cornish sam

Comparing the stats on the BBC to those on Squawka it would appear that if a shot is blocked then it would go as ''off target'' on the BBC. From Squawka the stats were: On Target - 4 Off Target - 10 Blocked - 11 Which looks a lot better...

[quote user="lake district canary"]If Holt goes to Carlisle, they might get an extra person through their gates  (I went once a few years ago and swore never again) Would be good to see them rise up a division..............or two..... [/quote]   They certainly could do with the extra person, the attendance has been appaling this season, however, they couldn''t afford his wages let alone a transfer fee! Brunton Park though is a remarkable stadium, I''m disappointed with your dismissal of it. How can you not be tempted back by the East Stand which is offset to the pitch by about 30 feet due to a proposed redevelopment that never happened (away fans get the seats that look onto the neighbouring terrace) or the fact that it is the largest capacity stadium that still has terracing left in England, the toilets even have a roof these days!

And now it''s put a bloody smiley in the title! I''m going to bed...

(ignore my spelling errors, I''m tryng to post from a smartphone for the first time)

Oh, and as an aside, referencing purple/parma; I think the issue here is that contrary to popular opinion, we have changed styles this season. Last season was built on a strong 4-4-1-1 with a compressed defence and midfield affording little room for maneuver for the attacking team, hence a tight defensive record. This season Hughton has tried to get us to play a 4-2-3-1 with inverted wingers which we don''t have,(only pilks really is up to the task on his day) but because they are on their wrong side it not only means that the attack is conpomised but also they are further forward and instinctively defending the wrong way which exacerbates the defensive problems we''ve had this season so we score less and concede more, thankfully lots of those goals have come in a few matches so our situation isn''t as bad as the goal difference implies...

I think that it''s not just a case of them misjudging their ability to predict the odds but as much a belief that they are finding that progression, that ephemeral next step up the ladder towards their vision. The only club that seem to have been able to do that us Southampton, everything you read about them and their progression talks about the singular objective and project as outlined by cortese and everyone has bought into that vision and is pulling in that direction. We all derided the ruthless dismissal of Atkins at the time bit it has been proven to be an astute move and a progression towards their goal. Admittedly though they are in an almost unique position, being backed by the funds of a billionaire who isn''t going to get bored or pull out because he''s dead and his friend (cortese) is continuing his aims and the trustees know that he will just walk away as soon as they try to stop him; so here there are multiple external stimuli added to the fact that the manager was not sacked due to bad performance, more that he was just a stepping stone in the same way as NC FC may be for the likes of fer and rvw... At wba they think they are doing the same, bit actually as Ricardo points out, they have mistaken an above average period as being the new normal, much ad ridsdale did at Leeds and gaydemark at Pompey... For the teams that are suffering a slump (or return to mean or even just an expectation of instant success) there is also the element of those that are used to having total control finding out that, despite the millions they''ve thrown, they actually have none, so out of desperation they change the only thing they can, the manager...

I got more involved than intended :)

At the moment I won''t get too involved in this debate, I may later but on a larger note this is showing the truth in the danger of statistics and people trying to interpret in depth studies without actually getting past the summary and headline details. I''ve not read the detail of the report yet, but if it is a serious statistical study then they will have taken measures to counter the majority of factors that can be quantified and making rash statments such as Mustard with his "They only used teams that have been in the division for 50% of 18 years so we can''t trust it" (paraphrased). If you dig a little bit deeper and think about it then you would realise that whilst this would indeed limit the sample set in the premiership quite considerably, in a division such as the Eredivise this isn''t as much of a limitation as one would think, for example there is only 1 team definitely relegated and promoted wach season with another entering a relegation play off and the division is onyl 18 teams large, also the relative strength of the second division in Holland is pretty weak so over the last twenty seasons (I know not the same sample as the study used) there have been 16 teams in the Eredivise for 10 or more seasons, of the current membership of the divison 14 of them have been in it for 10 or more seasons (77%) so and another has been in it for 9. So to dismiss a study based on an assumption made from a limitation that they have placed (understandably so as well) is to take a false position and not give the statisticians the credit that they deserve.   On a more practical level, I do actually think that this study makes sense and I can see sense in it''s findings, the results over a long enough period will revert to a standard and any bounce will be cancelled out, the real trick is defining the period of judgement, if, as Sunderland last year, you only need a bounce to gain a couple of results in a short period then you don''t particularly care that over a sample size a season long you still have relegation form then change manager, if on the other hand you are interested in providing an improvement long term and true progression of a club then changing manager is unlikely (note, unlikely, not definitely) to provide the desired effect without other external stimulus, such as a change in financial circumstances (either an increased investment or a reduction of liabilities) or a change in the conditions around the club or other competing clubs (such as a relegation) and these changes in external stimulus should likely have an impact on the performance of the incumbant manager as much as the incoming one, the leverage they gain from it will be defined by the quality of manager...   On a personal level, I think we should stick with Hughton for this season, unless we need to paper over the cracks towards the end of it and dead cat bounce out of the relegation zone and potentially reasses in the summer and look for a Southampton style change to leverage improved conditions of being debt free and increased finances thanks to the BT deal.

I think that this is the first time that I have agreed with anything you''ve written Stan! Put in a couple of older players to fill in to bookend the youngsters (Bunn, as an experienced keeper is a priority (and Britt has left) and RVW to inspire and add the potential game changer, partnering Carlton of course) and have at ''em

Nexus, I do agree with you to an extent about feeling angry because of perceived unfair treatment, but, the way to deal with that is not go crying to the press, it''s to confront the issue head on with the person who is treating you badly which neither Bechio or Hughton give the impression he has done. I don''t necessarilly fully blame Bechio for this either, I suspect that there is a hand of an agent/advisor in there as there will have been with his behaviour at Leeds, but there are right ways and wrong ways to go about things and this has been handled in the wrong way.   I''m not disagreeing with their patently being something wrong with the team at the moment, I just am not pretending that I know exactly what that is or what the fix is, for all we know the issue may be that Bechio is actually the issue and due to his feeling hard done by he has been undermining the management within the squad and causing these divides and what not (This is a pure far fetched theory by the way, I don''t actually believe that....but the drop in form last season did roughly coincide with is arrival, dun-dun-duuuuunnnnnn). Ultimately something needs to change, whether this be the management, some playing personel or just that they need a damned good piss up and clear the air session of mud wrestling, I don''t know.

Why are people so keen to use this as a stick to bash Hughton, why aren''t people lambasting Bechio for his unprofessional behaviour in speaking to the paper when from all of the quotes it is obvious that he hasn''t spoken to Hughton about it? Bechio also came to us with a reputation of being a bit of a disruptive presence from his time at Leeds requesting transfers and the such like, trying to get his ''dream move to the premiership'', well htat dream hasn''t worked out, he''s not been good enough, the chances he''s had might have been too limited but he has shown very little in those opportunities to push his case. Granted out other strikers haven''t erally been pulling up trees either, but, Elmander is a ecognised international forward, Van Wolfswinkle and Hooper both came with good pedigrees from the top leagues in the country they were in and are significantly younger than Bechio, who even Leeds fans say (and said at the time, and before the transfer window he left in) wasn''t good enough for the premiership. I wonder who I will believe, the management who see him in training every day and fans who watched him playing matches week in week out for a few seasons or a load of keyboard warriors who are frustrated because the team is not playing well and are clutching at the straw that is Bechio because he hasn''t been tainted by actually being involved in the matches we''ve done so badly in.   Just out of interest, what do all of you clamering for Bechio actually expect shuold he get the chance, to get the ball on the edge of our box and drive forward rounding every player on the pitch (including his team mates) before dinking one over the keeper who has bowed down to recognise his brilliance after 3 mionutes on the pitch? Or more likely, someone who is short of match practice wandering around up front not looking like he knows what he should be doing and then shanking the one chance he actually gets into the corner flag? The issue here isn''t the striker that is playing, the issue goes a lot deeper than that, Bechio is not the answer, Hughton might not be the answer (I''m still not sure about this), we need the whole team to start playing with confidence and the first thing that we need is for the players at the back to sort themselves out so we actually have a decent platform to build on and the central midfield, who have undoubted quality, feel confident enough to use it and create chances without being scared of the reprecussions should we lose the ball and the defence get exposed. We play like a team that are scared at the moment and lack leadership, I personally think that Holt going wasn''t a mistake and we have more than replaced his skill, what we haven''t replaced is his presence and that is what is needed and probably isn''t something that any manager would be able to instill if there are no players there who have it (I though Bassong might, but he seems to be back to Spurs form instead of the Newcastle form of last season).

How his experiences as a player have influenced his approach to management? Such as managers that he has tried to emulate, his defensive priorities etc..  

[quote user="Vanwink"]That''s a reasonable argument Cornish, but we do see Forster in CL games! If the general view however, as you suggest, is that he is playing against lower quality teams on a regular basis, I have to agree. You must then question why he is in the squad at all?[/quote]   We see Forster in maybe 4 matches per season against top quality oppostion, and in those games he''s busier than a stripper at a bunga bunga party. The main sign of the top top keepers is not just being able to make the outstanding saves, but, being able to make those saves after long periods of doing nothing, for example Joe Hart''s save last night (shortly before the goal), he''d not had a save to make for 30+ minutes and then pulled one out of the top drawer. I know that this kind of undermines the arguement for not putting Ruddy in as he''s not exactly had a solid defence in front of him this season, but it is the kind of thing that you wouldn''t be able to tell from Forster''s matches, especially considering some of the people who do watch him in the drossish Premiership say that he does regularly make mistakes against the likes of Caley Thistle because he hasn''t had anything to do for most of the match then fluffs his only call to action. If your questioning on why he is in the squad is about Ruddy, the friendlies aren''t really that much about the actual match, they are as much about getting the team to spend time together, work together and get to know each other, it''s the same reason as youth players go on pre-season tours. It''s all about getting used to the people you may be playing alongside and getting to know them and the environment so that if you are called upon then you won''t be overawed by it all, the fact you have a mtach at the end of it to try out the things that you''ve been practising is a bonus...

Perhaps, and I know that you will have to bear with me about this one as it would mean that there was no anti-Norwich conspiracy at play here, because the England goalkeeping coach works with Ruddy day in day out he knows exactly what he can do, Fraser Forster on the other hand they see intermittently and has very little opportunity to play against good quality opposition and so is a bit of a mystery and they wanted to see how he coped in the international arena. The fact that Forster was selected for the Chile match doesn''t necessarily mean that he is ahead of Ruddy, it just means that they wanted to see what he could do and from my perspective it wasn''t that much, he had mediocre to poor ditribution and as some other posters have pointed out looked a little bit slow and laboured at times. I fully expect that if JR has a reasonable second half of the season and stays healthy he will be on the plane to Brazil.

[quote user="ron obvious"]We will have taken the download option. We will have no physical existence. All our experiences will be virtual, & NCFC will be anything any particular person wants it to be.. "All shall be well, & all shall be well, & all manner of things shall be well"[/quote]   So for half of the people on the board we''ll be flirting with relegation to the celestial conference whilst on the 328th manager of the season then...

[quote user="TCCANARY"]Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action. Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day. Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd. Write Grant Holt a letter of apology. Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems. Become taller. Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club. Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested. Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it. Save a child from a burning building. [/quote]   I personally am not a Hughton outer, I think that there are very promising signs and ultimately we are only 3 points off the top half (not "nestled in the relegation zone" as some put it, as though we are making a cosy little bed for ourselves down there), but the injuries that we''ve currently got has me thinking that his time is limited unfortunately...   However, I had to post purely to comend TC for his response

Blimey, I didn''t realsie that there was such a big variation across Europe! I still prefer the idea of a pure knock out tournament though my reasoning for it just lost one of it''s legs... Thanks Bethnal

I think that these comments go to prove that the change in format of the UEFA cup to the Europa league were badly thought out and counter productive for the bigger leagues. Yes it guarantees more revenue for those from the smaller leagues as they have a guaranteed number of matches, but, for teams of our size in the big 5 leagues it probably isn''t worth the hassle due to the impact it then has on the following season. Also, with the larger number of teams and meaningless/predictable matches in some ways it can be a turn off for the fans. Bring back a simple, pan-european knock out competition, two legs per round. Increase the number of teams to 64, have no seeding at all and bang, you get excitement for all of the clubs in every match and you may get smaller teams making a run to the final, which in the current format is very unlikely...

So what should I do oh Waveney, the font of all supporter validation? I recognise that it is now to late to save myself, but to save others from being tainted by the touch of a plastic I shall banish myself from not only this forum but also all matches and forever more carry around a bell and a giant yellow flag so that others can identify me as the hopeless plastic I am and avoid me. What can I do to save my first born though? If he can''t follow in the footsteps of his old man then is he cursed to go through life as a floating supporter? Should I steer him away from football altogether lest the sins of the father be cast upon the son? Should I just admit defeat now and sacrifice him to the lords of plastic so that I may have some absolution? Please oh Waveney, guide me! I was lost but now am found, what hope do I have of regaining my place amongst the realms of the real supporter?

Thanks Waveney, now that''s cleared up I shall sleep better at night as I''m sure that''s what has been disturbing me for over half my life... You haven''t cleared up my second question though, is the son of a plastic a plastic? If so then I''m at a loss what to do with him, he can''t go through life as a Gills supporter

I support the team that was local to where I grew up, but I also support Norwich and have done for over twenty years now, does that make me a plastic?   (Just as a bit of background I was born in West Cumbria so have supported Carlisle all my life, the Premiership starting coincided with me going to secondary school so I felt I had to support someone in that, didn''t want to be a plastic and follow Man Utd/Liverpool as my friends did, my family supported Leeds and I couldn''t debase myself that much so I chose Norwich, they played good football and no one I knew supported them so there you go. Many years and many highs and more lows later, I''m still here and hopefully my son will follow in my wake the way I didn''t in my Dad''s. Incidentally, would that make him a plastic? Our local team these days would be Gillingham and I couldn''t do that to the la''al lad)...

Purps, I think that what he meant to say (that has been badly conveyed) was that was based on 94% occupation of the 35,000 capacity. My own fag packet calculations based on full occupancy said that we would need to only charge about £18.50 per ticket for the additional seats to make the £3m per year Bowkett quotes (so based on 94% occupancy that would be about £25.50) which would allow for a modest reduction of ticket prices around the ground...

[quote user="Nicko"]This medical is taking a long time[/quote]   Will people please stop saying this kind of thing in response to a medical! I''m not saying I believe that there is/was a player having a medical but do you actually believe that the player gets taken straight from the medical into the press conference to announce the signing?

1. Arsenal - Settled squad and more importantly manager and they actually look like they may spend some money this summer 2. Hull Cardiff, Sunderland - Sunderland for exactly the opposite reasons above (ignoring the spending money thing), Hull are assembling a good championship team and Cardiff are doing bu99er all (is it the Malky factor that people think is going to keep them up?) 3. 8th - a performance akin to WBA this year, start really well, keep going but tail off a bit at the end, though not quite as badly   I''d also agree with the shock of the year being Everton, they are an average team that was assembled to play one way, Martinez is nowhere near as good a manager as people seem to think and will be trying to fit a whole squad of square pegs into round holes, apart from the Wign players he''s signed, who have proven consistently that they''re barely good enough for this division.

[quote user="Indy"][quote user="cornish sam"][quote user="Indy"][quote user="cornish sam"][quote user="Indy"] I don''t do politics, all parties are as corrupt as eahc other, they only look after themselves, I am not blue, red orange or green. My view is instead of bickering at each other like over graown children, sit down, review the problems, formaulate a plan, instigate the plan and monitor the execusion, if the milestone are not met, then review and implement new solutions.   Easy really as a senior pm within the oil & gas world, we do this kind fo thing on a regular bases and can be implemented into any form of life event.   Don''t ask me about relegion too as I don''t do that either.   You do know that coal fired power stations are more expensive to build and the process a lot more complex than gas powered? [/quote]     Looks like you don''t do spelling either.... [/quote] Nope don''t have time to check what my sausage fingers have hit! Just type and post. [/quote]     I do like a good sausage fingers, always preferred monkey thumbs though. [/quote] I suppose it beats having fishy fingers.   Back to the thread, how about the question, it''s not about do we rate him but would we be happy as supporters to be paying 8.5 million + 7.5 million (three year wages) + signing on fees and such like for a 30 year old (31 this year), who speaks little English, never played outside his native country and might not settle in a quiet area of the UK?   A yes or no would do really.......   For me it''s a No. [/quote]   Well if you will be boring and get back on to the topic... He isn''t actually 31 until next year (January 31st), the 2.5 million quoted as a wage is in Euro (which I know has been discussed earlier and if you factor in employer NI that bumps it up, but since when does that actually get included in such discussions) and do we know he speaks little English or is that just an assumption? For me it''s a yes, I want Norwich to have that special something that he could bring regardless of the (in this instance not unreasonable) cost. If we were looking at a £15million fee with £60k p/w wages then that would be too much, but as the wages are not that much different to what we were paying Holt we are effectively paying £6.5million to get a younger, better Holt...