Yelverton Yella

[quote user="matt crowhurst"]I wondered that but then i saw he was in the starting line up tonight so wasn''t sure. Did wonder if no one apart from the management knows the squad until 45 mins or so before kick off when they are announced so the kitman has to lay everyones out just in case but that would seem a strange way to do things to me[/quote]Ah but had the kitman already cleared off back to Scotland by then? Or is he clearing off to Scotland because he laid out the wrong kit?I think we should be told the FACTS!!

[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]Not sure he''s got the legs and pace to play up front now[/quote]He''s probably got more pace and certainly more guile than Holt''s current partner up front!

Thanks to DC and Superflash for their rational and measured responses.The thing is, I don''t think we are disagreeing about the ''big'' decisions. I freely acknowledge that Gunn had to go. The mistake was the ridiculous, knee-jerk, appointment before the St Andrew''s Hall meeting and before the new Board had been appointed. The subsequent debacle against Colchester probably sealed Gunn''s fate but I still say the WAY in which Gunn was fired was inexcusable and simply not necessary. I don''t believe that the team performance the following day was enhanced by Gunn''s dismissal and, indeed, may have been adversely affected.Again, I am not objecting to Lambert''s swift appointment (although I hope it was based on more than just a reaction to the opening fixture) and, frankly, we must have interviewed or at least received applications from most potential managerial candidates over the last couple of years so we would know enough about most of them! Again, my issue is with how it was done. Surely, with some sensible and reasonable negotiation,we could have reached a compromise to allow PL to join within a few days rather than end up with a hugely confrontational situation. Apart from anything else, we are lucky that Colchester either chose not to or didn''t have the contractual right to enforce ''gardening leave'' for the notice period.I made it clear that the ''freezing out'' stories are hearsay and was expressing a hope that the current manager would not repeat the mistakes of one of his predecessors (ask Lappin whether this is good management!).The main point I was trying to get across is that it is perfectly possible to be ''decisive and positive'' (and God knows, we have had enough of ''weak and woolly'' thinking from our Board!) without deliberately alienating people with whom we may want / need to deal in future!

Why is it that some people seem to think that to be decisive and successful, you have to be uncivilised and spiteful? As I made clear at the time, whilst I believe the decision to part company with Gunn was probably correct (he should never have been appointed permanently in the first place), the timing and manner of his dismissal was inept and unnecessary and reflects no credit on McNally or the Board. Lambert’s appointment and the whole way it was handled frankly filled me with foreboding. Lambert may or may not be the best manager in the League but to rush into an appointment without apparently considering any other candidates whilst riding roughshod over the Board of another club again to me demonstrates panic rather than cold logic and strategic thinking. I know some of you think these actions are laudable and are a sign that we, as a club, have now grown ‘cojones’ and are not to be trifled with but, with all my experience in business, (and I have worked with and for some seriously nasty b**tards!) actions like this have a nasty habit of rebounding in curious and unforeseen ways. I also really hope that the stories of PL ‘freezing’ players out in order to precipitate a loan out or transfer are not true. Behaviour like that was rightly condemned in Roeder and has a seriously bad effect on morale and potential player recruitment. The thing that really annoys me is that none of the above behaviour was necessary. There were alternatives which would have achieved the same result- possibly at the cost of a couple of day’s delay- but would have retained the integrity of the club. Perhaps this is not important to any of you but I have given my wholehearted support to the Club for the best part of 50 years and, one reason for that support, has been the ability, by and large, to identify with its values. I am not a wimp and I want (demand) success as much as anybody and I have said many times I would like to see new, seriously wealthy, owners take over from DS and MWJ. I am not condemning PL’s appointment- it would be unfair to judge for quite a while yet- all I am saying is that, in the long run, you reap what you sow in business and in football and I would not like to see us continue to feel we have to demonstrate machismo by ignoring all the principles of good management which have stood the test of time.

I, for one, would be delighted if they became involved. I don''t have any problems with their business which is legal and, presumably profitable.As far as I can see, S & G have been among the best football club owners of the recent crop, being prepared to invest when required but wanting the club to be run on sensible business guidelines for the long term.Might signal a return of the inflatable canary or maybe a blow-up plastic Delia (for decorative use only of course- put one in your kitchen!)

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]So they don''t want to sell? lol I think we all knew that even before anything was written about it officially. They want investment, but don''t want to give their toy up. [/quote]Purple, an excellent synopsis of the Cullum saga which explodes many of the myths although, despite all your work, it appears that some people are capable of misreading your conclusion that DS and MWJ are prepared to sell!(Not that, as you have said, Smith and Jones have made it easy to understand exactly what their intentions are!)

Given Lambert''s comments to Chris Lakey in the EDP where he said ''I have to see everybody..I have to see people to see what they can offer" I would guess that we will see quite a few changes tonight!After Saturday, I couldn''t even begin to guess who will play although I would be surprised to see JC or WLY as they both looked tired on Saturday.

I would be the first one to admit that JC tried his best on Saturday and did produce a few decent passes but, unfortunately, he just does not have the legs to chase and harry and get himself into position to snap up chances like he used to do. In truth, and I am genuinely sorry about this, he really does not present a threat any more. [:(]Apart from anything else, having someone like Cody snapping at the heels of the opposition defence all the time makes life easier for our midfield/ defenders as the opposition are hurried into playing the ball anywhere just to get clear of him.I really think that the Cody / Holt parnership will prove hugely successful for us and should be persevered with.

[quote user="zemas tendon"]Why no one has heard from Gunn or Roeder is that they are still being paid there contracts buy the Club, rather than agreeing compenstaion, the club has decided to carrying on paying them a salary!! so when Gunnys rruns out at the end of the season and Rodents, exspect  to hear from them!![/quote]This makes perfect sense and accords with employment law and is beneficial for cash flow purposes. The basic premise is that you should be in no better or worse situation due to the emplyer''s breach of contract. The employer has the choice of either paying up the contract in full (or ,at least, the net take home salary multiplied by the number of months the contract had left to run and taking into account the tax free severance allowance of around £30,000) or paying the net salary each month until the contract expires. If the ex employee takes another job, payment would cease as long as the net salary was equivalent, otherwise the difference would be made up by the ex employer.The employee has a responsibility to ''mitigate his loss'' so the  ex employer could demand to see evidence that the ex employee had applied for suitable jobs.It is highly likely that compensation would be conditional on ''continued good faith'' on the part of the ex employee- i.e. a ''gagging clause''.

[quote user="singing canary"]how to kill a players confidence before he kicks a ball . its wrong and damaging to the player involved [/quote]I agree entirely and would never boo a City player. Having said that, I didn''t think Cureton offered much yesterday other than one decent lay-off while out wide. He never really got into scoring positions and was too slow / not inclined to chase 50/50 balls.I know McDonald came on when the Wycombe defence were tiring but he was a breath of fresh air, chasing and harrying and never allowing the defence time to settle. His hold up play to put Holt in for his second was exquisite and he seemed to have a really good understanding with him.Although totally different players in both style and stature, I wonder if Holt and Cody could form a similar partnership to Boyer and MacDougall. Boyer didn''t score that many goals at the start but laid on hatfulls for MacDougall to score (eg 1975/6 in the old First Division, when McDougall scored 28 and Boyer 11).

[quote user="No Quarter"]This all stems from the Milk Cup final 85.  The atmosphere was unbelievable.  After the game both sets of fans shook hands and swapped hats and scarves.  I still have my Sunderland hat in a drawer. I also remember a load of Sunderland fans turning up in the old barclay a few years later.  I think their match had been postponed ,so a load of them jumped on a train and came to support Norwich.  Brilliant set of fans.  Just hope the modern "chav" type fans are aware of the history between our 2 clubs, and try and maintain it.[/quote]The Milk Cup Final was amazing (even if the football- apart from the result- was less so!). It was at the time there had been a lot of football violence and rioting and we were a bit apprehensive about travelling through London on the tubes with the Sunderland supporters. I don''t know why but there was an instant bond with both sets of supporters showing mutual respect and shaking hands, swapping scarves etc. both before and after the game.Typically, the National press hardly reported the game and certainly not the fantastic behaviour of the fans- far more interested in riots and vandalism.

[quote user="martin ayers"]a lot of people seem to be blaming askou for the first goal but just before he went up for the header he had the striker stand on the back of his heel so he couldn''t jump that''s why the ball bounced over his head[/quote]I''m surprised nobody else noticed this. Askou''s boot was half off and he had to put it on again after the ball went in. In general, I think Askou and Spillane is a partnership well worth persevering with and should be given a few games to settle down. I am by no means a ''doc hater'' but I agree with the points other people have made- he seems to have a habit of spreading nervousness and panic rather than the calm reassurance that you would like to see from your captain and a senior pro.

[quote user="canary cherub "]This isn''t a rest home for former legends, it''s supposed to be an ambitious competitive football club.  But if we''re talking public humiliation, the sacking of Nigel Worthington was far worse imo.   [/quote]Leaving aside the question of Worthington''s sacking, the method, timing and location of Gunn''s dismissal were nothing short of brutal.No, I wouldn''t hasve appointed Gunn in the first place and to hastily confirm his re-appointment before the St Andrew''s Hall meeting was crass stupidity but I genuinely thought that we had hired more professional management and that we had seen the last of over-hasty, amateurish decision making.If the decision to dismiss needed to be made for whatever reason, so be it, but in the absence of malicious or criminal action NOBODY deserves to be dismissed in the way Gunn was.Never mind the effect on the players and other employees and officials, how would you like to be bussed to a meeting hundreds of miles from home, be pulled out from doing your job, told you were instantly dismissed and left to find your way home by public transport? I''m sorry, those are not the actions of an ''ambitious, competitive'' representative of a football club but those of a bully or a coward exulting in the power thay have acquired (or desperate to act before other Directors changed their minds?). I sincerely hope this was an aberration because I shall be desperately unhappy if this crude management ''hire and fire'' style is repeated. Oh, and the other problem is that management by fear does not actually work- that is why it largely died out in the seventies.Before anybody questions my credentials, I have spent 35+ years advising Boards and Managers on how to deal properly with difficult performance problems under numerous cultures and legislative frameworks from the Netherlands to Singapore and have probably fired or helped to fire several hundred people including a Witch Doctor! I am not proud of this but I do take pride in saying that every dismissal was handled properly and sensitively while allowing the recipient to retain his or her dignity. I was a huge supporter of McNally''s appointment, I desperately want him and the new regime to succeed, with DS and MWJ taking a back seat or disappearing but there is simply NO excuse for not doing these things properly.

Excellent article expressing exactly my views. I only hope the stupid timing and inhuman and inept way the Gunn sacking was handled was a ''blip'' and not a sign of lasting incompetence from McNally. The identity of the new Manager will give us a clue about this!I hope some of the more hot-headed posters read the article and realise that the ''Aiken way'' - DS and MWJ becoming ''silent owners'' and ceding power to the professional Board members (if they haven''t already!)- is the only realistic way to progress in the absence of a ''sugar daddy'' ready to pour millions into the club because s/he loves football!Marching down Rouen road baying for blood will just attract more unwelcome headlines and patronising comments about Norfolk people and, quite probably, scare off anybody who had half a mind to invest in the club in case they become the next target of the hate-filled boo boys.OTBC

[quote user="canary cherub "][quote user="Yelverton Yella"][quote user="Barclayman your Carrow Road SuperHero"][quote user="Smudger"]Oh dear, who are we going to have to run on the pitch when McNally''s new project - Co-Co the Clown for NCFC Manager fails miserably???[/quote]Smudger your not seriously suggesting McNally''s a fool like Doncaster are you?McNally is clearly a good leader and the right kind of CEO weve needed.[/quote]I was stunned and (pleasantly) surprised by his appointment but the botched events of the last couple of days have seriously stretched his credibility and, if there''s any truth in the JFH /Poyet rumour, I will tar him with the same brush as his predecessor......[:@][/quote] What should he have done differently YY?   [/quote]Where do you start?If it was clear to DM that Gunn was the wrong man for the job (and surely one game, however devastating, didn''t decide his fate.) he should have acted before the start of the season and, preferably, before the squad had been assembled.If, contrary to the above, (and on the ''''last straw" theory) DM decided after Col U that Gunn was so hopeless he had to go, then it should have been engineered either immediately after the game or on Sunday. BG could then have been given the chance to go with some dignity which, after all these years, he surely deserved.Having (so we are told) made the decision BEFORE the Yeovil game, Gunn should never have been left in charge of the team for that game. I can only think that they EXPECTED us to lose and therefore provide more justification to announce the sacking.To make the announcement (which appeared to dribble out via the National Media- sloppy in itself) 24 hours before a key (aren''t they all) League game with Gunn and the team camped down in the West Country was both crass and inhuman. Why could it not have been delayed until Sunday or Monday- or were they frightened he might actually win another away game and make the sacking look even more illogical?If there is any truth in the JFH / GP rumour, I fail to see the point of sacking Gunn. JFH might turn out to be the best Manager ever but he has exactly the same problem that Gunn had (no experience) and not even the goodwill of having been a playing legend. What happens if we lose heavily in a month''s time? Do we sack him too?When the news first broke, I hoped they wouldn''t go for someone like Boothroyd but, if JFH is the alternative, I would welcome Adie with open arms!To sum up, I wouldn''t have appointed Gunn in the first place, but having got to this stage in the season, the actions taken and, particularly the way they were taken, smack of more rank amateurism- UNLESS there was some cataclysmic event that we are yet to hear about that forced DM''s hand.I really don''t understand how we have been dragged into this situation but, for obvious reasons, I sincerely hope Mcnally gets his act together PDQ.

Well, if the rumours are true, it seems as though the Board have finally found a way to unite the fans 100%. Has ANYONE suggested that they would like JFH /GP as our new Manager?

[quote user="Barclayman your Carrow Road SuperHero"][quote user="Smudger"]Oh dear, who are we going to have to run on the pitch when McNally''s new project - Co-Co the Clown for NCFC Manager fails miserably???[/quote]Smudger your not seriously suggesting McNally''s a fool like Doncaster are you?McNally is clearly a good leader and the right kind of CEO weve needed.[/quote]I was stunned and (pleasantly) surprised by his appointment but the botched events of the last couple of days have seriously stretched his credibility and, if there''s any truth in the JFH /Poyet rumour, I will tar him with the same brush as his predecessor......[:@]

God help us. If the JFH story is true the lunatics really have taken over the asylum!  [U]

[quote user="Jonnypncfc"]nah its was near tesco! just come out the laundrette! kidding i am not! maybe he was hear for talks and now is going back up 2 rothers! for 2day![/quote]Strange....what was he doing in the laundrette?

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="Yellow Rose of Texas"]Rubbish. They did what had to be done. Putting the same team back out at half time is one thing, but then telling everyone post match wasn''t sure what went wrong or why he did that?[/quote] Two year contract in May. 12 players signed since. One league game, one cup game. Fired. New manager will inherit Gunn''s players, an empty kitty, and a few days to work the transfer market. = Panic. The Empress clearly has no clothes, but who will call her bluff? She might strike lucky, but I doubt it. The club has become too soft and feminised to compete effectively in a hard world - and now over-reacts in the brutal and callous (they would call it decisive, I expect) way in which they cast out Gunn. Dear oh dear, what next? It''s been pretty clear for some time now that nothing less than a new owner with a clear vision and high expectations is likely to turn the club around. OTBC     [/quote]I have been quiet over the last week whilst trying to make some sort of sense of the events unfolding around our club.I can''t make any sense of them.Having said that I think BBB,( with whom I don''t always agree!) has hit the nail squarely on the head with his comments above.Before last Saturday I, like many other people, was feeling cautiously optimistic. Within the constraints of a Third Division budget, I thought the squad looked capable of challenging for an automatic slot, dissension had died down and people were starting to get behind the football team and be prepared to give Team Gunn a chance despite many reservations over his original appopintment.Then we had last Saturday. Too painful to remember even a week later but, with the cup result another glimmer of hope that maybe Colchester was a horrendous blip brought about by players freezing in front of the biggest crowd they had ever played against etc, etc and we could put that result behind us.Then yesterday.I have said several times that I was excited by the appointment of McNally but my confidence in him has taken a nosedive after the way the sacking was handled. I won''t repeat what BBB has said about this but I absolutely agree.While I wouldn''t have chosen Gunn in the first place, I have to say that some of the names now being bandied about could even be a worse alternative! Everyone will have their own view but the likes of hoofball merchant, ''one season wonders'' Boothroyd or Sanchez fill me with despair. I really hope McNally will surprise us with a top drawer appointment already lined up and ready to be announced but, if not, then for God''s sake, let''s take some time to do the recruitment job properly and make doubly sure we get somebody with the right credentials; I''m sure Butterworth and co. can manage for 2 or 3 weeks or more if necessary.The trouble is, with our reported financial situation, having to pay off Gunn and probably IC and IB as well, and at the very start of the season, we are almost bound to go for an unemployed manager to avoid compensation and, with some probably unobtainable, exceptions, that is not a great field to choose from.We really are drinking the last dregs of the bottle in the Last Chance Saloon.....

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="Yelverton Yella"]I and a huge number of supporters would be very, very angry if Hoolahan goes in this transfer window.I know ''money talks'' and I would not be in the least bit surprised to find that the idiot Doncaster had sold us short yet again with a sell on clause but I also think the new Board are hyper sensitive to public opinion at the moment. For once, I think that the more people who holler and shout about this, the more chance there is of the Board keping him.On the positive side and just in case they read this, they have the perfect opportunity to demonstrate that things really have changed and give themselves a massive boost in goodwill by coming out and saying Wes is not for sale and we have offered him a new, extended, contract (with no sell on clause!).If, after all this, the player wants to move (and assuming there isn''t a sell on clause), we should start the bidding at £2m and see who is interested. (Although, from his body language in pre-season, he doesn''t look like somebody who wants away- perhaps he is looking forward to the new season with, effectively, a team built around him...)Anyway, let''s keep the post count going on this subject and take every opportunity to make sure the Board know how we feel...when are the supporter''s groups meeting the Board?[/quote] Come on YY, you know that "Sell-on clauses are a fact of footballing life" (Only if the name of your club starts with an "N" and ends with a "CH" of course.....[:S])..... [/quote]Of all the mismanagement that has taken place in the last few years, this is the piece that really annoys me! You would think that a guy who had legal training would manage to put together a contract that worked to his employer''s benefit..... but no, time and again we have ended up short changed while agents, players and other managers have laughed at us.Everybody understands that players have a price and, if from their own perspective, they are bettering their career by moving to a higher division or higher profile club then, in the end, there''s not much you can do about it. At least, if our club receives a decent wad for a replacement, it sweetens the pill. What really rankles though is when we either get nothing because a contract was allowed to expire or a derisory amount because of a penal sell on clause- rank incompetence in my view!

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Isn''t there a huge amount of "gun jumping" going on here? The whole thing about keeping Hoolahan from Gunn was obviously prompted by a question from a jurno and although he didn''t say he wouldn''t sell him, it was as strong a comment as could be reasonably made. Gunn has often mentioned that players that want to leave will be sold, and the old addage "money talks" is classic managerspeak (like newspeak but more mention of sick parrots and games of two half etc). There is a link between Grayson and Hoolahan so that will draw rumour but this whole things seems to come from message board chatter. Until something more solid emerges it''s probably best to ignore it all and assume Hoolahan will be a Norwich player for the foreseeable future. He is one of our highest earners as Roeder made a lot of effort to lure him from Blackpool, and unless there is a jump up a league he will probably be happy with his lot right now, he is certainly playing like he is. In no way would he be a "replacement for Delph" as they are entirely different kinds of players and it sounds more like the Leed''s fans (or maybe just the one) want Hoolahan. [/quote]You are absolutely right in what you say about ''gun jumping'' and how this whole thing started (thank you Archant) but my trust in the Board is very conditional at the moment and I can just see the whole business taking on a momentum of its own and, before we know it, ''we tried our best, but what could we do?''.I just thought it would do no harm to make a ''pre-emptive strike'' so that the Board know that any move would be highly unpopular amongst their ''customers''.

You''re just a small town in Norfolk.......[:D]

As I have posted in the Hoolahan / Leeds thread, can somebody please make it clear to them that the Board will lose an awful lot of credibility if they sell Hoolahan (for anything other than ''silly money'', say £2m) in this transfer window!

I and a huge number of supporters would be very, very angry if Hoolahan goes in this transfer window.I know ''money talks'' and I would not be in the least bit surprised to find that the idiot Doncaster had sold us short yet again with a sell on clause but I also think the new Board are hyper sensitive to public opinion at the moment. For once, I think that the more people who holler and shout about this, the more chance there is of the Board keping him.On the positive side and just in case they read this, they have the perfect opportunity to demonstrate that things really have changed and give themselves a massive boost in goodwill by coming out and saying Wes is not for sale and we have offered him a new, extended, contract (with no sell on clause!).If, after all this, the player wants to move (and assuming there isn''t a sell on clause), we should start the bidding at £2m and see who is interested. (Although, from his body language in pre-season, he doesn''t look like somebody who wants away- perhaps he is looking forward to the new season with, effectively, a team built around him...)Anyway, let''s keep the post count going on this subject and take every opportunity to make sure the Board know how we feel...when are the supporter''s groups meeting the Board?