England-Uruguay

[Syteanric 1]

And the Decline of English football (or Rather england) continues...

24 years ago we went with a real chance of returning as champions, 12 years ago we aimed for the quarter finals.... now we look to just get out of the group.

Time is running out and unless those in power address it then England will be aiming to simply qualify for major tournaments... don''t stop the planes engine.. this wont take long.

Clubs Like Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal should be made to send their young english players abroad and find them permanent clubs. the foreign contigent over here have not only learned the english way of playing (and how to beat them). but also the way of life and culture. Knowing what makes fans and players tick. Sending our players abroad and allowing them 1st team football in Spain and Italy will do the same...

Foregin clubs do not sign english players.. the ONLY reason for this is that out top level coaching is pathetic.. English players are not good enough. the aim of "Bigger, faster, stronger" is fine if you are runner... but football requires skill, awareness, understanding... the fittest side in the world can out run and out last their opponents but if they''ve already been passed off the pitch and are 6-0 down then does that fitness really matter?

St Georges park is a waste of time.. a "dedicated English training facility" that only the Elite can afford to use... why not bring a road show accross the UK. or set up Mini St Georges parks in every region and open to all grass roots youth clubs?

Make the most of it everyone. because in a decades time you will be watching the World Cup/Euro''s wondering if england will ever leave these shores and play in them again.

[sgncfc 1,253]

[quote user="splutcho"]We got done on the counter twice from two bits of poor Gerrard play. They had two shots on target and scored both. That''s football, sh*t happens.[/quote]

We were outplayed by a nation of 3.5m people and a poor football infrastructure.

Our tactics are still years behind; our players are not fit enough and we don''t have good ball skills. Until we get those three right we haven''t a prayer.

How many of our team would get in a decent national team - a Germany, Brazil, Argentina? Maybe Rooney (but probably not), no one else.

But, to be honest, I couldn''t really give a monkeys about corrupt old FIFA''s world party.

[sgncfc 1,253]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

And the Decline of English football (or Rather england) continues...

24 years ago we went with a real chance of returning as champions, 12 years ago we aimed for the quarter finals.... now we look to just get out of the group.

Time is running out and unless those in power address it then England will be aiming to simply qualify for major tournaments... don''t stop the planes engine.. this wont take long.

Clubs Like Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal should be made to send their young english players abroad and find them permanent clubs. the foreign contigent over here have not only learned the english way of playing (and how to beat them). but also the way of life and culture. Knowing what makes fans and players tick. Sending our players abroad and allowing them 1st team football in Spain and Italy will do the same...

Foregin clubs do not sign english players.. the ONLY reason for this is that out top level coaching is pathetic.. English players are not good enough. the aim of "Bigger, faster, stronger" is fine if you are runner... but football requires skill, awareness, understanding... the fittest side in the world can out run and out last their opponents but if they''ve already been passed off the pitch and are 6-0 down then does that fitness really matter?

St Georges park is a waste of time.. a "dedicated English training facility" that only the Elite can afford to use... why not bring a road show accross the UK. or set up Mini St Georges parks in every region and open to all grass roots youth clubs?

Make the most of it everyone. because in a decades time you will be watching the World Cup/Euro''s wondering if england will ever leave these shores and play in them again.

[/quote]

I think the problem might be that the clubs you mention don''t really have any young English players.

[splutcho 174]

We weren''t outplayed. They had two shots on target. But feel free to side step the facts.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="sgncfc"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]

And the Decline of English football (or Rather england) continues...

24 years ago we went with a real chance of returning as champions, 12 years ago we aimed for the quarter finals.... now we look to just get out of the group.

Time is running out and unless those in power address it then England will be aiming to simply qualify for major tournaments... don''t stop the planes engine.. this wont take long.

Clubs Like Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal should be made to send their young english players abroad and find them permanent clubs. the foreign contigent over here have not only learned the english way of playing (and how to beat them). but also the way of life and culture. Knowing what makes fans and players tick. Sending our players abroad and allowing them 1st team football in Spain and Italy will do the same...

Foregin clubs do not sign english players.. the ONLY reason for this is that out top level coaching is pathetic.. English players are not good enough. the aim of "Bigger, faster, stronger" is fine if you are runner... but football requires skill, awareness, understanding... the fittest side in the world can out run and out last their opponents but if they''ve already been passed off the pitch and are 6-0 down then does that fitness really matter?

St Georges park is a waste of time.. a "dedicated English training facility" that only the Elite can afford to use... why not bring a road show accross the UK. or set up Mini St Georges parks in every region and open to all grass roots youth clubs?

Make the most of it everyone. because in a decades time you will be watching the World Cup/Euro''s wondering if england will ever leave these shores and play in them again.

[/quote] I think the problem might be that the clubs you mention don''t really have any young English players.[/quote]

 

Perhaps, but then other clubs do... so why should the likes of Gerrard, Rooney and Welbeck get anywhere near the team if a youngster at say a Southampton, Villa or even Norwich is waiting?

 

the problem goes much deeper than that... 1966 was the worst thing to happen to Engglish football.. it sounds odd but had the country NEVEr won the world cup they''d be the best nation in the world right now.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="splutcho"]We weren''t outplayed. They had two shots on target. But feel free to side step the facts.[/quote]

The difference was Uruguay have 1 world class player and england dont have any.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

[quote user="splutcho"]We weren''t outplayed. They had two shots on target. But feel free to side step the facts.[/quote]

The difference was Uruguay have 1 world class player and england dont have any.

[/quote]That was certainly one of the facts, Jas. But however you quantify it in addition to chance conversion (eg posession, pass completion etc) , I''m sorry, Splutch, yes, we were outplayed by a technically/tactically superior setup.With respect, it''s you who are sidestepping the facts.

[splutcho 174]

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/uruguay-vs-england/1220090/stats?ICID=MP_MS_4

More possession, over double completed passes, far higher pass completion, more shots on target, fouled more. But yeah, outplayed.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Are those the official stats, Splutch ? Because they are hugely at variance with the ones revealed after the match on TV last night. Those were suggesting that Uruguay''s passing accuracy was twice as good as England''s.But, ultimately, all that matters is they scored two and we only scored one.

[splutcho 174]

They''re in line with the bbc stats Reggie.

Reading back I come across as really sarcastic and a bit of a d*ck, which is not how I intended, I like you as a poster so I''m not after an argument. But to me all the stats point towards us having the better of it, just getting done on the break by a world class player. And as you say, all that really matters is they won 2-1.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Are those the official stats, Splutch ? Because they are hugely at variance with the ones revealed after the match on TV last night. Those were suggesting that Uruguay''s passing accuracy was twice as good as England''s.But, ultimately, all that matters is they scored two and we only scored one.[/quote]

Whoscored.com (who get their statistics straight from OPTA) have it like this:

Shots: England 12 (6 on target), Uruguay 8 (2 on target)

Possession: England 63%, Uruguay 37%

Pass accuracy: England 83%, Uruguay 63% 

    

[GJP 79]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

[quote user="splutcho"]We weren''t outplayed. They had two shots on target. But feel free to side step the facts.[/quote]

The difference was Uruguay have 1 world class player and england dont have any.

[/quote]

Well, more specifically, they have a world class forward. Give Suarez a bit more pace and you''re probably looking at the best player in the world. As it is he''s still amongst the top 4 or 5.

 

Sturridge is a bit of a threat because he''s got a bit of pace and he can finish but some of his decision making and use of the ball needs to improve. He wastes a lot of good opportunities and positions trying to beat a player he doesn''t need to or not holding the ball up when he needs to etc.

 

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="splutcho"]They''re in line with the bbc stats Reggie.

Reading back I come across as really sarcastic and a bit of a d*ck, which is not how I intended, I like you as a poster so I''m not after an argument. But to me all the stats point towards us having the better of it, just getting done on the break by a world class player. And as you say, all that really matters is they won 2-1.[/quote]

It''s a combination of defensive mistakes and an ultra-clinical striker. The mistakes we made defensively often left Suarez in an excellent shooting position and someone of his ability is going to convert chances in those positions 9 times out of 10. If Gerrard and Henderson had offered more protection to the back four, If Jagielka hadn''t let Suarez run off him for that 1st goal, If Johnson could actually defend... A basic lack of defensive coaching that would allow us to protect what was clearly a vulnerable defence, plus the quality of Suarez, destroyed us.  

Hodgson should go back to his strengths: Defensive shape and counter-attacking. As I mentioned before, England should play like the current Switzerland side: Highly organised in defence with a good, direct, attacking 4 in a 4-2-3-1.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="splutcho"]They''re in line with the bbc stats Reggie.

Reading back I come across as really sarcastic and a bit of a d*ck, which is not how I intended, I like you as a poster so I''m not after an argument. But to me all the stats point towards us having the better of it, just getting done on the break by a world class player. And as you say, all that really matters is they won 2-1.[/quote]Fair enough, Splutch. I too checked the BBC posession stats and, spookily ,the percentages 63 to 37 were the same in the England-Uruguay game as in Spain -Chile  (Spain having the 63%) . All it goes to prove is stats ultimately mean very little, I guess !

[GJP 79]

Although Hodgson has given youth and new players a chance I do think it was a bit short-sighted of him not to give Curtis Davies a chance.

[......and Smith must score. 1,357]

While no sane person would ever think we were going to win the thing it''s pretty disappointing to be as good as out after only two games. That said I thought over the two games we played pretty well. We certainly had a fair few chances and were not that much poorer than the opposition overall.What can you say about Suarez ? Undoubtedly world class. He was a handful all game and will give better defences than ours a tough time.One thing I was pleased to see missing this time was the ridiculous '' this is our year '' nonsense that gets bandied about before each tournament. We''re normally trapped in a 1966 mentality ( conveniently forgetting that after Mexico in 1970 it took us 12 years to get back into the finals ! ) At least this time we were spared all that Gerrard/Rooney '' we can win it '' guff and those irritating little plastic flags flapping away on car windows.Some teams always enter the competition knowing full well they''re c*ap and just go along to enjoy the ride. In the last few years it''s finally dawned on England that they too are not very good. Until someone can wave a magic wand and do something about it we may as well relax and just go along for the jolly too. 

[ZLF 274]

The spring build up to this tournament was littered with concerns about the defence and the quality going forward, which in the end is what what transpired.

We had our 4 best defenders on show and they were found wanting at crucial times; defend soundly and even "world class" suarez or the more ordinary balotelli dont get the chance to score they goals they did.

Like wise the quality of our final ball was universally abysmal - only rooneys cross against italy was incisive enough. Thats where sterling and wellbeck in particular let themselves down.

But the positives were enormous. We have introduced a new generation of players and they have shown that while they are inconsistent and make poor choices that they can scare opponents defences. They will improve - next time sterling will resemble lee croft less (exciting to watch but running into a blind alley and yet another poor cross) and develop into a top creative midfielder. Sturridge was superb (my player of the tournament for england so far) but again will improve his choices and henderson can become the anchor in midfield now that gerrard will hopefully retire. We should have made better use of lallana ahead of sterling but beyond that the managers tactics were sound.

The defence and keeper (I still feel hart ducked a little for the second yest) are a concern, esp cb, perhaps a frantic passport check to adopt a decent player is urgently needed....

Disappointing we did not match our performance level against Italy, but that inconsistency is another symptom of inexperience, but much to look forward to.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

Good tactical analysis article here:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2014/06/20/world-cup-2014-group-stage-day-8/

and here:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/19/england-uruguay-world-cup-group-d-tactics

[GJP 79]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]  The defence and keeper (I still feel hart ducked a little for the second yest) are a concern,  [/quote]

Hart showed Suarez the whole goal. He ducked/turned his back on the shot. Suarez struck it well but only hit it into the middle of the net.

 

Add that to him standing off his line more than once at corners to invite Suarez into those low efforts curling into the near post and the way he left home against Italy and needed to Jagielka to bail him out and it''s been far from a convincing display from Hart.

 

But there you go, Hodgson has never really made Hart think his place is under threat.

[Canary fun and games 0]

There is clearly a problem with the quality of coaching in the English game at the moment. We got relegated on the back of hapless hughtons poor coaching and England have followed.

The Messiah learnt his craft in Germany and studied Barca at their height.

Back to basics for the English game

[Phillip J Fry 0]

FA have confirmed that Hodgson will remain England boss until 2016.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2663846/Roy-Hodgson-remain-charge-England-2016-FA-chairman-Greg-Dyke-confirms.html

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Herr Flick"]There is clearly a problem with the quality of coaching in the English game at the moment. We got relegated on the back of hapless hughtons poor coaching and England have followed.

The Messiah learnt his craft in Germany and studied Barca at their height.

Back to basics for the English game[/quote]The Messiah couldn''t Handel it........

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Herr Flick"]There is clearly a problem with the quality of coaching in the English game at the moment. We got relegated on the back of hapless hughtons poor coaching and England have followed.

The Messiah learnt his craft in Germany and studied Barca at their height.

Back to basics for the English game[/quote][quote user="River end Canary"]There is clearly a problem with the

quality of coaching in the English game at the moment. We got relegated

on the back of hapless hughtons poor coaching and England have followed.

The Messiah learnt his craft in Germany and studied Barca at their

height.

Back to basics for the English game[/quote]Why on earth bother Waveney Canary / Canary from the Waveney Valley / Thorpe End Canary / River End Canary / Marvin Fairlady / Mike Hunt / Lowestoft Canary / Norwich4life / Herr Flick / Humpty the canary / Newton?What do you get out of it?

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I bet Ruddy is glad he didn''t bother get selected now! What an absolute pathetic world cup from England. I don''t know how Woy is keeping his job.

[mrs miggins 0]

You don''t know how Woy is keeping his job? FA want someone safe...ala Woy Hodgson

[Tetteys Jig 830]

We''re cursed. I''m not sure we''ll ever even get close in my life time and i''m only 26! Too many of our players stick about in English football and forget that the game goes on elsewhere. Time some of them grew balls like Gareth Bale and actually tried their luck abroad. It might teach them a thing or two.

[Wizard of Waveney 0]

How can Woy survive. It is ridiculous

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I bet Ruddy is glad he didn''t bother get selected now! What an absolute pathetic world cup from England. I don''t know how Woy is keeping his job.[/quote]

Because by and large he''s done a decent job. Yeah, he''s put too much faith in both Gerrard and Rooney and I think that in some ways he''s moved away from aspects of his coaching that have been detrimental to the team (notably when it comes to defensive coaching) but he''s done what''s been asked: He got England into the World Cup and has started to bring through the younger crop of players that have shown a degree of talent and potential that indicates it''s not all hopeless.

I find it utterly ridiculous that many people were saying before the World Cup that Hodgson should do exactly as he has done (take the younger players as we have no hope of winning and it would be a good experience for them) are now the same people who are demanding he be sacked because our results have not been good enough!  

Hodgson has every right to try and take this team to the Euro''s and as long as he continues his policy of implementing the young players, and sorts out our defensive issues, then it will be a much more successful tournament than this one.

[Herman 9,820]

That was, er, crap while it lasted. Bloody England.

[Guest]

Still, won''t be long before the over hyped Premier league starts again and then we can start raving about Rooney and Gerard and how world class they are.

Can they not see? Can they not learn?

I remember listening to the radio when we lost to Germany last time and the same things were being said after that game. Tactics wrong and the wrong personnel in the wrong positions.

But still the same approach from the "experts" in the game. All the pundits thought Rooney was our best player last night. Of course they did, they all said he HAD to play so no admitting they were wrong there then.

So now we have the scenario of Uruguay beating Italy and England and Italy going out while the minnows with a combined population much less than Greater London going through.

On one hand we are told that us mere "followers" don''t really understand football but are later told Roy caved into pressure from elsewhere to play Rooney.

So come 16 August, everything will be forgotten, we will eventually qualify for Euro2016 and once again be embarrassed at the tournament because nothing will be learnt.