At what point do you say...?

[First Wizard 0]

Goodbye Nigel!.

Firstly: 2 home games equals 2 points.

Secondly: Only average close season signings IMO, Marney excepted.

Now I said I would back Worthy for 10 games, but can we afford to wait that long?, I mean, if you can''t beat Coventry and Crewe at home, then something is seriously amiss

Bearing in mind last season performances, at what point, if results don''t improve quickly, do we say goodbye to Nigel. 10,15, 20 games or longer?.

Its vital City get back to the premiership ASP, with or without Nigel Worthington, I would prefer with, but already the clock is ticking I''m afraid!.

[nolegs 0]

As you said you would support him for the 1st 10 games,try doing it!

[Dicky 0]

2 games in and you are talking about sacking the manager?  1st Wiz you are an absolute ****!

[blacko 0]

Wiz we could easily have won last night, we had chances galore, Ashton tried too hard IMO, if we had won no doubt you would have a different opinion. So give them time, it will take some for the new players to gell and there was certainly the required effort. We will get there.

[Mark King 0]

I think it''s far too early to hit that panic button 1st Wiz. The first 2 games of the season certainly looked like bankers on paper - but so did Palace at home to Luton!

We will get it right, and remember, we''re only four points from top spot (ok, 2 from bottom as well!)

Mark (MileXboy)

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]2 games in and you are talking about sacking the manager? 1st Wiz you are an absolute ****![/quote]

Read the words Dicky, I didn''t say sack him!, I clearly stated I would prefer to go back to the premiership with him, yes?.

But you have to ask the question, just how long do you give a manager to get us firing on all cylinders again.

Rather than having a go at yours truly, just answer the question please.

[Hightower 0]

At what point do we say goodbye?  Dear oh dear. The improvement between Saturday and last night was big.  I hope it will continue to go the same way.  If we got to 10 or 20 games and were mid table should that be it? You''re having a laugh. Dowie proved you can be bottom few at Xmas and still go up when they were last in the Championship.  Roll on Saturday and Palace....(bet there''s no ''how long do we give Dowie?'' on their site and they''re bottom!)

[Dicky 0]

[quote]Read the words Dicky, I didn''t say sack him!, I clearly stated I would prefer to go back to the premiership with him, yes?. But you have to ask the question, just how long do you give a manager to ge...[/quote]

No, read my words - I clearly say "talking about sacking him".

Supporters who are constantly trying to cause unrest et al within the club, do our team a HUGE disservice. 

[AJ 1,221]

[quote]Read the words Dicky, I didn''t say sack him!, I clearly stated I would prefer to go back to the premiership with him, yes?. But you have to ask the question, just how long do you give a manager to ge...[/quote]

please whiz, forfill your promise of waiting 10 games. If he doesnt pick up the points then you are right and we shall bow down and kiss your feet (or maybe not ).

It might just take some time adjusting to this league, and if we miss out on the play-offs (at last resort) then worthy is going to undercome some serious fire. But i think worthy is right, the way he talked bout the conventry game was right, it wasnt so much him, it was the players, he himself was no-where near happy.

yes? give worthy time, and every player will be on their toes after worthy has had a good talk with them

[St.John Cooper 0]

Wiz i am with you. All these people who say dont panic give him a chance....well how long do you give before its to late. Thats what everyone said last year, "no theres a long way to go, its only the start of the season" but the points we have already dropped could prove crucial, like last year 2 points would have kept us up.

 

OTBC

 

St.John

 

 

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote]At what point do we say goodbye? Dear oh dear. The improvement between Saturday and last night was big. I hope it will continue to go the same way. If we got to 10 or 20 games and were mid table sh...[/quote]

While it is true to say that you can still be at the wrong end of the table at Xmas and then go up, it is very dangerous.   If we are off the pace come the transfer window it could make life very difficult.  It would prove a lot more difficult to find a suitable player on which to spend the Francis money.  More importantly it will be harder to retain the services of players like Green and Ashton if it is looking like we are going to have to play well just the make the playoffs.

I''m sure the board are not even thinking about giving Worthy a time limit.

[ZLF 274]

[quote]Wiz i am with you. All these people who say dont panic give him a chance....well how long do you give before its to late. Thats what everyone said last year, "no theres a long way to go, its only the ...[/quote]

How long do you give a manager to solve a defensive issue that has been apparent for 10 months and a midfield issue for 6 months?   

The issue of hux weakening the left side of the defence has been apparent for a year but remains unaddressed.

 

I am not advocating the dismissal of worthy but how long do we have to wait for some of the fundamentals to be addressed?  He does deserves a dozen or so games to get a new team to gel together but while we could have won the last two games comfortably enough to have been top on goal difference the fact is we have conceeded very two sloppy goals, have looked very weak in central midfield and  only taken 2 of the 5 clear chances on offer.

I am not prepared to put my head in the sand and say it will all come out in the wash; if there are issues they need addressing.         

Defence has to cut out the sloppy play and retain a shape, defend further up the pitch; the teams we have played have not exploited this so far but it is only a matter of time ; the coaching staff have to drill their prefered back four to get it to work.  Any player making mistakes week in week out will have them higlighted - MLJ was ok on sat, not last night. 

Midfield - we have to retain and obtain possession far better than we are now,  wemust get closer to the forwards who are looking isolated and starved of service.  Again this is a coachable issue on the training ground that the current squad should address.  Hughes was OK on sat but had a bad game last night.  Central midfield was weak in both games until Safri appeared.  

Forwards are lacking that sharpness otherwise we would be top; better service would help as would some shooting practice but the goals will come from Leon and Deano.

 

At some stage tho the point must arrive when we say that I am sorry but yuor efforts were not good enough.   However we are months away from that yet.

OTBC

[rich 0]

id say you answered your own question wiz,ten to twenty games in then we start asking
serious questions. I agree there are lots of question
marks about the team, but there were some good signs last
night. sacking a manager two games in achieves nothing look at southampton and newcastle last season.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

ZLF - what an excellent reply.   Glad to see that the "Worthy Out" knee jerk reactions aren''t too vociferous - Dicky''s obviously got himself a little worked up over it, but everyone else seems to be of the suck it and see persuasion...

 

Personally I think that 10 games is a little to far to go - God willing we''ll be name calling each other over threads such as this in a couple of months, but the fact of the matter is that 10 games into the season we should certainly be in the top 3 if we want to be considered genuine title contenders.   There are a lot of people out there who have either chosen to ignore or were completely ignorant of the fact that the Championship is probably the hardest & most competitive division to get out of - to do it in a season when there is a positive surfeit of good teams will take some doing.    The Premiership is not a level playing field - the Championship is (there''s no Chelsea/Arsenal/ManUre) and we need to wake up and smell the coffee.   As far as I''m concerned (and hopefully the board are as well), failure is NOT an option.

[Putney Canary 0]

At least lets see what the team can do when we can start with the first choice 11! 2 games is way too early, unless you want to come across like a whinging West Ham fan demanding their club should be in the Premiership. Don''t forget what a tough league this is, how competitive it is, we AREN''T too good for this division. However some points need to be addressed it seems.

The major disappointments last season were (for me);

1. Taking so long to find our best starting 11. If this takes 20 games this season, we won''t be getting promoted. We can all probably agree on midfield and attack (I think I''m in a minority not being a huge Leon fan though), but defensively we can''t agree on who to partner Shacks, and don''t know enough of what Colin can do yet. We have to find the first choice starters ASAP, they need to gel.

2. As ZLF says, learning how to put a team out that can live with Hucks. When we play him up front he drifts left, when we start him on the left midfield, he isn''t good at tracking back leaving us exposed. This killed us last season, but the season before the system obviously worked! I think Worthy can get this right, but we need Safri it seems, and he won''t be here all season because of the African Nations cup.

Also, as ZLF says, "Forwards are lacking that sharpness otherwise we would be top". With this in mind, we really don''t have too much to complain about right now. With all the faults, we are creating good chances. I wouldn''t bet on Ashton missing so many chances again, but fear that Leon will...

[Mark .Y. 352]

Well, I think 10 games is fair but I do agree with ZLF about a lot of things. Some of the problems we have had in pre-season and now in the league are not new so I go for the 10 games but with "riders":

1. We need to sort out the centre of defence, either Colin gets trialled there with Shacks or we get a new centre-half (maybe a new one anyway if the Colin/Shackell partnership is not successful) 

2. We need a new centre midfield player who can create, this must be a player who can step straight into the first team, not a squad    player like Hughes

3. We start talking more about skill on the ball than "high tempo" and "good energy".

 

Mark .Y.

[T07 0]

[quote]At what point do we say goodbye? Dear oh dear. The improvement between Saturday and last night was big. I hope it will continue to go the same way. If we got to 10 or 20 games and were mid table sh...[/quote]

The change of oppo wasn''t exactly insignificant

[LinkNR9 0]

Saint canary has a very good point; if we''re still off the pace at Xmas, then Green and Deano will be more than tempted to move back to the Premiership, and understandably so. The standard of our squad is such that things will get worse before they get better if we don''t add some quality in defence and midfield by the end of the transfer window, so urgent action is required soon.  

[Tumbleweed 106]

10 games max, as many opined in the close season.

I don''t want to parrot Zipper again but our basic fundamental problems are still not resolved. To all those who said that Shacks, Doc, and Flem would be fine "at this level" its already proved to be utter tosh.

The defending in two games has already been shambolic at times, two soft goals and Crewe had plenty of other chances which they could have scored from- players in the penalty area with just Green to beat and no-one within sight.

The midfield also looks lightweight. Little support for Deano and Leon who only get Marney and Hux as support and Hux looks to have lost some of his ability to get past people- too much tracking back before crossing.

We are also playing at the wrong tempo- too frenetic and impatient too many long balls. We were so much better when passing it around and not giving away possession in stupid places. We should have the confidence to play our own game- we don''t need to boot everything to Hux or Dean. Play our own game, put a foot on the ball when we can and make the opposition work hard to get it back.

It is however early days and we have to hope that Jarrett and Hughes improve to give Safri some back up who looked pure class when he came on. Marney has been our best player so far, but we need to get him into the game more in good positions. Leon looks very sharp, Dean needs to be a bit less selfish when 25 yards out- there are often better options available.

But passing, marking, positional play and tactics have not moved on. That''s a coaching problem and no amount of player budget will sort that out.

[Birchington Yellow 0]

If Worthy goes (I want him to stay), who do we replace him with ?

I think Worthy is a decent manager and improving, albeit slowly, maybe the coaching \ coaching staff should be looked at though. We don''t seem to learn lessons from mistakes, surely the defence \ midfield needs better coaching to improve, and although the early signs are that he''s improving why does Greeno persist in staying on his line so much ? Must be able to coach that out of him surely.