Ian

[quote user="Gamera"]Now I''ve stuck by Worthy throughout this campaign to get shot of him, but it seems that before the season has really got underway I just want to see the back of the guy. I''m not talking about Leeds yesterday, although I''m not best pleased about it. More the transfer situation..One player is all we''ve got in. One. Granted he seems fairly good, but when I see the likes of Derby, Coventry etc snapping up players who are more than fairly good, for good money, It''s very disheartening. Our supposed relationship with Arsenal has proved useful...Got any players you want shot of arsene? well..no..but I''ll send half of my reserve team out to other chamionship sides...Just ridiculous. Could we not have had ONE of those?! Everyone has brought in signings left right and center. Yet were happy to use the players that managed a lowely 9th last season. Ok so were not "happy", but it''s a managers job to bring in new players and frankly, it''s a job he''s bloody terrible at. We shouldn''t be waiting 3 years for a right winger, that position should be sorted, with cover. Same goes for the rest of the positions. I had hope when I saw Earnshaw come in, but we should be a side going somewhere. The list of players that we could have signed is incredible. Soton playing today...Southampton will parade a host of debutants with Kelvin Davis, Pele, Marcelo Sarmiento and Bradley Wright-Phillips pushing for starts.Fellow new boys John Viafara and Mario Licka have got international clearance but Rudi Skacel is short of fitness.Birchall to Coventry, ryan smith, oakley, larsson, campbell, higginbotham. This is just the last few days.Worthy saying he has spent most of the transfer kitty, well spend the rest of it then! He''s done it for us in the past, but enough of nostalgia, he has to go.[/quote]Yes, but lack of transfer funding is not down to Worthington. He''s bought in some superb players - a few poor (which most people like to go on about), but at the end of the day he can''t buy players with money he hasn''t got.

[quote user="We need a Manager"]Most managers can make the good signings if they are given 2 or 3 million to spend .[/quote]And by the same token, even the best managers can make terrible signings. What''s your point?

[quote user="Konstantin Pobedonostsev"]The feel bad factor emerged the moment some Norwich fans began to con themselves that we are a big club with lots of money, international superstars and a faultless manager. Those intelligent football fans who saw promotion to the Premiership as the deserved reward for clever buying/Divone consistency but knew the Prem season would be tough (nine years absent, few players with Prem experience, no bottomless pit of millions) and that the season after relegation would go the way that it does for 99% of demoted clubs have not contributed to this feel bad factor. Fans need to be realistic. Too many let promotion go to their heads and they began to view our club as a prince amoung kings. Peoples'' fantasies became expectations and they demanded too much. The sooner a sober reality check is slapped on to Carrow Road the sooner the ground may actually let the team make mistakes, appreciate that players can take a while to settle and acknowledge that grim silence, spoilt whistling/jeering/booing/heckling and constant grumbling do nothing but demoralise the players and make the task of our opponents that much easier. The champagne hasn''t gone flat its been guzzled away and the bottle is in the recycling. The Premiership is the past it has no leaning on the present. Get a reality check and get behind the club for 2006-7. OTBC   [/quote]You know, I think that is absolutely spot on - realistic is exactly what our fans are not.

Can anyone tell me where the "Nobody does transfer business now" quote came from? Or has the "it''s will be a slow summer" quote been twisted?

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]In fact, you make the same mistake in your post. Sweeping accusations toward me citing erroneous generalisations, saying I use insults which are just plain wrong and making a fool out of myself on multiple occasions. You do all this without citing specific examples of what you are speaking of. I will be happy to debate you on any specific point you are able to make that even attempts to use rational argument. Do you have any?[/quote]I''m glad to see you''ve got a highly developed sense of irony YankeeCanary. I''m sure that when you read through the thread again, you''ll see that I have merely taken your own "rational argument" and applied it to the comments made by yourself. I would produce the neccessary citations, but I think most people are more than capable of clicking the "Previous Page" link and reading your last two posts themselves. Unless, of course, they''re of the "KTF" persuasion. But having said that, citations would be rather pointless, given their proven lack of reading ability, don''t you agree?

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]This brings a smile to my face Rossi as I read the erroneous response from blahblah, which is typical of those that KTF. They can''t read, they can''t think, they can''t use rationale argument to make their point but, oh yes......they can keep the faith. Bless them.[/quote]And the irony is, that your post brought a smile to my face YankeeCanary. It seems your response is typical of an arrogant, condescending poster who seems to like making sweeping, erroneous generalisations. You can''t accept anyone else''s views if they are different to you, you like to view everyone in stereotypical ways (seemingly only able to see in groups), and you can''t apologise if you say something insulting, which is just plain wrong, but oh yes.....you can make a fool out of yourself on multiple occasions. Bless you.Still, you carry on - it certainly makes me chuckle!

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Spurs have bid for Curtis Davies rejected http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=389559&CPID=8&clid=35&lid=4161&title=Baggies+block+Spurs''+Davies+bid What a fool that Martin Jol is!!!  Don''t they realise nobody does their transfer buisiness at this time..... "This is a time of year when a lot of football people take their holidays, myself included" - Nigel Worthington, £15,000 a week. [/quote]Seriously man, do you do anything other than try to find stats and/or articles to use against the manager? What exactly has Worthington said which isn''t true?

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]I''m afraid you''re wrong Yellow Rages....SOMETHING was said. Nothing means nothing. I take it from your rather convoluted response that you don''t know what "meta talk" is?[/quote]I always thought Metatalk was a programming language, otherwise you''ve lost me (and apparently everyone else). Still, if you are going to make up meanings for words then that''s hardly surprising... [;)]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]My goodness, you KTF''s are edgy. ( I know some will say you''re not to which I say "Balderdash" ) Trent Canary - read what I wrote before you accuse. I did not say barclayendboy was not open-minded....he asked a question and I responded to it with the pre-face "if you are open-minded", giving my opinion on the question implied in the title of the thread. A little different from the accusatory stance you adopt. Also, just to help your thought process, it is entirely plausible for people to be naive without regard to whether they are right or wrong about an issue. In the example I directed to you on another thread, in my view your thoughts came across as naive. Spat - ( an appropriate name for you I suspect ): Time to employ the little grey cells before you fire your cannons Spat. What''s rubbish is all of your rhetoric regarding Malky''s ability when we were promoted and whether we should have kept him. That has been debated many times but has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on this thread. My comments were simply directed to the background and experience that Mackay and Boothroyd had at Norwich when we had the play-off experience, and the fact that he chose not to speak to that experience speaks volumes ( for me ). Yellow Rages - are you familiar with "meta talk?" People do it all the time....you, me and everyone else. People often do not say everything that is on their minds, otherwise there would be pandemonium. One of the roles this  forum provides, on the other hand, is to allow us to express/interpret/conject what occurs or what is said by those ( past and present ) who have represented NCFC.. That''s what makes it interesting. Your approach, quote, " The answer is ''who knows?'' There might be, there might not be. We''ll never know", is hardly likely to encourage posters to return to this message board with any great frequency. [/quote]I''m sure those people in question will be incredibly chuffed with your detailed, arrogant (and misinformed) analysis of their opinions. You imply that Malky is having a swipe at Worthington, when someone says they don''t agree, you attempt to condescend and patronise them into submission.Yes, these formus are for expression and interpretation, but I believe other people should be able to express and interpret things in a different way to you without being patronised or insulted.

[quote user="london Canary"][quote user="Web Team - Pete"] It is a shame but no point keeping someone who doesn''t want to be here and behaves like a little girl who''s had all her toys taken away - just ask the Newcastle fans about Bellamy.Not sure about fat but he has been anonymous this second half after such a good first half, with his only contribution being a yellow card. Although that may be down to Liverpool waking up more than anything else.Having said that he''ll score the winner now... [/quote] Everyone keeps saying this about ashton that he didn''t want to stay and yes over january he wanted to go but why do you think that is? I will always blame our manager and board for ashton leaving, what did we do to try and get him to stay we signed hughes, robinson, etuthu etc ashton could see that with players of that quality we wern''t going anywhere fast and when it all started going wrong, fans turning etc he wanted out and i can''t blame him. In many matches i saw he was the only one trying, QPR away for example. We sold the one bit of english talent we have (i have to admit at a very good price, considering he did want to leave) In my eyes this can only be put right by buying the likes of jerome or nugent which i can''t really see happening?! Seeing him play today just shows more failings of our manager. [/quote]I read somewhere recently that he wanted to leave at the start of the season; not just afer our poor first half. I think he said something along the lines of "I wish I''d left Norwich in the summer", although that isn''t an exact quote, and Doncaster said they should had sold him in the summer when he made it clear his future wasn''t with Norwich City.The way I see it, he took a fat pay rise and probable signing-on fee knowing that he could leave in January if things didn''t pan out the way we all wanted (or perhaps even if they did, assuming a "big" club came in for him). Let''s be honest, he is a great player with a superb footballing mind, but he just didn''t want to play for us, and we were only a short-term stepping stone to greater things for him. You say he seemed to be the only one trying in some matches; well, some that I saw, he seemed to be disinterested and not really playing to his full potential. I lose track of the amount of decent chances he missed in those few months.Of course, you can''t neccessarily blame him for that, but in my mind at least, the squad seemed to become more settled after he had left and all the transfer speculation had settled down. Alternatively, who would have preferred us to sell him in the summer? What would that have said about our "ambition", and what affect would it have had on the morale of the fans? Personally, I think the board AND manager did the best they possibly could in difficult circumstances; and at the end of the day, we secured an excellent fee for an excellent player who simply didn''t want to wear the yellow and green.

[quote user="seedyrom"][quote user="Trent Canary"] [quote user="OTBC"]I don''t have any sympathy for Captain Clappy. He''s on good money, I don''t think he''s earning it. [/quote] This isnt about sympathy, its about helping one of OUR players to perform better. Or do we not want that? [/quote]   I think you''re overlooking the mentality of the Hughes-bashers, TC; they''re having an absolute BALL making the guy''s life hell, and it has squat-all to do with either caring about the club or wanting the player himself to perform better. It''s how people like this get their kicks, and the more cruel and unfair they can be, in their eyes and in those of their cerebrally challanged chums who egg them on, the more fun it becomes. Don''t bother looking for rationalty in it, because none exists. [/quote]For what it''s worth, I think that''s right on the money. The logic behind not booing him is pretty obvious, and anybody who says "he''s rubbish, he''s not earning his money" as a justification for the torrent of undeserved abuse he gets is trying to kid themselves that their actions are acceptable.Look at it this way; people slag him off because he''s rubbish and he isn''t worth his wage packet. However, if they were to stop slagging him off I''m pretty sure his performances would improve - it just makes no sense to me - so those who do boo and abuse him constantly, please explain what you hope to achieve?(Now I''m waiting for the usual "I have the right to boo him if I like" comments).

Comic genius.<<Puts head back in the sand>>

Trying to make friends - what planet are you on? It''s an old joke, been done many times before, and just because it''s another way to take the pi$$ out of Andy Hughes doesn''t suddenly make it the world''s most hilarious gag. If you find it really funny, then bully for you, but don''t try and insinuate I''m sucking up to people because I don''t agree.

[quote user="chicken"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"] ah excuse time again, still doesnt explain the left bakcs in midfield or strikers at right wing, or poor results with a fully fit squad.  However as far as Jarrett goes, the rumours are of a training ground bust up - hence being sent on loan in the middle of an injury crisis. Worthy out before we sign any more andy hughes''s [/quote]LBs in midfield and strikers at RW could just possibly have something to do with the size of the squad.  I may be mistaken, however. [/quote] simon charlton played in midfield with a fully fit squad.....  Jim Brennan preferred to youth at center midfield a couple of times even tho he was awful there...  Micky Spillane has shown youth can do a good job when required, maybe not over a whole season but certainly for the odd game, rossi jarvis impressed when brought on for brennan.  jarrett was on loan at the time after rumoured training ground bustup. Simon Charlton has even played Left Wing!!!  Left Wing for gods sake!!!  Charlie,  Left Wing!!! it beggars belief. we had one right winger - dean marney, just as bentley got injured last year marney got injured this year.... thats whats called lessons learned. [/quote]The point you miss is that Mystic Megson is saying is it really Worthingtons fault that at the start of the season we only had one out and out right winger? Or one left midfield player?When you refer to Charlton being played as a central midfielder I smile because that is debatedly where his best performances were this season. Playing just infront of the back four as a sweeper. We won away at Sheff Utd with him in that role. Now that may have been lucky or whatever you want to call it but it was good tactics by Worthington. I think the one thing Charlie had that maybe the others didnt is that passion and commitment and perhaps drive to lift the team.And at no point this season has the squad ever been fully fit!!!!! At that point in time we had McKenzie, Jarvis, Etuhu (I think), Shackell all and Luis-Jean all out with injuries. So please please please think about what you are saying![/quote]I agree with most of what you''re saying Chicken. The one thing that strikes me as quite odd is that some people on this board blame *EVERYTHING* on Worthington. Whilst I''m not a fan of his myself, anybody can see that there are other factors which have also contributed to this poor season; mainly the size of the squad and the lack of money made available to strengthen it. It''s a case of never giving credit where it''s due, as far as I can see.

[quote user="LinkNR9"]Cantley - If all you can do is appear on this Board once in a while to take a cheap shot at posters with whom you disagree, please don''t bother. "If you''ve got nothing worthwhile to say, don''t say anything". [/quote]I didn''t realise you were a moderator of this board Link?

Oh, my aching sides.

Sounds like Hughes had a good game today. Are you going to give him some credit for that?No, thought not...

Sanctimonious - because my morals clearly differ to that of yours? Also, why don''t you check back to the message board posts at the time Re: Holt? I think you''ll find very few of the comments were appreciating his excellent contribution to the previous seasons. If I recall correctly, he didn''t even take part in the lap of honour at the last home game of the season. Are they really the actions of a man confident the crowd will receive him well? I do agree that he wanted to leave to get first team football (at least that is the official line), but I find it difficult to believe that any player who gets booed at his home ground, especially after the service he had given us up until the Prem season, feels comfortable to stay at a club where the fans have turned on him. I can''t believe you''re telling me that the criticism of players mentioned in past posts is entirely justified and constructive, and not simply a witch hunt in many cases.Secondly, if we''re playing the definitions game, a mob does not have to be mindless. To me, a large number of people appluading the substition of a player in a sarcastic and vitriolic way, who has given his all (even though it''s clear he''s not good enough) is pretty low, so I stand by that comment. I never said Hughes is a good player, I just don''t agree with some peoples'' actions. I didn''t say Hughes'' poor play was their fault (although booing the players blatently doesn''t help matters), and I never said people aren''t entitled to express their disapproval in whatever way they want if they pay their money, but I personally don''t agree with it. Clearly the responsibility lies with Worthington picking him, and I never said otherwise, so I''d appreciate it if you don''t put words in my mouth.Thirdly, how many players are actually going to come out and say "I left because of the fans"? We shall see in the summer - but it''s pretty clear that some of the players (i.e. Greeno, Hucks) are getting fairly disillusioned with some of the fans'' actions. To give an example of someone who''s played well, look at Ashton. He had a good goal-scoring ratio for us, but was usually criticised for being unable to head the ball, or being overweight etc, even after he''d had a decent game. Doherty has been a good defender for us this season, but every mistake he makes is heavily criticised (I''ve seen lots of people call him rubbish or similar). Compare that with Shackell - I''ve seen him caught out of position a good few times this season, and he''s given away a few silly penalties in his time. Everyone makes mistakes, but it seems a lot of people don''t notice the "flavour of the month", whilst the latest personification of our rubbish season gets it in the neck, and this has been a recurring theme over the past couple of seasons.Don''t get me wrong; I''m a strong believer that people can say what they like, as long as they''re prepared to take responsibility for their words. However, to me, booing individual players and putting them so on-edge that they''re afraid of making any mistakes doesn''t achieve a thing. And I''m afraid I''ll stick to that opinion no matter how self-righteous you may think I am.

[quote user="King Juan of Spain"]Hope you''re proud of yourselves, all you who applauded QPR''s goals on Sat. You were doing exactly what the Wolves fans have been doing at their games. Perhaps you''ll be happy to applaud them if they score against us, while at the same time singing ''we only hate Ipswich and Wolves''. I CANNOT BELIEVE some people on this board are happy to applaud opposition goals, and then even admit it! You make me sick to my stomach. If I cancel my season ticket it won''t be because of the rubbish season we''ve had, it''ll be because I don''t want to be anywhere near you people. And you have the gall to call yourselves fans.   [/quote]Agreed. At least, despite his shortcomings, Worthington is a decent man. More than can be said for a lot of our so-called supporters.

[quote user="Old Boy"]Yes XXL16, and now watch those who slagged him without mercy on this board, and drove him away from the club, crawl out from under to say how wonderful he was. The truth is that they''re the same bunch who are now using the same tactic against Hughes. And just as unfairly, cruelly and mindlessly. [/quote]That is probably the truest thing anyone''s said on here for a while. I remember last season defending Holt, and whilst agreeing he wasn''t a Prem player, trying to remind some vocal people how good he was for us in the Championship. Still, he got driven out by the fans, not the manager or anybody else.Be it Fleming, Doherty, Holt, Hughes or the latest target, the same "whipping boy" mob-like tactics are repeated over and over by some. Totally counter-productive and pointless IMO.

One thing I''ve never quite understood about the "Worthington tells them to hoof it" argument is whether people are of the opinion we played passing football in the past four seasons.For example, last season, Norwich were winning plaudits for attempting to play good passing football rather than long ball rubbish. Therefore, doesn''t this indicate the manager wants to play decent football? Why would he suddenly change his tactics this season? It doesn''t seem to add up in my mind.Far more likely is the fact that he bought players for midfield that just haven''t reached the mark this season, which coupled with Safri''s sick note tendencies and the fact Hucks is a striker at heart, means the defence just don''t have to confidence to play it through midfield. The fans'' reactions to any stray passes probably compound this - anyone who makes a mistake is really slagged off so it''s easier just to hit and hope.

[quote user="1st Wizard"]I believe a robust campaign to oust the Smiths would be more benificial to the club[/quote]Sorry Wizard, you''ve lost me now. As far as I''m aware, they''re majority shareholders. Therefore, to get them out of the club, they have to want to sell their shares, and someone wants to have to buy them.So unless you know any other wealthy benefactors who are interested in putting their own personal time and money into NC (bearing in they effectively saved the club), I suggest you keep your ignorant drivel to yourself just for once.

[quote user="Jack Flash"]Saint Canary concluded - ... the extreme views held by some supporters of the "WO" and "KTF" fractions, culminated in the extremely sour, agitated and highly unpleasant atmosphere I had the misfortune to witness on Monday.  11 hours spent in the car to hear my own players jeered and away goals cheered was not what I had in mind for Easter Monday. Couldn''t agree more! I find this whole debate about Nigel Worthington to be nasty, and whilst I am of the opinion that it is time for a change, because of the way that the WO campaign is being conducted and the tone of most of the anti Worthington remarks, I could not associate myself in any way with the WO mob. The Club I have supported for almost 50 Years is in danger of falling apart because of this vitriolic and distasteful debate!  [/quote]I agree. It seems the WO debate has become more about nasty names and points scoring than it has about actually achieving its goal. I am of the opinion it is time for a change, but I would never hurl abuse at our players or manager, or resort to the level of name calling and pathetic behaviour that has been witnessed in recent home matches. There is no doubt in my mind that Worthington is a victim of his own success. He has achieved a great deal for this club, and that in itself deserves respect despite my opinion of his managerial abilities.Regardless of whether you think he should go or not, the level of vitriol spat by a lot of the more vocal detractors is not something I want to associate myself with. Unfortunately, it seems that to the outside world at least, we are all getting tarred with the same brush.

[quote user="Alan_Grey"]You''re contradicting yourself. Saying he is a liar, but not before suggesting that what he is saying now is built upon a past mistake of his. He''s learnt not to say players are going nowhere.So what IS your point?[/quote]And if I recall correctly, Worthington always maintained that it would take a "silly money" offer to prise Ashton away from the club; it was the board when denied a bid had been received (although I could be wrong). But hey, why let that get in the way of a good bit of Worthy bashing?Yes, he''s been rubbish this season, but I don''t think you can call the guy a liar.

[quote user="pete"]Dunc, SC may be trying to wind us up with poor spelling and grammar or he could be a victim of our education system, perhaps he has got a dozen GCSE''s and looking forward to Uni in a couple of years.[/quote]Yep, it''s a well known fact that no university students can spell, or use correct grammar. [;)]