Batten down the hatches

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

In view of our on-coming fixtures, which will be tougher than the ones gone by, and until we can hopefully better our defensive options in January, I personally feel that AN now has a need to adopt a more defensive approach than hitherto exhibited.

Not exactly Pulis City, but more ''safe mode'' as I like to put it.

As a basis, I would start every game with both Tettey and Mulumbu in front of the defence. Every game. If one is injured then I would plumb for either Dorrans or O''Neill, but I would like to see Vadis given a try as well.

I would start NO games with both Hoolahan and Howson in midfield, the combination is too lightweight. Besides, Howson has been quite off recently and Hoolahan is Hoolahan. As good as he can be, I feel there will be as many occasions when he should start the game on the bench as start the game on the pitch, if not more. If he ends up solely as impact sub then this is just the way his ageing career has been pointing for a few seasons now, in any case.

Our main threat at the moment now seems to come from the left hand side. I would play to this as much as is reasonably possible by including all three of Olsson, Brady and Jarvis, with Brady between the two. I feel that this combination enhances both attack and defence.

Because of this strength and as things seem to stand, I would start with two up front as I feel that the combination of both Jerome and Mbokani (who I see as a ''find'') could be quite troublesome and lethal in the air and in attack in general. They offer differences, a combination of which might work. If they get stuck in mud, then Grabban and/or Hooper can present a variable alternative.

Redmond would always usually be first on my team-sheet, but in view of the above, might occasionally have to be sacrificed to accommodate another body in central midfield.

I would stick with Ryan Bennet for the time being as I feel that he is clearly on a par with the other two and needs settling back into the role in any case. Whether alongside Martin or Bassong is debatable, so perhaps both combinations should be tried. A space for Whittaker would enhance our attacking options and besides, the fact that he was singled out as being most culpable in our recent defensive inadequacies is a bit unfair because, as I see it, it was a collective failure.

It''s easy when you are a screen supporter, and regular attendees will see things differently, but the basic principle of a defensive bias by having double security in front of the defence whilst the apparent contradiction of having two up front feeding off more direct service from the left might be turn out to be more effective than the current pretty, pretty mid-field stuff that eventually mostly gets stifled by opposing defences. This is more evident at Carrow Road and has contributed to our poor home record thus far.

We hammered WBA for periods of Saturday''s game but had few openings. By contrast, they seemed to cut through us like a knife through butter and I thought they always looked more dangerous when coming forward than we did. Another lynch pin at the back might have prevented this.

As I said, it''s easier when watching a screen but, one way or another, AN will clearly have to do more than just tinker with his approach over the coming weeks.

[westcoastcanary 0]

Forget January; the idea that we can get in that window what we couldn''t get in the summer is wishful thinking. I agree broadly with what you are saying, but the defensive frailties have been in evidence from the first game and lack of quality in the back four are far from being the principle reason. More relevant are Ruddy''s weakness behind them, and lack of awareness by too many in front of them (fuelled by too much emphasis on attacking over defending). The most worrying thing is that AN hasn''t yet shown any readiness to adjust, or even acknowledged the real problem. His response to the Newcastle defeat was IMO completely misguided and if anything made matters worse.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

WCC.

Agree about the problems of strengthening in January, and our precarious position may even make it harder to manage this than in the Summer.

I''ve long had an inkling for Curtis Davies, but with Hull looking promising and us floundering he would not now see a move to Carrow Road as upward, even if Bruce was inclined to loosen his grip and not want an excessive amount for the player''s signature.

We may unearth a gem, from somewhere.

As for Ruddy, who I forgot to mention, it''s difficult to assess the extent to which he is contributing towards our problems at the back, as I see it. For sure, he''s not the ''keeper Arsenal apparently once wanted and it would be opportune to give young Rudd a chance on the Premier League stage. Lambert did all those seasons ago, but he was more of a dare devil than AN.

[Making Plans 957]

Our defence doesn''t have a "safe mood" because they are not capable, either individually or collectively, of concentrating for 90 minutes.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

I a bad ''mood'' today MP?

Me too.

"Safe mode is intended to help fix most, if not all problems within an operating system. It is also widely used for removing rogue security software."

Extra cover then with Tettey and Mulumbu to fix problems.

"Rogue security software?" Whittaker, Bassong, Martin, Ruddy?

Take your pick.

I have often supported RM in particular in the past, but now, reluctantly, include him amongst the rest as a potential weakness. Facts and figures speak for themselves.

[YorkshirePudding 0]

''Our main threat at the moment now seems to come from the left hand side. I would play to this as much as is reasonably possible by including all three of Olsson, Brady and Jarvis, with Brady between the two''

And in what formation would you manifest this?

[lake district canary 4,826]

Yeah. Lets batten down the hatches and go for  0-0''s...............or we could send for Chris Hughton.........what are you lot afraid of?  Losing by a big margin?  Well we are just as likely to lose big playing defensively as we are attacking - so we might as well have a go and lose 6-2 rather than 6-0.  We may even surprise a few teams - and some of our own fans.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

"Yeah. Lets batten down the hatches and go for 0-0''s...............or we could send for Chris Hughton.........what are you lot afraid of? Losing by a big margin? Well we are just as likely to lose big playing defensively as we are attacking - so we might as well have a go and lose 6-2 rather than 6-0. We may even surprise a few teams - and some of our own fans."

Sorry LDC, but nobody is suggesting that we go from one extreme to the other. I have, for example, muted a two up front approach.

It''s becoming increasingly clear, to me at least, that we will continue to struggle for points if AN does not assume a slightly more defensive approach and continues with the current personnel, in it''s entirety, in defence.

The problem of accommodating Olsson, Brady and Jarvis, would seem to emphasise the difference between wide mid-fielder and winger, as it exists today. I would have Brady for the former and Jarvis on the ''wing.''

[ricardo 8,033]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Yeah. Lets batten down the hatches and go for  0-0''s...............or we could send for Chris Hughton.........what are you lot afraid of?  Losing by a big margin?  Well we are just as likely to lose big playing defensively as we are attacking - so we might as well have a go and lose 6-2 rather than 6-0.  We may even surprise a few teams - and some of our own fans.

[/quote]The only fans who will be surprised are those who thought mid table would be plain sailing.There are two sides to football, attack and defense and ignoring one at the expense of the other will lead to disaster. You attack and defend as a team, something we are clearly not doing at the moment.We are in a league where most teams are collectively better than us and concentrating all our efforts on the attacking aspect will see that our ar$e$ get kicked more often than not.

[whoareyou? 0]

I reckon Brady could play in the hole behind the striker and leave Wes out now and again. He certainly would have more of a goal threat. That way we can play both Jarvis and Brady ...or play Jarvis in there, Brady left mid...or Redmond in there and play Jarvis R/M.

[93vintage 16]

I always said this season would be a battle and questioned whether we were as good as many seemed to assume.Hughton only left 18 months ago, and when combined with years of underinvestment we''re learning that it''s hard to compete and build a footballing side virtually from scratch. There''s a sense that we''re trying to run before we can walk.I remember conversing on here with Bethnal Canary about playing football a la Hull or Swansea upon promotion. In principal I agreed, but I didn''t think we were good enough to do it. However we both agreed about the need for the footballing board to enforce a policy of investing in younger players, as that way we can build organically and be better equipped to be able to play a passing game without leaving the back gate open.If we want to stay in this division we need to play a more counterattacking game, so that we''re hard to beat and pick up points more regularly. Then we need to start investing in more youthful players for the long term health of the squad. We need to get some football brains on board at the club and get this sort of transfer strategy in place.The club''s in need of a shake up, best start now or we''ll fall even further behind. In the meantime AN needs to tighten things up.

[Iwans Big Toe 382]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"]Forget January; the idea that we can get in that window what we couldn''t get in the summer is wishful thinking. I agree broadly with what you are saying, but the defensive frailties have been in evidence from the first game and lack of quality in the back four are far from being the principle reason. More relevant are Ruddy''s weakness behind them, and lack of awareness by too many in front of them (fuelled by too much emphasis on attacking over defending). The most worrying thing is that AN hasn''t yet shown any readiness to adjust, or even acknowledged the real problem. His response to the Newcastle defeat was IMO completely misguided and if anything made matters worse.[/quote]I understand to an extent what you are saying about the past transfer window WCC. I think though that in all honesty we were setting our sights too high. We were looking at buying players that are a huge step up from the kind of players we have a t the club at the moment. Which is a grand idea and I would have been excited had we have pulled off the signing of Nkolou or Koulibaly. But we didn''t and we now find ourselves two center backs short.This is not a surprising fact as we released both Cuellar and Miquel, plus loaning out Turner. Now I am not saying that any of those three are the answer to our current problems, but I believe that there were central defenders available that would have been a step up on one or two of the players we have released. Rather than just looking at getting better than our best player, we should have had a fall back position of looking to buy better than our worst defender also. Then if we failed to sign the first choice defenders, which ultimately proved unsuccessful, we would still have improved the back line and not left ourselves short of numbers.As for AN''s response following Newcastle, I don''t think that he necessarily made matters worse, but I do think he was still a bit naive when it came to his tactics. The WBA goal was as a direct result of one of our fullbacks being caught too far up field. This is a theme that has been evident with many of the 20 odd goals we have conceded so far this season. Quite a few posters have pointed out this fact and if arm chair managers such as myself can see it, I expect every manager in the Premier League can too and will look to exploit it. AN has to be wiser in sending our full backs forward on the over lap. Jim Ross (of WWE fame) had a saying when I used to watch the wrestling "he went to the well one too many times". This is what AN does with the full backs bombing forwards. You can be certain that on pretty much every attack, you will see one or both of our full backs in the final third of the pitch. Now this would be fine if we had two holding midfield players who stay to help out the center backs for the inevitable counter, but we don''t and this is why we are often caught in a panic as we are short of numbers to defend the counter attack. Simply put, he needs to tell the full backs to hold their positions more often and if one goes, the other needs to stay and someone from midfield needs be prepared to drop into the space that they have left open from their overlap.

[nat_canaries 0]

To an extent we had that balance last season as when whitts went forward Martin went over and tettey could fill the gap at CB. And when Olsson went forward Johnson could track back. This season with the two wingers we seem to lack the cover down either side so maybe sacrificing one of the wingers and having at cm out wide would help the defence again. (Like the start of this season when we only seemed to concede from set plays). The only problem is we now lack a left footed cm so for balance it makes more sense for Redmond to make way.

[westcoastcanary 0]

@Iwan''s Big ToeIt is easy enough to say there were defenders available who would have been a cut above our existing ones, but who exactly? And even if you can name some, there is still the issue of whether we would have been an attractive proposition for them. Bournemouth, facing a similar problem, ended up signing Distin, of undoubtedly quality but over the hill. On Saturday Spurs put 5 past them with Distin playing.There''s absolutely no point in bemoaning real or imaginary might have beens. There are 10 games to be played between now and January 2nd and the pressing issue is what needs to be done to start winning or at least drawing games. The other teams have sussed us out, so AN has to change things, and just substituting X for Y while playing the same way is not the answer. We all seem to agree with Broadstairs about that.I do think AN made matters worse on Saturday. The Martin/Bennett combination was IMO less effective overall (i.e both offensively and defensively) than the Whittaker/Martin combination, and Albion were simply able to exploit the same space behind Redmond which has been highlighted time and again, match after match. I say the space behind Redmond, but Redmond spent most of his time elsewhere anyway (look at his heatmap), as a result of which Brunt was able to run up and down behind Maclean at will (again, look at his heatmap). No wonder Martin was exposed, and he didn''t even have the benefit of himself playing at RCB to help him out. It''s no good saying (as AN did afterwards) that crosses have to be stopped coming into the box, while not deploying sufficient resources to do it; nor is it any good saying defenders have to get their heads on balls that a confident keeper of Ruddy''s stature should be able to punch away. Ruddy leaves far too much to his defenders that he should be dealing with himself.

[grefstad 0]

The sad thing is that, even if we escape with a miraculous draw at Man C or at Chelsea, 2 unlikely draws does not make up for losing at Newcastle or not beating WBA at home.

I dont mind losing to the top teams every season, as long as we get results against the team we should get results against, because this will define our season.

Not results against Arsenal, Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Liverpool, Everton and other top teams.

It''s all about getting results against the WBA''s, Newcastles, Sunderlands, Bournmouths, Watfords, Stokes etc in this leagues.

When we don''t get results against these teams, it makes it so much harder to make up ground.

[grefstad 0]

"The WBA goal was as a direct result of one of our fullbacks being caught too far up field. This is a theme that has been evident with many of the 20 odd goals we have conceded so far this season. Quite a few posters have pointed out this fact and if arm chair managers such as myself can see it, I expect every manager in the Premier League can too and will look to exploit it.

AN has to be wiser in sending our full backs forward on the over lap. Jim Ross (of WWE fame) had a saying when I used to watch the wrestling "he went to the well one too many times". This is what AN does with the full backs bombing forwards. You can be certain that on pretty much every attack, you will see one or both of our full backs in the final third of the pitch. Now this would be fine if we had two holding midfield players who stay to help out the center backs for the inevitable counter, but we don''t and this is why we are often caught in a panic as we are short of numbers to defend the counter attack. Simply put, he needs to tell the full backs to hold their positions more often and if one goes, the other needs to stay and someone from midfield needs be prepared to drop into the space that they have left open from their overlap."

Well said, and I fully agree, Attacking with both fullbacks is a calamity in this league, and only works if you have pace in your holding midfielder(s) and central defenders. we don''t, so therefore, sending both your fullbacks up, in the same attack, is just crazy.

Finding the right balance between attacking and defending is so difficult when you have players with less pace than most of the competition. Having pace in your team can make you afford being a bit more adventurous than you otherwise would have been.

We lack pace, espescially centrally, and this has been exposed so many times this season, perhaps never so much as against Newcastle where Sissoko just breezed past Howson/Dorrans at will.

So, the problem is:

1. Stay slightly defensive with the midfield, giving us next to no emphasis on attack.

or

2. Use midfield to support attack (typically Howson/Wes), and leave us way too open to counters.

With the player material we have got, it seems to be a choice of one of these two options, and it is not working well in any case at the moment.

[smooth 114]

I think that there should be no qualms about mulumbu and tettey both starting, in fact when needed o''neil from the bench to replace them.

Our defence is weak, our squad that remained from our premiership relegation proved that.

For me I could see us play counter attack football.

Mbokani upfront with brady, Jarvis and Redmond supporting the attack.

Olsson, bassong, Bennett, martin at the back... as we all agree we need two starters in right centre back spot and right back spot. January is the only chance that will happen.

The only card we really have that can have a change is bringing mulumbu in to change our formation and style. We need to

We Dorrans, hoolahan and others on the bench

[YorkshirePudding 0]

I like the idea of Redmond playing in the hole but i think he may lack the experience and therefore awareness to make the passes.

[grefstad 0]

Really hard to see Redmond being used as anything more than an impact sub in coming games. The defensive problems we have when he is in the side are greater than when he is out of the side.

And, it is not balanced by his offensive contributions too often either.

I think AN will tinker with Redmond in coming games, but being mostly used as a sub.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

[quote user="grefstad"]Really hard to see Redmond being used as anything more than an impact sub in coming games. The defensive problems we have when he is in the side are greater than when he is out of the side.

And, it is not balanced by his offensive contributions too often either.

I think AN will tinker with Redmond in coming games, but being mostly used as a sub.[/quote]Agree with this, he''s not producing at either end of the pitch. We don''t have any other genuine right-sided midfielders in the squad, really, unless Jarvis can switch. Don''t like it when Howson or Dorrans are required to pull out wide either. they''re better in central areas. Vadis, perhaps?

[YorkshirePudding 0]

''he''s not producing at either end of the pitch''

He is our top scorer and generally looks quite threatening

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

[quote user="YorkshirePudding BSc"]''he''s not producing at either end of the pitch''

He is our top scorer and generally looks quite threatening[/quote]I thought he was awful on Saturday, and maybe that''s clouded my judgement a bit. However, we''re so vulnerable down the right, I think we need to prioritise supporting our defenders more, and Redmond''s lack of desire/ability to track back and tackle is costing us time and again. He needs a couple of games off the bench against tiring legs IMO. It''s easy to blame Whittaker/Martin, but the full-back''s job is so much more difficult when he knows he can''t rely on the guy ahead of him to chip in and help him out.It''s like the old Drury/Huckerby thing that was mentioned recently - when Redmond''s in a Hucksy kind of mood, it''s worth the sacrifice of a bit of defensive solidity, but in our current predicament I really don''t think we can justify starting him.

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

I''ve mentioned elsewhere that I can see Brady playing in front of Olsson and Jarvis switching to the right to play in front of the chosen RB. Mulumbu and Tettey playing centrally with EITHER Redmond or Hoolahan in the "floating 10" behind Mbokani, Jerome or even Grabban.

I think it would give us added solidity but still with enough pace and guile to be a threat going forwards.

I was rubbish at Champ Manager though.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]I''ve mentioned elsewhere that I can see Brady playing in front of Olsson and Jarvis switching to the right to play in front of the chosen RB. Mulumbu and Tettey playing centrally with EITHER Redmond or Hoolahan in the "floating 10" behind Mbokani, Jerome or even Grabban.

I think it would give us added solidity but still with enough pace and guile to be a threat going forwards.

I was rubbish at Champ Manager though.[/quote]That''d be worth a try, although a lot depends on Mulumbu''s distribution - if we have two ''safety first'' holding players, we''ll lack the verve and quick interplay to maintain a high-tempo passing game. I like Dorrans sitting deeper, as he is very capable of picking a quick, accurate forward pass, which Tettey absolutely isn''t. I thought Tettey was decent on Saturday, but Mulumbu and Dorrans could have potential.Oh, and get an old copy of CM00/01, and do lots of scouting in Scandinavia. You''re welcome. [:)]

[Cantiaci Canary 610]

The problem with playing uber defensively is that you concede ground and possession and give players like Ozil, Pedro and Silva time to patiently pick perfect passes.

If we had spent as many hours as West Brom drilling our team in how to cover gaps, minimise risks and hold out for clean sheets at all costs I would be more convinced but we clearly haven''t and we don''t have the quality to make up for that.

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

I wouldn''t be averse to Mulumbu and Dorrans at all, GD has impressed me with his passing since he arrived. Might be a touch harsh on Tettey who tends not to do a lot wrong, but we are going to need an incisiveness that he probably doesn''t possess. His loss of energy and "dirty work" in the centre might not be missed until it''s gone.

I think(hope) Mulumbu has more about him than just being a holding destroyer bits and pieces player but that remains to be seen.

In reply to Cantiaci, I don''t think the line up I''ve suggested is uber-defensive, but with Redmond moved inside it wouldn''t leave whoever the poor sod at Right Back is with such a nightmare. He''s also more prone to shoot (and score) from distance than Wes, so picking up the ball in that hole could pay dividends.

To be honest, we''re all just floating ideas because what we were doing has stopped working. Alex is far better qualified to find the solution, just got to hope he comes up with something pronto.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

Redmond could definitely be groomed into a number 10 - his composure and shooting has increased greatly under Neil. Under Hughton, his entire game seemed to be ''get the ball on the left, cut inside, cut inside, blaze shot miles high and wide of the far post/scuff shot wide of the near post'' (delete as applicable). Although his pace can get him in behind and to the byline, he seems particularly ineffective against deep-lying defensive lines that don''t give him the opportunity to do that. I have no doubt that he has the technique to improve his ability to play killer balls in the central third like Wes does, so maybe it''s worth a punt. Neil needs to adapt his tactics to survive, that much is clear - will be interesting to see how much he deviates from his stock tactics between now and Christmas.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Good OP but I do seem to recall the Liverpool game where we were much more tentative than usual, sitting back behind the ball and allowing them possession, keeping tight and not risking too many bodies when going forwards. Dare I say... it was a Hughton-esque performance...

The result was a 1-1 draw and yes, we did ride our luck at times and we did rely upon Ruddy (yes, Ruddy) to keep us in it but overall I felt we were worthy of the point. Luck, individual moments of brilliance and overall concentration are all vital in such fixtures and will be required again in our upcoming fixtures if we are to return a decent yield of points.

I felt that, after the Liverpool match, we had found a suitable balance in formation that could be altered accordingly depending on the ability of our upcoming opponents. Unfortunately it now appears that we have lost said balance and our naive, almost arrogant approach to the last 3 fixtures has resulted in us getting taught multiple lessons by more established premier league teams.

Having said that, I am not at all surprised that we lost to a strong Leicester side and believe that, overall, there is not much need for mass pant wetting just yet.

Take the Newcastle game. It was a very unique match. I remember us thrashing Millwall last season 6-1 in a game where Jerome actually missed a host of clear cut chances- we could have scored 10. The Newcastle game was a real life ''could have'' game. 6 shots on target. 6 goals. Had we even nibbled a small portion of the luck that Newcastle scoffed up over the course* of the game, then we would have got something out of the match.

*pun intended

I have to admit that I did not see the West Brom match but a 0-1 home defeat is not a shocking result. It seems that the opening goal of a match seems to be getting more important with every season, whilst home advantage seems to be getting equally less so. It is very unfortunately timed so I can understand that several eyebrows are now being raised - that''s one eyebrow raised on several people, not several eyebrows by one, although perhaps we follow one of the only clubs where some of its fans may be actually able to do that..

This is definitely the thinnest ice that AN has found himself stepping across in his career, but I don''t think we need to alter our style of play an enormous amount and have every faith in AN''s ability to tweak things and once again find that balance- returning to the performance levels demonstrated at the start of the season.

Starting with Man City..