Len

One key difference between Redmond and Murphy is that Murphy looks like he has a striker''s instinct. Whatever their respective merits, neither player is likely to fulfill their potential if they''re playing alongside a limited central midfield.

[quote user="City1st"]the idea that a club with a capacity of 12,000, that with a temporary stand, could survive in the PL is laughable[/quote]They''re planning to expand their capacity to 18,000, compare that to Swansea''s attendances of around 20,000. It''s easy to gloat, but the facts are that since Delia has taken over we''ve p1$$3d millions up the wall going round in circles and been overtaken by clubs like Bournmouth and Swansea who have backed their managers in playing progressive football. Perhaps our club ought to be trying to figure out what they''re doing right instead of following the same discredited kick and rush formula season after season?

[quote user="City1st"][quote user="tenpenny"]It appears they have made a lot of investment in the club''s infrastructure to complement their progressive footballing approach. They certainly have the quality as a team to win the league and survive in the premiership. Contrasting that to our own approach we''ve made certain infrastructure investments but have neglected the most important aspect, ie the footballing side of things. If we got promoted (unlikely) then we''d not have much to offer over the usual lower prem sides and hence have a hard job to survive.[/quote]far cough bin boy ![/quote]Merry Christmas Herman.

It appears they have made a lot of investment in the club''s infrastructure to complement their progressive footballing approach. They certainly have the quality as a team to win the league and survive in the premiership. Contrasting that to our own approach we''ve made certain infrastructure investments but have neglected the most important aspect, ie the footballing side of things. If we got promoted (unlikely) then we''d not have much to offer over the usual lower prem sides and hence have a hard job to survive.

We were a Championship standard team when we were relegated, albeit some of our players were individually better than the majority in this division and capable of playing in the premier league. But to get out of this league you need to play well as a team and have a competent manager.So far we''ve seen little in terms of playing together as a team and are led by an inexperienced former U18s boss who has made typical beginners'' errors. We made some poor buys, overstocked the defence and failed to sufficiently strengthen our midfield in the last transfer window. Individually we may be a cut above, although not by as much as has been touted, but collectively we''re no higher than we deserve to be.To become established in the PL is another matter and as things stand we need more than the bog standard, low quality game being drilled into the players. Bournemouth are currently the team showing everyone else how to do things in terms of not sacrificing quality and building for the longer term, as opposed to cutting corners and hoping for the best.

Merry Christmas to all the plastics, glory hunters and hoofball lovers who inhabit this message board.

Most connoisseurs of the beautiful game will recognise that it''s a huge mistake to train up a generation of young players to play an old fashioned kick and rush game. But any criticism of the youth team, however valid or constuctive, will make the happy clappers on here react as if you''ve just told their 5 year old kid that Father Christmas isn''t real.

The Academy isn''t doing too well of late. A thrashing by Chelsea, a poor performance against Liverpool and the U18s getting knocked out of the FA Youth Cup by Doncaster last week. From the games I''ve seen we''ve looked pretty bog standard.

[quote user="City1st"]"Given that we''re somewhere in the middle of a 20 year slump in terms of development"   binpennyThere appears to be a bit of a competiton between binners on here to see who is the dimmest. Possibly as difficult (and pointless) as which is the fattest pig in suffolk.Slump, eh binboy ?Start of the art youth set up, best youth squads in my memoryBest squad in any Championship seasonDebt cleared, games sold out and hospitaly income that you paupers can only dream of[/quote]Evening Herman.

[quote user="mrs miggins"]In what way has adams tried to do both tenpenny if I may ask?[/quote]He tried to change the style (more passing, more all out attacking), but rather than perfect it he seems to be trying to force results. It''s a subtle difference, but it''s about emphasis on playing a certain way and getting the basics right versus chopping and changing and regularly doing what''s necessary however ugly.Not the same as League football, but look at the Belgian youth system focussing on technique and tactics rather than worrying about results. Paradoxically the results improved dramatically after the change of emphasis.

Looks like Fulham could be the team that comes from nowhere into the playoffs. How about them in the second leg of the semis after a goalless draw at the Carra?

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Vanwink"]LDC "We are well placed to get promotion with this squad and that is the mark of success this season - but if we are a team in development with a long term strategy then promotion isn''t a prime requirement this season. But that isn''t what we have been told.........." Completely lost me with this one.[/quote]Sorry. I meant that there are two possible strategies, either promotion or long term development. With Adams and co being appointed it looked as if a longer term view was being taken, but we were told that promotion was the main requirement. To achieve promotion AND establish a successful longer term way of working that means we can appoint from within, would be an achievement indeed.  We''ll see. [/quote]There''s a fair bit of truth in the promotion vs long term development argument, you really need to choose between one or the other. That''s not to say you don''t try and win games if you go down the developement route, or conversely don''t try and develop the team if you go for promotion.What''s happened is that Adams has tried to do both to a roughly equal extent and succeeded in neither. Given that we''re somewhere in the middle of a 20 year slump in terms of development, I would say long term development would have been the sensible choice. We had the opportunity to get in a suitable manager and coaching team, plus the parachute payments to finance this and get promoted within say a 3 year timeframe.

I think we''d be doing extremely well to make the playoffs this season. People say it''s a poor league but in truth it''s become more competetive in the last couple of years with more teams vying for a playoff spot.

[quote user="STFU"]Good idea tenpenny, let''s follow the Watford way, they''re on their 4th manager so far this season.[/quote]Stability isn''t isn''t the be all and end all, it was after all the reason cited for why Hughton wasn''t kicked out. Some clubs can change manager but have a good backroom staff to ease the transition.Of course Norwich are trying to implement a more stable backroom instead of having a whole team come in and go out when the manager is sacked. But instead of moving onto a more experienced manager who will play a technical style of football we have stuck with someone who panicked and resorted to a traditional British style after becoming hopelessly out of their depth trying to play an attacking game.We should have changed manager after the Reading game, but faced with the expense of another Europe-wide search and the prospect of admitting that Adams was a daft appointment the board opted for the half-measure of bringing in Phelan. Yet again they have been lulled into a false sense of security as results improved somewhat but the football remained poor.

Regardless of wages or whether a player wished to remain, several players decided they didn''t want to stay and play for a very inexperienced U18''s manager. The poor quality of football at Norwich was another related factor and this must for example have influenced Surman''s decision to return to Bournemouth.

Bassong even if consistently performing isn''t the reason Watford are ahead of us. Since Watford got taken over by the Italians they''ve decided to try improve their football by appointing a manager consistent with this aim. They seem to have learned that putting a Mackay or a Boothroyd in charge in an attempt to thump their way to success can only get a team so far. Instead they''ve gone for a succession of reasonably good foreign managers in an attempt to instill something of a progressive footballing ethos.While Watford were going down the quality route to try and build success Norwich were appointing managers that prefer a low skill direct game which relies on stifling their opponents. Watford appointed foreign coaches with some kind of experience, we appointed a youth team boss who had no record of producing anything in terms of modern progressive football. There aren''t many British-based managers who are willing or able to produce technical football, yet Norwich never seem to consider them when they''re available.

Mackay was perhaps the best qualified to play shoddy football in an attempt to grind out wins, his ''success'' being at a well-financed Cardiff side. Rosler didn''t work out at Wigan but his attempts to play quality football were at least in keeping with the Martinez era after Owen Coyle''s hatchet job. If Wigan continue to dismantle Martinez''s work then it''s a safe bet that they''ll get nowhere near their previous levels of success given that most of the competition are similarly poor in quality.Rosler would have been a good shout as Norwich manager but we''ve instead chosen to continue down the well-trodden low quality route and hence end up going nowhere. It''s these types of managers that are committed to quality, who are perhaps harshly sacked by short-sighted clubs hungry for instant success, that Norwich ought to go for instead of fallen dinosaurs like Mackay. When appointing managers we ought to look at the football rather than exclusively relying on the form book.

[quote user="Rivvo"][quote user="tenpenny"]It shows how far we''ve fallen when fans cheer a stodgy Hughton-like performance where we lacked invention and constantly gave the ball away.[/quote] I think you''re on the wrong forum, jog on please. [/quote]If you''re pleased by that performance then you''re probably supporting the wrong club. At the very best we were misfiring and lucky to draw the game. The football could have been far, far better.

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="tenpenny"]Whittaker has got Adams off the hook for the moment, but we''re some way off the top and needed a win. If we''re aiming for the automatics then a draw against a hesitant Derby side can only be viewed as two points dropped. The football was once again mostly terrible.[/quote]57% possesion 17 shots against 6totally dominated the supposed favourites on their own pitch.Derby very lucky to get a point after twice being in front.[/quote]Cherrypicked stats don''t show how we offered little threat against a team we should have beaten. Our attacks kept breaking down because we''re too limited in midfield and the final third. Too much sideways and backwards passing followed by a hoof up the pitch to make up lost ground, resulting in Derby being gifted possession. We contained them quite well at times and stopped them playing, but didn''t do enough when we had the ball.We''re halfway through the season and looks miles away from where we ought to be.

It shows how far we''ve fallen when fans cheer a stodgy Hughton-like performance where we lacked invention and constantly gave the ball away.

[quote user="mrs miggins"]To be fair what do you expect when we play with 4 centre mids; everything is going to the feet or to their heads, when you have no width (redmond) or no playmaker (hoolahan) to create angles, things become very difficult. However, a good point today, its the least neil needed imo, yet like most people, I think if we had played with a bit more width in the game, the outcome would''ve been more positive. Overall not a bad display.[/quote]Our squad is certainly lacking in midfield and what players we do have are limited in their collective ability to play together. We often have acres of space to play someone in for a shot but prefer to cross the ball into a crowded penalty area. Because we''re one dimensional in midfield we resort to long balls and crosses too often.

[quote user="lake district canary"]And the manager?  The longer he stays, the more credibility he will gain.   I''m not a believer, but if he surprises us doubters and keeps us near the top, he will be accepted  by most fans.  Fans of Norwich, that is....[/quote]So far we lack attacking threat, can''t keep possession and resort to hoofing it up to Jerome when we concede poor goals. The signs are that the longer he stays the more we will fall behind. We''re no better off under Adams than if Hughton had stayed.

Whittaker has got Adams off the hook for the moment, but we''re some way off the top and needed a win. If we''re aiming for the automatics then a draw against a hesitant Derby side can only be viewed as two points dropped. The football was once again mostly terrible.

Whittaker seems to be one of only a few prepared to use his technique and get a shot off. Brilliant strike.

Cracking penalty from Martin. His celebrations indicate that he owes Norwich nothing.This game is a yardstick for both automatic promotion and whether Adams remains in the job. Lose and we wave goodbye to both our manager and a top two finish.