We still need 6 new players

[Monty13 2,251]

Unless any of us know what CH is thinking its quite hard to determine what we need at the back. Did he sign Whittaker as cover across the back or is he the replacement for Naughton? If so I don''t think you can say he is not good enough to replace him until we see him play. Is Martin seen as a CB now or is he the first choice RB? We definitely need a LB and I personally think Drury could have filled that role but you would suspect that he was only offered another year where as he has got 2 and a nice signing on bonus at Leeds, not bad at 33.

Personally I feel we could do with the creative but strong defensive midfielder everyone''s talking about but unless someone knows how to get him for under 5 mil and on our wages, we may as well stick with what we have. Although another winger would be good, I don''t think its essential.

I do agree we need another striker, I think both Moro and Holt will score goals and I would really like to see them play together but we do need someone else, Wilbs has gone and Jackson although he worked very hard and played well didn''t hit the form of the previous seasons end. I think Vaughan could be great if he stays fit but that''s a gamble on past record.

Plug the hole at the left back berth and another good quality striking option. After that spend the money wherever he likes but importantly only if it improves on what we already have, otherwise what is the point? I also think he might see how the current squad does (Plus new summer additions) and save a fair whack to spend on where he feels its necessary in Jan. This is going to be a much tougher season and he may need to "give the lads a hand" come the half way point.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Monty13"]Unless any of us know what CH is thinking its quite hard to determine what we need at the back. Did he sign Whittaker as cover across the back or is he the replacement for Naughton? If so I don''t think you can say he is not good enough to replace him until we see him play. Is Martin seen as a CB now or is he the first choice RB? We definitely need a LB and I personally think Drury could have filled that role but you would suspect that he was only offered another year where as he has got 2 and a nice signing on bonus at Leeds, not bad at 33.

Personally I feel we could do with the creative but strong defensive midfielder everyone''s talking about but unless someone knows how to get him for under 5 mil and on our wages, we may as well stick with what we have. Although another winger would be good, I don''t think its essential.

I do agree we need another striker, I think both Moro and Holt will score goals and I would really like to see them play together but we do need someone else, Wilbs has gone and Jackson although he worked very hard and played well didn''t hit the form of the previous seasons end. I think Vaughan could be great if he stays fit but that''s a gamble on past record.

Plug the hole at the left back berth and another good quality striking option. After that spend the money wherever he likes but importantly only if it improves on what we already have, otherwise what is the point? I also think he might see how the current squad does (Plus new summer additions) and save a fair whack to spend on where he feels its necessary in Jan. This is going to be a much tougher season and he may need to "give the lads a hand" come the half way point.[/quote]There are only 38 games in a Premier League season and so each game is very important. Therefore there isn''t much point in waiting until January as we might be struggling by then and so a lot harder and more expensive to attract new players.

[Lets be aving you! 0]

Can''t see that the money is there for these 6 players.

 

Going rates for a decent championship-level defender seems to be about 4 million (what Forest reportedly wanted for Gunter; Villa have just signed a Sheff U full back for 3 million, and they were League 1 last season). Curtis Davies valued at about 4-5 million.

 

A good Champs-level striker would be much more (Rodriguez reportedly 7 million).

 

A left back, centre back and striker of this standard would therefore pretty much cost 15 million, not including wages or anything left over for January. Getting rid of peripheral squad players (C. Martin, Barnett, etc.) would likely not raise much. How are the 6 players in the thread title to be funded?

[priceyrice 123]

This is a reply to let''s be avin youOk disagree with this big time and this is why.We have been told by Bowkett (another dinner) that the transfer fund would be 10M more than last season, lets say that is around £25M, inc wages.Currently we have signed two players and for arguments sake lets say for 20K a week (up there with our top earners) and a combined 1M for signing on fees. That is around £3M in total, leaving us with a budget of £22MA good championship defender will cost between 2-4M, Davies the upper end of that, someone like Gunter the lower end. Any more on a championship defender is just stupid. So we could sign 2 more defenders for £6M + 2M in wages = 8M, leaving us with £14MWinger - going by the price of Pilky and Bennett 2M seems a good price for league 1/champ winger + 1M wages = 3M, leaving us with 11MStriker, quality from abroad 4-5M inc wages leaves us with 6Mcouple quality loan signing 2-3M inc wages, leaves us with 3M for JanuaryThese numbers are all guess work obviously but i think it shows we could easily bring in another 5-6 players, considering i haven''t taken into account selling players either nor the fact i expect we could see another free player join, considering Hughton is the mastor of free signings (look at his time at Toon)I am certain the number of new signings will be closer to 6 than 2! I really hope so. We only need to bring in 3 quality players in my eyes, 2 defenders and a striker- together that will cost us around 10-13M, the other improvements i would make would be to the squad, because we can''t afford to just improve the starting 11, we need stronger squad players, for example Lansbury replacing Crofts, Pacheco replacing Martin (i don''t think we will sign either of them, just examples). So for me i expect to see 3 real quality signings and 2-3 good squad players come in

[Lets be aving you! 0]

Priceyrice, thanks a lot for nailing down some figures in some form of a breakdown.

 

I think your prices for Championship defenders sound realistic, but less so those for Championship wingers. The Hudderfield Examiner reported Pilks cost 3M including add-ons (League One then) and the UK market has arguably inflated a lot since then.

 

I agree that Hughton could well bring in a good freebie or two. I''m happy with Whitaker, but others are less so and do not rate his chances of starting.

 

I''m not sure whether Bowkett''s figures take account of the compensation we are paying to Brum, presumably not, so possibly another 2M off the starting figure.

 

As you suggest with your breakdown, the only way we can seriously also afford a good-quality striker is to go abroad. Hopefully Ewen Chester knows of some names. It would certainly seem to make more sense than trying the UK market at current prices.

[priceyrice 123]

Good reply Aving you, forgot to take into account compensation for Hughton.Bit surprised by that figure for Pilks, i was sure it was less than £2M, but i am going from memory here, the truth is it is very hard to actually know what any of our signings cost, even the accounts aren''t particularly helpful. I also think Pilkington was a little cheaper than he would normally be because of his injury. You don''t often see wingers move from the champ to a prem team so it is hard to put a price on them, i can''t imagine someone like Ince (blackpool) costing too much though. I think Jarvis from Wolves has been quoted at around 5M. i don''t think a winger is priority, but we do need cover for Pilks and Bennett in the form of a direct winger, Surman isn''t that type of player.I am happy with Whitaker too, despite hearing some bad things from across the border, he''s an international player on a free, i am just slightly concerned over what position he will be playing, i would be happy to see another RB come in (gunter) and Martin made into a permanent CB.i expect we will see 1/2 foreign signings come in, Chester is held in high regard up in Scotland, it''s just a shame he had a fall out with Lambert when he was here. But you right, we need to avoid the English market, Rodriguez was silly money and i don''t want to see an old has been come in, i would like to see someone young and hungry come in with a great eye for goal, no idea who though, perhaps Wilfried (Ivory Coast young striker, tall, very powerful and good ability on the ball).

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="priceyrice"]Winger - going by the price of Pilky and Bennett 2M seems a good price for league 1/champ winger....[/quote]Why do a few of you insist on calling him Pilky when his team mates and almost everybody else call him Pilks? Sounds so childish. [:$]

[Lets be aving you! 0]

"truth is it is very hard to actually know what any of our signings cost"

 

Very true, Priceyrice, and things get even more complicated with the various add-ons. Presumably any add-ons for past signings based on appearances, etc. (Surman may be a case in point) also deplete the transfer pot further.

[Monty13 2,251]

"There are only 38 games in a Premier League season and so each game is very important. Therefore there isn''t much point in waiting until January as we might be struggling by then and so a lot harder and more expensive to attract new players."

I didn''t suggest we wait to do all our business in January, I suggested that the only players we definitely need are a LB and a Striker as it stands imo, but if there are others that can improve upon what we already have, we should get them now. I also suggested that, like last year, a large portion of our transfer kitty will be held in reserve till January again, at least a third I would have thought, to deal with any shortcomings that become obvious as the season progresses.

That''s just being sensible, are you seriously suggesting we spank it all now so we get full value over the season and don''t buy anyone in January to cover injuries/obvious gaps in quality in the squad because we wont get full value over the season as they will only play half the games? Howson and Bennett were a waste of money then.

[Lets be aving you! 0]

Monty13, though maybe not as much as a third, I do agree that a portion should be left for January.

 

What would happen if, say, Ruddy got injured around Christmas time and we needed to loan in a keeper? I''d be happy at the moment with Steer or Rudd for the odd game, but not for half a season.

[Monty13 2,251]

Let''s be ''aving you!"Monty13, though maybe not as much as a third, I do agree that a portion should be left for January. What would happen if, say, Ruddy got injured around Christmas time and we needed to loan in a keeper? I''d be happy at the moment with Steer or Rudd for the odd game, but not for half a season."

Its not just that nightmare scenario though, the Bennett and Howson deals were good to do at that time because otherwise we might have missed out in the summer, as well as the fact they both had an immediate playing impact.

A Third depending on estimates is somewhere between 5-8 Million, so for fee and extra wages that''s a good sum to get in a couple of guys in form or one and someone to cover a season threatening injury (lets hope not!) in January. Again depending on your estimates that should leave 10-17 million this summer, more than enough for a decent LB, Striker and a couple of other players who are better than what we already have in certain positions, plus maybe some frees loans. I personally think we will get in at least 6 over the course of the season, just not all this summer, and nor should we put all our eggs in one basket.

[mrs miggins 0]

what about Omer Toprak. He''s a great young defender (CB), i think he still playes for byern lev (who only finished 5th). don''t know how much he would cost tho, perhaps £5-8m  (not taking into account wages), but would be worth it as he''s got bag of potential and would be good with bennett.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]what about Omer Toprak. He''s a great young defender (CB), i think he still playes for byern lev (who only finished 5th). don''t know how much he would cost tho, perhaps £5-8m  (not taking into account wages), but would be worth it as he''s got bag of potential and would be good with bennett.[/quote]

 

£8m? On a CB? I''ll have some of what you''ve been smoking.

[Mahogany 0]

I think a lot of people are over estimating how strong the Premiership will be next season. Sure West Ham, Southampton and Reading have a lot of money to spend but I don''t think any of them were that good last season and replacing large numbers of players can cause disruption. Other teams are likely to be weaker than last year. Swansea have lost Rodgers, who knows how Laudrup will adjust to the English game, theyve also lost their best player in Sigurdsson. West Brom have gone for someone new to management and that''s always a big risk. Fulham are likely to lose their best player and have basically no strikers any more. Stoke, Sunderland, QPR, Wigan were all worse teams than us last year and so far I see no reason why they won''t be again.

We have a mid table quality team at the moment, sure there are better players out there in every position, but there isn''t anyone in our squad who can''t do a job in the Premiership (apart from maybe Crofts and C.Martin).

[mrs miggins 0]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]what about Omer Toprak. He''s a great young defender (CB), i think he still playes for byern lev (who only finished 5th). don''t know how much he would cost tho, perhaps £5-8m  (not taking into account wages), but would be worth it as he''s got bag of potential and would be good with bennett.[/quote]

 

what''s wrong with £5m?

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I don''t understand why so many are so keen to pick apart a successful squad. CH hasn''t brought Whittaker in as a utility player who might come in useful, he is the RB to replace Naughton (and not a loan either). If Martin is chosen to play RB, then Whittaker is available to cover any defensive position or even DMF. Similarly, Butterfield is ideally an AMF playing behind the striker(s), but he can also play out wide or as a DMF if needed to. As Ricardo said on page 1 of this post, the actual need is a LB to replace Drury and a striker (to replace Wilbraham). Get those in and a good squad will be even better.

[priceyrice 123]

[quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]I don''t understand why so many are so keen to pick apart a successful squad. CH hasn''t brought Whittaker in as a utility player who might come in useful, he is the RB to replace Naughton (and not a loan either). If Martin is chosen to play RB, then Whittaker is available to cover any defensive position or even DMF. Similarly, Butterfield is ideally an AMF playing behind the striker(s), but he can also play out wide or as a DMF if needed to. As Ricardo said on page 1 of this post, the actual need is a LB to replace Drury and a striker (to replace Wilbraham). Get those in and a good squad will be even better.[/quote]So your happy with our CBs, considering it was our weakest position last year and we have arguably lost our best CB?? Some people really are blowing my mind, have you forgotten already how poor Ward and Barnett were this year. Bennett didn''t fill me with confidence either but i am putting that down to being chucked in the deep end, after a good pre season i expect him to be much better

[mrs miggins 0]

yeah we need a LB and a good CB to replace whitbread, personally hoping it is not curtis davies and show a little more ambition than the likes of him. whitaker i would have thought will be replacing naughton for RB slot or CB but personally doubt he will be a regular feature in the prem. imo

[The 12th Devine 0]

Defensive midfielder imperative. I don''t understand why people think we''re sorted in this position, since Johnson couldn''t hold down a place in the side, Crofts was out of his depth and Fox is a jack of all trades but master of nothing.

We must sign:

central defender

left back

centre midfield

striker

Would like another wide right midfielder but not crucial given our other attacking midfield options. And it''s not ripping apart a squad but trying to move forward. This is a very tough league this year – way tougher than last – and our priority is to finish 17th ... which won''t be easy. If Hughton can be ambitious in securing new blood but keep the sense of togetherness, we will be alright.

[Mahogany 0]

The main reason we conceded so many last year was the way we played. It was rare for us to have 50% or more possession and were always very attack minded.

If we keep the ball a bit more, which shouldn''t be too hard considering the range of quality midfielders we have, and play more conservatively at times, that will go a long way towards shoring up our defence

[Skerritt 0]

IMO we have plenty of defensive quality at CB as we have Bennet who made an instant impact when he came to us, we have Ayala who showed signs of quality before being injured, we have Martin who looked very comfortable at the middle of the defence and we have Ward and Whittaker who can both come in as cover if a CB gets injured so we have lots of quality and if we can keep Ayala fit we should have a great back 4.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

To belatedly answer priceyrice''s question above: no, I don''t feel that it''s ''necessary'' to bring in another CB. City have six players who can play at CB. Most of the goals conceded last year, IMO, were conceded by outfield players defending poorly. Another CB or a DMF would not necessarily change that.

My point was about what players are ''essential''. With Drury leaving there is only Tierney backed up by Whittaker and Lappin as cover. Another LB would insure at least 2 players available at every position (rather than depending on cover from elsewhere). Wilbraham leaving and Vaughan''s injury problems last year left us with only 3 available strikers for most of the season. That makes another striker essential, IMO, even if CH brings CM back.

I would rather CH goes for quality in those two positions before looking elsewhere. That doesn''t rule out other changes, but I would prefer to see those positions sorted first.

[tom cavendish 0]

1 left-back - Chris Gunter1 right-back - Kieran Trippier1 central defender - Madjid Bougherra / Adrian Mariappa / Ron Vlaar 1 strong and mobile defensive midfielder - Emmanuel Frimpong / James McCarthy / James McArthur1 wide midfielder - Craig Bellamy (who can also play as a striker) / Matt Phillips1 Striker - Lacina Traore / Craig Bellamy / Jordan Rhodes

[Mahogany 0]

Left back - Yeah we need one, Forest have loads of money now and they were quoting 4m for Gunther, not worth it at that price and I doubt they''d accept less

Right Back - Again yes we need one, don''t know enough about Trappier to comment.

Centre Back - When he had a run of games early last season Barnett was our best defender, he''s worth holding on to as 4th choice while Martin, Ayala and Bennett are all good enough to fight it out for 1st chocie.

DM - We don''t need a strong defensive midfielder we just need to control the ball a bit more, we already have the midfielders to do this so no need to change there.

Wide Mid - Bellamy?? You''re having a laugh. Phillips will probably be overpriced as he seems to get a lot of hype. Bennett and Pilkington are 1st names on the team sheet for me so we should be looking for a back up winger if anything so someone pretty cheap.

Striker - Rhodes is massively overpriced. Looking at our squad I reckon we''ll be playing 1 up front quite often in which case we have plenty of cover there.

[Highland Canary 76]

All this talk about Snodgrass - a good player but I still see defence as a more critical area (and, arguably, a striker too). If our budget is so limited compared to competitor clubs I''d prefer one or two players of superior quality rather than adding further ''squad'' players. I understand the arguments about not judging the squad for another month but we should not be complacent about the next season. The premier league is stronger, the promoted teams have resource and are spending. Unfortunately, I can''t see QPR struggling next year either. Will we be playing with the exuberance of the newly promoted Lambert team of 12 months ago? I think that''s unlikely too. So, at the very least, we need a better defence, already weakened by the loss of Drury, Whitbread and Naughton.   

 

[havemyhowsonit 0]

God. I wish the board would just look at this forum and just realise there''s soooo many candidates for the managers position. They don''t have to look elsewhere at all. Absolute abundance of them and they all think they know what they talking about after finishing 12th last season, They could do better?!!!!!

[smooth 114]

I am sure Hughotn will bring in 3-4 players now in addition to Butterfield (who has potential and is def one for development) and Whittaker (whose experience will be invaluable).But the biggest thing was from last season, as Ruddy eluded to, was that we had to score one goal to possibly get a point, 2 if we had any chance of 3 points.Our defence needs help and all points are right, we didn''t have possession, we lacked organisation, we have lost our better players and ability to break up attacks.Whittaker has to be cover for Martin at RB but I also would agree the R Martin is looking much better at centre back. But is our defensive group better? I think Hughton will bring in defensive strategies to help but we have added one player, to an area where we have lost three KEY players.In midfield I do think we need that defensive midfielder, it was crying out the whole of last season. It was mentioned on here regulalry that we wanted a morph of Fox and Johnson. I feel that we have capable players but not that one player who has the tenacity we need and have discussed this many times on here. Stuart Holden is still a player I would look at.Winger and Snodgrass I would say is a great call, one that will get better at this club and one that will make our midfield better.Striker, we need an upgrade to push Holty, Morison and Vaughan are playing for that number 2 spot and Morison should be in that spot but with Holty''s disciplinary record and age we will need to begin to bring in an upgrade or a player who can make a stake for our number 1 striker for the years to come as GH gets older.So yes we have two transfer windows this season, we have seen how by bringing in a key player a transfer window too late almost saved our season before in this league. We cannot fall into that trap. So the news on Snodgrass is good, I hope we have some news on other key positions. Also again no one has acknowledged that any of our current players may leave, whether that is Hughton saying you may not have the opportunities you hope for or the player himself sees opportunity of first team football elsewhere.I do expect a player or two to leave and I do feel our priorities are to fill the core of our team and full back position. Snodgrass would be an exceptional buy if we can get him at a price below 3 million. Saw a post yesterday refer that we had put in a £1.5million bid in, if so and he wants out we can begin to turn the screw and get a bargain for a very exceptional player.

[Salopian 1]

We have two right backs in Whittaker and Martin, and one left back, if the Webster doesn''t come, plus Lappin.

 

We have four CBs plus Martin.

 

We have two players for every position in the midfield, except right wing, but when we play the diamond we usually play only one winger.

 

We have four strikers plus Vaughan.

 

Looking at this list, I would expect Webster or some other LB to come, possibly an experienced CB, because we lack experience except for Ward. I hope that we sign a striker, because on the basis of last season only Holt and Morison are likely to score many goals (- I hope that Surs and Pilks will score as many, Howson more in a full season, and Butterfield a few).

 

On my reckoning we need three, and keep some money in reserve in case of emergency in January. It''s nice to have good players to come in for cover, but if you have too many you run the risk of not being able to give them enough games, or else endless change the team to accommodate all players. There is also the question of declared squad - the 25. Those not in it and over age will not get many games - they will go out on loan.

 

Finally, CH gave a hint that when he spoke he hadn''t fully decided on which players he needed to sign and which to show the door. If any leave, this could obviously make a difference.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

We don''t need 8 new players this summer. We have a good team already. Personally i think we need another left back and a centre back with some experience and pace and then i am happy with the squad. Anything on top of that is a bonus.

I am not convinced we need another striker as i think we will play one up front quite a bit this season and if the worst came to the worst we have several midfielders who could do a job as a second striker anyway.