"they must win their home matches against teams as ambition-free as Chris Hughton's Norwich"

[a1canary 0]

Not my words, from Guardian match report re Palace.

Damning.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Damning for Norwich? Or Palace?  Or both?

 

No side in the current bottom ten have won a home match against Chris Hughton''s Norwich...

 

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Damning for Norwich? Or Palace?  Or both?

 

No side in the current bottom ten have won a home match against Chris Hughton''s Norwich...

 

 

[/quote]I love these stats you come up with[:D]

[Tetteys Jig 851]

It was drab, as our whole holiday season has been, but take that game on it''s own and it''s not a bad point. The weather made it difficult to play the game properly and if there was one team that looked like they lacked ambition out there it was Palace.

I agree that Palace should be beating teams ''like us'' though if they want to stay up.

[City 2nd 193]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 5:17 AM:

Damning for Norwich? Or Palace? Or both?

No side in the current bottom ten have won a home match against Chris Hughton''s Norwich...

And between seasons 2012/13 and 2013/14 to date Norwich city have won FIVE away matches.

You can make it read how you like Nigel, but that stat is abysmal and puts into perspective your post.

[can u sit down please 0]

2) Why are Norwich so boring?

Watching Norwich City can be a forgettable experience, especially away from home. The treacherous conditions at Selhurst Park contributed to the lack of quality in their 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace but Chris Hughton should surely be getting more out of his players. While he argued that they were the better side in open play, the fact is that other than Bradley Johnson''s fine goal, which was down to an error by Danny Gabbidon, Norwich created only one proper chance in the match, which Nathan Redmond could not take. There are talented players at Norwich – Leroy Fer, Robert Snodgrass, Redmond and Gary Hooper – but too often they are set up negatively by Hughton and, although they look as if they have just about enough to stay up, they are unlikely to give their fans too many thrills along the way. Jacob Steinberg

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="City 2nd"]nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 5:17 AM:

Damning for Norwich? Or Palace? Or both?

No side in the current bottom ten have won a home match against Chris Hughton''s Norwich...

And between seasons 2012/13 and 2013/14 to date Norwich city have won FIVE away matches.

You can make it read how you like Nigel, but that stat is abysmal and puts into perspective your post.[/quote]Interestingly enough, that''s 2 more than Stoke, and 1 more than West Ham over the same period.How many away wins over a season and a half in this league is acceptable?

[Making Plans 957]

^ Says it all

[Herman 11,136]

Most damning is that we are after Stoke on MOTD.

[morty 0]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]2) Why are Norwich so boring?

Watching Norwich City can be a forgettable experience, especially away from home. The treacherous conditions at Selhurst Park contributed to the lack of quality in their 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace but Chris Hughton should surely be getting more out of his players. While he argued that they were the better side in open play, the fact is that other than Bradley Johnson''s fine goal, which was down to an error by Danny Gabbidon, Norwich created only one proper chance in the match, which Nathan Redmond could not take. There are talented players at Norwich – Leroy Fer, Robert Snodgrass, Redmond and Gary Hooper – but too often they are set up negatively by Hughton and, although they look as if they have just about enough to stay up, they are unlikely to give their fans too many thrills along the way. Jacob Steinberg[/quote]I''m afraid I don''t buy into this.If Arsenal or Man Utd go away from home, play it tight and nick a win by the odd goal, I suspect the same journo would salivate over the clever game they have played.Frankly its small club prejudice, people like this want us to be plucky but small, to provide entertainment by playing gung ho, naive football. They don''t want us to succeed, merely to play our part as whipping boys. They love it when we play open and get gubbed by the "big boys" it writes their headlines for them.

[Waveney Canary 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="can u sit down please"]2) Why are Norwich so boring? Watching Norwich City can be a forgettable experience, especially away from home. The treacherous conditions at Selhurst Park contributed to the lack of quality in their 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace but Chris Hughton should surely be getting more out of his players. While he argued that they were the better side in open play, the fact is that other than Bradley Johnson''s fine goal, which was down to an error by Danny Gabbidon, Norwich created only one proper chance in the match, which Nathan Redmond could not take. There are talented players at Norwich – Leroy Fer, Robert Snodgrass, Redmond and Gary Hooper – but too often they are set up negatively by Hughton and, although they look as if they have just about enough to stay up, they are unlikely to give their fans too many thrills along the way. Jacob Steinberg[/quote]

I''m afraid I don''t buy into this.

If Arsenal or Man Utd go away from home, play it tight and nick a win by the odd goal, I suspect the same journo would salivate over the clever game they have played.

Frankly its small club prejudice, people like this want us to be plucky but small, to provide entertainment by playing gung ho, naive football. They don''t want us to succeed, merely to play our part as whipping boys. They love it when we play open and get gubbed by the "big boys" it writes their headlines for them.
[/quote]

 

Clearly Hapless has small club prejudice the amount of times we have been gubbed this season

[morty 0]

[quote user="Waveney canary"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="can u sit down please"]2) Why are Norwich so boring? Watching Norwich City can be a forgettable experience, especially away from home. The treacherous conditions at Selhurst Park contributed to the lack of quality in their 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace but Chris Hughton should surely be getting more out of his players. While he argued that they were the better side in open play, the fact is that other than Bradley Johnson''s fine goal, which was down to an error by Danny Gabbidon, Norwich created only one proper chance in the match, which Nathan Redmond could not take. There are talented players at Norwich – Leroy Fer, Robert Snodgrass, Redmond and Gary Hooper – but too often they are set up negatively by Hughton and, although they look as if they have just about enough to stay up, they are unlikely to give their fans too many thrills along the way. Jacob Steinberg[/quote]I''m afraid I don''t buy into this.If Arsenal or Man Utd go away from home, play it tight and nick a win by the odd goal, I suspect the same journo would salivate over the clever game they have played.Frankly its small club prejudice, people like this want us to be plucky but small, to provide entertainment by playing gung ho, naive football. They don''t want us to succeed, merely to play our part as whipping boys. They love it when we play open and get gubbed by the "big boys" it writes their headlines for them.[/quote]

 

Clearly Hapless has small club prejudice the amount of times we have been gubbed this season

[/quote]Thanks for your insightful contribution[Y]

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="can u sit down please"]2) Why are Norwich so boring? Watching Norwich City can be a forgettable experience, especially away from home. The treacherous conditions at Selhurst Park contributed to the lack of quality in their 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace but Chris Hughton should surely be getting more out of his players. While he argued that they were the better side in open play, the fact is that other than Bradley Johnson''s fine goal, which was down to an error by Danny Gabbidon, Norwich created only one proper chance in the match, which Nathan Redmond could not take. There are talented players at Norwich – Leroy Fer, Robert Snodgrass, Redmond and Gary Hooper – but too often they are set up negatively by Hughton and, although they look as if they have just about enough to stay up, they are unlikely to give their fans too many thrills along the way. Jacob Steinberg[/quote]

I''m afraid I don''t buy into this.

If Arsenal or Man Utd go away from home, play it tight and nick a win by the odd goal, I suspect the same journo would salivate over the clever game they have played.

Frankly its small club prejudice, people like this want us to be plucky but small, to provide entertainment by playing gung ho, naive football. They don''t want us to succeed, merely to play our part as whipping boys. They love it when we play open and get gubbed by the "big boys" it writes their headlines for them.
[/quote]

There''s some merit in this point Morty, but don''t forget the other point which has turned it for me this season re Hughton. Which is that he DOES try and play it tight and make us hard to beat (against the big boys especially) and the result is we get hammered just as badly as when we played open and tried to attack the big teams under Lambert. The reality is that most of the time teams like will be well beaten by the big guns most of the time whether we play tight and defensive or open and attacking. So even if both tactics yield the same or similar results over the long term, i feel the negative associations and fan (and media) dissatisfaction with defensive tactics will erode confidence in the side. Lambert''s philosophy (and perhaps more appropriately the likes of Laudrup too) is always that your number one priority is to have a threat. Hughton''s priorty is to be solid. That is not to say Hughton doesn''t want to attack or Lambert doesn''t want to defend, it''s about the philosophy and therefore the way in which their respective teams set up and play. And i''m afraid that in part because of the bias you refer to, people will always prefer the "threat first" philosophy, and i can see why.

[a1canary 0]

I suppose it''s more accurate to say if Hughton''s top priority is to be solid and Lambert''s is to have a threat, Laudrup''s (and Rodger''s) would be to retain posession, but either way i think Laudrup''s philosophy is more attacking than Hughton''s.

[KeelansGlove 0]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]2) Why are Norwich so boring?

Watching Norwich City can be a forgettable experience, especially away from home. The treacherous conditions at Selhurst Park contributed to the lack of quality in their 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace but Chris Hughton should surely be getting more out of his players. While he argued that they were the better side in open play, the fact is that other than Bradley Johnson''s fine goal, which was down to an error by Danny Gabbidon, Norwich created only one proper chance in the match, which Nathan Redmond could not take. There are talented players at Norwich – Leroy Fer, Robert Snodgrass, Redmond and Gary Hooper – but too often they are set up negatively by Hughton and, although they look as if they have just about enough to stay up, they are unlikely to give their fans too many thrills along the way. Jacob Steinberg[/quote]

Wow I take back all those things I said about the gutter press, that for me hits the nail squarely on the head.

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="KeelansGlove"][quote user="can u sit down please"]2) Why are Norwich so boring? Watching Norwich City can be a forgettable experience, especially away from home. The treacherous conditions at Selhurst Park contributed to the lack of quality in their 1-1 draw with Crystal Palace but Chris Hughton should surely be getting more out of his players. While he argued that they were the better side in open play, the fact is that other than Bradley Johnson''s fine goal, which was down to an error by Danny Gabbidon, Norwich created only one proper chance in the match, which Nathan Redmond could not take. There are talented players at Norwich – Leroy Fer, Robert Snodgrass, Redmond and Gary Hooper – but too often they are set up negatively by Hughton and, although they look as if they have just about enough to stay up, they are unlikely to give their fans too many thrills along the way. Jacob Steinberg[/quote] Wow I take back all those things I said about the gutter press, that for me hits the nail squarely on the head.[/quote]

Bit harsh to call the Guardian ''gutter press'', whatever your political persuasion!

[City 2nd 193]

The ghost of Michael Theoklitos wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 2:16 PM:

Interestingly enough, that''s 2 more than Stoke, and 1 more than West Ham over the same period.

How many away wins over a season and a half in this league is acceptable?

Yes and they are really poor sides. And it''s not just the away wins gomt, the home form and results achieved are pretty damn poor too if we are bring frank. I do not see the point whereby do many supporters compare us to the likes of teams around us - Hughton spent 39 million approx, and the idea, certainly in the eyes of Bowkett as stated at the AGM was to take us to the next level. Surely this means being far better than our current position is!

Just how anyone can believe that Hughton, Calderwood and Trollope have improved us and taken us forward thus season us lamentable. The points tally, results, goals for and against column and league position do not lie!

[KeelansGlove 0]

My politics are irrelevant the sooner all newspapers disappear or revert to the chip wrappers they actually are will be a day I can rejoice.

Get rid of all organised religions too and then we might actually truly have a happy new year.

[Nuff Said 5,967]

[quote user="City 2nd"]The ghost of Michael Theoklitos wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 2:16 PM:

Interestingly enough, that''s 2 more than Stoke, and 1 more than West Ham over the same period.

How many away wins over a season and a half in this league is acceptable?

Yes and they are really poor sides. And it''s not just the away wins gomt, the home form and results achieved are pretty damn poor too if we are bring frank. I do not see the point whereby do many supporters compare us to the likes of teams around us - Hughton spent 39 million approx, and the idea, certainly in the eyes of Bowkett as stated at the AGM was to take us to the next level. Surely this means being far better than our current position is!

Just how anyone can believe that Hughton, Calderwood and Trollope have improved us and taken us forward thus season us lamentable. The points tally, results, goals for and against column and league position do not lie![/quote]Did he?

[Tetteys Jig 851]

I just can''t believe we are still 3 points off the top 10! So many missed opportunities have passed us the last few games too. I''m now pinning that Hull home match as defining. Fer will be back after a much needed rest, Howson will be back and hopefully RVW gets a confidence boosting goal versus Fulham in the FA cup. I feel his form will prove key to our chances this season.

[City 2nd 193]

Dear me, keyboard error - and you are bright enough to notice it - well done. Unfortunately the 9 is next to the 0 on my ipad, and yes, he spent approx 30 million.

That do you you very intelligent person. Xx

[City 2nd 193]

Jimmy Smith wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 3:19 PM:

I just can''t believe we are still 3 points off the top 10! So many missed opportunities have passed us the last few games too. I''m now pinning that Hull home match as defining. Fer will be back after a much needed rest, Howson will be back and hopefully RVW gets a confidence boosting goal versus Fulham in the FA cup. I feel his form will prove key to our chances this season.

Suggestion from EDP''s paddy davitt after Hughton iview that Howson may well be long term injury Jim.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="City 2nd"]The ghost of Michael Theoklitos wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 2:16 PM:

Interestingly enough, that''s 2 more than Stoke, and 1 more than West Ham over the same period.

How many away wins over a season and a half in this league is acceptable?

Yes and they are really poor sides. And it''s not just the away wins gomt, the home form and results achieved are pretty damn poor too if we are bring frank. I do not see the point whereby do many supporters compare us to the likes of teams around us - Hughton spent 39 million approx, and the idea, certainly in the eyes of Bowkett as stated at the AGM was to take us to the next level. Surely this means being far better than our current position is!

Just how anyone can believe that Hughton, Calderwood and Trollope have improved us and taken us forward thus season us lamentable. The points tally, results, goals for and against column and league position do not lie![/quote]So, back to my question that wasn''t answered....How many away wins in this league over a season and a half is acceptable?I know you''ve said ''it''s not all about that'', and that''s fine, and I''m not totally disagreeing with you on some of those points. But you were the one that used the away wins as a stick to beat Hughton with, so I''m just trying to gauge what the expectations are, or should be in this regard.Personally, I think some fans are expecting too much away from home. To expect that we''re going to turn up to Palace, and they''ll roll over and give is 3 points is simply ludicrous. We grafted out a result. I didn''t see it as that bad.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="City 2nd"]The ghost of Michael Theoklitos wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 2:16 PM:

Interestingly enough, that''s 2 more than Stoke, and 1 more than West Ham over the same period.

How many away wins over a season and a half in this league is acceptable?

Yes and they are really poor sides. And it''s not just the away wins gomt, the home form and results achieved are pretty damn poor too if we are bring frank. I do not see the point whereby do many supporters compare us to the likes of teams around us - Hughton spent 39 million approx, and the idea, certainly in the eyes of Bowkett as stated at the AGM was to take us to the next level. Surely this means being far better than our current position is!

Just how anyone can believe that Hughton, Calderwood and Trollope have improved us and taken us forward thus season us lamentable. The points tally, results, goals for and against column and league position do not lie![/quote]So, back to my question that wasn''t answered....How many away wins in this league over a season and a half is acceptable?I know you''ve said ''it''s not all about that'', and that''s fine, and I''m not totally disagreeing with you on some of those points. But you were the one that used the away wins as a stick to beat Hughton with, so I''m just trying to gauge what the expectations are, or should be in this regard.Personally, I think some fans are expecting too much away from home. To expect that we''re going to turn up to Palace, and they''ll roll over and give is 3 points is simply ludicrous. We grafted out a result. I didn''t see it as that bad.[/quote]

Don''t expect Palace to roll over but lets be honest they are a poor side and having taken the lead like that most decent, established premier league teams would have gone on and beaten them comfortably. However despite the fact that we are now an established premier league team we go into these games as if we are a newly promoted side for whom a point away to anyone is a great result. If we do score then we immediately go on the back foot and try and keep it tight (noticeable that in the minutes following our goal play immediately all switched to our defensive third of the pitch) rather than looking to build on our advantage and give ourselves a bigger cushion.

A draw away from home is never a disaster if that is what we have to settle for or indeed if its against a top side. The problem is though that in most of these games we have settled for a point before a ball has even been kicked and the way we play means we are never likely to get more than a single goal. At half time yesterday it was always going to be interesting to see which team came out fired up and trying to win that game and (whilst they were ultimately not good enough to do it) that team was Palace. we on the other hand came out looking half asleep and unable to string two passes together for 20 minutes.

In response to your query regarding away wins i think its hard to put a precise number on it but I would say that if you take our target for the season as being 45-50 points (not unreasonable I would say) then it is perhaps reasonable to expect between 15-20 of those to come away from home so maybe 4/5 wins and a similar number of draws but then you have to take each game as you find it and take the opportunities when they arise. The way we play means we are highly unlikely to do this because we do not have an opportunist manager who is able to take advantage of situations as an when they arise during games. It is however ironic that this season we have slightly improved away from home so could possibly get near that 15 point mark but at the same time are not putting away the poor sides at home with such regularity.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="City 2nd"]The ghost of Michael Theoklitos wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 2:16 PM:

Interestingly enough, that''s 2 more than Stoke, and 1 more than West Ham over the same period.

How many away wins over a season and a half in this league is acceptable?

Yes and they are really poor sides. And it''s not just the away wins gomt, the home form and results achieved are pretty damn poor too if we are bring frank. I do not see the point whereby do many supporters compare us to the likes of teams around us - Hughton spent 39 million approx, and the idea, certainly in the eyes of Bowkett as stated at the AGM was to take us to the next level. Surely this means being far better than our current position is!

Just how anyone can believe that Hughton, Calderwood and Trollope have improved us and taken us forward thus season us lamentable. The points tally, results, goals for and against column and league position do not lie![/quote]So, back to my question that wasn''t answered....How many away wins in this league over a season and a half is acceptable?I know you''ve said ''it''s not all about that'', and that''s fine, and I''m not totally disagreeing with you on some of those points. But you were the one that used the away wins as a stick to beat Hughton with, so I''m just trying to gauge what the expectations are, or should be in this regard.Personally, I think some fans are expecting too much away from home. To expect that we''re going to turn up to Palace, and they''ll roll over and give is 3 points is simply ludicrous. We grafted out a result. I didn''t see it as that bad.[/quote]

Don''t expect Palace to roll over but lets be honest they are a poor side and having taken the lead like that most decent, established premier league teams would have gone on and beaten them comfortably. However despite the fact that we are now an established premier league team we go into these games as if we are a newly promoted side for whom a point away to anyone is a great result. If we do score then we immediately go on the back foot and try and keep it tight (noticeable that in the minutes following our goal play immediately all switched to our defensive third of the pitch) rather than looking to build on our advantage and give ourselves a bigger cushion.

A draw away from home is never a disaster if that is what we have to settle for or indeed if its against a top side. The problem is though that in most of these games we have settled for a point before a ball has even been kicked and the way we play means we are never likely to get more than a single goal. At half time yesterday it was always going to be interesting to see which team came out fired up and trying to win that game and (whilst they were ultimately not good enough to do it) that team was Palace. we on the other hand came out looking half asleep and unable to string two passes together for 20 minutes.

In response to your query regarding away wins i think its hard to put a precise number on it but I would say that if you take our target for the season as being 45-50 points (not unreasonable I would say) then it is perhaps reasonable to expect between 15-20 of those to come away from home so maybe 4/5 wins and a similar number of draws but then you have to take each game as you find it and take the opportunities when they arise. The way we play means we are highly unlikely to do this because we do not have an opportunist manager who is able to take advantage of situations as an when they arise during games. It is however ironic that this season we have slightly improved away from home so could possibly get near that 15 point mark but at the same time are not putting away the poor sides at home with such regularity.[/quote]Only 10 teams last year achieved 5 or more away wins for the season. Even Everton, who finished 6th, could only manage 4 wins away from home the whole of last season.This year, only 8 teams have achieved more than 3 away wins. We currently have 2.Maybe it''s our expectations away from home that needs changing. When compared against the rest of the league, they''re hardly the disaster many paint them to be.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="City 2nd"]nutty nigel wrote the following post at 2014-01-02 5:17 AM:

Damning for Norwich? Or Palace? Or both?

No side in the current bottom ten have won a home match against Chris Hughton''s Norwich...

And between seasons 2012/13 and 2013/14 to date Norwich city have won FIVE away matches.

You can make it read how you like Nigel, but that stat is abysmal and puts into perspective your post.[/quote]

Lol City 2nd. Bringing last season into the equation just maybe helps make a point which has nothing to do with the OP. But to put it into context last season we were 18th in the away league table while this season we are 14th. So you have actually highlighted an improvement that''s been made this season....