WatlingSouthChase would know what to do, but so does Bowkett

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Nutty et al.,

I note you haven''t commented upon our £2.5m debt servicing holiday that Mr Bowkett managed to negotiate for NCFC last season and I believe has been secured for this season too. Where do you think the club woukl have been if we had been required to service the debt last season?

Stuck for words are we?

 

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

I''m not nutty and I don''t know if I''m "et al" either, but I''m not quite sure what you''re trying to make here, Tangible. With or without relegation we were obviously in financial difficulties. How much is a moot point. I always take with a pinch of salt the horrified reactions of any incoming administration, whether it is at a football club or in government. They always say they''ve inherited an absolute mess that requires drastic action.

 

It is quite true the new regime negotiated a stabilisation package that included a debt repayment holiday. My strong suspicion is the old regime would have tried to do the same. And probably would have succeeded. Banks do not like pulling the plug on football clubs. You only have to look at how the Co-op Bank kept afloat Sheffield Wednesday - which was in far worse trouble than us - to see the truth of that.

 

So the new regime deserves congratulations for the rescue package, including the repayment holiday, but is not as if this was an unprecedented act of business genius that no-one else would have thought of or been able to carry through. Renegotiating banking covenants (as with Cullum''s company) and getting repayment holidays are not that uncommon.

 

[nutty nigel 7,606]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Nutty et al.,

I note you haven''t commented upon our £2.5m debt servicing holiday that Mr Bowkett managed to negotiate for NCFC last season and I believe has been secured for this season too. Where do you think the club woukl have been if we had been required to service the debt last season?

Stuck for words are we?

 

 

[/quote]

WTF Has this to do with anything on this thread? Whereabouts in this thread was mention of the 2.5m debt servicing holiday that Mr Bowkett managed to negotiate. This is just more wriggling from you Chase Luvvies (love it Tilly). But I''ll humour you - what are you suggesting would have happened if this debt servicing holiday hadn''t been negotiated? And was it as much in the banks interest as the clubs to negotiate such a deal? I may be wrong, and you''re the money man, but I reckon the bank see this loan as recoverable in full with interest. I''m not surprised that such a holiday was negotiated. The alternative would surely cost them millions.

 

Now Tangie et all the Chase Luvvies, let''s have a little think about what you haven''t commented on.........

 

Let''s start with how Chase lined his pockets even in the dark days of 1996. How in January 1996 he managed to give himself a pay increase which took his salary from £50,000 pa to £120,00 pa while the clubs name was dragged around every lending institution in London. And how later he managed to take a further six figure sum for "loss of office".

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Nutty et al.,

I note you haven''t commented upon our £2.5m debt servicing holiday that Mr Bowkett managed to negotiate for NCFC last season and I believe has been secured for this season too. Where do you think the club woukl have been if we had been required to service the debt last season?

Stuck for words are we?

 

 

[/quote]

Tangy. I don''t believe for one minute that administration is an option where Delia is concerned and therefore, she would have dipped in her handbag for another couple of million if she had to.

 

Why, do you think, Chase didn''t do that instead of selling Ward and Newsome?

 

[/quote]

 

Doooooooo....... what...................? Dip in his handbag?

 

My, my. You really are a fount of knowledge.

 

[;)]

 

OTBC

 

 

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

My, my. You really are a fount of knowledge.

 

 

[/quote]At least my knowledge is first hand and not something I''ve googled.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Nutty et al.,

I note you haven''t commented upon our £2.5m debt servicing holiday that Mr Bowkett managed to negotiate for NCFC last season and I believe has been secured for this season too. Where do you think the club woukl have been if we had been required to service the debt last season?

Stuck for words are we?

 

 

[/quote]

 

---

 

I''m not nutty and I don''t know if I''m "et al" either, but I''m not quite sure what you''re trying to make here, Tangible. With or without relegation we were obviously in financial difficulties. How much is a moot point. I always take with a pinch of salt the horrified reactions of any incoming administration, whether it is at a football club or in government. They always say they''ve inherited an absolute mess that requires drastic action.

 

It is quite true the new regime negotiated a stabilisation package that included a debt repayment holiday. My strong suspicion is the old regime would have tried to do the same. And probably would have succeeded. Banks do not like pulling the plug on football clubs. You only have to look at how the Co-op Bank kept afloat Sheffield Wednesday - which was in far worse trouble than us - to see the truth of that.

 

So the new regime deserves congratulations for the rescue package, including the repayment holiday, but is not as if this was an unprecedented act of business genius that no-one else would have thought of or been able to carry through. Renegotiating banking covenants (as with Cullum''s company) and getting repayment holidays are not that uncommon.

 

[/quote]

 

I guess Barclays were lucky that the Chase Out Loons were on their side then!

 

OTBC

 

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

 

Dooooooo.........what.....................? Dip in his handbag?

 

My, my. You really are a fount of knowledge.

 

[/quote]

 

 

At least my knowledge is first hand and not something I''ve googled.[/quote]

 

You mean you have first hand knowledge that Robert Chase had a handbag to dip into. Wow! Stunning!

 

Does your pal nutty know that?

 

If old Camuldonum was still around we could have set him off on that trail. Pity.

 

Wow!

 

OTBC

 

[lappinitup 629]

Methinks Bly has been at the ganja again. Nurse will not be pleased. [:$]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Purple Canary,

Good quality post and I expect nothing different from yourself.

However it is the fact that the club needed an approx.  £2.5m per year, holiday from servicing the debts rather than who did the negotiation that is the main point. So when people (e.g., Nutty, Tilly) go on about the situation Chase left,  the same people should think about the situation regarding last season.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Let''s start with how Chase lined his pockets even in the dark days of 1996. How in January 1996 he managed to give himself a pay increase which took his salary from £50,000 pa to £120,00 pa while the clubs name was dragged around every lending institution in London. And how later he managed to take a further six figure sum for "loss of office".

[/quote]

Could you please provide the source for all the figures you are quoting. 

Which NCFC Accounts?

Which note and page number the data is on?

Thanks

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Purple Canary,

Good quality post and I expect nothing different from yourself.

However it is the fact that the club needed an approx.  £2.5m per year, holiday from servicing the debts rather than who did the negotiation that is the main point. So when people (e.g., Nutty, Tilly) go on about the situation Chase left,  the same people should think about the situation regarding last season.

[/quote]

The same could be said for your praise of Preston N. E.

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Purple Canary,

Good quality post and I expect nothing different from yourself.

However it is the fact that the club needed an approx.  £2.5m per year, holiday from servicing the debts rather than who did the negotiation that is the main point. So when people (e.g., Nutty, Tilly) go on about the situation Chase left,  the same people should think about the situation regarding last season.

[/quote]

 

---

 

Tangible, that is a fair point. Both regimes got into financial trouble. But there are two obvious differences. One is that it was much easier in Chase''s day to run a medium-sized football club than it is now. Smith and Jones inherited an increasingly difficult economic climate. Their records need to be seen in that context.

 

The other point is that the banks didn''t want to renegotiate the debt Chase had built up. They didn''t offer a repayment holiday. They demanded their money back. In stark contrast the banks were willing to renegotiate the S&J debt. In other words, it was, with a bit of negotiating, manageable.

 

[nutty nigel 7,606]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Let''s start with how Chase lined his pockets even in the dark days of 1996. How in January 1996 he managed to give himself a pay increase which took his salary from £50,000 pa to £120,00 pa while the clubs name was dragged around every lending institution in London. And how later he managed to take a further six figure sum for "loss of office".

[/quote]

Could you please provide the source for all the figures you are quoting. 

Which NCFC Accounts?

Which note and page number the data is on?

Thanks

 

[/quote]

 

I''ll tell you what I''ll do Tangie, I''ll provide you with the report from the AGM (which I assume most of you Chase Luvvies were at as "being there" seems so more important than "reading about it"). After all most people don''t have the relevant accounts anyway.

 

Now perhaps you or another of you Chase luvvies would care to comment on it just as I was prepared to comment on your points.

 

Thanks

 

 

Chase''s £7000 holiday bonus

Annual meeting hears further details

 

Robert Chase received more than £7000 in holiday pay when he resigned as Norwich City chairman, the club''s annual meeting was told at Carrow Road last night.
Company secretary Trevor Nicholls also told surprised shareholders that Mr Chase''s salary had more than doubled from £50,000 a year to £120,000 with effect from January 1, 1996 -four months before his eventual departure.
The club''s annual report for the six months up to June 30, 1996, showed that Mr Chase had been paid £137,040 for loss of office, plus further emoluments of £83,670 - of which £36,000 belonged to the previous accounting period.
Of the remaining £47,670, Mr Nicholls said £40,000 had constituted Mr Chase''s salary from January-April, 1996, and £7670 had been due in holiday pay.
In total the club had agreed a total settlement of £184,710 with Mr Chase, who had eventually received £108,714 after the deduction of tax and National Insurance.
Asked whether Mr Chase had any moral obligation to return the money, club chairman Barry Lockwood said: ''I don''t get involved in moral matters - I just keep us on a legal track.''
Mr Lockwood also defended the £124,713 in legal fees paid to Greenland Houchen - a firm in which former club director Mr Nicholls is a partner.
''It''s an awful lot of money, but there was an awful lot of legal work in that period,'' said Mr Lockwood.

 

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Could you please provide the source for all the figures you are quoting. 

Which NCFC Accounts?

Which note and page number the data is on?

Thanks

 

[/quote]

Hillarious!!  For years we''ve had to accept Tangy''s guesses, estimates and wild assumptions and yet, as soon as somebody else quotes figures........

 

..........he wants proof! [:D][:D][:D]

[nutty nigel 7,606]

I''ll tell you what I''ll do Tangie, I''ll provide you with the report from the AGM (which I assume most of you Chase Luvvies were at as "being there" seems so more important than "reading about it"). After all most people don''t have the relevant accounts anyway.

 

Now perhaps you or another of you Chase luvvies would care to comment on it just as I was prepared to comment on your points.

 

Thanks

 

 

Chase''s £7000 holiday bonus

Annual meeting hears further details

 

Robert Chase received more than £7000 in holiday pay when he resigned as Norwich City chairman, the club''s annual meeting was told at Carrow Road last night.
Company secretary Trevor Nicholls also told surprised shareholders that Mr Chase''s salary had more than doubled from £50,000 a year to £120,000 with effect from January 1, 1996 -four months before his eventual departure.
The club''s annual report for the six months up to June 30, 1996, showed that Mr Chase had been paid £137,040 for loss of office, plus further emoluments of £83,670 - of which £36,000 belonged to the previous accounting period.
Of the remaining £47,670, Mr Nicholls said £40,000 had constituted Mr Chase''s salary from January-April, 1996, and £7670 had been due in holiday pay.
In total the club had agreed a total settlement of £184,710 with Mr Chase, who had eventually received £108,714 after the deduction of tax and National Insurance.
Asked whether Mr Chase had any moral obligation to return the money, club chairman Barry Lockwood said: ''I don''t get involved in moral matters - I just keep us on a legal track.''
Mr Lockwood also defended the £124,713 in legal fees paid to Greenland Houchen - a firm in which former club director Mr Nicholls is a partner.
''It''s an awful lot of money, but there was an awful lot of legal work in that period,'' said Mr Lockwood.

 

[norfolkchance1 0]

I think you''ve just cut to the Chase there Nutty. The forthcoming responses will be interesting I think.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

The same could be said for your praise of Preston N. E.

[/quote]

Hi Pompous one!

With regard to Preston North End FC., I did question how they could run a football club for lower cost (even after adjusting for player wages, differences in the catering operations and those costs that vary with the size of gates) than Norwich City FC.  and that cost reductions were needed at NCFC.  How interesting to see Mr. McNally prove me right on this issue.

 

BTW. you better get working on improving those academic standards in the USA. 

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Let''s start with how Chase lined his pockets even in the dark days of 1996. How in January 1996 he managed to give himself a pay increase which took his salary from £50,000 pa to £120,00 pa while the clubs name was dragged around every lending institution in London. And how later he managed to take a further six figure sum for "loss of office".

[/quote]

Could you please provide the source for all the figures you are quoting. 

Which NCFC Accounts?

Which note and page number the data is on?

Thanks

 

[/quote]

 

I''ll tell you what I''ll do Tangie, I''ll provide you with the report from the AGM (which I assume most of you Chase Luvvies were at as "being there" seems so more important than "reading about it"). After all most people don''t have the relevant accounts anyway.

 

Now perhaps you or another of you Chase luvvies would care to comment on it just as I was prepared to comment on your points.

 

Thanks

 

 

Chase''s £7000 holiday bonus

Annual meeting hears further details

 

Robert Chase received more than £7000 in holiday pay when he resigned as Norwich City chairman, the club''s annual meeting was told at Carrow Road last night.
Company secretary Trevor Nicholls also told surprised shareholders that Mr Chase''s salary had more than doubled from £50,000 a year to £120,000 with effect from January 1, 1996 -four months before his eventual departure.
The club''s annual report for the six months up to June 30, 1996, showed that Mr Chase had been paid £137,040 for loss of office, plus further emoluments of £83,670 - of which £36,000 belonged to the previous accounting period.
Of the remaining £47,670, Mr Nicholls said £40,000 had constituted Mr Chase''s salary from January-April, 1996, and £7670 had been due in holiday pay.
In total the club had agreed a total settlement of £184,710 with Mr Chase, who had eventually received £108,714 after the deduction of tax and National Insurance.
Asked whether Mr Chase had any moral obligation to return the money, club chairman Barry Lockwood said: ''I don''t get involved in moral matters - I just keep us on a legal track.''
Mr Lockwood also defended the £124,713 in legal fees paid to Greenland Houchen - a firm in which former club director Mr Nicholls is a partner.
''It''s an awful lot of money, but there was an awful lot of legal work in that period,'' said Mr Lockwood.

 

[/quote]

Just to put some perspective on this Nutty, I was aware of Mr Chase''s salary etc. but lets not forget he spent alot of time at Carrow Rd just like a Managing Director.  According to the NCFC Plc Accounts to the 31st May 2010, note 7 page 13, the highest paid director in the year to the 31st May 2009 was paid £185k., presumably that was Doncaster.  The highest paid director to the 31st May 2010 was paid £214k., presumably that was McNally.  Pension contributions were also listed as part of that note.  

Somebody has to run the club!

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Hound of the Basketcases (aka Lappinitup)

 

Please note, yet again I have referenced the NCFC Accounts to a specific date, I have quoted the note number and the page number.

Obviously I have higher standards than you!

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

And how later he (Chase) managed to take a further six figure sum for "loss of office".

[/quote]

Was the "six figure sum" part of a severance package including shares agreed with Geoffrey Watling?

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

The same could be said for your praise of Preston N. E.

[/quote]

Hi Pompous one!

With regard to Preston North End FC., I did question how they could run a football club for lower cost (even after adjusting for player wages, differences in the catering operations and those costs that vary with the size of gates) than Norwich City FC.  and that cost reductions were needed at NCFC.  How interesting to see Mr. McNally prove me right on this issue.

 

BTW. you better get working on improving those academic standards in the USA. 

[/quote]

Tangie, I hope you''ll continue to monitor how well Preston controls their costs in the third level. You may get a clue if they are unable to get out of that level at the first time of asking like Norwich did. Please keep us all posted. We hang on your every word of wisdom as to the merits of clubs other than Norwich. Will you be choosing a new idol ( other than Preston ) for next season?

[nutty nigel 7,606]

[quote user="Tangie"]

Just to put some perspective on this Nutty, I was aware of Mr Chase''s salary etc. but lets not forget he spent alot of time at Carrow Rd just like a Managing Director.  According to the NCFC Plc Accounts to the 31st May 2010, note 7 page 13, the highest paid director in the year to the 31st May 2009 was paid £185k., presumably that was Doncaster.  The highest paid director to the 31st May 2010 was paid £214k., presumably that was McNally.  Pension contributions were also listed as part of that note.  

Somebody has to run the club!

[/quote]

 

Tangie, I never said Chase was all bad did I? I have said on these forums many times about how much time he spent at the club and also how he was hands on over everything. Anyone who had work to do at Carrow Road would have met Big Bob. He was, to use Delia''s phrase, the "all singing, all dancing man" and everything revolved around him. That in the end was his downfall and why since his time there has been a team in place to run the various parts of the business.

 

 

Maybe you could now bring some perspective to the fact that Mr Chase''s salary had more than doubled from £50,000 a year to £120,000 with effect from January 1, 1996 - four months before his eventual departure and at a time when the club, both on and off the pitch, was hurtling into the abyss.

 

 

I''m struggling to understand how, if you knew the figures I was quoting were correct, you made me produce evidence on here. I hope you never question my standards!!!

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,606]

[quote user="Tangie"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

And how later he (Chase) managed to take a further six figure sum for "loss of office".

[/quote]

Was the "six figure sum" part of a severance package including shares agreed with Geoffrey Watling?

 

[/quote]

Well now that would be interesting wouldn''t it?

 

Are you saying that neither Delia or Geoffrey Watling saved the club???

 

The six figure sum was shown in the Annual Report. I thought you already knew about it[;)]

 

 

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,789]

So Tangy are you trying to convince us that Chase receiving £185K in 1996 is on a level playing field with McNally receiving £214K in 2010 some FOURTEEN YEARS LATER?

 

[7rew 0]

Its only 46k in chases favour adjusted for inflation.

[185k in 1996 = 260k in 2010]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

And how later he (Chase) managed to take a further six figure sum for "loss of office".

[/quote]

Tilly,

Was the "six figure sum" part of a severance package including shares agreed with Geoffrey Watling?

In addition during Chase''s period in office, how much did he take in salary in total over those years?

The figures I quoted earlier re Doncaster and McNally are for individual years.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

What funded the extension on the rear of the Barclay when Bellers went.....?

 

Did the majority shareholders chip in with a few bob?

 

Or, was it some other source of dosh that paid for its construction?

 

I don''t think it was ever made public....was it?

 

[vos 155]

So Delia described Robert Chase as "all singing and dancing man" and everything revolved round him. In other words 100% commitment and unlike Doncaster and McNally he had money in the Club. Delia does not possess Chase''s hands on business experience but she would be well advised to keep a closer watch on the finances. After all the Club and her fellow directors directors have lost Delia and Michael £12 million over the past 2 years. The other directors over the same period have gained !!!!!

[TIL 1010 4,789]

Tangy old mate you are really struggling to justify your admiration for Chase.Nutty has given you the FACTS from the 1995/6 accounts plus input from Barry Lockwood so as someone who has far more understanding than myself  with regard to accountancy maybe you could explain and justify the increase Chase paid himself from 50k to 120K within a few months.Likening Chase to McNally and Doncaster is stretching it a tad as Chase was Chairman so a far closer analogy would be to compare his pay over the years to Munby and Bowkett.We had no CEO in Chase''s day but we did have Trevor Nichols.Could you tell me how much he was paid during those days.? £124K in 1995/6 but what about previous years.

If the answers are not on the back of your fag packet maybe you could get Nutty to supply further facts.[;)]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Likening Chase to McNally and Doncaster is stretching it a tad as Chase was Chairman so a far closer analogy would be to compare his pay over the years to Munby and Bowkett.We had no CEO in Chase''s day but we did have Trevor Nichols.

[/quote]

Wrong!  Although Chase had the title of Chairman he spent long hours at Carrow Rd and did alot of the work now done by the Chief Executive. So a comparison with Doncaster and McNally is valid.

While Chase''s emoluments did increase towards the end, we need to put this into some perspective. How much did he get paid over the length of his time as Chairman?  Secondly as I have asked before was his "six figure" severance package agreed by Geoffrey Watling?   

Off the top of my head, I have no idea what Trevor Nichols was paid in previous seasons and I suspect its probably merged in with other  costs. You could always order copies of the Accounts from Companies House and have a look for yourself as you are bound to have more time than me.

 

Finally some questions for Tilly and Nutty:

a) Did Chase sell players?

b) Did Delia''s old regime sell players?

c) Did Chase spend money on Tangible Fixed Assets?

d) Did Delia''s old regime spend money on Tangible Fixed Assets?

I trust the answers to each of these questions is YES, so there''s no difference then!

 

 

[. 0]

How easy it is to pick over the bones of a long eaten meal.The facts are (when petty ''hearsay'' nit picking has ended)... Robert Chase gave City fans many great years... gave us many great players to enjoy and brought unprecidented success to a once unfashionable club.Delia Smith however has served up cheap slops from day one... and has only improved the menu by bringing in a new chef.