Chrissy Martin to stay

[KeelansGlove 0]

If Martin showed half as much effort as you have sticking up for him on here he would probably be the first name on the teamsheet GP.

Let it go ! I didn''t think that Dave Stihavka was ever given a fair shout but eventually I moved on !

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]The four games Martin played last season - he did nothing!!! Especially at home against West Brom you''d think he would be out to show we he can do. He wasn''t. Didn''t seem interested. Get rid of him ASAP. Will only be any good to us if we are relegated back to League 1.[/quote]

The WBA game is probably a good example of what it might be like for Chris Martin at this level.

 

They let him have the ball but only a fair distance from goal. Any time he tried to do something in a dangerous area they dealt with him fairly comfortably.

 

Chris Martin, like most people, look a good player when they''re given time and space to play, especially when they''re as comfortable on the ball as Martin is. Does Martin have enough about him to cause teams real problems at this level when he isn''t being gifted time and space? Probably not.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="paul moy"]If a striker cannot show value to a side in four games in attitude, effort, and goal chances then he is probably not good enough. Attitude and effort can gain a player extra opportunities to play. How many games did Ba or Cisse need to show their Prem credentials?  Admittedly there are some exceptions, but in the Prem time is something that can cost relegation especially at our lowly level. [/quote]
I take it you mean the same Ba who after scoring 4 in his first 4 games in the prem, then went on a 5 game spell without scoring. If we''d only analysed those 5 games he''d have been written off as well.

Also look at the last 5 games Cisse played before signing for Newcastle - 0 goals...

If you only look at tiny snapshots you will inevitably draw incorrect conclusions, in some cases that a player is a world beater, or alternatively that they''re a poor player and out of their depth. It''s only by looking at a fair section that we can draw reasonable conclusions about a player, and looking at 4 early games when we were in a new league and still adjusting is hardly being fair is it?

One great comparison here is Thierry Henry, the guy didn''t score in his first 8 games for Arsenal in 99/00, he then scored twice in his next two but then went a further 7 games before netting again in the 8th. So just 2 goals in 17 games (which is worse than Jackson), but that didn''t make Henry a poor player or not good enough, he simply needed time to adjust and hit his stride.

On your thinking he''d have been offloaded well before, based on having done nothing in his first 8 premiership games...
[/quote]

Er, I think it''s safe to say that if I had ten minutes looking at a non-scoring Henri I would still be convinced to perservere not least because of his rare pace and ball control. I used to think Martin would make it when he first came on the scene, but that''s seven years ago. Even I was blinded at the time until he got a new contract and turned up well overweight for pre-season and was given scathing criticism by the manager and loaned out to Luton. Events have followed in a predictable manner, sadly. Too many people now are still in denial.

 

[kingsway 94]

The WBA game is probably a good example of what it might be like for Chris Martin at this level.

 

They let him have the ball but only a fair distance from goal. Any time he tried to do something in a dangerous area they dealt with him fairly comfortably.

 

Chris Martin, like most people, look a good player when they''re given time and space to play, especially when they''re as comfortable on the ball as Martin is. Does Martin have enough about him to cause teams real problems at this level when he isn''t being gifted time and space? Probably not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on!

 

I think the decision to play the ineffective Chris Martin in last seasons home game against West Brom played a large part in us losing the game. He was just no threat to their backline, just playing some nice looking non penetrative stuff miles away from the WBA box which is exactly what they wanted!

 

Not good enough and for his sake as well he should be moved on so he can make the most of his ability at mid Championship at best!

[Gingerpele 0]

Hilarious...

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="kingsway"]

The WBA game is probably a good example of what it might be like for Chris Martin at this level.

 

They let him have the ball but only a fair distance from goal. Any time he tried to do something in a dangerous area they dealt with him fairly comfortably.

 

Chris Martin, like most people, look a good player when they''re given time and space to play, especially when they''re as comfortable on the ball as Martin is. Does Martin have enough about him to cause teams real problems at this level when he isn''t being gifted time and space? Probably not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on!

 

I think the decision to play the ineffective Chris Martin in last seasons home game against West Brom played a large part in us losing the game. He was just no threat to their backline, just playing some nice looking non penetrative stuff miles away from the WBA box which is exactly what they wanted!

 

Not good enough and for his sake as well he should be moved on so he can make the most of his ability at mid Championship at best!

[/quote]

Double Spot on !!

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="paul moy"]Er, I think it''s safe to say that if I had ten minutes looking at a non-scoring Henry I would still be convinced to perservere not least because of his rare pace and ball control.[/quote]The problem was that in all honesty he didn''t look that great in those early games and an awful lot of Arsenal fans were worried that they''d paid 11mil for a winger who couldn''t cut it in Italy and was then being played out of position and not scoring for them or even looking likely to.Henry didn''t instantly look like the world class striker that ANY side would have wanted, he looked uncomfortable, off his game and arguably a waste of money - 20 or so games later that initial concern was becoming a distant memory, but without those game opportunities he may never have gone on to be the player he was.The point is arguably moot anyway, in that Martin shouldn''t really be getting selected over the other main options in either attack or behind the front men, the whole debate is not that he''s a replacement for any first team player, he''s simply a useful backup option if we get a plague of injuries and suspensions.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Agreed. If we have spaces in the 25 man squad

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="paul moy"]Er, I think it''s safe to say that if I had ten minutes looking at a non-scoring Henry I would still be convinced to perservere not least because of his rare pace and ball control.[/quote]
The problem was that in all honesty he didn''t look that great in those early games and an awful lot of Arsenal fans were worried that they''d paid 11mil for a winger who couldn''t cut it in Italy and was then being played out of position and not scoring for them or even looking likely to.

Henry didn''t instantly look like the world class striker that ANY side would have wanted, he looked uncomfortable, off his game and arguably a waste of money - 20 or so games later that initial concern was becoming a distant memory, but without those game opportunities he may never have gone on to be the player he was.

The point is arguably moot anyway, in that Martin shouldn''t really be getting selected over the other main options in either attack or behind the front men, the whole debate is not that he''s a replacement for any first team player, he''s simply a useful backup option if we get a plague of injuries and suspensions.
[/quote]

The fact is that we''ve now seen Martin for seven years and surely we should all be able to see that he not going to ever be a top goalscorer or anything for that matter that will meet Prem standards.  Henry after seven years was at the top of his game in the Prem.

 

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="kingsway"]Spot on!I think the decision to play the ineffective Chris Martin in last seasons home game against West Brom played a large part in us losing the game. He was just no threat to their backline, just playing some nice looking non penetrative stuff miles away from the WBA box which is exactly what they wanted!Not good enough and for his sake as well he should be moved on so he can make the most of his ability at mid Championship at best![/quote]So now it''s purely down to Chris Martin that we lost against WBA, f**k me how far will some ''fans'' go to sling mud at the guy???He may not have had a good game against them, but what about the numerous games that Moro struggled in and got criticised for? What about the games where other first team players were completely anonymous or even shockingly poor (e.g. Ward against Liverpool)?Apparently, most other first team players can be excused a poor game here and there, but Martin has one and suddenly isn''t good enough for this level, should be sold and somehow is responsible for us losing a game by being ineffective in an attacking manner.To be honest I''m getting sick of the carp that''s being spouted by some on here, we know he isn''t world class, we know he isn''t first choice and we know he isn''t likely to get many games this year, but that doesn''t make him a bad player, or one who brings no value to the squad and should be sold for whatever someone deigns to offer.HE''S A SQUAD PLAYER FFS!

[paul moy 235]

* is not

[Gingerpele 0]

Just one question, where were Holt and Morison 7 years into their careers?

[Six Pack 94]

[quote user="kingsway"]

The WBA game is probably a good example of what it might be like for Chris Martin at this level.

 

They let him have the ball but only a fair distance from goal. Any time he tried to do something in a dangerous area they dealt with him fairly comfortably.

 

Chris Martin, like most people, look a good player when they''re given time and space to play, especially when they''re as comfortable on the ball as Martin is. Does Martin have enough about him to cause teams real problems at this level when he isn''t being gifted time and space? Probably not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on!

 

I think the decision to play the ineffective Chris Martin in last seasons home game against West Brom played a large part in us losing the game. He was just no threat to their backline, just playing some nice looking non penetrative stuff miles away from the WBA box which is exactly what they wanted!

 

Not good enough and for his sake as well he should be moved on so he can make the most of his ability at mid Championship at best!

[/quote]The main reasons why we lost that game are:

• De Laet made a massive defensive error
• Morrison unmarked - missed an open goal with a header
• the referee chose to not see clear penalty appeals

[Gaz_in_NZ 9]

Chris Martin is a Norwich City player who is training hard to fight his way back in to the side and for this he gets my respect, support and good wishes. Martin''s goal against Leeds in Div 1 season was brilliant, I''ve watched it a few times and it really was a top drawer header! I hope he can replicate it and shut some ''''supporters'''' up.

[KeelansGlove 0]

Im sure some people on here could have an argument in an empty room. I hope we do not have space in the squad to include a player of Martins ability (thats not to say he is rubbish, we just need better)

[kingsway 94]

Indy_Bones 

 

So now it''s purely down to Chris Martin that we lost against WBA, f**k me how far will some ''fans'' go to sling mud at the guy???He may not have had a good game against them, but what about the numerous games that Moro struggled in and got criticised for? What about the games where other first team players were completely anonymous or even shockingly poor (e.g. Ward against Liverpool)?Apparently, most other first team players can be excused a poor game here and there, but Martin has one and suddenly isn''t good enough for this level, should be sold and somehow is responsible for us losing a game by being ineffective in an attacking manner.To be honest I''m getting sick of the carp that''s being spouted by some on here, we know he isn''t world class, we know he isn''t first choice and we know he isn''t likely to get many games this year, but that doesn''t make him a bad player, or one who brings no value to the squad and should be sold for whatever someone deigns to offer.HE''S A SQUAD PLAYER FFS!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never said anywhere in my post that Chris Martin was PURELY to blame for the WBA home defeat!

 

What I said was that Chris Martins inclusion nullifyed us hugely as an attacking force cause he isn''t good enough as a forward at Premiership level!

 

Yes Morison had some awful games when he let his head drop but his still produced the goods overall and is in reality a different level to Chris Martin!

 

And yes Ward would of better of staying at home, instead of playing in the Liverpool game but fortunately in most of his other games last season, he was very effective, somethign Chris Martin wasn''t in his few appearances!

 

I''ve nothing against Chris Martin and I''m not slagging him of for the sake or it and/or I don''t like him just critically critiscising him. I enjoyed his terrific play when he first burst upon the scene WAY back in 2007 for half a seaosn and then the League 1 campaign but facts are facts. Hes proved hes not good enough for where we are now and in my opinion his career would be better served by him moving to a lower Championship club or a League 1 club pushing for promotion!

 

If we now signed a player who was of a similar ability level to Chris Martin, he''d get hammered by the fans and we''d all come to the opinion hes not good enough and others more nasty would call him c*ap!

 

Too many fans still cling to the hope he will come good cause hes a local guy!

[Bill 1,788]

have to agree with the last two paragraphs

 

much as I''m sure most City fans would love to see him stay and make it here, I think we have ''outgrown hin'' so to speak - and sad as it is we cannot simply have players here who are merely squad players

 

we have the money and we should use it, if, I say if Hughton decides that Martin is not going to be able to develop further and be up to to standard required

 

nothing would please most either were we still to be able to play Korey Smith, Adayemi, Chris Martin, Rudd with a couple of others on the bench - however the price of that would be us lumbering around the bottom of the Championship and I''m not too sure that is a price most would pay

 

 

[Yellow Wal 314]

I couldn''t give monkeys where he is from, what I do care about is a squad player of our club being unnecessarily critised by so called fans. For any of our players it''s going to be hard playing enough against 11 players in the opposing side without having to play against a few thousand of his own ''supporters''.

Get over it, he is, at the moment, part of our squad and while he is I will not go out of my way to criticise him. I have enough faith in the manager to keep him if he thinks he is good enough and to move him on if he feels he isn''t.

And what is all this c*ap about him being local? I thought he came from Beccles ............... and that''s in bloody Suffolk!

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

I really don''t think that any of us Martin doubters are "against" him. We just consider that he has not got enough in his locker for us next season and would prefer better.

 

This is just an opinion, not outright criticism IMO.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Broadstairs - Your second sentence sounds a fair and reasonable statement which I can understand.

Unfortunately I cannot agree with your first sentence as I feel there are posters who are definitely "against" him and some seem to take every opportunity, and great pleasure in criticising him.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="kingsway"]Yes Morison had some awful games when he let his head drop but his still produced the goods overall and is in reality a different level to Chris Martin![/quote]And how many games did Moro get overall compared to Martin?Moro started the season in great form then tailed off horribly, whereas Martin started the season pretty poorly but wasn''t given the further games to turn it around - this is the key point here.

[quote]And yes Ward would of better of staying at home, instead of playing in the Liverpool game but fortunately in most of his other games last season, he was very effective, somethign Chris Martin wasn''t in his few appearances![/quote]

I''m pretty sure that most fans can pick out 3-4 games from last season where Ward had poor/anonymous games - just the same as Martin, but yet again - Ward got more game time to balance these games out with some decent performances - Martin didn''t.

[quote]If we now signed a player who was of a similar ability level to Chris Martin, he''d get hammered by the fans and we''d all come to the opinion hes not good enough and others more nasty would call him c*ap![/quote]

I''d like to think that we''d give him more than 4 games before dismissing them as crap, yet apparently we can''t extend that opportunity to Martin...

[quote]Too many fans still cling to the hope he will come good cause hes a local guy![/quote]

No, no, no, no, no and NO!!!

I don''t give a damn that''s he''s local or came through the youth academy, I simply think he''s a decent player with good technical ability who can do a job as a squad backup player and who''s getting a lot of unfair abuse and criticism by some fans, primarily on the back of 4 games at the start of last season.

I don''t rate Jackson, the fact that he''s Canadian doesn''t come into, just the same as Martin coming from Beccles has no bearing on what I think of his ability - it''s completely irrelevant, end of.

[Gingerpele 0]

No one cares Chris Martin is from Beccles or Bungay, where ever he''s from. How on earth does that make any difference to anyone? I''ve never been to either of those places, they mean nothing to me, and most other fans. S why would we care he''s from one of them?

[Bill 1,788]

" who can do a job as a squad backup player "

 

That is a luxury we cannot afford both in financial and football terms. Yes we had to ''go with what we have got'' last season but after picking up around £75m and roughly the same coming in this season with a massive increase if we stay up we cannot regard having ''squad back up players''

 

If, I say if, he is not up to being a first team regular then we need to be bringing in players who are. Maybe his position is not the most important to concentrate our resources upon at this time, but when it is then either he is up to the quality of a first team regular or not

 

If it is not then he needs to move on.

 

 

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]No one cares Chris Martin is from Beccles or Bungay, where ever he''s from. How on earth does that make any difference to anyone? I''ve never been to either of those places, they mean nothing to me, and most other fans. S why would we care he''s from one of them?[/quote]

That''s rubbish and you know it.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]No one cares Chris Martin is from Beccles or Bungay, where ever he''s from. How on earth does that make any difference to anyone? I''ve never been to either of those places, they mean nothing to me, and most other fans. S why would we care he''s from one of them?[/quote]

That''s rubbish and you know it.[/quote]

I''m sorry, but the only one speaking rubbish regarding location here is you Paul.I''ll re-iterate it incase you didn''t get it the first time:I DON''T GIVE A DAMN WHERE ANY OF OUR PLAYERS ARE FROM, ALL I CARE ABOUT IS THEIR ABILITY AND HOW WELL THEY PLAY FOR US - END OFIs that clear enough for you, or are you going to insist that apparently you know mine, GP''s and numerous other posters minds better than they do????It''s got sweet FA to do with Martin being ''local'', simply that some of us think he''s a decent player who could do a job if needed. I don''t know how much clearer you want us to make it FFS.

[Gingerpele 0]

No Paul, it''s not rubbish. How on earth can you think you can tell people how they think... The ONLY people who mention him being a ''local lad'' are the ones who don''t rate them, who are just being irrational and are unable to accept others opinions so have to make up stupid reasons as to why oers think different to them.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]No one cares Chris Martin is from Beccles or Bungay, where ever he''s from. How on earth does that make any difference to anyone? I''ve never been to either of those places, they mean nothing to me, and most other fans. S why would we care he''s from one of them?[/quote]

That''s rubbish and you know it.[/quote]

I''m sorry, but the only one speaking rubbish regarding location here is you Paul.

I''ll re-iterate it incase you didn''t get it the first time:

I DON''T GIVE A DAMN WHERE ANY OF OUR PLAYERS ARE FROM, ALL I CARE ABOUT IS THEIR ABILITY AND HOW WELL THEY PLAY FOR US - END OF

Is that clear enough for you, or are you going to insist that apparently you know mine, GP''s and numerous other posters minds better than they do????

It''s got sweet FA to do with Martin being ''local'', simply that some of us think he''s a decent player who could do a job if needed. I don''t know how much clearer you want us to make it FFS.
[/quote]

 

You may not care but many obviously do and I was actually threatened with physical violence on here by one of those.  There will be exceptions but we all know that to quote ''Nobody cares blahblah'' is plainly rubbish.  

[Bill 1,788]

"he''s a decent player who could do a job if needed"

 

What is that job ?

 

A first team regular ?

 

 

[Gingerpele 0]

And how did our League One superstar do in his 90 min competitive match last night?

Those braces in friendlies really came in handy.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I still think CM offers enough to warrant his place as fifth striker as he can also play as an attacking midfielder (as Snodgrass has been doing lately). CH seems to be happy with his strikers, and that is good enough for me.