WatlingSouthChase would know what to do, but so does Bowkett

[nutty nigel 7,533]

This has got nothing to do with this thread. If you want to start a fresh thread about Robert Chase I''m quite happy to contribute and I reckon Tilly is too. The Butler had better take cover though[:O]

 

If you want to live Norwich City through the record books rather than through experience then good luck to you. Your assumtions that Chase was responsible for all those good times is so misplaced. Chase inherited a side that a few months earlier had won our only major trophy. His legacy was leaving us as relegation candidates to the Third Division. His player trading underpinned this demise.

 

 

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"]

No sunstroke. This is the coolest time of the year in the Caribbean,

 

 

[/quote]No sunstroke.....but loads of ganja.....really cool. [H][+o(][<:o)]

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][

3rd, 4th & 5th place finishes in the top flight; 2 FA Cup semi-finals and European competition and an FA Youth Cup Final victory.

 

 

[/quote]

 

You can''t even support the club through the record books without getting it wrong. The youth cup victory was in 1983. It had nothing to do with Chase.

 

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

This has got nothing to do with this thread. If you want to start a fresh thread about Robert Chase I''m quite happy to contribute and I reckon Tilly is too. The Butler had better take cover though[:O]

 

If you want to live Norwich City through the record books rather than through experience then good luck to you. Your assumtions that Chase was responsible for all those good times is so misplaced. Chase inherited a side that a few months earlier had won our only major trophy. His legacy was leaving us as relegation candidates to the Third Division. His player trading underpinned this demise.

 

 

[/quote]

Why had I better take cover? Are you trying to drag me in again!![:D]

Just for the sake of honesty,if you look at my lists you quoted, he made profit on Newsome, Fleck, Ekoku, Robins. I am sure you have you a list of losses to balance that out.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

This has got nothing to do with this thread. If you want to start a fresh thread about Robert Chase I''m quite happy to contribute and I reckon Tilly is too. The Butler had better take cover though[:O]

 

If you want to live Norwich City through the record books rather than through experience then good luck to you. Your assumtions that Chase was responsible for all those good times is so misplaced. Chase inherited a side that a few months earlier had won our only major trophy. His legacy was leaving us as relegation candidates to the Third Division. His player trading underpinned this demise.

 

 

[/quote]

Why had I better take cover? Are you trying to drag me in again!![:D]

Just for the sake of honesty,if you look at my lists you quoted, he made profit on Newsome, Fleck, Ekoku, Robins. I am sure you have you a list of losses to balance that out.

[/quote]

I just said that in your list ther was an overall loss and Chase underpinned nothing except demise by his player trading. Why don''t you make a list of the players bought well under Sir Arthur and sold by Chase for millions? Or players that came through our youth team and were sold by Chase for millions.

 

Why can''t anyone make a case for this claim that our success was underpinned by Chases player trading?

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

And still no examples of this successful player trading that underpinned our success.

[/quote]

Sutton £5m

Fox £2.25m

Gordon £1.25m

£8.5m profit  

 

Delia would be proud of that trading.

Under Delia''s regime:

Ashton £7.1m

Bellamy £5m+

Johnson  £2.5m?

Green  £1.5m + add ons

O''Neill  £750k

Joe Lewis  £400k + add ons, £200k??

Even under Delia''s regime there has been player trading and capital expenditure on Tangible Fixed Assets: Jarrold stand £10m (approx.), Community Stand £3m+ approx,  Ex LSE Land £2.75m approx.,  Ex City Council land 900k and dont forget the Joe Lewis Diner.

-----------------------------

JOE LEWIS DINER -: COME IN AND GET FED UP!

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="The Butler"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

This has got nothing to do with this thread. If you want to start a fresh thread about Robert Chase I''m quite happy to contribute and I reckon Tilly is too. The Butler had better take cover though[:O]

 

If you want to live Norwich City through the record books rather than through experience then good luck to you. Your assumtions that Chase was responsible for all those good times is so misplaced. Chase inherited a side that a few months earlier had won our only major trophy. His legacy was leaving us as relegation candidates to the Third Division. His player trading underpinned this demise.

 

 

[/quote]

Why had I better take cover? Are you trying to drag me in again!![:D]

Just for the sake of honesty,if you look at my lists you quoted, he made profit on Newsome, Fleck, Ekoku, Robins. I am sure you have you a list of losses to balance that out.

[/quote]

I just said that in your list ther was an overall loss and Chase underpinned nothing except demise by his player trading. Why don''t you make a list of the  * players bought well under Sir Arthur and sold by Chase for millions? Or players that came through our youth team and were sold by Chase for millions.  *

 

Why can''t anyone make a case for this claim that our success was underpinned by Chases player trading?

[/quote]

 

*  It must be obvious to anybody apart from a bog cleaners, bingo callers and turkeys from Norfolk that these deals were part of the player trading during the Chase years.

 

And it was the surplus from this overall player trading that allowed the club to pay its managers, coaches and players well and achieve those high league finishes, FA Cup semifinals and European matches that I assume that we''re all so proud of.

 

OTBC

 

 

 

 

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

 Chase then upset him by refusing to sign Dean Windass, instead trying to apppease disgruntled supporters by bringing back former favourite but by then, past his best Robert Fleck. [/quote]

.

NCFC had borrowed £2m to keep the squad together and for signings. 

Fleck part 2 and Rush were bought before the Windass saga.

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

All this makes me wonder why Gordon Bennett was placed in charge when Chase left and the first thing he had to do was lay off a large number of club staff and dismantle the Academy.

[/quote]

And for some perspective think of the debt servicing holiday (approx. £2.5m per year) that  we had last season and I think we have again this season. 

Thank you Mr. Bowkett

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Well now Butler,Bly certainly does not have you down as one of the "Chase Out Loonies" and in my humble view regards you as his bestest mate with his remark about previous NCISA regimes.Believe me i do READ all that you post and my thoughts are that you hold Chase in higher esteem than Delia.

[/quote]

Well at least Chase didnt take us down to the third tier of football for the first time in fifty years!

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Tangie"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

And still no examples of this successful player trading that underpinned our success.

[/quote]

Sutton £5m

Fox £2.25m

Gordon £1.25m

£8.5m profit  

 

Delia would be proud of that trading.

Under Delia''s regime:

Ashton £7.1m

Bellamy £5m+

Johnson  £2.5m?

Green  £1.5m + add ons

O''Neill  £750k

Joe Lewis  £400k + add ons, £200k??

Even under Delia''s regime there has been player trading and capital expenditure on Tangible Fixed Assets: Jarrold stand £10m (approx.), Community Stand £3m+ approx,  Ex LSE Land £2.75m approx.,  Ex City Council land 900k and dont forget the Joe Lewis Diner.

-----------------------------

JOE LEWIS DINER -: COME IN AND GET FED UP!

 

 

[/quote]

 

What has this got to do with Delia?

 

The only link I can see is that under Delia and Sir Arthur it could be argued that we made a push for promotion.

 

The profits on the players you mention, including some from what you call "under Delia", were not made from player trading. They were made from "flogging the family silver"

 

Tangie, if you want to discuss the merits (or not) of Robert Chase then start a thread. Go on, I dare you, and I''d be pleased to contribute.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Tangie"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

Well now Butler,Bly certainly does not have you down as one of the "Chase Out Loonies" and in my humble view regards you as his bestest mate with his remark about previous NCISA regimes.Believe me i do READ all that you post and my thoughts are that you hold Chase in higher esteem than Delia.

[/quote]

Well at least Chase didnt take us down to the third tier of football for the first time in fifty years!

[/quote]

Only because someone else saved his skin. We were well on the way!

 

Delia didn''t take over what Chase took over, she took over what he left behind. This whitewashing of what happened has gone on long enough. Chase was responsible for the greatest demise in the clubs history whilst lining his pockets on the way down.

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,740]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Tangie"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

Well now Butler,Bly certainly does not have you down as one of the "Chase Out Loonies" and in my humble view regards you as his bestest mate with his remark about previous NCISA regimes.Believe me i do READ all that you post and my thoughts are that you hold Chase in higher esteem than Delia.

[/quote]

Well at least Chase didnt take us down to the third tier of football for the first time in fifty years!

[/quote]

Only because someone else saved his skin. We were well on the way!

 

Delia didn''t take over what Chase took over, she took over what he left behind. This whitewashing of what happened has gone on long enough. Chase was responsible for the greatest demise in the clubs history whilst lining his pockets on the way down.

 

 

[/quote]

Spot on Nutty.He left behind short term unsecured loans that had Barclays Bank on the verge of knocking on his office door which was only prevented by the "fire sale" of Newsome and Ward.He left Gordon Bennett to lay off many back room staff.He caused the Academy to be dismantled to such an extent that we are only now recovering from it.

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Tangie"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

And still no examples of this successful player trading that underpinned our success.

[/quote]

Sutton £5m

Fox £2.25m

Gordon £1.25m

£8.5m profit  

 

Delia would be proud of that trading.

Under Delia''s regime:

Ashton £7.1m

Bellamy £5m+

Johnson  £2.5m?

Green  £1.5m + add ons

O''Neill  £750k

Joe Lewis  £400k + add ons, £200k??

Even under Delia''s regime there has been player trading and capital expenditure on Tangible Fixed Assets: Jarrold stand £10m (approx.), Community Stand £3m+ approx,  Ex LSE Land £2.75m approx.,  Ex City Council land 900k and dont forget the Joe Lewis Diner.

-----------------------------

JOE LEWIS DINER -: COME IN AND GET FED UP!

 

 

[/quote]

What has this got to do with Delia?

[/quote]

I would have thought it was obvious Nutty.

Players were traded / sold under Chase and Delia''s regime

Money was spent on Tangible Fixed Assets under Chase and the Delia regime.  Except that under the Chase regime there was an insurnace claim re the old Main Stand and a £2m grant regarding the new Barclay stand.

Funny how most of the flak seems to be aimed at Chase.

BTW. Chase never took us to the third tier of football

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Tangie"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

Well now Butler,Bly certainly does not have you down as one of the "Chase Out Loonies" and in my humble view regards you as his bestest mate with his remark about previous NCISA regimes.Believe me i do READ all that you post and my thoughts are that you hold Chase in higher esteem than Delia.

[/quote]

Well at least Chase didnt take us down to the third tier of football for the first time in fifty years!

[/quote]

Only because someone else saved his skin. We were well on the way!

 

Delia didn''t take over what Chase took over, she took over what he left behind. This whitewashing of what happened has gone on long enough. Chase was responsible for the greatest demise in the clubs history whilst lining his pockets on the way down.

 

 

[/quote]

Spot on Nutty.He left behind short term unsecured loans that had Barclays Bank on the verge of knocking on his office door which was only prevented by the "fire sale" of Newsome and Ward.He left Gordon Bennett to lay off many back room staff.He caused the Academy to be dismantled to such an extent that we are only now recovering from it.

[/quote]

In those days NCFC didnt have access to long term Loan Notes so yes the £2m that I referred to early in order to keep the squad toghether and give O''Neill about £1m of transfer funds did in the end cause us some problems BUT at least Chase had a go at trying to get us promoted again at the first attempt.

I note you haven''t commented upon our £2.5m debt servicing holiday that Mr Bowkett managed to negotiate for NCFC last season and I believe has been secured for this season too. Where do you think the club woukl have been if we had been required to service the debt last season?

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Chase was responsible for the greatest demise in the clubs history

[/quote]

I thought that was the relegation to the third tier of football in 50 years under somebody else''s regime?

[nutty nigel 7,533]

Chase no way had a go at getting back up first go Tangie. Why do you put so much store behind the signings of Fleck and Rush? We made a much bigger effort in 2005. I doubt very much if Flecky was top of the shopping list. There was more likely other reasons behind his return. Chase didn''t have the money but that was his own fault. So many times under Chase we could have made a push and didn''t.

 

Sir Arthur knew how to do it.

 

 

 

 

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

In those days NCFC didnt have access to long term Loan Notes so yes the £2m that I referred to early in order to keep the squad toghether and give O''Neill about £1m of transfer funds did in the end cause us some problems BUT at least Chase had a go at trying to get us promoted again at the first attempt.

 

 [/quote]

 

---

 

But - and this is getting way off-topic - whose fault was that? It is not as if long-term debt was invented after Chase left. It''s being around for the odd century. You may know differently but I can''t think of a good reason why Chase hadn''t arranged long-term debt instead of the short-term debt that nearly took us under.

 

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Tangie"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Chase was responsible for the greatest demise in the clubs history

[/quote]

I thought that was the relegation to the third tier of football in 50 years under somebody else''s regime?

[/quote]

Tangie'' you have to consider the drop before you can call our greatest demise the relegation to Division Three. Our demise under Chase was greater than any we have had.

 

When Chase left we were 16th in Division Two and plummeting at an alarming rate. Our lowest position since was 1st in the Third Division. Not such a demise as you would have us believe.

 

I really don''t get this white washing of Chase.

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Chase no way had a go at getting back up first go Tangie.

[/quote]

 

Nutty - why do you deny the fact that £2m was borrowed from the bank. Is that because it destroys the blinkered view that some of you have re Chase?

As for Sir Arthur South''s period as Chairman, may i suggest you have a look at the clubs financial position when Chase took over as a result of a mass board resignation.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I really don''t get this white washing of Chase.

[/quote]

I dont get this denial that players have been sold during the Delia regime and money has been spent on Tangible Fixed Assets too.

 

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

But - and this is getting way off-topic - whose fault was that? It is not as if long-term debt was invented after Chase left. It''s being around for the odd century. You may know differently but I can''t think of a good reason why Chase hadn''t arranged long-term debt instead of the short-term debt that nearly took us under.

 

[/quote]

But long term debt didnt seem to be available to football clubs during our period in The Premiership.  However I do criticise the Chase regime for not raising money via a share issue after the season we finished 3rd. 

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Tangie"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I really don''t get this white washing of Chase.

[/quote]

I dont get this denial that players have been sold during the Delia regime and money has been spent on Tangible Fixed Assets too.

 

[/quote]

You see this thread isn''t about Delia. It could have been but the opening poster didn''t recognise the push in 2003.

 

I don''t see anyone denying that players have been sold during the Delia regime. That''s always the answer from you guys when Chase is criticised. One thing I do know is that Delia didn''t line her pockets at the same time.

 

Start that thread about Chase Tangie... you know you want to[Y]

 

 

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

But - and this is getting way off-topic - whose fault was that? It is not as if long-term debt was invented after Chase left. It''s being around for the odd century. You may know differently but I can''t think of a good reason why Chase hadn''t arranged long-term debt instead of the short-term debt that nearly took us under.

 

[/quote]

But long term debt didnt seem to be available to football clubs during our period in The Premiership.  However I do criticise the Chase regime for not raising money via a share issue after the season we finished 3rd. 

[/quote]

 

---

 

Tangible, I''m not saying you''re wrong about that but I don''t see why that should have been the case generally. We are talking about multi-million pound businesses with comparitively predicatable income streams. I would be surprised if the majority of other top clubs had been on such risky short-term debt at that time. I suspect it was more a case of Chase deciding to do it that way.

 

As to a share issue, I agree, but it was about then he was talking about listing the company, and raising money that way. And by the time he dropped that idea perhaps the opportunity for an unlisted share issue had passed.

 

All water under the bridge now.

[Drazen Muzinic 1,445]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Tangie"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Chase was responsible for the greatest demise in the clubs history

[/quote]

I thought that was the relegation to the third tier of football in 50 years under somebody else''s regime?

[/quote]

Tangie'' you have to consider the drop before you can call our greatest demise the relegation to Division Three. Our demise under Chase was greater than any we have had.

 

When Chase left we were 16th in Division Two and plummeting at an alarming rate. Our lowest position since was 1st in the Third Division. Not such a demise as you would have us believe.

 

I really don''t get this white washing of Chase.

 

[/quote]

 

Totally agree Nutty.

 

Chase was purely involved in NCFC for the interests of Robert Chase and Robert Chase alone.

 

Yes he was at the helm for the best modern-era period in the club''s history but this was nothing to do with his ability as Club Chairman and there was a large slice of luck involved.

 

The best example of this - and no disrespect intended to either Mike Walker or the players at the time - was at the start of the 92-93 campaign. It was clear that the Premier League would become a huge cash cow (the serious sports press and Football League''s concerns were well-voiced at the time) and had to be taken seriously.

 

Mr Chase - chose a cheap option to fill the vacant managers position in Mike Walker and the only players brought in over the summer were Mark Robins (can''t remember the fee) and a free, 33 year old Gary Megson nearing the end of his career.

 

The season before we were poor in the league (finished about 18th-19th from memory) and there were real concerns we would struggle.

 

As it transpired, Walker produced miracles with a team made up in the main from poor performers from the previous season (sound familiar?). This was why the Arsenal turnaround on the first day of the season is so well remembered - not just the score but the background to it as well.

 

This staved off the concerns about Chase for another season until he handled the Walker to Everton debacle badly and then normal service was resumed - a succession of cheap, fledgling managers and selling any players showing any promise for a fat profit. It was always money before success on the pitch.

 

He had 1 last roll of the dice with O''Neill and history tells us how badly that was handled too - another issue about money chasing away the best chance we had of bouncing back to the top tier - all within half a season.

 

We were second after a great victory at Watford about 20 games into the season (I was there - about November/December time I think), promptly pi55ed O''Neill off so he left a couple of games later and manged to win about 5 of the remaining games that season finishing 16th/17th.

 

The real salt added to this wound was the subsequent sustained success Leicester had under O''Neill - thank you Mr Chase for giving us the chance to see what we could''ve won. (I always liked Bullseye!)

 

When he eventually went, the Palace away game on the last day of the 95-96 season became a Chase Out party such was the joy felt that this parasite and leech had finally gone. David Hopkin helped the mood with a fantastic Og from a bullet header - was this also the last time we won at Palarse?

 

I stood on those naff old wooden seats that day at Selhurst Park, and through the misery of the slow and agonising slide from a respected, sometimes feared footballing team to a total shambles and I know how high the feelings were running at the time so you will NEVER convince me that Chase knew what he was doing - however much whitewash you use!

 

PS - we never had all the transfer profit he made accounted for either did we?

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I really don''t get this white washing of Chase.

[/quote]

I dont get this denial that players have been sold during the Delia regime and money has been spent on Tangible Fixed Assets too.

 

 

[/quote]

I was under the impression that the new board was quite happy with many of the investments the old board had made.

 

Start that thread about Delia Tangie... you know you want to...[Y]

 

 

[Duncan Edwards 0]

This NCISA lot don''t need a delia thread, Crafty has made it quite clear on their own (quiet) site what their opinion is on our majority shareholders. How weird that the group set up to oust Chase, now gather round to defend him. At the same time they try to, with covert tactics, attempt to attack the current regime to protect the legacy of the fat man of halvergate.

Perhaps someone from ncisa, butler, beauseant, could come on here and tell us how the raising cash for shares went? The transfer window is nearly closed after all..

[TIL 1010 4,740]

I never realised how many Chase luvees i was surrounded by during my time on the Committee!!!![:O]

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

Nutty et al.,

I note you haven''t commented upon our £2.5m debt servicing holiday that Mr Bowkett managed to negotiate for NCFC last season and I believe has been secured for this season too. Where do you think the club woukl have been if we had been required to service the debt last season?

Stuck for words are we?

 

 

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"]

Nutty et al.,

I note you haven''t commented upon our £2.5m debt servicing holiday that Mr Bowkett managed to negotiate for NCFC last season and I believe has been secured for this season too. Where do you think the club woukl have been if we had been required to service the debt last season?

Stuck for words are we?

 

 

[/quote]

Tangy. I don''t believe for one minute that administration is an option where Delia is concerned and therefore, she would have dipped in her handbag for another couple of million if she had to.

 

Why, do you think, Chase didn''t do that instead of selling Ward and Newsome?