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Syteanric

the decline of a hero... who's to blame?

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[quote user="General Norwich"]Change of formation, new manager, whatever, Holt has lost his edge. Last season he overachieved as did the rest of the squad. This season he seems to have lost his hunger and does not look sharp or up for it. Of course he must be remembered for what he has achieved for the club, but your only as good as your last game. Time to cash in at the end of this season and bring in some PL quality[/quote]

Couldnt agree more  [:)]

Good thread Jas.

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beat me to it drurys - who is really to blame

Old father Time for me (and no I dont mean Til, or City 1st or wiz or etc etc etc)

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]

I used to adore Holt but now I don''t. He was the hearbeat of our team but now seems to not be too bothered. He''s always carried some weight but usually by mid season he''s shifted it, doesn''t look like it this year. He''s become lazy and demotivated. When was the last time you saw him knock a Vidic or Terry to the ground and fire the crowd up? When was the last time he actually held the ball up and brought others into play instead of falling over?

I''m sorry goals scored, or lack of, are not my concern with Holt. It''s the other stuff he used to do that I loved and made us successfull. He was our non league tyre fitter who was privillged to share the field with super stars but never  affraid of them. His passion and commitment made up for a lack of abillity and equaled him up to the superstars. That passion does not look there anymore and I fear he may well be starting to have a negative effect on the team.

Holt just isn''t Holt anymore...... 

[/quote]

 

But Lincoln is the same old Lincoln

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So our captain had a bit of an off day did he ? it happens. He still managed to win a penalty in the 91st minute not to mention the penalty that should have been given in the first half.  How many players in the team were more effective ? Still the first name on the team sheet for me and if he had dispatched that penalty nobody would be whinging on.

Like most people Im not keen on our one up front formation especially at home but generally when Holt is up front on his own it is up to the midfielders to chip in with goals as he is working very hard along the line. I find Wes being reluctant to shoot more often much more frustrating than anything Grant does. He is just 100% Legend.

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I still think he can be a handful but next season more often coming from the bench rather than starting. He has lost a yard of pace[ never his strongest attribute] since last year and the lone striker role has blunted his confidence in front of goal

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I cant understand why Hughton asked Holt to play a different role this year! He inherited a 17 goal forward, he should play to his strengths and should have tried to maintain that!Its like the next United manager coming in and asking RVP to completely change what he is doing!

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I would disagree that his hero status has declined. However, I would be willing to admit that he has been less sharp this season and hasn''t had the same threat in front of goal as we are used to.

I don''t think there is one particular reason, probably a combination of a few things. Two more I would possibly chuck into the ring that I haven''t seen yet are the luck/confidence/momentum cycle and Calderwood.

Successive promotions and everything seemingly going right for him, confidence at a high, I think that can make your own luck to some extent and Holt benefitted from that last season.

Calderwood and Holt had a rather large bust up at Forest and whilst I don''t believe Calderwood''s presence here alone has lessened Holt''s effect, I do think it could just add to the things that have got his head slightly elsewhere.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]I cant understand why Hughton asked Holt to play a different role this year! He inherited a 17 goal forward, he should play to his strengths and should have tried to maintain that!Its like the next United manager coming in and asking RVP to completely change what he is doing!

[/quote]

Holt has adapted his play to suit the team set up under Hughton and has put in some tremendous performances this season.  The team are playing for the future, not just to have a go.   Hughton has  altered things so that we can compete with every team we play.    That is how we beat Arsenal and MU.   We compete every game.   Liverpool have spoiled the party a bit, but on the whole we have competed well against nearly every team whether they are top or bottom.  

If we carried on playing like we did last season we would be in the bottom three.    No defence and relying on willpower and guts.  Admirable, may be, but  credit where credit is due.   We are nine points clear of the drop zone.    Doesn''t that show that Holt has played his part in creating a successful scenario?

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I agree with what you say and add to the fact that most players come back off summer break very close to their playing weight but Holt cant be bothered and comes back at least 3 stone overweight.  Unforgiveable in my mind.  Even Tevez, despite the problems he has had, came back a stone lighter after this summer break.  That is commitment.   The other thing that prevents Holty scoring is the fact that he spends most of the time out on the wing, even when he is the lone striker.  If the manger is going to continue to play him there he might as well leave out Pilkington and put Bechio and Kamara in the centre as proper strikers.  Holt does not like hitting the mark these days , even from the penalty spot.

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[quote user="Ha ya got a loight boy"][quote user="can u sit down please"]I cant understand why Hughton asked Holt to play a different role this year! He inherited a 17 goal forward, he should play to his strengths and should have tried to maintain that!Its like the next United manager coming in and asking RVP to completely change what he is doing!

[/quote]

Holt has adapted his play to suit the team set up under Hughton and has put in some tremendous performances this season.  The team are playing for the future, not just to have a go.   Hughton has  altered things so that we can compete with every team we play.    That is how we beat Arsenal and MU.   We compete every game.   Liverpool have spoiled the party a bit, but on the whole we have competed well against nearly every team whether they are top or bottom.  

If we carried on playing like we did last season we would be in the bottom three.    No defence and relying on willpower and guts.  Admirable, may be, but  credit where credit is due.   We are nine points clear of the drop zone.    Doesn''t that show that Holt has played his part in creating a successful scenario?

[/quote]I agree with this in part but as a goalscorer Holt is no different to any other player....... he enjoys the adoration that goalscoring brings.Under the present regime he''s being asked to play a different role and is finding it much harder to find the net. This must affect him and I''m sure it does. It''s probably because of this he just doesn''t seem the same player this season and I''ll be surprised if he''s still here in August.

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His hungers gone?

He doesn''t care anymore?

Cash in on him now?

Funny how we didn''t hear this, for example, post Everton at home.

Don''t mean to cause offense but the gross over-reaction on this board (and on twitter today) demonstrates how many dim-witted fans we actually have.

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I''m not sure that''s actually true though Hogesar. I think his goals ratio this season has been a concern far before he missed one penalty this weekend. Most of this season he hasn''t been half the player he was last season.

Normally I would agree that there are plenty on this board who are quite over-reaction prone, but on this one I don''t think the general discussion of Holt''s lack of form is an over-reaction. One or two are over-reacting, yes, but mostly it is a sensible/slightly worried debate about why our talisman for the past three seasons hasn''t been very good this time round.

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[quote user="Aggy"]I''m not sure that''s actually true though Hogesar. I think his goals ratio this season has been a concern far before he missed one penalty this weekend. Most of this season he hasn''t been half the player he was last season.

Normally I would agree that there are plenty on this board who are quite over-reaction prone, but on this one I don''t think the general discussion of Holt''s lack of form is an over-reaction. One or two are over-reacting, yes, but mostly it is a sensible/slightly worried debate about why our talisman for the past three seasons hasn''t been very good this time round.[/quote]Fair points which i have to say to an extent i agree with.His goals ratio is undoubtedly poor, i can''t deny that and nor would i try to - so i agree with you there. However i don''t think for most of the season he''s been half the player - he''s played a different role sometimes very effectively and sometimes ineffectively but i certainly don''t think he''s been `half the player` so to speak.I''ll also agree that not everyone is over-reacting, certainly Jas'' original post was well thought out and came across well. But over the course of the season Holt''s got a fair amount of unwarranted stick, look at twitter today - our own fans having a pop at a player whos been integral in getting us here. I think he commands a little more respect than that - the same goes to the dimwits on here who''ve called him a money-grabbing bastard, fat tyre fitter, lazy overweight amateur who we should flog at any available moment.Sad thing is, i''m not making those comments up!

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Holt is past his best.  He is getting on and this is the last season he can even try and compete at the top level.  Give him a big send off and lets move on with two new strikers in the summer.

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To get the best out of Holt he needs to play as part of a pair underlined by his late winner against Everton. He had a poor game against Southampton but he was not on his own and i have seen many worse penalties go into the net. That said he is a year older not seemingly as fit and has lost a yard of pace. If he wants to stay here next season he will have a part to play but probably more as an impact player coming off the bench and thereafter probably moving down the leagues. this really is noones fault a combination of father time and evolution of the team. He will loom large in our history books and no other single player has made a bigger contribution to the clubs recent evolution

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[quote user="kellybrook"]Holt is past his best.  He is getting on and this is the last season he can even try and compete at the top level.  Give him a big send off and lets move on with two new strikers in the summer.
[/quote]

 

[IMG]http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/you-fool-038.gif[/IMG]

 

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