Some fans know whats going on

[Bury Yellow 2]

Many thanks for that very good explanation Felixfan.

No need for ''Fans Eye'' to apologise in my view. He was spot on in his judgement of the situation as it stands.

Whilst it doesn''t bother me that they consulted with the SCG, but as they have, surely they should, or intend to take, soundings from a wider base of the ''best supporters in the world'' hic.

Perhaps they thought that was one group where they would get the answer that they wanted - very New Labour

[Felixfan 53]

Bury Yellow

Thanks for that. The whole thing is very frustrating, it may be better if after such a meeting the S.C.G. were to issue a statement but even then it may for all sorts of reasons have to be so sanitised as to be meaningless. I suppose at least it would prompt further debate and enable fans to see that we were making their points. I will raise it at the next meeting.

[Mr.Carrow 378]

Sxcanaree, i haven`t really kept up with this thread but to be honest all this "why did they tell them and not us" smacks of egos and jealosy to me......

I am just posting to comment on the last paragraph of point 3 where you state that Cullum has made no bid for the club and ask "where do the "delia out" brigade think she can sell her shares to".  Cullum has said that he doesn`t "want to buy Delias` shares" but that he wants "a majority stake for the £20m" and that the money is for new players.  The only deal which fits this criteria is the issue of £20m worth of new shares, not a total buy-out of the existing share-holders.  I`m not having a pop, just pointing out that there are other avenues open to getting this funding into the club and that the possibility of compromise is (or "should be"....) there.

[TheCardinal 0]

To be honest, everyone in the world could be given secret information and all I would care about is us getting the finances to get the right players in to get the best eleven on the pitch come August as we possibly can.

[jetstream 0]

"To Fans Eye who is the author of the article I would comment:

Point 1 - I appreciate your article is a personal opinion however whilst I do not live in Norfolk I was there yesterday and saw the paper itself - How often is your comment given a front page splash on the paper? The Front page implies that your article is full of news and not a personal view. How often does the paper devote a full page to your article? If the answer to these questions is "this is the first time" Archant have taken you for a fool to fuel the fans of their own fire and if you do not have the eye for that then I am sorry for you.

sxcanaree - it wasn''t clear to me that this had made the front page of the EDP.

It''s worth noting that Adam Aiken is not some ''ordinary fan'' writing this stuff though, he''s the Deputy Business Editor of....wait for it...the EDP.

(The fact that is is sub-titled "The View From the Stands" is obviously by the by and in no way meant to be misleading).

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="jetstream"]

It''s worth noting that Adam Aiken is not some ''ordinary fan'' writing this stuff though, he''s the Deputy Business Editor of....wait for it...the EDP.

(The fact that is is sub-titled "The View From the Stands" is obviously by the by and in no way meant to be misleading).[/quote]He is an NCFC fan who is a Journalist for the newspaper. However as with Richard Balls I don''t think he writes for the sport section apart from said column. The paper''s stance on Worthy differed to both his and Balls, so I don''t feel they are being partisan.

[William Darby 0]

So let me get this straight. The Club ''hand picks'' the members of The SCGIn theory the The SCG must give the answers to the Club, which The Club most want to hear.  So in effect they are no more than Doncaster''s puppets.  He says "Quiet" they say "Yes boss".  He says "spin the rest of the supporters bullshiite". They say "Yes Boss".

[TheCardinal 0]

[quote user="Thirst Wizard"]So let me get this straight. The Club ''hand picks'' the members of The SCGIn theory the The SCG must give the answers to the Club, which The Club most want to hear.  So in effect they are no more than Doncaster''s puppets.  He says "Quiet" they say "Yes boss".  He says "spin the rest of the supporters bullshiite". They say "Yes Boss".[/quote]No. The club pick the SCG from among applicants. The position for which they never advertise.

[jetstream 0]

No Thirst Wizard, you haven''t got it straight at all - in fact, the complete opposite - can I suggest you read Felixfan''s post again and digest it?

[Bury Yellow 2]

Just a small point Jetstream but you mention you don''t live in Norfolk but your location states Norwich. Is this Norwich USA and you are visiting the area on holiday?

Absolutely no sarcasm intended as i''m sure we all want what''s best for our club. Just thought i would ask as I find it interesting there seems to be a disproportionate number of pro Delia contributors who live many miles from the fair city.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="jetstream"]No Thirst Wizard, you haven''t got it straight at all - in fact, the complete opposite - can I suggest you read Felixfan''s post again and digest it?[/quote]He''s just one person. He may have all the morals and good intentions.  But at the end of the day the rest who participate maybe puppets and arse lickers, or just like hearing the sound of their own voice, or even likes the sitting in these ''talking shops'' as it makes their head swell.  I dunno.  It''s okay getting these people together to discuss the price of crisps and coke,  but having a meeting regarding a possible take over with a bunch of non elected ''persons'' suck IMO.

[jetstream 0]

Bury

It''s sxcanaree who lives outside of Norfolk

I live in Norwich

I would not describe myself as pro-Delia at all. For the record, I think the current board have done some great things off the field but do not have the money to take things forward on the field.

I welcome Cullum''s interest/investment but we need to question him as much as anyone else coming into the Club and I''m a little fed up with the manner the negotiations are being conducted in public.

Mind you, the Club''s silence this week has been wrong - and they have been very weasly-worded about potential investors over the last few years when it is clear that there ARE people out there who fit the bill.

[trev 0]

That would have some measure of credence, if they paid us. Which they don''t.

I go along for two reasons

1.Because I want to help the football club make decisions. They tell us stuff, we have a debate, it helps the club''s senior management. Any suggestion that we spin anything to anyone is a bit worrying. Happy to meet anyone with such concerns and be interrogated until either you are happy that this isn''t the case, or we agree to disagree!

2. Because I want to put something into the football club and (in lieu of winning the lottery) I do this by helping on the pricing group, young supporters group and SCG recruitment.

The club runs the SCG for 2 similar reasons I think

1. Because it wants it''s decision making process to be challenged from a fans perspective and it does this amongst many other means, by running an SCG.

2. Because it wants things doing and if these can be done through the involvement and goodwill of fans, rather than by paying people then great!

[sxcanaree 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Sxcanaree, i haven`t really kept up with this thread but to be honest all this "why did they tell them and not us" smacks of egos and jealosy to me......

I am just posting to comment on the last paragraph of point 3 where you state that Cullum has made no bid for the club and ask "where do the "delia out" brigade think she can sell her shares to".  Cullum has said that he doesn`t "want to buy Delias` shares" but that he wants "a majority stake for the £20m" and that the money is for new players.  The only deal which fits this criteria is the issue of £20m worth of new shares, not a total buy-out of the existing share-holders.  I`m not having a pop, just pointing out that there are other avenues open to getting this funding into the club and that the possibility of compromise is (or "should be"....) there.

[/quote]

I am not an expert on these things but issuing new shares is not easy:

As I understand it from the threads on the solvency or otherwise of the club it appears that the "share value" has to be tied to the net asset value - currently that is £16m - which is where the £30 per share comes in.  There are £1m of unallocated shares and £15m issued.

For the capital to be increased to £36m by the addition of new shares the club has to seek shareholder approval - by reason of an EGM which describes why they are doing this and the intention of the action anyone who has shares in HBOS has seen the mountain of paperwork they have issued lately in order to seek new investment. - Theoretically this could be defeated but as the company is controlled by a single joint shareholder therefore if recommended by the board this would go through.

Once added to the share capital of the Company the Company can offer these shares to investors but the "value" will be tied to the net asset value and, as the value of players are not included in the accounts, the use of the capital to buy players will decrease the individual share price to half of the price paid (i.e. each share would now be worth £15) so the new investors have to recognise that they are buying something for £30 which is only worth £15 and the existing investors who may have only paid £25 will also lose 40% of the value of their shares.

If the £20m is sold to a single investor then as £20m/£36m is more than 30% of the share capital then they have to make an offer to buy 100% so financing needs to be available to cover the possibility that you have to buy an additional £15m of shares.

If any investor is serious about investment then there will be ways of doing this by nominee shareholdings and the like and because of the way Towergate has grown Peter Cullum should either know or employ people that know the way to do this so the ball is well and truly in his court over this.

The point I was making is that until there is an offer all there is is spin and Archant are perpetuating this.

 

[Mr.Carrow 378]

Sxcanaree, yes it`s probably as complicated as that- if not more so.  The "obligation to buy the entire share capital if the stake goes over 30%" has been done to death on other threads, but even that isn`t straightforward as Delia and MWJ have over 60% so one of them must hold over 30%.  Does this obligation apply to a new share issue that shareholders have approved and accepted?  I`m not sure.

When you look at Cullums` record, lets face it, he MUST have a scheme in mind to obtain majority control without buying Delia out allowing the money to go into the transfer pot.  We really don`t know for sure, but if he hasn`t then he`s being a reckless trouble-maker and that doesn`t fit in with his respected image- and would basically shatter it.  I don`t think so.

Also you state that "the ball is well and truely in his court over this".  If he has proposed such a deal as highlighted above i would suggest that the ball is in the boards` court- either get back round the table and iron out the problems for the good of the club, or tell us what is so dreadful about Cullum and what he`s offering.  If they are saying "total buy-out or nothing" then they are not prepared to compromise, and Cullum could well just simply walk away with the club in turmoil.

[Felixfan 53]

Thirst Wizard

A rather jaundiced view. Would things be any better if there was no forum at all. Or you could offer your services.

[TIL 1010 4,777]

FELIXFAN and TREV is this THIRST WIZARD really worth the time and effort? The more you try and explain and reason with him the more bile he comes out with.Ill informed and totally off track to say the least.

[DOGGER 0]

[quote user="BBFF"]

The EDP says today (Fans Eye) that the SCG have been told by the club what going on with the Cullum offer but the fans on the SCG are keeping it a secret. They are there supposedly to represent us fans in dealing with the club. It now appears the SCG is just another part of the club which is there to keep the fans happy, are in fact in the boards pocket and are a waste of time as fan representatives. If the SCG cant or wont tell the people they stand for what''s going on when they know, its time the fans on the group stand down.

 

This is part of the SCG Constitution.

"The aim of the group is to help to improve communication between the Club and it''s supporters and encourage frank, open constructive discussion of the clubs policies and supporters issues on a regular basis especially those issues which affect supporters most"

 

Maybe the fans on the group should read their constitution again and think hard about who are they really there for, us or the board.

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[/quote]

I have just spoken to a member of the SCG and he says it''s all very hush hush, wouldn''t mind but we have been mates for years and still wouldn''t tell me what''s going on, but it must prove something is happening surely!!!??

[Dan 0]

Is he that good a mate that he hasnt told you.

[DOGGER 0]

Reckons he can''t even tell his own mother!! They have been sworn to secretcy

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Dogger Slipraid"][quote user="BBFF"]

The EDP says today (Fans Eye) that the SCG have been told by the club what going on with the Cullum offer but the fans on the SCG are keeping it a secret. They are there supposedly to represent us fans in dealing with the club. It now appears the SCG is just another part of the club which is there to keep the fans happy, are in fact in the boards pocket and are a waste of time as fan representatives. If the SCG cant or wont tell the people they stand for what''s going on when they know, its time the fans on the group stand down.

 

This is part of the SCG Constitution.

"The aim of the group is to help to improve communication between the Club and it''s supporters and encourage frank, open constructive discussion of the clubs policies and supporters issues on a regular basis especially those issues which affect supporters most"

 

Maybe the fans on the group should read their constitution again and think hard about who are they really there for, us or the board.

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[/quote]

I have just spoken to a member of the SCG and he says it''s all very hush hush, wouldn''t mind but we have been mates for years and still wouldn''t tell me what''s going on, but it must prove something is happening surely!!!??

[/quote]Sounds like Trev was telling porkies to me. [N]

[Rum Ol Boy 0]

I wish I knew what the hell is going on![8-)]

[Dan 0]

SOMEONE TELL ME PLEASE WHATS GOING ON!!!!!!    Rant over.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Dogger Slipraid"]Reckons he can''t even tell his own mother!! They have been sworn to secretcy[/quote]Sounds like these elite superfans really were told something then. No apology necessary from Fan''s Eye.  One wonders whether ''Jetstream'' has another reason for demanding an apology.  You wouldn''t happen to know one of the SCG would you??[:O]

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]FELIXFAN and TREV is this THIRST WIZARD really worth the time and effort? The more you try and explain and reason with him the more bile he comes out with.Ill informed and totally off track to say the least.[/quote]But hay ho as long as your opinion goes.  I believe in elected delegates.  But I guess that''s old fashioned these days. If you think that is ill  informed bile then that''s your opinion. 

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Felixfan"]

Thirst Wizard

A rather jaundiced view. Would things be any better if there was no forum at all. Or you could offer your services.

[/quote]Deerrrr  I wouldn''t do it cos I don''t believe in self appointing yourself, in the hope some person from The Club will pat me on the head and say "you''ll do nicely"

[Felixfan 53]

As a relatively new member I would support elected members and would happily offer myself for election. Surely the most important thing is what is best for NCFC. I suspect that some fans would never be happy with any group that met regularly with board members if it did not suit their own prejudices.

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

[quote user="Dogger Slipraid"]Reckons he can''t even tell his own mother!! They have been sworn to secretcy[/quote]

 

he can tell her but he''d have to kill her...

[trev 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="Dogger Slipraid"][quote user="BBFF"]

The EDP says today (Fans Eye) that the SCG have been told by the club what going on with the Cullum offer but the fans on the SCG are keeping it a secret. They are there supposedly to represent us fans in dealing with the club. It now appears the SCG is just another part of the club which is there to keep the fans happy, are in fact in the boards pocket and are a waste of time as fan representatives. If the SCG cant or wont tell the people they stand for what''s going on when they know, its time the fans on the group stand down.

 

This is part of the SCG Constitution.

"The aim of the group is to help to improve communication between the Club and it''s supporters and encourage frank, open constructive discussion of the clubs policies and supporters issues on a regular basis especially those issues which affect supporters most"

 

Maybe the fans on the group should read their constitution again and think hard about who are they really there for, us or the board.

 

FOOTBALL MUST COME FIRST

[/quote]

I have just spoken to a member of the SCG and he says it''s all very hush hush, wouldn''t mind but we have been mates for years and still wouldn''t tell me what''s going on, but it must prove something is happening surely!!!??

[/quote]

Sounds like Trev was telling porkies to me. [N]
[/quote]

Like I said, happy to meet anyone and be judged.

[TIL 1010 4,777]

How about you guys who have opinions on the SCG call a meeting and invite the members of the SCG along and see who turns up.It looks like several members pop up on here me,TREV,FELIXFAN,YELLOWRIDER and certainly another but i am not too sure that she will come along.

Call a local pub landlord and book a venue for the evening.In the current credit crunch i am sure they would be pleased with the extra business.

No alcopops please.People of our generation only drink light ale and the odd glass of sherry.