Crap coaching/tactics

[Bill 1,788]

Another game .... and the same mistakes, again.Calderwood''S coaching manual -1. If your player has the ball make no attempt to offer him an option to pass to. Do not move towards him, or in fact move.2. Allow at least one opposing player to remain completely unmarked when the opposition has the ball. The unmarked player should be one of those closest to the man with the ball.3. Do not attempt to run with the ball - until (1) has been implemented4. Running with the ball will undoubtedly lead to you being substituted

I don''t blame the players. Time and time again they look either lost or confused - unsure as to whether to follow their instincts as footballers or to stick rigidly to the game plan.The disturbing thing is it was not just Spurs yesterday, but other teams who have been able to benefit from these failures - Spurs just made it look better.I appreciate what is being done in the way of getting the players to make quick passes, and this has looked good and proved effective when coming out of defense. However that works because there will be a number of options (midfielders) to hit the ball to. Once out of the defence it is not difficult for the opposition to close down a static middle and front two.Making the ball do the work is admirable if ... and a big if, you have players offering options to the man with the ball. And the most important of all you have 10 players capable of such play. We don''t. That is why the likes of Johnson are miss hitting passes, it is not their game. Likewise it is the reason that players like Redmond are miss hitting passes if there is no one to pass to, as with Snodgrass. Yes, he has taken to tumbling over but perhaps some might care to notice that on each occassion there are rarely any City players close by offering him an option.The difference I think fans are seeing is in having Lambert''s approach where he took what he had and encouraged each player to play to his strengths and what we have now whereby players are being moulded into a particular style. Not too dissimilar to the different approaches of Clough and RevieYesterday saw RVW tracking back to get the ball. The question there being whether that is his or Hughton''s choice. Either way we are back to the failings of last season. This bizarre ''zonal'' approach will see us over run time after time. Sadly too many will focus on the defeat being at the hands of a very talented Spurs side, but the same failings were there to see against a newly promoted and for much of the game 10 man Hull.Ruddy''s comments should not be dismissed lightly either. More so, why they were made. Because as before the media have sought out something they know exists. Something has to give soon.

[mrs miggins 0]

I''m not sure this has been mentioned....I''ll check

[mrs miggins 0]

I''ve had a check, and yes, the coaching and tactics have been mentioned a couple of times on this board

[BOO 0]

You really are a knob aren''t you

[mrs miggins 0]

yes

[Bury Yellow 2]

You see Mrs M, City1st gave a superb analysis. It was his opinion and he is of course entitled to it. I happen to agree with him.

You then gave a reply which added nothing to the subject which is a shame

[nutty nigel 7,902]

As I said on countless other threads I don''t see much changing. This has been our approach all last season not just in the games we lost. It''s an approach that Hughton spent the budget to maintain. Any radical change of system could result in us being relegated. Any change of manager could also result in us being relegated. And it''s no good blaming Calderwood so you don''t criticise the manager. If Hughton didn''t agree with Calderwood''s coaching he''d change it.

 

The zonal marking is where we''re at. It was what frustrated at Hull because although we had an extra man we also had the same zones. We had this zonal stuff when Hunter came coaching. We didn''t like it then either.

 

Having said all that we are just 4 games in and there is time to improve. But from what I''ve seen so far we will end up 12th/16th and people will moan all season.

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

I will have to beg to differ there nutty.Things can change and I''m fairly certain they will. More so as I don''t agree with your suggestion "it''s an approach that Hughton spent the budget to maintain." At the moment it is more of a case of Hughton being handed the players, not handed the budget. The former is done via the scouting network.A radical change in the system saw us beat both West Brom and Man City, albeit some will still argue that the real West Brom and Man City players were on some beach and so we wre playing some kind of imposters of something. Even if it suits some to believe in such nonsense the reality is that the style of play we played was '' a radical change'' from the previous dire fare. In fact the transformation in the last part of the game was also a ''radical change'' - something that Hughton admitted was against his tactics !I cannot believe that you are that blind (or believe that the rest of us are that we would swallow) that a change in manager this early would lead to relegation. Any change would have to be for the long term. The club would need to decide if things are so bad that they will not improve and so better it be sooner rather than later.As to Calderwood then yes, it is down to Hughton. Hughton appointed Calderwood and ovesees his work.As to the zonal stuff my point is that we are no longer ''hunting in a pack'', as before. Time and time again I have seen throw ins where our player is struggling to find someone to throw the ball to. Anyone who has played football above park level knows that you have to give your own players options - but we remain static too many of the times. There is minimal running off the ball and minimal support. We cannot rely upon the quality of players we have to make pin point accurate passes to move us out of defence and into the final third, more so when players are not able to move freely to create passing options.Our greatest strength has been the work rate and the sense of togetherness as a squad - the last minute goals, the self belief. I doubt players have been signed who do not have that kind of ethic. RVW talked of buying into that when joining. Sadly Ruddy has talked of other things - something that other players have talked about as well. We are in danger of losing that one thing that pushed us further ahead of what some would see is our level.A good boxer will win, even with one hand tied behind his back - however tying the hand of a moderate boxer will not make him win.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

They''re all good points City 1st but I do think a change in manager at this stage could result in us being relegated. I just look at what has happened to other clubs and the difference between the bottom half of the division is so small that any negative event can be a catastrophe. In fact I would say we did exceedingly well last season not to be taken out by that Ruddy injury and firmly believe had he remained fit we would have been safe long before that WBA game.

 

 

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Interesting OP.

Now, let me take you back to the Everton home game last season.

We were losing and brought on an unknown, newly introduced free spirit forward named Kei Kamara. This player was so hyped up he just played to his instincts, his colleagues threw off the shackles and went for it.

Hughton said his players wanted the win. I called Hughton an accidental hero because he was being lauded when I saw he just got lucky after the players took matters into their own hands with Kei the catalyst.

I got seriously derided for that comment. Who still thinks I was wrong?

[nutty nigel 7,902]

I do because I don''t think Hughton was any sort of hero. The only person who suggested he was a hero was you Rudloph so you could make your point. Even if you''re right and we got 3 points against the managers wishes how did we get the other 41?

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

Well given that Hughton would have been happy with a draw then that approach would have given us 37 of those 41.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

but for every Everton there''s a manchester united. For every WBA there''s an Arsenal. We could go on like this forever.

 

It''s gonna be sh*t again this season. saints v w.ham was abysmal today. I bet their players would have liked to take the shackles off. Hopefully we will improve as the season goes on. Hopefully we will get to 40 points a bit quicker than last season. Hopefully we''ll have anothjer cup run and get 2 rounds further.

 

4 games in. 2 good results 1 bad result and yesterday. Does that really warrant all this?

 

 

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

They''re all good points City 1st but I do think a change in manager at this stage could result in us being relegated. I just look at what has happened to other clubs and the difference between the bottom half of the division is so small that any negative event can be a catastrophe. In fact I would say we did exceedingly well last season not to be taken out by that Ruddy injury and firmly believe had he remained fit we would have been safe long before that WBA game.

 

 

[/quote]Whilst I am not advocating a change I would suggest the sooner the better if it is going to happen. There is virtually the whole of the season left.As to ruddy then yes I agree with his contribution but I would counter with what would happen were Ruddys ''being taken out '' being permanent ie leaving.His comments don''t bode well and should indicate that he is not speaking as a lone voice. We have been here before and as said elsewhere the whole ethos of what is trying to be achieved at Carrow Road could begin to falter if not everyone is singing On The Ball City at the same speed ... and time.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Ruddy was asked loaded questions and answered them the best he could. Did you hear the interview?

 

Was he supposed to say "there is no way that we can improve to ask questions of the opposition"? It''s all very well isolating Ruddy''s replies. People can paint anything they want like that.

 

 

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Ruddy was asked loaded questions and answered them the best he could. Did you hear the interview?

 

Was he supposed to say "there is no way that we can improve to ask questions of the opposition"? It''s all very well isolating Ruddy''s replies. People can paint anything they want like that.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Ruddy has been a professional sportsman, answering questions from journalists as part of his job, for nearly a decade now. If he had wanted to give anodyne answers - or no answers at all - he could have done. It is what normally happens. Instead he made a decision to come out with lengthy and highly critical (although critical of whom and what is not completely clear) comments. This was quite deliberate, nutty.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Nigel,why cannot you and all the other Hughton apologists not get this simple fact into your heads....?

ie that there are many critics on this board who do NOT want to see Hughton sacked, or to get any other manager in. Particularly at this stage. We are not asking for any dramatic knee-jerk reaction of that sort. But what we are demanding is that Hughton and his staff look at a system that is patently not working (at the very least not working as well as it could or should do), and change his behaviour accordingly. In the culinary world, if you keep trying to cook a recipe, and what appears on the plate is inedible, you don''t just keep on using the same ingredients and cooking method regardless. You source new ingredients, mix them differently and try a different cooking method.

To continue the analogy, another highly rated chef (Ruddy) is now suggesting a different recipe, so it''s not just the diners who are critical of the fare on offer now.

[SwindonCanary 457]

There''s not a lot wrong with our coaching/ tactics or the players, but when they come into into training this morning I hope they work on Pressing the opposition, passing the ball and attitude ! It all needs improving before our next match.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Quick question. I wasn''t able to watch the game Saturday or listen to it on the radio so had to rely on Twitter for updates, it seemed pretty obvious after 15/20 minutes that we were being completely overrun in midfield. Was there a change of tactics at all to try and combat that? Was there a reason that we waited until the 64th minute when the game was out of reach before we made a change?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Simples.

"no " on both counts, Mr B

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Nigel,why cannot you and all the other Hughton apologists not get this simple fact into your heads....?

ie that there are many critics on this board who do NOT want to see Hughton sacked, or to get any other manager in. Particularly at this stage. We are not asking for any dramatic knee-jerk reaction of that sort. But what we are demanding is that Hughton and his staff look at a system that is patently not working (at the very least not working as well as it could or should do), and change his behaviour accordingly. In the culinary world, if you keep trying to cook a recipe, and what appears on the plate is inedible, you don''t just keep on using the same ingredients and cooking method regardless. You source new ingredients, mix them differently and try a different cooking method.

To continue the analogy, another highly rated chef (Ruddy) is now suggesting a different recipe, so it''s not just the diners who are critical of the fare on offer now.[/quote]

 

Lovely old job. I''m an apologist now. Is that a step up or down from the other groups I''m regularly placed in?

 

Did you hear the interview reggie?

 

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Quick question. I wasn''t able to watch the game Saturday or listen to it on the radio so had to rely on Twitter for updates, it seemed pretty obvious after 15/20 minutes that we were being completely overrun in midfield. Was there a change of tactics at all to try and combat that? Was there a reason that we waited until the 64th minute when the game was out of reach before we made a change?[/quote]Man for man their midfield was streets ahead of us, short of going out at half time and buying a couple of world class midfielders there really wasn''t much that we could have done.The reason we waited I suspect was that Highton gave them a roasting at half time, then gave them some time to sort it out.Theres no mystery here, we were beaten by a better team.

[Bill 1,788]

No, the real mystery is why folk like you constantly try to twist the fact that the crticism is not about Saturday''s game but the previos six months or so ... one that include losing to a 10 man Hull by playing the same misplaced tactics.But then perhaps it is not a mystery as without that twist the reality might be a bit too painful.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Morty - Kind of agree with you, yes we were beaten by a better team but a big part of this was down to the abject performance of the players. I have now spoken to a a couple of  people who went to the game and the same message comes through loud and clear it is not the defeat that upset them, it was the manner of the defeat. I think the manner of the defeat has contributed to the volume of "negative" posts. I understand a section of the away support vnted the spleens on Saturday, god forbid we put in another performance like that against Villa........

[morty 0]

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Morty - Kind of agree with you, yes we were beaten by a better team but a big part of this was down to the abject performance of the players. I have now spoken to a a couple of  people who went to the game and the same message comes through loud and clear it is not the defeat that upset them, it was the manner of the defeat. I think the manner of the defeat has contributed to the volume of "negative" posts. I understand a section of the away support vnted the spleens on Saturday, god forbid we put in another performance like that against Villa........[/quote]What was the manner of the defeat though?We played badly, and we lost to a better team.I don''t understand anyones need to look at it any further than that. So if players had run about a bit more, and we still lost, that would have been okay?We are going to lose more away games than we get anything out of, that fact isn''t going to change.

[Bill 1,788]

"We played badly, and we lost to a better team.I don''t understand anyones need to look at it any further than that."

dear me

lets hope that isn''t the attitude at Colney today ...... though I suspect it might be

Morty what part of ''we have been playing crap away for months do you not grasp ?10 man Hull were not a better teamnor were Stoke, Wigan, Reading etc in the second half of last season

So stop trying to twist things that the crticism is ONLY about Saturdays game, it is notWhat Saturday''s game did show was that the excuses you apologists have been making have been blown clean out of the water

(even the Ruddy players know we are failing !)

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

-- morty: What was the manner of the defeat though?

management giving up on 49 minutes.

management not even trying anything different during the game. We followed the same sit back and defend on our penalty area for the full 90 minutes.

Tottenham won''t get an easier win all season.

Little Norwich are back.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Morty - The word I heard used more than once was "gutless". Hopefully you will have noted that I am not one of those posters that is getting in a flap about the result, before you come back at me with some barbed comment, two away games and two games where we played badly, two home games and two games we played well, just a coincedence or are we set up differently for away games?........

[morty 0]

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Morty - The word I heard used more than once was "gutless". Hopefully you will have noted that I am not one of those posters that is getting in a flap about the result, before you come back at me with some barbed comment, two away games and two games where we played badly, two home games and two games we played well, just a coincedence or are we set up differently for away games?........[/quote]I wouldn''t disagree with "gutless" for Saturday''s performance actually.If you watched the MOTD highlights of Hull, it was very much spun that although we weren''t at our best, Hull defended for their lives, and we were unlucky not to come away with something.Of course we set up differently for away games, why would you think we don''t?

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

-- morty: If you watched the MOTD highlights of Hull, it was very much spun that although we weren''t at our best, Hull defended for their lives, and we were unlucky not to come away with something.

And if you watched the game, you found we only managed about 4 shots from inside the penalty area and we deserved to lose.