buzzing about how he''s turned it around and looking forward to the next match and the start of a run.   [/quote]Good man.We need more supporters like you.

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

I''ll be delighted if AN turns things around - I suspect his autocratic methodology wont enable that to happen though, as it''s a dated way to get things done.

Newcastle are well ahead & it''ll take some doing to catch them - however it remains possible.

[Bagster 101]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Its Character Forming"]

I''ll be there.  For me...

 

If we play badly and lose or draw, I will still think AN needs to go.

 

If we put in a really good performance, with the players looking committed and organised, and get a win, then I will be delighted and I will hope it shows AN can turn it around - although one game would only be the start.

 

If we play badly and are lucky to sneak a win, I''ll be glad because I always want City to win, but I''ll have mixed feelings because I will still think AN needs to go.

 

Never happy to see City lose.  But I do wonder if we''re at one of those "First Wiz" points when getting rid of the manager is more important than a single result.  He''s had plenty of time to turn it around, with no sign of improvement.

[/quote]I don''t disagree with much of that, but on the last point, I take a step back and think about the fact it was only a month ago we were top of the league and Alex was manager of the month, and I start to consider, is there a certain amount of overreaction happening?You could look at in the context of we got relegated, thats done, it happened, its put in a box. Just in the context, of what is happening this season, I think there could be shades of self entitlement.[/quote]

Morty I don''t disagree with this thinking but when you look deeper at the statistics you see that maybe top of the league was a little flattering. When you get to the half way mark its a more accurate assessment to how we are doing.

As it stands we have generally done well against the bottom half teams but not so well against top half teams.

It certainly doesnt suggest promotion to me but hopefully my assessment is wrong.

[sonyc 5,541]

Would be delighted with a win at Derby. In my years of examining tables, where you are between 23rd and 30th November (or nearest weekend) in 9 times out of 10 is where you''ll end up at season end. I would consider the play offs a success as my expectations were lower pre season. And that is because we thought (lots of the fans, plus board? plus Manager?) we could do well, automatic being spoken about ( even up to recent weeks).

I remain unconvinced I have to say and have been so on this forum for months. The performances I always felt belied our early position. The defence is so vulnerable, the attack so one tracked. And the set up for games has been weird at times. Recently it has looked like throwing a dice and hoping for some sixes. I''m just not sure with him. He has lost so much of his style. It started at St James'' Park after the 6-2. A lovely to watch team ( a la Leicester 2015) disappeared. It left him a scar. And of course all has been less than satisfactory at board level. These things are always linked (imho) and for my take, we are going backwards.

Like many, getting rid of Alex N is not a panacea. I''m not confident that a new bloke will sort it. But given a choice of trying to do something ( and let''s say we remain in 6th) between now and the next window, I would ( as a board member) be casting my vote for change. I would do so with concern, with sorrow but the club must go forward.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Bagster"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Its Character Forming"]

I''ll be there.  For me...

 

If we play badly and lose or draw, I will still think AN needs to go.

 

If we put in a really good performance, with the players looking committed and organised, and get a win, then I will be delighted and I will hope it shows AN can turn it around - although one game would only be the start.

 

If we play badly and are lucky to sneak a win, I''ll be glad because I always want City to win, but I''ll have mixed feelings because I will still think AN needs to go.

 

Never happy to see City lose.  But I do wonder if we''re at one of those "First Wiz" points when getting rid of the manager is more important than a single result.  He''s had plenty of time to turn it around, with no sign of improvement.

[/quote]I don''t disagree with much of that, but on the last point, I take a step back and think about the fact it was only a month ago we were top of the league and Alex was manager of the month, and I start to consider, is there a certain amount of overreaction happening?You could look at in the context of we got relegated, thats done, it happened, its put in a box. Just in the context, of what is happening this season, I think there could be shades of self entitlement.[/quote]

Morty I don''t disagree with this thinking but when you look deeper at the statistics you see that maybe top of the league was a little flattering. When you get to the half way mark its a more accurate assessment to how we are doing.

As it stands we have generally done well against the bottom half teams but not so well against top half teams.

It certainly doesnt suggest promotion to me but hopefully my assessment is wrong.[/quote]I find it odd to explain, I really do.The massive swing in the results. Simplistically you could just say that its because we have played better teams, but its a very odd contrast, it really is.

[Chemical Bro 0]

There will always be a large section of supporters against Alex Neil from here on in.

There was a section against him coming into this season.

As a result it''s probably best for both parties to move on. Otherwise we will have this situation later on in season at a much more crucial time.

In summary i feel the writings been on the wall since end of last season.

[morty 0]

[quote user="sonyc"]Would be delighted with a win at Derby. In my years of examining tables, where you are between 23rd and 30th November (or nearest weekend) in 9 times out of 10 is where you''ll end up at season end. I would consider the play offs a success as my expectations were lower pre season. And that is because we thought (lots of the fans, plus board? plus Manager?) we could do well, automatic being spoken about ( even up to recent weeks).

I remain unconvinced I have to say and have been so on this forum for months. The performances I always felt belied our early position. The defence is so vulnerable, the attack so one tracked. And the set up for games has been weird at times. Recently it has looked like throwing a dice and hoping for some sixes. I''m just not sure with him. He has lost so much of his style. It started at St James'' Park after the 6-2. A lovely to watch team ( a la Leicester 2015) disappeared. It left him a scar. And of course all has been less than satisfactory at board level. These things are always linked (imho) and for my take, we are going backwards.

Like many, getting rid of Alex N is not a panacea. I''m not confident that a new bloke will sort it. But given a choice of trying to do something ( and let''s say we remain in 6th) between now and the next window, I would ( as a board member) be casting my vote for change. I would do so with concern, with sorrow but the club must go forward.[/quote]Okay, heres another scenario.Lets hold our hands up and say we should have got rid of more players after we were relegated. Lets say that we have really poor defenders, that we are pretty much stuck with, we can''t sack em all. Lets just admit that perhaps we aren''t as good, generally, as we thought we were.Stepping back from all that, is rolling the dice on a new manager really the right answer, or are we going full Canary call here and saying "Well he couldn''t do no worse, could he?"

[sonyc 5,541]

This is an interesting question. It''s about having the trust that a new manager can engender team spirit and get more out if the current group. So many examples of that happening I don''t need to list. I mean with new management teams. Charlton looked lost and won 1-5 away last night and are 3 points from a play off position ( with our best goalie in the team grrrrrr). As you know though, all managers fail in the end. Sometimes you get a dead cat bounce with a new effect lasting a short while. Other times ( like Alex Neil) you get Wembley and new belief. Whatever he had, he hasn''t got at the moment.

[The Unsullied 0]

There is no chance we will beat Derby

[morty 0]

[quote user="sonyc"]This is an interesting question. It''s about having the trust that a new manager can engender team spirit and get more out if the current group. So many examples of that happening I don''t need to list. I mean with new management teams. Charlton looked lost and won 1-5 away last night and are 3 points from a play off position ( with our best goalie in the team grrrrrr). As you know though, all managers fail in the end. Sometimes you get a dead cat bounce with a new effect lasting a short while. Other times ( like Alex Neil) you get Wembley and new belief. Whatever he had, he hasn''t got at the moment.[/quote]Thats a fair assessment, its not an easy question.

[Chemical Bro 0]

"with our best goalie in team"

Wasn''t in Charlton''s squad last night but nevermind ey

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,041]

Be happy that we have won (particularly given Derby are in a good run of form) and hope that we are making steps to recovery, which is further evidenced by a home win against Brentford.......

[Donkey dangler 0]

[quote user="morty"]We win on Saturday.Whats your plan?[/quote]

With our current manager, you are obviously having a giraffe

[andyc24_uk 63]

The best possible thing that could happen IMHO is for the board to unveil Roy Hodgson as Director of Football at the AGM. We know he''s heavily connected with the board, and I think most people see him as the most likely choice if we do change manager before the season is out. He'' may not be a particularly inspiring choice as manager but he has a ton of experience which is what Neil is lacking and which is costing us at the moment, and adding him to the staff now would bring stability and a more solid link between the footballing staff and the board.

That would potentially buy Neil a few more weeks to turn things around, with guidance from an experienced mentor if and when necessary; and if he proves unable to do that would leave us with an obvious candidate already ''bedded in'' to the club to step into his shoes BEFORE the transfer window, should Neil''s position become completely untenable over the final weeks of the year.

Speaking of the transfer window, having someone with vast experience, ''big-name'' recognition and a huge network of contacts who could be given the remit of spending the next 10 weeks focusing on getting in quality additions would also be a huge benefit to the club.

I really, really hope Delia has this particular ace up her sleeve, because much as I appreciate the vision of building a team of fantastic younger players for the long term, without doing something right now, it''s going to be completely irrelevant.

[sonyc 5,541]

Sure, new goalie wants a slice of the action. And not saying Rudd is all the answer but rate him above Mc govern and think John''s time is more behind him unfortunately. But then chemical bro, I would be giving more younger players games. Easy being an armchair manager!

[Donkey dangler 0]

andyc24,

Unless we sell one or more players, what do you propose we do for money to buy players with?

[sonyc 5,541]

Very good post andyc24. Like that idea but could it happen with such drama like that? Heavily doubt it. Would indeed be a rabbit pulled from a hat.

[Chemical Bro 0]

[quote user="sonyc"]Sure, new goalie wants a slice of the action. And not saying Rudd is all the answer but rate him above Mc govern and think John''s time is more behind him unfortunately. But then chemical bro, I would be giving more younger players games. Easy being an armchair manager![/quote]

Take a breath sonyc.

[morty 0]

[quote user="andyc24_uk"]The best possible thing that could happen IMHO is for the board to unveil Roy Hodgson as Director of Football at the AGM. We know he''s heavily connected with the board, and I think most people see him as the most likely choice if we do change manager before the season is out. He'' may not be a particularly inspiring choice as manager but he has a ton of experience which is what Neil is lacking and which is costing us at the moment, and adding him to the staff now would bring stability and a more solid link between the footballing staff and the board.

That would potentially buy Neil a few more weeks to turn things around, with guidance from an experienced mentor if and when necessary; and if he proves unable to do that would leave us with an obvious candidate already ''bedded in'' to the club to step into his shoes BEFORE the transfer window, should Neil''s position become completely untenable over the final weeks of the year.

Speaking of the transfer window, having someone with vast experience, ''big-name'' recognition and a huge network of contacts who could be given the remit of spending the next 10 weeks focusing on getting in quality additions would also be a huge benefit to the club.

I really, really hope Delia has this particular ace up her sleeve, because much as I appreciate the vision of building a team of fantastic younger players for the long term, without doing something right now, it''s going to be completely irrelevant.[/quote]I too have been beating the "Woy for DOF" drum.Just not as manager, please.

[king canary 7,678]

Happy to be corrected on this but I''m not sure I can think of an example of ''old manager appointed as DoF'' really working. All it seems to do is lead to pressure on the current manager as his ready made replacement sits waiting in the wings. DoF (or technical director) is a specialist role in its own right and generally the most successful ones aren''t ex managers.

[Chemical Bro 0]

If AN was to accept a DOF right now then he will be onto a hiding to nothing.

If fortunes turn around it will down to the DOF and not him (people will say).

[Midlands Yellow 4,082]

No one has a crystal ball , people''s opinions on whether the manager should go are based on past results and probability of winning future games .

2nd Favourites to win this division at the start with other teams fans very envious of the squad at Norwich. I can only think of three good performances , Bristol at home, Forest and Wolves away .Even when we''re 2 goals clear in a match your never shocked when it starts to go wrong .

[Len 74]

A win would prolong the pain and do huge damage to the club.Nothing more than a draw would do. A draw would at least give fans the prospect of watching Neil get torn to pieces versus Brentford.

[Woodman 92]

AN doesn''t strike me as the type of person who would welcome or accept help and advice from a Director of Football.

[morty 0]

It''s not just for him, it''s obvious that the board could do with a bit of footballing experience in regards to transfers and contracts.

[Midlands Yellow 4,082]

They all need to go . When you take the Sky money you have to dance with the devil.

Even West Brom (who never fill their ground ) were attractive enough for foreign investment .If we had been lucky enough to have stayed up last season would there have any other club following our model in football ownership ?

[morty 0]

So sack everyone?

Great stuff.

[norfolkngood 1,090]

Morty as we are asking what if questions

what would you thoughts be if we lost against derby ?

if we played well but lost still keep him ?

if we got turned over badly ?

interested when your turning point is for him to go

as you know i wanted him gone last season

[morty 0]

Already stated, same as I have with previous managers, that as soon as it is obvious that he has lost the dressing room, and players no longer have any faith in him, then it''s time to go.

I was at QPR, and yes we lost, but there was still signs of fight there.

The players definitely need to stand up and be counted though, not just the manager.

[Tumbleweed 106]

The danger is that we fall into the Hughton situation where every so often he would eke out a win, seemingly giving him more time. The Derby result would need to be looked at in the context of results over an extended period. The Board should, in my mind, pick a date and say- by that time how over the past 12 months or so have we progressed? It is too easy to pick up on one good result and say all is fine. Just as easy to pick one bad result and think it is gloomy.

By the end of November, looking over that extended period, what has the trend been? If you conclude that a change is needed then go and do it and give a new guy a month to be found and assess January transfer needs. If you conclude its OK then pick a new date, say the end of Feb, and stick with it until then when you make the same assessment. Lurching from game to game is not, to me, a strategy.