Losing my love for Norwich City FC

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

''kin hell!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought Worthy was apparently the worst. Anybody would be better than him I was told. Not going again until he''s sacked were the constant cries on here. Since then we''ve had grant, Roeder, Gunn, Lambert and Hughton.

 

Hughton is now worse than the lot. people who went through that whole Grant/Roeder/Gunn period enjoyed it far more than the current manager. Despite the fact we finished 11th in the premier league and got to the quarter finals of the league cup. Despite the fact we beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in the process. Despite the fact we have 4 points from our first 4 games this season, they enjoyed Grant/Roeder/Gunn more....

 

OK......

 

 

[/quote]EXACTLY this!some people really are in a bloody fantasy land!we''ve got as far as we are going to go unless some dodgy Arab Arms dealer wants to embezzle his billions of war money into us to turn us into a soulless club with a bunch of glory hunters like Citeh, or Chelski....lets take both of those above... Chelsea, before Abramovic would have been grateful to have even finished in the top half of the premiership... in their ramshackle stadium.... Man City, Believe it or not, were a club not much bigger than Norwich before the billions came in... forever in the shadow o;f their big city neighbours.... they still are!if that money hadn''t come in where does the OP think those clubs would be now??we aren''t going to progress beyond our current level.. so sit back, enjoy the ride, and lets see if we can win a cup in the next 5 years.[/quote]The cold hard face of reality.I imagine this will make uncomfortable reading for some.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

''kin hell!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought Worthy was apparently the worst. Anybody would be better than him I was told. Not going again until he''s sacked were the constant cries on here. Since then we''ve had grant, Roeder, Gunn, Lambert and Hughton.

 

Hughton is now worse than the lot. people who went through that whole Grant/Roeder/Gunn period enjoyed it far more than the current manager. Despite the fact we finished 11th in the premier league and got to the quarter finals of the league cup. Despite the fact we beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in the process. Despite the fact we have 4 points from our first 4 games this season, they enjoyed Grant/Roeder/Gunn more....

 

OK......

 

 

[/quote]EXACTLY this!some people really are in a bloody fantasy land!we''ve got as far as we are going to go unless some dodgy Arab Arms dealer wants to embezzle his billions of war money into us to turn us into a soulless club with a bunch of glory hunters like Citeh, or Chelski....lets take both of those above... Chelsea, before Abramovic would have been grateful to have even finished in the top half of the premiership... in their ramshackle stadium.... Man City, Believe it or not, were a club not much bigger than Norwich before the billions came in... forever in the shadow o;f their big city neighbours.... they still are!if that money hadn''t come in where does the OP think those clubs would be now??we aren''t going to progress beyond our current level.. so sit back, enjoy the ride, and lets see if we can win a cup in the next 5 years.[/quote]The cold hard face of reality.I imagine this will make uncomfortable reading for some.[/quote]agreed Ricardo....Sack hughton and it will be 12 months before the next incumbent is crucified for us finishing 14th and losing in the semi of a cup...Perhaps all the moaners can have a whip round... i''m sure they can raise enough money to turn us into the club they always wanted us to be....

[Jim Smith 2,324]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

''kin hell!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought Worthy was apparently the worst. Anybody would be better than him I was told. Not going again until he''s sacked were the constant cries on here. Since then we''ve had grant, Roeder, Gunn, Lambert and Hughton.

 

Hughton is now worse than the lot. people who went through that whole Grant/Roeder/Gunn period enjoyed it far more than the current manager. Despite the fact we finished 11th in the premier league and got to the quarter finals of the league cup. Despite the fact we beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in the process. Despite the fact we have 4 points from our first 4 games this season, they enjoyed Grant/Roeder/Gunn more....

 

OK......

 

 

[/quote]EXACTLY this!some people really are in a bloody fantasy land!we''ve got as far as we are going to go unless some dodgy Arab Arms dealer wants to embezzle his billions of war money into us to turn us into a soulless club with a bunch of glory hunters like Citeh, or Chelski....lets take both of those above... Chelsea, before Abramovic would have been grateful to have even finished in the top half of the premiership... in their ramshackle stadium.... Man City, Believe it or not, were a club not much bigger than Norwich before the billions came in... forever in the shadow o;f their big city neighbours.... they still are!if that money hadn''t come in where does the OP think those clubs would be now??we aren''t going to progress beyond our current level.. so sit back, enjoy the ride, and lets see if we can win a cup in the next 5 years.[/quote]The cold hard face of reality.I imagine this will make uncomfortable reading for some.[/quote]

May as well not bother with half our away games then. ow many times do some people on here need to have it repeated that most of us CAN ACCEPT LOSING TO BETTER TEAMS. The negativity on here is not related to the fact we lost it is entirely around the way we played and the fact we did not give ourselves a chance. If you take the attitude expressed above that we have come as far as we ever will do so just accept that we are not going to be able to compete with the likes of spurs then what is the point? its profoundly depressing. We as a club should be continually striving for improvement, to do as well as we can and to play as well as we can in every game. of course we won;t win every game and of course we will lose games at this level but that''s not to say that we should unquestionably accept spineless defeats like saturday.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

''kin hell!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought Worthy was apparently the worst. Anybody would be better than him I was told. Not going again until he''s sacked were the constant cries on here. Since then we''ve had grant, Roeder, Gunn, Lambert and Hughton.

 

Hughton is now worse than the lot. people who went through that whole Grant/Roeder/Gunn period enjoyed it far more than the current manager. Despite the fact we finished 11th in the premier league and got to the quarter finals of the league cup. Despite the fact we beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in the process. Despite the fact we have 4 points from our first 4 games this season, they enjoyed Grant/Roeder/Gunn more....

 

OK......

 

 

[/quote]EXACTLY this!some people really are in a bloody fantasy land!we''ve got as far as we are going to go unless some dodgy Arab Arms dealer wants to embezzle his billions of war money into us to turn us into a soulless club with a bunch of glory hunters like Citeh, or Chelski....lets take both of those above... Chelsea, before Abramovic would have been grateful to have even finished in the top half of the premiership... in their ramshackle stadium.... Man City, Believe it or not, were a club not much bigger than Norwich before the billions came in... forever in the shadow o;f their big city neighbours.... they still are!if that money hadn''t come in where does the OP think those clubs would be now??we aren''t going to progress beyond our current level.. so sit back, enjoy the ride, and lets see if we can win a cup in the next 5 years.[/quote]The cold hard face of reality.I imagine this will make uncomfortable reading for some.[/quote]

May as well not bother with half our away games then. ow many times do some people on here need to have it repeated that most of us CAN ACCEPT LOSING TO BETTER TEAMS. The negativity on here is not related to the fact we lost it is entirely around the way we played and the fact we did not give ourselves a chance. If you take the attitude expressed above that we have come as far as we ever will do so just accept that we are not going to be able to compete with the likes of spurs then what is the point? its profoundly depressing. We as a club should be continually striving for improvement, to do as well as we can and to play as well as we can in every game. of course we won;t win every game and of course we will lose games at this level but that''s not to say that we should unquestionably accept spineless defeats like saturday.[/quote]

That is exactly the point Jim. We did lose to a better team, it''s happened before and it will happen again because there will always be better teams than NCFC. That doesn''t mean we should just take it on the chin because by its'' very nature football is a game where the lesser team can sometimes come out on top. We wouldn''t bother to turn up against Man U and Arsenal etc if this wasn''t so. It is my belief that our players are professionals and didn''t just give up and accept a spineless defeat. Sometimes you just get outclassed. If you''ve ever played the game you will know what I mean.Crying about it and calling for heads to roll gets us nowhere. As a famous ex-manager often said," we pick ourselves up and go again".

[Jim Smith 2,324]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

''kin hell!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought Worthy was apparently the worst. Anybody would be better than him I was told. Not going again until he''s sacked were the constant cries on here. Since then we''ve had grant, Roeder, Gunn, Lambert and Hughton.

 

Hughton is now worse than the lot. people who went through that whole Grant/Roeder/Gunn period enjoyed it far more than the current manager. Despite the fact we finished 11th in the premier league and got to the quarter finals of the league cup. Despite the fact we beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in the process. Despite the fact we have 4 points from our first 4 games this season, they enjoyed Grant/Roeder/Gunn more....

 

OK......

 

 

[/quote]EXACTLY this!some people really are in a bloody fantasy land!we''ve got as far as we are going to go unless some dodgy Arab Arms dealer wants to embezzle his billions of war money into us to turn us into a soulless club with a bunch of glory hunters like Citeh, or Chelski....lets take both of those above... Chelsea, before Abramovic would have been grateful to have even finished in the top half of the premiership... in their ramshackle stadium.... Man City, Believe it or not, were a club not much bigger than Norwich before the billions came in... forever in the shadow o;f their big city neighbours.... they still are!if that money hadn''t come in where does the OP think those clubs would be now??we aren''t going to progress beyond our current level.. so sit back, enjoy the ride, and lets see if we can win a cup in the next 5 years.[/quote]The cold hard face of reality.I imagine this will make uncomfortable reading for some.[/quote]

May as well not bother with half our away games then. ow many times do some people on here need to have it repeated that most of us CAN ACCEPT LOSING TO BETTER TEAMS. The negativity on here is not related to the fact we lost it is entirely around the way we played and the fact we did not give ourselves a chance. If you take the attitude expressed above that we have come as far as we ever will do so just accept that we are not going to be able to compete with the likes of spurs then what is the point? its profoundly depressing. We as a club should be continually striving for improvement, to do as well as we can and to play as well as we can in every game. of course we won;t win every game and of course we will lose games at this level but that''s not to say that we should unquestionably accept spineless defeats like saturday.[/quote]

That is exactly the point Jim. We did lose to a better team, it''s happened before and it will happen again because there will always be better teams than NCFC. That doesn''t mean we should just take it on the chin because by its'' very nature football is a game where the lesser team can sometimes come out on top. We wouldn''t bother to turn up against Man U and Arsenal etc if this wasn''t so. It is my belief that our players are professionals and didn''t just give up and accept a spineless defeat. Sometimes you just get outclassed. If you''ve ever played the game you will know what I mean.Crying about it and calling for heads to roll gets us nowhere. As a famous ex-manager often said," we pick ourselves up and go again".[/quote]

But on the one hand Ricardo you say "does not mean we should just take it on the chin" yet on the other hand we are not supposed to moan about it. If this was a one off I would agree with you but its been 15 months of these types of away displays/tactics so at what point is it legitimate to query whether or not something substantial needs to change if we are to to have any real chance of progressing as a club? Hughton will always grind out enough points at home to just about keep the relegation wolf from the door but should we not aspire to more than that? If he gets us enough points to just stay up but win only 1 game away is that good enough and justification to keep him on or should Mcnally and the board actually be taking the manager to task over our away displays at some jucture. i have nothing personal against Hughton and if he can evolve his tactics to be more attacking away I will be delighted but at present i genuinely do not think he sees anything wrong.

I don;t think we "just got outclassed" we actively allowed them to outclass us.

I may have this wrong but my impression from your posts on here is that you predominantly attend home games. is that correct because i do think that fans who solely (or mainly) see us play at Carrow Road often seem to have markedly different views to those who watch us away a lot?

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

''kin hell!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought Worthy was apparently the worst. Anybody would be better than him I was told. Not going again until he''s sacked were the constant cries on here. Since then we''ve had grant, Roeder, Gunn, Lambert and Hughton.

 

Hughton is now worse than the lot. people who went through that whole Grant/Roeder/Gunn period enjoyed it far more than the current manager. Despite the fact we finished 11th in the premier league and got to the quarter finals of the league cup. Despite the fact we beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in the process. Despite the fact we have 4 points from our first 4 games this season, they enjoyed Grant/Roeder/Gunn more....

 

OK......

 

 

[/quote]EXACTLY this!some people really are in a bloody fantasy land!we''ve got as far as we are going to go unless some dodgy Arab Arms dealer wants to embezzle his billions of war money into us to turn us into a soulless club with a bunch of glory hunters like Citeh, or Chelski....lets take both of those above... Chelsea, before Abramovic would have been grateful to have even finished in the top half of the premiership... in their ramshackle stadium.... Man City, Believe it or not, were a club not much bigger than Norwich before the billions came in... forever in the shadow o;f their big city neighbours.... they still are!if that money hadn''t come in where does the OP think those clubs would be now??we aren''t going to progress beyond our current level.. so sit back, enjoy the ride, and lets see if we can win a cup in the next 5 years.[/quote]The cold hard face of reality.I imagine this will make uncomfortable reading for some.[/quote]

May as well not bother with half our away games then. ow many times do some people on here need to have it repeated that most of us CAN ACCEPT LOSING TO BETTER TEAMS. The negativity on here is not related to the fact we lost it is entirely around the way we played and the fact we did not give ourselves a chance. If you take the attitude expressed above that we have come as far as we ever will do so just accept that we are not going to be able to compete with the likes of spurs then what is the point? its profoundly depressing. We as a club should be continually striving for improvement, to do as well as we can and to play as well as we can in every game. of course we won;t win every game and of course we will lose games at this level but that''s not to say that we should unquestionably accept spineless defeats like saturday.[/quote]

That is exactly the point Jim. We did lose to a better team, it''s happened before and it will happen again because there will always be better teams than NCFC. That doesn''t mean we should just take it on the chin because by its'' very nature football is a game where the lesser team can sometimes come out on top. We wouldn''t bother to turn up against Man U and Arsenal etc if this wasn''t so. It is my belief that our players are professionals and didn''t just give up and accept a spineless defeat. Sometimes you just get outclassed. If you''ve ever played the game you will know what I mean.Crying about it and calling for heads to roll gets us nowhere. As a famous ex-manager often said," we pick ourselves up and go again".[/quote]

But on the one hand Ricardo you say "does not mean we should just take it on the chin" yet on the other hand we are not supposed to moan about it. If this was a one off I would agree with you but its been 15 months of these types of away displays/tactics so at what point is it legitimate to query whether or not something substantial needs to change if we are to to have any real chance of progressing as a club? Hughton will always grind out enough points at home to just about keep the relegation wolf from the door but should we not aspire to more than that? If he gets us enough points to just stay up but win only 1 game away is that good enough and justification to keep him on or should Mcnally and the board actually be taking the manager to task over our away displays at some jucture. i have nothing personal against Hughton and if he can evolve his tactics to be more attacking away I will be delighted but at present i genuinely do not think he sees anything wrong.

I don;t think we "just got outclassed" we actively allowed them to outclass us.

I may have this wrong but my impression from your posts on here is that you predominantly attend home games. is that correct because i do think that fans who solely (or mainly) see us play at Carrow Road often seem to have markedly different views to those who watch us away a lot?[/quote]Yes, I am no longer able to go to away games these days however I always watch them on stream. Not like being there I know, but needs must.However, attending away games and expecting to see an expansive performance will always be a thankless task. As I remarked on another thread only 4 teams in the whole history of the Premier league have won more games away than they''ve lost. Perhaps you''ve been spoiled by our away exploits in League 1 and the Championship.

[Jim Smith 2,324]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

''kin hell!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I thought Worthy was apparently the worst. Anybody would be better than him I was told. Not going again until he''s sacked were the constant cries on here. Since then we''ve had grant, Roeder, Gunn, Lambert and Hughton.

 

Hughton is now worse than the lot. people who went through that whole Grant/Roeder/Gunn period enjoyed it far more than the current manager. Despite the fact we finished 11th in the premier league and got to the quarter finals of the league cup. Despite the fact we beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in the process. Despite the fact we have 4 points from our first 4 games this season, they enjoyed Grant/Roeder/Gunn more....

 

OK......

 

 

[/quote]EXACTLY this!some people really are in a bloody fantasy land!we''ve got as far as we are going to go unless some dodgy Arab Arms dealer wants to embezzle his billions of war money into us to turn us into a soulless club with a bunch of glory hunters like Citeh, or Chelski....lets take both of those above... Chelsea, before Abramovic would have been grateful to have even finished in the top half of the premiership... in their ramshackle stadium.... Man City, Believe it or not, were a club not much bigger than Norwich before the billions came in... forever in the shadow o;f their big city neighbours.... they still are!if that money hadn''t come in where does the OP think those clubs would be now??we aren''t going to progress beyond our current level.. so sit back, enjoy the ride, and lets see if we can win a cup in the next 5 years.[/quote]The cold hard face of reality.I imagine this will make uncomfortable reading for some.[/quote]

May as well not bother with half our away games then. ow many times do some people on here need to have it repeated that most of us CAN ACCEPT LOSING TO BETTER TEAMS. The negativity on here is not related to the fact we lost it is entirely around the way we played and the fact we did not give ourselves a chance. If you take the attitude expressed above that we have come as far as we ever will do so just accept that we are not going to be able to compete with the likes of spurs then what is the point? its profoundly depressing. We as a club should be continually striving for improvement, to do as well as we can and to play as well as we can in every game. of course we won;t win every game and of course we will lose games at this level but that''s not to say that we should unquestionably accept spineless defeats like saturday.[/quote]

That is exactly the point Jim. We did lose to a better team, it''s happened before and it will happen again because there will always be better teams than NCFC. That doesn''t mean we should just take it on the chin because by its'' very nature football is a game where the lesser team can sometimes come out on top. We wouldn''t bother to turn up against Man U and Arsenal etc if this wasn''t so. It is my belief that our players are professionals and didn''t just give up and accept a spineless defeat. Sometimes you just get outclassed. If you''ve ever played the game you will know what I mean.Crying about it and calling for heads to roll gets us nowhere. As a famous ex-manager often said," we pick ourselves up and go again".[/quote]

But on the one hand Ricardo you say "does not mean we should just take it on the chin" yet on the other hand we are not supposed to moan about it. If this was a one off I would agree with you but its been 15 months of these types of away displays/tactics so at what point is it legitimate to query whether or not something substantial needs to change if we are to to have any real chance of progressing as a club? Hughton will always grind out enough points at home to just about keep the relegation wolf from the door but should we not aspire to more than that? If he gets us enough points to just stay up but win only 1 game away is that good enough and justification to keep him on or should Mcnally and the board actually be taking the manager to task over our away displays at some jucture. i have nothing personal against Hughton and if he can evolve his tactics to be more attacking away I will be delighted but at present i genuinely do not think he sees anything wrong.

I don;t think we "just got outclassed" we actively allowed them to outclass us.

I may have this wrong but my impression from your posts on here is that you predominantly attend home games. is that correct because i do think that fans who solely (or mainly) see us play at Carrow Road often seem to have markedly different views to those who watch us away a lot?[/quote]Yes, I am no longer able to go to away games these days however I always watch them on stream. Not like being there I know, but needs must.However, attending away games and expecting to see an expansive performance will always be a thankless task. As I remarked on another thread only 4 teams in the whole history of the Premier league have won more games away than they''ve lost. Perhaps you''ve been spoiled by our away exploits in League 1 and the Championship.[/quote]

Perhaps but I genuinely don;t expect us to beat the top sides away or play cavalier football. its really the manner of our displays that''s my main gripe.

[ricardo 7,395]

Your comments about away games made me curious Jim, so I''ve just had a look at our all time away win average in the Premier league compared with what I would call comparable clubsNorwich        20.45%W Ham         21.5%Fulham         15.2%Sundrlnd       17.8%Southmptn    17.1%WBA            16.3%Stoke           16.4%Over all it doesn''t seem we have a lot to complain about when you look at it long term. Some will find it quite surprising.

[Jim Smith 2,324]

Interesting indeed although I suspect our average is kept healthy due to the first season of the premier league when we won away regularly. In our recent spell:

Under Hughton its 9.5%.

Under Lambert was 26.3%

Under Worthy in our previous spell it was of course 0%.

[snake-eyes 13]

Nice stat Ricardo, but this one I find more interesting:

 

2004/5  P19 W0 D5 L12 - 5pts

2011/12 P19 W5 D5 L9 - 20pts

2012/13 P19 W2 D7 L10 - 13pts (1 win was dead rubber last game of season)

 

2004/5 - 0% win

2011/12 - 26.3% win

2012/13 - 10.5% win

 

Just adding some more stats to the debate.

 

Snake

[ncfcstar 292]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]

Nice stat Ricardo, but this one I find more interesting:

 

2004/5  P19 W0 D5 L12 - 5pts

2011/12 P19 W5 D5 L9 - 20pts

2012/13 P19 W2 D7 L10 - 13pts (1 win was dead rubber last game of season)

 

2004/5 - 0% win

2011/12 - 26.3% win

2012/13 - 10.5% win

 

Just adding some more stats to the debate.

 

Snake

[/quote]Dear me, it''s still a win, away at the team which were Champions the previous season.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Interesting indeed although I suspect our average is kept healthy due to the first season of the premier league when we won away regularly. In our recent spell:

Under Hughton its 9.5%.

Under Lambert was 26.3%

Under Worthy in our previous spell it was of course 0%.[/quote]

But as you well know Jim, the smaller the data base the less reliance you can place on your conclusion. My point was that overall we have surprisingly little to complain about.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]

Nice stat Ricardo, but this one I find more interesting:

 

2004/5  P19 W0 D5 L12 - 5pts

2011/12 P19 W5 D5 L9 - 20pts

2012/13 P19 W2 D7 L10 - 13pts (1 win was dead rubber last game of season)

 

2004/5 - 0% win

2011/12 - 26.3% win

2012/13 - 10.5% win

 

Just adding some more stats to the debate.

 

Snake

[/quote]Now, now SE, I''ve looked all through Statto Index and can find no mention of dead rubbers.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

Hard to know where to start with this thread.  Maybe I should explain why I picked my user name ... the "It''s Character Forming" is a GSV in one of Iain Bank''s culture novels but also sums up my attitude to following Norwich, mainly at away games.

 

I have watched some unbelievable dross following City for nearly 20 years.  I remember watching us getting stuffed by the scum on the beamback at CR.  I remember getting thrashed in Div 1 by Port Vale, and Peschisolido destroying us when he was at WBA.  Or Bolton coming to us when they were in the Champ (or was it Div 1 - anyway when they yo-yo''d between 1st and 2nd tier for a bit) and won it with a record number of goals, and simply looked like a class above us.  Or losing at Grimsby in the cup when Mike Milligan conceded a penalty.

 

I also remember plenty of dire games in the 2nd tier when both City and the opposition struggled to play any decent football at all.

 

Against this the 3 years under Lambert were a unique and exhilarating period, especially going mainly to away games.  It just doesn''t get any better.  In L1, once he got the team going we were a class above almost all the teams we played and could realistically aim to win every game, so you got a bit of a feeling for what it''s like to be a ManU fan (without getting spoilt).  In the Champ again once we got going it was a phenomenal run to end up in 2nd spot.  And our first year in the Prem he continued with a swashbuckling approach, it brought great rewards away from hom.  But could it have continued ?  I suspect not, in the Prem you''re up against the best teams and when you play a style that has weaknesses, they will learn to take advantage, so I think it is no coincidence that Lambert decided to jump ship before he could be found out with us.

 

Now last year was in many ways a return to a more traditional away game feel for City with relatively little success and an approach of keeping it tight etc.  Personally I think it went too far and we''d do better by pressing the other side more and taking a bit more of an attacking approach away from home, without leaving ourselves open as much as Lambert''s teams do.  But that''s my opinion.  And we did get wins (mainly at home, obviously) over quite a few of the top teams.  Anyone remember Bryan Gunn''s testimonial when ManU sent a team with plenty of non-first-team players who still comfortably beat us ?  At least we can play them now and be competitive, home or away.

 

People need to remember we''re playing in the top league and have managed two mid-table finishes !  On Saturday we saw moments of great skill, unfortunately almost all from the other side, but we were seeing a much better class of player than you''d get in the 2nd tier.  Would you really rather be fighting to get out of the Champ, or fighting to get a decent league position in the Prem ?  Just remember we had plenty of seasons in Div 1/the Champ when we weren''t even in the running for a playoff spot !

 

I was very disappointed on Saturday, not so much with losing 2-0 at Spurs (my prediction was "my head says they''ll beat us by 2 goals") but our ineffectual approach which was much worse IMO than the way we approached many games last season.  But I''ll be back when we go to Stoke and hope we give it more of a go.  I''ll be going to Watford too but obviously that''s different.

 

As for falling out of love with City from this - well, I just can''t relate to anyone who posts this.  Saturday was bad but at least we got beat by one of the better teams in the Prem !  There have been plenty of worse times to be a City fan, frankly for most of our history it has been tougher !

[snake-eyes 13]

Yes it is a win, but in all fairness, do you think, we and Man City would have played that way had the game Meant something, especially to Man City?

 

With all due respect we did play well, but Man City were not really up for the fight and we saw a chance of taking a scalp with the pressure of relegation off our shoulders.

 

Even the most optimistic part of me tells me had we needed something from the game and so had Man City the result would not have been so positive.

 

Be honest it was more like an end of season Friendly than a hard faught league match.

 

Even so the stats do show a bit of a disparancy don''t they?

 

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]

Yes it is a win, but in all fairness, do you think, we and Man City would have played that way had the game Meant something, especially to Man City?

With all due respect we did play well, but Man City were not really up for the fight and we saw a chance of taking a scalp with the pressure of relegation off our shoulders.

Even the most optimistic part of me tells me had we needed something from the game and so had Man City the result would not have been so positive.

Be honest it was more like an end of season Friendly than a hard faught league match.

Even so the stats do show a bit of a disparancy don''t they?

[/quote]

 

But that''s the way football goes - at the end of the season you get teams with nothing to play for, you get teams slow to start at the beginning, sometimes you play a team at the peak of their form, another team have just gone into a slump.  It happens every season so our win against Man C is just as valid as the wins that make up the stats for the year before.  I don''t think Lambert could have replicated that sort of away win percentage had he stayed with us because we''d have been found out if we carried on playing that way.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Its Character Forming"]

Hard to know where to start with this thread.  Maybe I should explain why I picked my user name ... the "It''s Character Forming" is a GSV in one of Iain Bank''s culture novels but also sums up my attitude to following Norwich, mainly at away games.

 

I have watched some unbelievable dross following City for nearly 20 years.  I remember watching us getting stuffed by the scum on the beamback at CR.  I remember getting thrashed in Div 1 by Port Vale, and Peschisolido destroying us when he was at WBA.  Or Bolton coming to us when they were in the Champ (or was it Div 1 - anyway when they yo-yo''d between 1st and 2nd tier for a bit) and won it with a record number of goals, and simply looked like a class above us.  Or losing at Grimsby in the cup when Mike Milligan conceded a penalty.

 

I also remember plenty of dire games in the 2nd tier when both City and the opposition struggled to play any decent football at all.

 

Against this the 3 years under Lambert were a unique and exhilarating period, especially going mainly to away games.  It just doesn''t get any better.  In L1, once he got the team going we were a class above almost all the teams we played and could realistically aim to win every game, so you got a bit of a feeling for what it''s like to be a ManU fan (without getting spoilt).  In the Champ again once we got going it was a phenomenal run to end up in 2nd spot.  And our first year in the Prem he continued with a swashbuckling approach, it brought great rewards away from hom.  But could it have continued ?  I suspect not, in the Prem you''re up against the best teams and when you play a style that has weaknesses, they will learn to take advantage, so I think it is no coincidence that Lambert decided to jump ship before he could be found out with us.

 

Now last year was in many ways a return to a more traditional away game feel for City with relatively little success and an approach of keeping it tight etc.  Personally I think it went too far and we''d do better by pressing the other side more and taking a bit more of an attacking approach away from home, without leaving ourselves open as much as Lambert''s teams do.  But that''s my opinion.  And we did get wins (mainly at home, obviously) over quite a few of the top teams.  Anyone remember Bryan Gunn''s testimonial when ManU sent a team with plenty of non-first-team players who still comfortably beat us ?  At least we can play them now and be competitive, home or away.

 

People need to remember we''re playing in the top league and have managed two mid-table finishes !  On Saturday we saw moments of great skill, unfortunately almost all from the other side, but we were seeing a much better class of player than you''d get in the 2nd tier.  Would you really rather be fighting to get out of the Champ, or fighting to get a decent league position in the Prem ?  Just remember we had plenty of seasons in Div 1/the Champ when we weren''t even in the running for a playoff spot !

 

I was very disappointed on Saturday, not so much with losing 2-0 at Spurs (my prediction was "my head says they''ll beat us by 2 goals") but our ineffectual approach which was much worse IMO than the way we approached many games last season.  But I''ll be back when we go to Stoke and hope we give it more of a go.  I''ll be going to Watford too but obviously that''s different.

 

As for falling out of love with City from this - well, I just can''t relate to anyone who posts this.  Saturday was bad but at least we got beat by one of the better teams in the Prem !  There have been plenty of worse times to be a City fan, frankly for most of our history it has been tougher !

[/quote]Yes ICF, being a culture novel fan I had twigged your user name.You never thought of using Funny it Worked Last Time or A Series of Unlikely Explanations did you?I think I would have chosen Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality[;)]

[Fraz 2]

I would say I''m not losing my love for NCFC, just the sheen of the PL is starting to ware thin. The harsh reality of the premier league is that clubs like ourselves are just looking to stay in the league, gone are the days (like in 1992-3) when we can put up a title challenge and like 2/3 of the teams in it, we will lose more games that we will win.

Best I can look forward to is on game by game basis, hoping we can beat one of the big guns, the joy at the final whistle.

the only benefit of the PL is the financial side that we may be able to put a half decent team together and possible win one of the cups.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

Maybe I should have gone for "A Fine Disregard for Awkward Facts"or "So Much for Subtlety"...

[snake-eyes 13]

I guess we will never know, the thing is though 2 wins is not really acceptable in my book. I truly believe we can do better and a change, although not dramatic, in ethos would see us more competitive and improve on our record of last year. Turn 2 draws into wins and 2 into defeats but trying for the win would have gained us 2 extra points? Just a thought.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

How then do you explain Cardiff?  Man City thought it was a preseason friendly?

 

We played well just as Cardiff did and we both caught Man City out of sorts just as Spurs caught us out of sorts on Saturday.   It is as football goes.  Quite why there is a need to undermine our performance at City eludes me.  We fought and we won.  If a better team wasn''t up for it, how is it our fault?

[crabbycanary 2]

If we had maintained the ''Lambert swashbuckling style'' away from home, then do people seriously think we would finish in the top half again? Imo, no.

He will (has?) be(en) found out, and no clean sheets in 26 (?) games proves life wouldn''t be stress free. If that''s what you want, then fair play. I enjoyed the Prem season under PL, but could also see that it wasn''t good for the Club overall.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]

I guess we will never know, the thing is though 2 wins is not really acceptable in my book. I truly believe we can do better and a change, although not dramatic, in ethos would see us more competitive and improve on our record of last year. Turn 2 draws into wins and 2 into defeats but trying for the win would have gained us 2 extra points? Just a thought.

[/quote]

Personally I agree a more aggressive approach when we haven''t got the ball away from home would improve our results.  Take Sunderland away when we were the better team and would probably have got the win if it hadn''t been for some bad ref decisions (compared to a totally lacklustre away performance under Lambert, incidentally).  Or Arsenal away when we had a real go at them and could easily have won except for the ref again.

 

But any season where we end up mid-table in the Prem is "acceptable" as far as I''m concerned.  Since relegation in 1995 it has happened exactly twice... Although you''d find that hard to believe from reading this board at the moment.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Its Character Forming"][quote user="snake-eyes"]

I guess we will never know, the thing is though 2 wins is not really acceptable in my book. I truly believe we can do better and a change, although not dramatic, in ethos would see us more competitive and improve on our record of last year. Turn 2 draws into wins and 2 into defeats but trying for the win would have gained us 2 extra points? Just a thought.

[/quote]

Personally I agree a more aggressive approach when we haven''t got the ball away from home would improve our results.  Take Sunderland away when we were the better team and would probably have got the win if it hadn''t been for some bad ref decisions (compared to a totally lacklustre away performance under Lambert, incidentally).  Or Arsenal away when we had a real go at them and could easily have won except for the ref again.

 

But any season where we end up mid-table in the Prem is "acceptable" as far as I''m concerned.  Since relegation in 1995 it has happened exactly twice... Although you''d find that hard to believe from reading this board at the moment.

[/quote]A promotion season in the Championship is always going to be more exciting than a hard grind to maintain Premiership status. The novelty of playing the big boys wears off after a couple of seasons and then we start to get the first rumblings of discontent. It''s hard to get through to some people the uncomfortable fact that we are now competing at somewhere near the top of any reasonable expectation of our true status in the game. Yes we all hope to kick on a bit further but there are plenty of other clubs in the Championship who feel they have just as much right to take our place if we falter.Football fortunes go up and down and there is no reason to believe that we will be immune from any down. In fact it''s inevitable and given time we will be back in the Championship and the cycle will start all over again.

[BOO 0]

Ricardo wrote

". It''s hard to get through to some people the uncomfortable fact that we are now competing at somewhere near the top of any reasonable expectation of our true status in the game. Yes we all hope to kick on a bit further but there are plenty of other clubs in the Championship who feel they have just as much right to take our place if we falter.

Football fortunes go up and down and there is no reason to believe that we will be immune from any down. In fact it''s inevitable and given time we will be back in the Championship and the cycle will start all over again."

What a depressing Little Norwich post from someone who I respect and whose posts I read with interest.

Founder club of the Premier League with a potential catchment of the whole of East Anglia/ Cambridge and outer North London.

A big club representing a big region in the UK, that''s our potential destiny to be at the top of English football!

Your vision is blinkered and resolved to mediocrity, any club of our size has the potential to be a top EPL side, certainly competing for a European spot.

The way you dismiss our potential makes me feel sick.

[Warren Hill 0]

Good post Vanwink, you illustrate Ricardo''s point beautifully.

[BOO 0]

And you illustrate " little old norwich" my friend.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Vanwink"]Ricardo wrote

". It''s hard to get through to some people the uncomfortable fact that we are now competing at somewhere near the top of any reasonable expectation of our true status in the game. Yes we all hope to kick on a bit further but there are plenty of other clubs in the Championship who feel they have just as much right to take our place if we falter.

Football fortunes go up and down and there is no reason to believe that we will be immune from any down. In fact it''s inevitable and given time we will be back in the Championship and the cycle will start all over again."

What a depressing Little Norwich post from someone who I respect and whose posts I read with interest.

Founder club of the Premier League with a potential catchment of the whole of East Anglia/ Cambridge and outer North London.

A big club representing a big region in the UK, that''s our potential destiny to be at the top of English football!

Your vision is blinkered and resolved to mediocrity, any club of our size has the potential to be a top EPL side, certainly competing for a European spot.

The way you dismiss our potential makes me feel sick.[/quote]Better get used to it if you are going to be a NCFC fan long term. Very few clubs are immune to a trip to the Championship and we aren''t one of them. I''ve seen 8 promotions and 6 relegation''s and it would be nothing short of wishful thinking to propose that there won''t be anymore somewhere down the line.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,420]

Founder members of the Premier League.

That always make me cringe.

Makes it sound like we were part of a select group of clubs plotting and scheming to form a new elite division.

Truth of the matter is we just he happened to be in the right place at the right time.

I don''t mean that to sound anti-Norwich or anything.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="Vanwink"]And you illustrate " little old norwich" my friend.[/quote]A bit of perspective would help but that will only come with time and experience Winky.