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lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel)

We have massively over achieved!

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When you look at our squad on paper it looks very weak in places. We have definately been overachieving this season and this has got people living in a dreamland. Last night im kind of glad people have been brought down to earth! The main reasons for overachieving this season is our fearless attitutde, teamwork and work rate which all have been very impressive, The problem is complacency set in last night which in turn destroyed our work rate. With this work rate gone the teamwork just didnt happen.

It was obvious to me for the first time this season the players fullly expected to pick up the three points by just turning up. I am However very confident that this kind of lacklustre display will happen very rarely over the course of the season and it will provide not just the team but PL the wake up call needed. I do still remain very concered with players such as Lappin, R.Martin & Smith who were just awfull last night.

Anyway back to the point before we start all the booing and letting negativity set in we need to remember that anything above 22nd this season is an achievement! We are a good three or four players away from a serious challenge at the top end, so please get real!

 

 

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Usual negative crap from you Lincoln....I usually stop reading your posts after the first paragraph nowadays mate through fear of bringing on suicide.

Lighten up....and ask yourself if someone would''ve said to you 5th after 12 games, would you of taken that? Judging by the above I would probably say ''yes you would''

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I didn''t think anybody was awful last night. Maybe Askou at times but I think he was shown up rather than awful. Were they complacent? I guess it could be viewed that way or it could be viewed that they couldn''t be bothered. But we know these players and we know those two descriptions would hardly be fair. But were they knackered? Had they not recovered from such a hard game on Saturday? The diamond saps the energy of a lot of players and surprise surprise those players looked a little off the pace last night.

 

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[quote user="Give Peas a Chance "]Usual negative crap from you Lincoln....I usually stop reading your posts after the first paragraph nowadays mate through fear of bringing on suicide. Lighten up....and ask yourself if someone would''ve said to you 5th after 12 games, would you of taken that? Judging by the above I would probably say ''yes you would''[/quote]

All in all i thought it to be quite positive, claiming to be confident last night was just a one off. Thats not being negative. Suggesting that Lappin R.Martin & Smith were awful last night is Negative but it is a very true statement! Of cause id have bitten someones hand of to be in the position were in but im also realistic. The first season after promotion from a lower league the priority is survival! Im pointing out that people have created crazy high expectations from a squad that has so far has over acheived due to the brilliant management, teamwork and workrate! Tiredness cannot be blamed, Palace were in the same boat there! We were just complacent.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I didn''t think anybody was awful last night. Maybe Askou at times but I think he was shown up rather than awful. Were they complacent? I guess it could be viewed that way or it could be viewed that they couldn''t be bothered. But we know these players and we know those two descriptions would hardly be fair. But were they knackered? Had they not recovered from such a hard game on Saturday? The diamond saps the energy of a lot of players and surprise surprise those players looked a little off the pace last night.

 

[/quote]

 

2nd Half bar Ruddy and Bennet they were all awfull!

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]

Tiredness cannot be blamed, Palace were in the same boat there! We were just complacent.

[/quote]

You may not be able to blame tiredness but others can. If you believe Palace were in the same boat again that''s your opinion but hardly fact. As is complacency. In your opinion were we complacent in the first half or did your complacency kick in at about the same time as my tiredness?

Tiredness was an issue for me because of our reliance on the diamond and the energy sapping roles certain players have in that system. To expect that twice in 4 days after a very hard game away to the divisions top side was probably a bit much. The alternative was to change the system because the fresher players who could have started are not suited to the diamond. To say that may have been a better option can only be made with huge dollops of hindsight.

I can explain my tiredness can you explain your complacency> What caused it? The manager? Or maybe dishonest players?

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

I didn''t think anybody was awful last night. Maybe Askou at times but I think he was shown up rather than awful. Were they complacent? I guess it could be viewed that way or it could be viewed that they couldn''t be bothered. But we know these players and we know those two descriptions would hardly be fair. But were they knackered? Had they not recovered from such a hard game on Saturday? The diamond saps the energy of a lot of players and surprise surprise those players looked a little off the pace last night.

 

[/quote]Don''t you think Lappin was awful last night Nutty? Apart from the shot he had cleared off the line and the deflected cross for the goal I can barely remember him getting anything right, he gave the ball away on countless occasions and somehow managed to end up in a heap on the floor just after we scored which would have led to a Palace equaliser were it not for a brilliant last ditch tackle. Crofts was the only one to come out of the game with any credit and the rest of them rated somewhere between average and awfull imo.

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Not really kdncfc. I thought he was knackered by half-time. But I think Wes and Korey were too. Crofts was superb again and managed to keep going. But as a unit our midfield didn''t function after half-time. Lambert made changes but that meant a change in system and we totally lost the initiative. By the end we just had a collection of players on the pitch and no team whatsoever.

I thought Askou was pretty awful mind. But I often did when he played before.

If last night proved anything perhaps it was that we need a workable plan B for when we need to rotate players and freshen up a tired team.

 

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]

When you look at our squad on paper it looks very weak in places. We have definately been overachieving this season and this has got people living in a dreamland. Last night im kind of glad people have been brought down to earth! The main reasons for overachieving this season is our fearless attitutde, teamwork and work rate which all have been very impressive, The problem is complacency set in last night which in turn destroyed our work rate. With this work rate gone the teamwork just didnt happen.

It was obvious to me for the first time this season the players fullly expected to pick up the three points by just turning up. I am However very confident that this kind of lacklustre display will happen very rarely over the course of the season and it will provide not just the team but PL the wake up call needed. I do still remain very concered with players such as Lappin, R.Martin & Smith who were just awfull last night.

Anyway back to the point before we start all the booing and letting negativity set in we need to remember that anything above 22nd this season is an achievement! We are a good three or four players away from a serious challenge at the top end, so please get real!

 

 

[/quote]

I presume you are talking about Korey Smith not Steven?  Because yes I agree K.Smith was pretty poor.  However how on earth can you still be ''very concerend'' about him?  He has been awesome all season and he has one bad game and now suddenly your worried he isn''t good enough!  Don''t be silly.

This was a complete over reaction to one defeat.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not really kdncfc. I thought he was knackered by half-time. But I think Wes and Korey were too. Crofts was superb again and managed to keep going. But as a unit our midfield didn''t function after half-time. Lambert made changes but that meant a change in system and we totally lost the initiative. By the end we just had a collection of players on the pitch and no team whatsoever.

I thought Askou was pretty awful mind. But I often did when he played before.

If last night proved anything perhaps it was that we need a workable plan B for when we need to rotate players and freshen up a tired team.

 

[/quote]I think if a young footballer is knackered by half time serious questions need to be asked about their fitness, Palace had a tough game on Saturday and apart from 36 year old Davids they had far more of a spring in their step all night. I am in total agreement with you about Askou and I saw enough last night to reinforce my opinion that he is not good enough for this division.

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not really kdncfc. I thought he was knackered by half-time. But I think Wes and Korey were too. Crofts was superb again and managed to keep going. But as a unit our midfield didn''t function after half-time. Lambert made changes but that meant a change in system and we totally lost the initiative. By the end we just had a collection of players on the pitch and no team whatsoever.

I thought Askou was pretty awful mind. But I often did when he played before.

If last night proved anything perhaps it was that we need a workable plan B for when we need to rotate players and freshen up a tired team.

 

[/quote]
I think if a young footballer is knackered by half time serious questions need to be asked about their fitness, Palace had a tough game on Saturday and apart from 36 year old Davids they had far more of a spring in their step all night. I am in total agreement with you about Askou and I saw enough last night to reinforce my opinion that he is not good enough for this division.
[/quote]

With respect I think you have to consider their role in the side and how much energy they have to expend. But different opinions is what makes this board busy. If it wasn''t tiredness what did you put it down to?

 

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I thought several of the players were awfull last night and I can''t see how you can blame tiredness Nutty. They are professional footballers, they only train for a few hours each day and playing for 90 mins twice in a week should be well within their means.

We lost because Wardy and Drury''s experience was missed, several players were below par and we didn''t have 2 men on the posts for the corners. Also thought us fans were very quiet for some reason and that probably didn''t help either.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not really kdncfc. I thought he was knackered by half-time. But I think Wes and Korey were too. Crofts was superb again and managed to keep going. But as a unit our midfield didn''t function after half-time. Lambert made changes but that meant a change in system and we totally lost the initiative. By the end we just had a collection of players on the pitch and no team whatsoever.

I thought Askou was pretty awful mind. But I often did when he played before.

If last night proved anything perhaps it was that we need a workable plan B for when we need to rotate players and freshen up a tired team.

 

[/quote]I think if a young footballer is knackered by half time serious questions need to be asked about their fitness, Palace had a tough game on Saturday and apart from 36 year old Davids they had far more of a spring in their step all night. I am in total agreement with you about Askou and I saw enough last night to reinforce my opinion that he is not good enough for this division.[/quote]

With respect I think you have to consider their role in the side and how much energy they have to expend. But different opinions is what makes this board busy. If it wasn''t tiredness what did you put it down to?

 

[/quote]Lappin is another who isn''t good enough imo. he may deliver a few decent balls into the box but far to often he doesn''t clear the first man and he simply doesn''t deliver often enough for me. Crofts game is based around energy and he was still putting himself about as much as he has any game this season and for me no footballer should be tired so early in the season unless there is some kind of fitness issue we don''t know about.

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[quote user="cityangel"]

I thought several of the players were awfull last night and I can''t see how you can blame tiredness Nutty. They are professional footballers, they only train for a few hours each day and playing for 90 mins twice in a week should be well within their means.

We lost because Wardy and Drury''s experience was missed, several players were below par and we didn''t have 2 men on the posts for the corners. Also thought us fans were very quiet for some reason and that probably didn''t help either.

[/quote]Agree about the fans CA, I thought the lack of noise was embarrassing and even at the start there seemed to be very little enthusiasm from the terraces.

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This is the sort of naive over expectation that saw the loss of our greatest ever Chairman Robert Chase.....Bloody ridiculous.

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[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not really kdncfc. I thought he was knackered by half-time. But I think Wes and Korey were too. Crofts was superb again and managed to keep going. But as a unit our midfield didn''t function after half-time. Lambert made changes but that meant a change in system and we totally lost the initiative. By the end we just had a collection of players on the pitch and no team whatsoever.

I thought Askou was pretty awful mind. But I often did when he played before.

If last night proved anything perhaps it was that we need a workable plan B for when we need to rotate players and freshen up a tired team.

 

[/quote]
I think if a young footballer is knackered by half time serious questions need to be asked about their fitness, Palace had a tough game on Saturday and apart from 36 year old Davids they had far more of a spring in their step all night. I am in total agreement with you about Askou and I saw enough last night to reinforce my opinion that he is not good enough for this division.
[/quote]

With respect I think you have to consider their role in the side and how much energy they have to expend. But different opinions is what makes this board busy. If it wasn''t tiredness what did you put it down to?

 

[/quote]
Lappin is another who isn''t good enough imo. he may deliver a few decent balls into the box but far to often he doesn''t clear the first man and he simply doesn''t deliver often enough for me. Crofts game is based around energy and he was still putting himself about as much as he has any game this season and for me no footballer should be tired so early in the season unless there is some kind of fitness issue we don''t know about.
[/quote]

The same personnel worked extremely hard and got an excellent point at QPR 4 days previously. The level of performance was there again for the first 45 minutes last night. The second half performance I put down to tiredness. The slightest drop in energy can make a huge difference in todays game. Physical tiredness and mental tiredness. This doesn''t mean a player isn''t fit. I would think Lappin is as physically fit as he can be.

But if it wasn''t tiredness what was it that affected Lappin''s performance last night. If he isn''t good enough then he wasn''t good enough at QPR. We all know that if Surman was fit lappin probably wouldn''t be playing. But with Surman being injured who would you have played in his place?

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Not really kdncfc. I thought he was knackered by half-time. But I think Wes and Korey were too. Crofts was superb again and managed to keep going. But as a unit our midfield didn''t function after half-time. Lambert made changes but that meant a change in system and we totally lost the initiative. By the end we just had a collection of players on the pitch and no team whatsoever.

I thought Askou was pretty awful mind. But I often did when he played before.

If last night proved anything perhaps it was that we need a workable plan B for when we need to rotate players and freshen up a tired team.

 

[/quote]I think if a young footballer is knackered by half time serious questions need to be asked about their fitness, Palace had a tough game on Saturday and apart from 36 year old Davids they had far more of a spring in their step all night. I am in total agreement with you about Askou and I saw enough last night to reinforce my opinion that he is not good enough for this division.[/quote]

With respect I think you have to consider their role in the side and how much energy they have to expend. But different opinions is what makes this board busy. If it wasn''t tiredness what did you put it down to?

 

[/quote]Lappin is another who isn''t good enough imo. he may deliver a few decent balls into the box but far to often he doesn''t clear the first man and he simply doesn''t deliver often enough for me. Crofts game is based around energy and he was still putting himself about as much as he has any game this season and for me no footballer should be tired so early in the season unless there is some kind of fitness issue we don''t know about.[/quote]

The same personnel worked extremely hard and got an excellent point at QPR 4 days previously. The level of performance was there again for the first 45 minutes last night. The second half performance I put down to tiredness. The slightest drop in energy can make a huge difference in todays game. Physical tiredness and mental tiredness. This doesn''t mean a player isn''t fit. I would think Lappin is as physically fit as he can be.

But if it wasn''t tiredness what was it that affected Lappin''s performance last night. If he isn''t good enough then he wasn''t good enough at QPR. We all know that if Surman was fit lappin probably wouldn''t be playing. But with Surman being injured who would you have played in his place?

 

[/quote]In reality we don''t really have many other options at the moment and you rightly say that Lappin would be on the bench if Surman was fit. Lappin is ok on his day but imo he isn''t consistently good enough for this league,  he can do a job but his delivery is not as good as Surmans. It didn''t seem to affect the Palace players who had an equally tough game against Millwall on Saturday, to be fair he wasn''t the only one but his sloppiness in possesion stood out to me more than anyone last night.

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Lincoln, kdncfc and City Angel all tell me I can''t blame fatigue for last nights defeat but I still do. That''s what I think and none of you have convinced me otherwise.

Lincoln and kdncfc think Palace were in the same boat with regards to fatigue and I disagree. We had a very hard game away to QPR where we had to be at our best mentally and physically for the whole game to get a result. That''s a very different kettle of fish to losing at home to Millwall. In fact if you look at Saturdays results you will see that six of the Championship sides who got a result away from home on Saturday followed up with a home defeat last night. The Championship is a very competetive league and there''s little difference between the teams. The slightest little advantage can tip the balance. In our relegation season we drew 3-3 at Wolves who were top of the league on a Tuesday night match after we had an extra day off having played the previous Friday night when Wolves played the Saturday.

City Angel says I can''t blame tiredness because several players were below par. I agree they were below par but I put it down to fatigue. If it wasn''t tiredness then what caused them to be below par?

I might be wrong, it''s just my opinion, but you guys are telling me I''m wrong without offering an alternative explaination.

 

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]This is the sort of naive over expectation that saw the loss of our greatest ever Chairman Robert Chase.....

Bloody ridiculous.
[/quote]

The expression " Bird Brain" comes to mind.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]R.Martin & Smith who were just awfull last night.

 

[/quote]Lol. Thought the ridiculous R.Martin bashing had ended, but no, the parallel games that some people are watching still exist. I''ll pretent to care..why was he just awful?

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As is often the case Nutty, I think your explanation is the most likely one.I do get a bit peed off with the idea that footballers should be able to play any number of games a week & not be affected. I used to train pretty hard & be fit when I was younger, but I was always knackered for at least a day or two after Sunday football; I wasn''t very good but I used to run myself into the ground. When I was tired I could still run, but any skill I did possess disappeared.If you consider the level of competition that exists to become a professional, then everything becomes that much more intense. There won''t be many who can get away without giving their all in every game - & as Nutty says, the diamond takes more out of players than other formations.  So I reckon most of them will still be feeling the effects for a fair few days after the game.I also notice there''s a thread above saying that our stats. are better for Saturdays than Tuesdays, which seems to back this argument up.

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[quote user="Persnickety²"][quote user="lincoln canary"]

R.Martin & Smith who were just awfull last night.

 

[/quote]

Lol. Thought the ridiculous R.Martin bashing had ended, but no, the parallel games that some people are watching still exist.

I''ll pretent to care..why was he just awful?

 

Couldnt pass, Constantly slowed play dwon when he had the oppurtunity to bomb forward and had a touch like a rapist when running with the ball. His delivery never cleared the 1st man or caused any danger, will that do? He is so average it is untrue.

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he may be average but is solid and very rarely puts a foot wrong....

If you''re looking for someone to blame you can only look towards Askou who for whatever reason is not good enough + S Smith is a bit off the pace at the minute.

The problem now is we have had a few injuries and those players that are coming in are League One standard - had we had better luck on the injury front we may of been higher in the table.

Having said that though we are still 5th and if someone had said to me after 12 games this is where we''d be then I would''ve bit their arm off.

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I don''t buy a lot of this; I don''t believe that we have massively over achieved. We are at the end of October and we are 1/4 of the way through the season, enough games have elapsed to show that we are genuine top 10 contenders, if not top 6. I agree with Nutty about the formation leading to tiredness for certain players due to what they are asked to do. That, will worry me slightly when the pitches deteriorate throughout winter.

Don''t like to single out individual players, but will anyway!Stephen Smith was rather poor and certainly did not improve as the game went on...

 

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]This is the sort of naive over expectation that saw the loss of our greatest ever Chairman Robert Chase.....Bloody ridiculous.[/quote]

The expression " Bird Brain" comes to mind.

[/quote]Have you noticed any lack of sensitivity since you had your helmet removed?

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[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Cluckbert Chase"]This is the sort of naive over expectation that saw the loss of our greatest ever Chairman Robert Chase.....Bloody ridiculous.[/quote]

The expression " Bird Brain" comes to mind.

[/quote]Have you noticed any lack of sensitivity since you had your helmet removed?[/quote]*snigger*

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