Doomcaster pleading poverty already Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[SouthamptonCanary 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

[quote user="SouthamptonCanary"]Which clubs have gone out of business?Gretna are pretty close, a perfect exmaple of pumping money into a club not working.

[/quote]

You list one club that has not gone out of business....

[/quote]Ok Foghorn, no club has yet to go out of business to my knowledge, but this season could see the first with the way things are going for Gretna and Bournmouth.  Also i never stated that any club had gone out of business.Do you want ours to be the first?  Because by the sound of some poeple on here we will be if they get their way of almost unlimited spending to show ambition regardless of the consequences

[ricky knight 0]

All this club going out of business is nonsense, i dont think spending 6-7 mill in the summer would signal the end of NCFC.

[SouthamptonCanary 0]

[quote user="kdncfc"]

SouthamptonCanary wrote:

I would rather have a club in the championship or even league 1 than no club at all.

If we go down to league 1 we wouldn''t have a club for much longer, there''d be no way we could afford to service the loan repayments with such a large drop in turnover, we''d be in administration within a week of our relegation. Surely better to speculate and try and reach the prem, invest a large chunk of the tv money when you get there and survive for 1 season and you could then clear a large portion of the debt in subsequent years. If you get relegated sell the players that want to leave but make sure you invest a large chunk of the proceeds on replacements, don''t sell your best players and expect to replace them for nothing or you''ll end up where we are now, no saleable assets and with a very poor squad.[/quote]If we went to League 1 (which i honestly can''t see happening, but who knows??), yes we would be in trouble but we would survive even if administrators where required.  What if we spend a fortune on players and don''t reach the prem?  again we would be in trouble but would probably survive.  Spending big doesn''t mean you will automatically make the prem.  How about the sensible option of spend what you can afford and through a period of time build a squad good enough to make the prem without the risk of administrator/closure.  Then reap the rewards of having money to spend when you get to the prem giving you a chance of staying up instead of having to use prem money to service the debt you got from getting up in the first place

[kdncfc 0]

[quote user="SouthamptonCanary"][quote user="kdncfc"]

SouthamptonCanary wrote:

I would rather have a club in the championship or even league 1 than no club at all.

If we go down to league 1 we wouldn''t have a club for much longer, there''d be no way we could afford to service the loan repayments with such a large drop in turnover, we''d be in administration within a week of our relegation. Surely better to speculate and try and reach the prem, invest a large chunk of the tv money when you get there and survive for 1 season and you could then clear a large portion of the debt in subsequent years. If you get relegated sell the players that want to leave but make sure you invest a large chunk of the proceeds on replacements, don''t sell your best players and expect to replace them for nothing or you''ll end up where we are now, no saleable assets and with a very poor squad.[/quote]

If we went to League 1 (which i honestly can''t see happening, but who knows??), yes we would be in trouble but we would survive even if administrators where required.  What if we spend a fortune on players and don''t reach the prem?  again we would be in trouble but would probably survive.  Spending big doesn''t mean you will automatically make the prem.  How about the sensible option of spend what you can afford and through a period of time build a squad good enough to make the prem without the risk of administrator/closure.  Then reap the rewards of having money to spend when you get to the prem giving you a chance of staying up instead of having to use prem money to service the debt you got from getting up in the first place
[/quote]We have spent what we could afford for the last 3 years and it hasn''t worked, continue along the same path and we''ll end up in the conference. I don''t like the fact that football is all about money any more than you do but sadly that''s the way it is. The only way to succeed nowadays is to invest heavily in the team, West Brom have done this consistently since they got promoted with us and the results are there for all to see. They haven''t got a wealthy benefactor, they have however invested a far greater proportion of the money they recieved for being in the prem on players and when they have sold players they have spent a greater proportion of the money they sold them for on replacements. We have gone from a 7 million pound striker to a 600k striker in 3 years, says everyuthing as to why we are in the position we are to me.

[SouthamptonCanary 0]

[quote user="kdncfc"][quote user="SouthamptonCanary"][quote user="kdncfc"]

SouthamptonCanary wrote:

I would rather have a club in the championship or even league 1 than no club at all.

If we go down to league 1 we wouldn''t have a club for much longer, there''d be no way we could afford to service the loan repayments with such a large drop in turnover, we''d be in administration within a week of our relegation. Surely better to speculate and try and reach the prem, invest a large chunk of the tv money when you get there and survive for 1 season and you could then clear a large portion of the debt in subsequent years. If you get relegated sell the players that want to leave but make sure you invest a large chunk of the proceeds on replacements, don''t sell your best players and expect to replace them for nothing or you''ll end up where we are now, no saleable assets and with a very poor squad.[/quote]If we went to League 1 (which i honestly can''t see happening, but who knows??), yes we would be in trouble but we would survive even if administrators where required.  What if we spend a fortune on players and don''t reach the prem?  again we would be in trouble but would probably survive.  Spending big doesn''t mean you will automatically make the prem.  How about the sensible option of spend what you can afford and through a period of time build a squad good enough to make the prem without the risk of administrator/closure.  Then reap the rewards of having money to spend when you get to the prem giving you a chance of staying up instead of having to use prem money to service the debt you got from getting up in the first place[/quote]We have spent what we could afford for the last 3 years and it hasn''t worked, continue along the same path and we''ll end up in the conference. I don''t like the fact that football is all about money any more than you do but sadly that''s the way it is. The only way to succeed nowadays is to invest heavily in the team, West Brom have done this consistently since they got promoted with us and the results are there for all to see. They haven''t got a wealthy benefactor, they have however invested a far greater proportion of the money they recieved for being in the prem on players and when they have sold players they have spent a greater proportion of the money they sold them for on replacements. We have gone from a 7 million pound striker to a 600k striker in 3 years, says everyuthing as to why we are in the position we are to me.[/quote]I know mate, i really do see your point of view and it is valid.  It is a crying shame that football is so dependent on money and the very fact that a thread like this exists talking about money and football is sad but unfortunetlty it is the way football is these days.  All could say with regards to the WBA situation is that they went up in a far better state then us because they had been in the prem the previous year so they had already had a windfall and parachute payments and then they managed to stay up the year we went down giving them yet another year of prem money over us.  This mean''t that they had been able to spend money on players because they had already invested in other areas of the club which is were our money has gone.  I do disagree about the amounts needed to succeed though, look at hull, stoke and bristol city this year.  In my opinion its all about bargains and of course luck.  So lets just pray that GR finds us some bargains in the summer and with a bit of luck gets us up to where we belong back in the prem.

[Barclay_Boy 0]

How many times does it have to be said, we need this Board and owners OUT, and new owners and Board in who can match our ambition. 25000 of us turn up every week and our support is being thrown back in our face. I am off to Sheffield on Sunday with my son and I am sure there will be a terrific turnout as per usual. I think we are close to 20000 season ticket holders already on board for next season. We are MASSIVE in this division, by rights we should be the equivalanet of a Liverpool or Man Utd, in the Championship spending department, but we are the paupers. Roeder realses the club''s potential , that''s why he came here.

Where are you NCFC Board and owners? Let''s be avin YOU for a change!!! 

Here''s an idea for you, all those as fed up as I am club together and take out some full page adverts in the national daily papers, pointing out the fanbase that we have compared to all the other clubs in this division with a "come and buy us" plea. I would gladly chip in for that!

[Paul Lamberts Disciple 0]

[quote user="SouthamptonCanary"]What if we spend a fortune on players and don''t reach the prem? 
[/quote]

Then you sell those players. If you spend a bit on proven quality theres always a resale value. Look at Earnshaw, Ashton and even Etuhu. In general, when they''ve opened the purse strings - even a little - this board havent sustained a loss.

Its no different to buying cheap clothing - it''s invariably of an inferior standard and requires replacement much sooner than goods of decent quality. It''s a false economy trying to find the cheapest of anything.

You might have noticed that now, we dont really have any players of significant value to sell. Ha! And there was you, thinking asset stripping always meant the "end of the season fire sale"! Well - here''s the board being cleverer - they''ve innovated a much more progressive form of asset stripping which the fans (fingers crossed!) wont complain about.

I like to call it "fearful negligence".

[ricardo 7,445]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="ricardo"]

The simple answer to your query Nutty, is that people have seen failure for so long now that they have come to accept it as the norm. Most don''t seem to know any better.

If you could go back in time 15 years and tell someone that by 2008 we would be struggling in the 2nd tier of English football in front of near capacity crowds nobody would believe it.

A sign of the times I''m afraid. If you spin it long enough then the majority will believe it.

[/quote]

See, I''m still struggling with this Ricardo. I don''t know how many people on this thread went to the game on Saturday. I know you did, I did, CJF did and Mr Carrow did. So that''s four of us. Out of the four there''s me, a gutless and ambitionless sheep who apparently accepts failure as a norm, is taken in by spin and just having a nice day out. And then there''s you three realists who know so much better. So in what way did you three behave differently to me on Saturday until you got back home and got all nancied up on your keyboards[:^)]. And no I didn''t join in the Delias Barmy Army chants either! [:''(]

 

[/quote]

I don''t profess to have acted in any way different to you. I was mighty relieved that we didn''t have to go to the last game needing something. I also applaud GR''s achievement in keeping us up because I freely admit that I didn''t think he was the man for the job. I suppose now you will come back with the quip that the Board picked him so they have at least got that right. However since I know that he was not their first choice I can only reply that they got it right more by luck than judgement.

On the subject of spin and the vast majority of people who swallow it, well you only have to look around you and on this board to see that this is in fact true. No doubt a large body of our support is realatively new. Our gates during the "Golden Period" averaged under 20,000 so obviously there is a lot of fresh young blood who don''t remember that time. As an individual I feel angry and let down at the way our Premiership heritage was so needlessly thrown away for want of a few quid. (I am talking about the Windass incident here). Nothing your Auntie Delia has done since convinces me that they have the wherewithall to rectify this situation.

I don''t know if my opinion makes me a realist or not but it certainly makes me sceptical of the "Prudence with Ambition" and "Charlton Athletic Model" type of remarks that have come out of Carrow Road in the past 10 plus years.

It would seem that the only real difference between you and me is that you continue to have faith in the Board despite all the recent evidence to the contrary.

I no longer expect anything from the Board so when and if the Summer transfer saga turns out to be another bust, at least I won''t be disappointed. You may say that''s because of my natural pessimistic nature but then I would say "that''s why I am a Nancy".

[SouthamptonCanary 0]

[quote user="Jim Duffy"]

[quote user="SouthamptonCanary"]What if we spend a fortune on players and don''t reach the prem?  [/quote]

Then you sell those players. If you spend a bit on proven quality theres always a resale value. Look at Earnshaw, Ashton and even Etuhu. In general, when they''ve opened the purse strings - even a little - this board havent sustained a loss.

Its no different to buying cheap clothing - it''s invariably of an inferior standard and requires replacement much sooner than goods of decent quality. It''s a false economy trying to find the cheapest of anything.

You might have noticed that now, we dont really have any players of significant value to sell. Ha! And there was you, thinking asset stripping always meant the "end of the season fire sale"! Well - here''s the board being cleverer - they''ve innovated a much more progressive form of asset stripping which the fans (fingers crossed!) wont complain about.

I like to call it "fearful negligence".

[/quote]I know what your saying but where does this magical big pot of money come from to buy these players?  A loan? With how much interest?What happens if we actually pay well over the odds for a player and can''t get our money back? Or a couple of player get injured?What about the big wages of all these big players?  Do we get any money back on that?Lets say that this risk of buying these big players for big money works and we get into the prem.  How are we going to strengthen the team to have a chance of staying there?  When all the money will go on paying off the debt from the previous season getting us up

[Mr.Carrow 380]

Can people get one thing straight please.  NCFC have catagorically NOT spent all they could afford on the team since relegation.  They have spent the scraps of whatever was left over after paying for land, infill, road, new pitch, new ticket office, new offices to rent out, new club 101 facility, spaces for sport facility, a £7m non-football wage bill, etc, etc. 

This is the reason that after receiving £34m in tv money and £18m transfer income plus sell-out crowds (about the biggest in our league) we are left with a squad which cost about the same as that which took us up (£5m).  It was the boards CHOICE whether to put infrastructure or the team first therefore they are entirely culpable for the mess we are in- which ironically will cost more than the club can probably afford to sort out.  So not spending money in the right area has ended up almost crippling the club.

[kdncfc 0]

[quote user="SouthamptonCanary"][quote user="Jim Duffy"]

[quote user="SouthamptonCanary"]What if we spend a fortune on players and don''t reach the prem? 
[/quote]

Then you sell those players. If you spend a bit on proven quality theres always a resale value. Look at Earnshaw, Ashton and even Etuhu. In general, when they''ve opened the purse strings - even a little - this board havent sustained a loss.

Its no different to buying cheap clothing - it''s invariably of an inferior standard and requires replacement much sooner than goods of decent quality. It''s a false economy trying to find the cheapest of anything.

You might have noticed that now, we dont really have any players of significant value to sell. Ha! And there was you, thinking asset stripping always meant the "end of the season fire sale"! Well - here''s the board being cleverer - they''ve innovated a much more progressive form of asset stripping which the fans (fingers crossed!) wont complain about.

I like to call it "fearful negligence".

[/quote]

I know what your saying but where does this magical big pot of money come from to buy these players?  A loan? With how much interest?
What happens if we actually pay well over the odds for a player and can''t get our money back? Or a couple of player get injured?
What about the big wages of all these big players?  Do we get any money back on that?
Lets say that this risk of buying these big players for big money works and we get into the prem.  How are we going to strengthen the team to have a chance of staying there?  When all the money will go on paying off the debt from the previous season getting us up
[/quote]

We have already had the money and blown it SC,  we had the prem money and spent very little on players, we''ve had the parachute money and spent very little of it on the team and we''ve made a profit on player trading but spent very little on new players. Had we spent more on players we would have been in a much stronger position with more saleable assets, as it is we are now relying on someone putting money into the club to enable us to compete in this division. That should never have been allowed to happen, we are one of the biggest clubs in this division and have every right to be at least challenging for the top six, that all indicates to me that the board have got things seriously wrong the last few years.

[nutty nigel 7,667]

Ricardo..

How do you know Roeder wasn''t the boards first choice? I was under the impression he was the one they chose from those they interviewed. But it doesn''t matter anyway. If he is a success then they get the credit and if he is a failure then they take the blame. Nobody can argue with that. Luck surely doesn''t enter into it. We can be unlucky by getting injuries to key players in the same positions, or be unlucky over a few points during a season. However average mid table obscurity over three seasons and three different managers cannot be just down to luck.

What really gets me about the complaining that goes on by people who think they know how to do a better job than those who run the club is that they always qualify it by accusing other fans of allowing it to happen whilst doing no more than those other fans to change things. It''s not my fault that Chase nearly bankrupted the club and so couldn''t even afford Dean Windass. And nothing that has happened since is my fault either. Right through my 40 years as a fan, and your 50+, we have had to take what we are given. Whether it was Watling, South, Chase or Smith. Sometimes we got a Martin Peters or Darren Huckerby and sometimes a Jim Blair or a John Hartson.

Now do I have faith in the board? Maybe a little more than you but to be honest Ricardo who is on the board has never much interested me. Who is football manager is more to the point, or football coach. People like John Bond and David Williams would have been successful whoever was on the board at the time. People like Megson and Grant would have failed. I pointed out at the start of the season when everybody was heralding Leicester and Mandaric that his record without Redknapp was worse than our boards. What has happened this season has backed that up.  I''m not trying to score points here, I''m just pointing out how important the football manager is whoever is in charge. We need to hope that Roeder is to our board what Redknapp is to Mandaric.

By the way Rickyyyyyyyy... Delia is my cousin not my auntie [;)]

 

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Can people get one thing straight please.  NCFC have catagorically NOT spent all they could afford on the team since relegation.  They have spent the scraps of whatever was left over after paying for land, infill, road, new pitch, new ticket office, new offices to rent out, new club 101 facility, spaces for sport facility, a £7m non-football wage bill, etc, etc. 

This is the reason that after receiving £34m in tv money and £18m transfer income plus sell-out crowds (about the biggest in our league) we are left with a squad which cost about the same as that which took us up (£5m).  It was the boards CHOICE whether to put infrastructure or the team first therefore they are entirely culpable for the mess we are in- which ironically will cost more than the club can probably afford to sort out.  So not spending money in the right area has ended up almost crippling the club.

[/quote]You''re right of course Mr Carrow and what''s important now is what happens next.This is all just my opinion but I get the impression that after the collapse of ITV Digital the board made a conscious decision to try and maximise off pitch revenue. That''s why we''ve seen all of the spending that you noted and for a while it worked. A narrow defeat in the play off final and susequent promotion two years later seemed to vindicate the strategies of the board. I think that they saw promotion to The Premiership as a great way of pushing the NCFC brand (I actually feel sick after writing that [+o(] ) to a new set of fans. Somewhere along the line though they started putting far too much energy and money into off field matters at the expense of the playing squad. But I think they believe that they are too far down this particular road to turn back, can we just dismiss £7m of non-footballing wage bill? How will we replace the revenue that these activities bring in? I don''t think that the non-footballing activities have been anywhere near as successful as they thought they would be, I''m sure we would hear regular updates on the figures if they were making that much money, but I think we would struggle without them. How many of the newer fans who have started coming over the past few years come for the "match day experience"? Can the board afford to alienate these people and risk losing them on match days?In short I feel that the board genuinely thought they were acting in the best interest of the clubs future but have got it badly wrong. The big question is can they, or somebody else such as Andrew and Sharon Turner, make the difficult decisions necessary to get us out of this mess.Right, I''m off to watch Chelsea vs Liverpool. Just to get things straight there''s not a way that they can both lose is there [;)]

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]Right, I''m off to watch Chelsea vs Liverpool. Just to get things straight there''s not a way that they can both lose is there [;)][/quote]Ideally, Drogba will get sent off for diving and John Terry will end up in tears.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="Shack Attack"]Right, I''m off to watch Chelsea vs Liverpool. Just to get things straight there''s not a way that they can both lose is there [;)][/quote]Ideally, Drogba will get sent off for diving and John Terry will end up in tears.[/quote]Mmmm he dived quite nicely after he scored.I can''t work out what would be most amusing, Chelsea getting through but John Terry getting booked and missing the final or Liverpool getting through and The Greatest Most Bestest Midfielder In The World Ever (TM) getting booked and missing the final. Either way it will leave me in a fairly unique position, I''ll actually want Man Yoo to win a game of football [:$] [+o(]

[Buncey 1]

I''m sory but I must come from a different world where that when you buy a talented sought-after player they become worthless when you purchase them. That said donkaster is more interested in making money from the sale of players than acually buying them and always has done. This is his typical spin machine cr@p that he spouts every month with the usual "let''s not do a leeds/gretna/blah blah" rubbish. We''ll see if we actually will buy some (Talented!)  players in the summer. But to be honest I have never liked donkaster, I still don''t and would celebrate if he''s thrown out of norwich for good.

[ricardo 7,445]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Ricardo..

How do you know Roeder wasn''t the boards first choice? I was under the impression he was the one they chose from those they interviewed. But it doesn''t matter anyway. If he is a success then they get the credit and if he is a failure then they take the blame. Nobody can argue with that. Luck surely doesn''t enter into it. We can be unlucky by getting injuries to key players in the same positions, or be unlucky over a few points during a season. However average mid table obscurity over three seasons and three different managers cannot be just down to luck.

What really gets me about the complaining that goes on by people who think they know how to do a better job than those who run the club is that they always qualify it by accusing other fans of allowing it to happen whilst doing no more than those other fans to change things. It''s not my fault that Chase nearly bankrupted the club and so couldn''t even afford Dean Windass. And nothing that has happened since is my fault either. Right through my 40 years as a fan, and your 50+, we have had to take what we are given. Whether it was Watling, South, Chase or Smith. Sometimes we got a Martin Peters or Darren Huckerby and sometimes a Jim Blair or a John Hartson.

Now do I have faith in the board? Maybe a little more than you but to be honest Ricardo who is on the board has never much interested me. Who is football manager is more to the point, or football coach. People like John Bond and David Williams would have been successful whoever was on the board at the time. People like Megson and Grant would have failed. I pointed out at the start of the season when everybody was heralding Leicester and Mandaric that his record without Redknapp was worse than our boards. What has happened this season has backed that up.  I''m not trying to score points here, I''m just pointing out how important the football manager is whoever is in charge. We need to hope that Roeder is to our board what Redknapp is to Mandaric.

By the way Rickyyyyyyyy... Delia is my cousin not my auntie [;)]

 

[/quote]

Sorry to get your relationship wrong. No offence intended.

You are correct in saying we have to take what we are given Nutty but surely we have the right to complain when the Board seems bent on continuing along a path that has only brought failure. I''m talkin here about the "Prudence with Ambition" programme. It seems to me that we are fed just enough good news to keep us excited and then the Doomcaster is wheeled in to calm things down again. We are fed the same old nonsense every year about transfer fees going back to the manager to be invested in new players. You don''t have to be a mathamatician to realise that this does not happen. The yearly accounts show that over the years this club balances the books by buying cheap and selling dear.. Unfortunately we have very little family silver left to sell so I am wondering where this years cash is coming from.

I repeat that my main gripe with this lot is that they don''t have the wherewithall ( financial mainly) to move us forward. It must be obvious to all that football is now a rich mans plaything and if you want to play with the big boys you need deep pockets. I know lots of clubs are looking for financial investment but it seems to me that our owners are happy to bump along in company with clubs that have far less potential or history than us.

Regarding the first choice of manager that I mentioned. I don''t want to air my knowledge on an open forum so suffice to say that I am satisfied that the information I was given was genuine. I realise that this may not satisfy you or others on here but you are free to believe or disbelieve at your pleasure.

Finally Nutty, I guess the reason some of us are Nancy''s and some Percy''s is down to our individual personalities. I''m a Gemini so only half of me is ever happy in any event.

[Mr.Carrow 380]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Enlighten us as to how much money the club are making from it and we`ll judge accordingly......[/quote]

Well you seem to be able to judge Hull City''s finances without knowing the facts Mr Carrow, so have a stab at judging anyway[:^)]

 

[/quote]

Hull are just one example of a smaller club who haven`t had the tv/ transfer/ gate money we have had in recent years yet show more ambition on the pitch.  If you want to show me we have been one of the higher net spenders (taking incoming transfer fees into account) in this league then go ahead, but we both know we haven`t.

As far as the sponsorship goes, i think MWJ`s comment that "it won`t affect Roeders` transfer budget" says it all......

[Mr.Carrow 380]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Can people get one thing straight please.  NCFC have catagorically NOT spent all they could afford on the team since relegation.  They have spent the scraps of whatever was left over after paying for land, infill, road, new pitch, new ticket office, new offices to rent out, new club 101 facility, spaces for sport facility, a £7m non-football wage bill, etc, etc. 

This is the reason that after receiving £34m in tv money and £18m transfer income plus sell-out crowds (about the biggest in our league) we are left with a squad which cost about the same as that which took us up (£5m).  It was the boards CHOICE whether to put infrastructure or the team first therefore they are entirely culpable for the mess we are in- which ironically will cost more than the club can probably afford to sort out.  So not spending money in the right area has ended up almost crippling the club.

[/quote]

You''re right of course Mr Carrow and what''s important now is what happens next.

This is all just my opinion but I get the impression that after the collapse of ITV Digital the board made a conscious decision to try and maximise off pitch revenue. That''s why we''ve seen all of the spending that you noted and for a while it worked. A narrow defeat in the play off final and susequent promotion two years later seemed to vindicate the strategies of the board. I think that they saw promotion to The Premiership as a great way of pushing the NCFC brand (I actually feel sick after writing that [+o(] ) to a new set of fans. Somewhere along the line though they started putting far too much energy and money into off field matters at the expense of the playing squad. But I think they believe that they are too far down this particular road to turn back, can we just dismiss £7m of non-footballing wage bill? How will we replace the revenue that these activities bring in? I don''t think that the non-footballing activities have been anywhere near as successful as they thought they would be, I''m sure we would hear regular updates on the figures if they were making that much money, but I think we would struggle without them. How many of the newer fans who have started coming over the past few years come for the "match day experience"? Can the board afford to alienate these people and risk losing them on match days?

In short I feel that the board genuinely thought they were acting in the best interest of the clubs future but have got it badly wrong. The big question is can they, or somebody else such as Andrew and Sharon Turner, make the difficult decisions necessary to get us out of this mess.

Right, I''m off to watch Chelsea vs Liverpool. Just to get things straight there''s not a way that they can both lose is there [;)]
[/quote]

I totally agree Shack.  I think it has been an overall wrong-headed approach and things have got out of control.  For example Doncaster admitted that both the Jarrold and Community stands ran well over budget.

The thing is i see absolutely no evidence that the board think they have got it wrong.  I mean, don`t you just tear your hair out when you read Doncasters` latest ridiculous waffle?  "We can`t do a Gretna".......![+o(]  The difference between me and many posters on here is that i don`t think they have the integrity to admit they have got it wrong, and if not, we have to let them know we will not tolerate watching our club slide into obscurity due to extreme prudence and an "obsession" with infrastructure.  I cannot for the life of me see how any self-respecting City fan can disagree with this.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So have the club done well in getting this sponsorship or not[:^)] And if they have done well does credit go to the current board, bob the builder or the foreign investor we haven''t got yet[:^)]

[/quote]

Sarcasm ill-befits you nutty.

OTBC

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Can people get one thing straight please.  NCFC have catagorically NOT spent all they could afford on the team since relegation.  They have spent the scraps of whatever was left over after paying for land, infill, road, new pitch, new ticket office, new offices to rent out, new club 101 facility, spaces for sport facility, a £7m non-football wage bill, etc, etc. 

This is the reason that after receiving £34m in tv money and £18m transfer income plus sell-out crowds (about the biggest in our league) we are left with a squad which cost about the same as that which took us up (£5m).  It was the boards CHOICE whether to put infrastructure or the team first therefore they are entirely culpable for the mess we are in- which ironically will cost more than the club can probably afford to sort out.  So not spending money in the right area has ended up almost crippling the club.

[/quote]

Hear, hear Mr Carrow.

Keep going. Don''t despair. Hopefully they''ll understand one day!

OTBC

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Ricardo..

How do you know Roeder wasn''t the boards first choice? I was under the impression he was the one they chose from those they interviewed. But it doesn''t matter anyway. If he is a success then they get the credit and if he is a failure then they take the blame. Nobody can argue with that. Luck surely doesn''t enter into it. We can be unlucky by getting injuries to key players in the same positions, or be unlucky over a few points during a season. However average mid table obscurity over three seasons and three different managers cannot be just down to luck.

What really gets me about the complaining that goes on by people who think they know how to do a better job than those who run the club is that they always qualify it by accusing other fans of allowing it to happen whilst doing no more than those other fans to change things. It''s not my fault that Chase nearly bankrupted the club and so couldn''t even afford Dean Windass. And nothing that has happened since is my fault either. Right through my 40 years as a fan, and your 50+, we have had to take what we are given. Whether it was Watling, South, Chase or Smith. Sometimes we got a Martin Peters or Darren Huckerby and sometimes a Jim Blair or a John Hartson.

Now do I have faith in the board? Maybe a little more than you but to be honest Ricardo who is on the board has never much interested me. Who is football manager is more to the point, or football coach. People like John Bond and David Williams would have been successful whoever was on the board at the time. People like Megson and Grant would have failed. I pointed out at the start of the season when everybody was heralding Leicester and Mandaric that his record without Redknapp was worse than our boards. What has happened this season has backed that up.  I''m not trying to score points here, I''m just pointing out how important the football manager is whoever is in charge. We need to hope that Roeder is to our board what Redknapp is to Mandaric.

By the way Rickyyyyyyyy... Delia is my cousin not my auntie [;)]

 

[/quote]

Sorry to get your relationship wrong. No offence intended.

You are correct in saying we have to take what we are given Nutty but surely we have the right to complain when the Board seems bent on continuing along a path that has only brought failure. I''m talkin here about the "Prudence with Ambition" programme. It seems to me that we are fed just enough good news to keep us excited and then the Doomcaster is wheeled in to calm things down again. We are fed the same old nonsense every year about transfer fees going back to the manager to be invested in new players. You don''t have to be a mathamatician to realise that this does not happen. The yearly accounts show that over the years this club balances the books by buying cheap and selling dear.. Unfortunately we have very little family silver left to sell so I am wondering where this years cash is coming from.

I repeat that my main gripe with this lot is that they don''t have the wherewithall ( financial mainly) to move us forward. It must be obvious to all that football is now a rich mans plaything and if you want to play with the big boys you need deep pockets. I know lots of clubs are looking for financial investment but it seems to me that our owners are happy to bump along in company with clubs that have far less potential or history than us.

Regarding the first choice of manager that I mentioned. I don''t want to air my knowledge on an open forum so suffice to say that I am satisfied that the information I was given was genuine. I realise that this may not satisfy you or others on here but you are free to believe or disbelieve at your pleasure.

Finally Nutty, I guess the reason some of us are Nancy''s and some Percy''s is down to our individual personalities. I''m a Gemini so only half of me is ever happy in any event.

[/quote]

And some of us suffer from tunnel vision whilst others are blessed with peripheral vision

C''est la vie.

OTBC 

 

[nutty nigel 7,667]

The whole point I was making is that you must all be keyboard nancies when you post on here because on match days you all come out of the closet and wear a woolly coat as thick as mine[;)]

Que sera sera

 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

The whole point I was making is that you must all be keyboard nancies when you post on here because on match days you all come out of the closet and wear a woolly coat as thick as mine[;)]

Que sera sera

 

[/quote]

It''s a shame they don''t put their keyboards down and do something useful, like knitting a nice wooly coat as thick as yours nigel.

Bly - Voulez vous crotchet avec moi, c''est soi ?

[Cannycanary 0]

This is exactly why the supporters should take the Norwich city kitty seriously. We should make sure money gets directly invested in the team. The only way that can happen is if the supporters do something for themselves.

CIick here  to make it happen.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Cannycanary"]

This is exactly why the supporters should take the Norwich city kitty seriously. We should make sure money gets directly invested in the team. The only way that can happen is if the supporters do something for themselves.

CIick here  to make it happen.

[/quote]How would you invest money straight into the team without several of the board/finance team touching it first?  You''d probably end up paying for Jamelia...

[corbs 0]

I have never had a problem with Doncaster''s statements. They would appear to be pretty uncontroversial and standard fare for someone in his position. It seems slightly obvious that a Club which is 17M in debt will not be able to ''splash the cash''. I enjoy the anti-Board rants, especially the ''Pots and pans'' stuff, which has become a standard pre-match joke in the Pub. But I thought I would respond to the odd post on here which suggests that spending money, going further into debt, or looking for ''handouts'' from rich people is somehow synonymous with having ''balls'' or showing guts. I would of thought that refusing to go further into debt, building up the youth team, sticking to a sensible pay ceiling for players, and looking to the longer term; now that shows real courage. Just a thought.  

[ricardo 7,445]

[quote user="corbs"]I have never had a problem with Doncaster''s statements. They would appear to be pretty uncontroversial and standard fare for someone in his position. It seems slightly obvious that a Club which is 17M in debt will not be able to ''splash the cash''. I enjoy the anti-Board rants, especially the ''Pots and pans'' stuff, which has become a standard pre-match joke in the Pub. But I thought I would respond to the odd post on here which suggests that spending money, going further into debt, or looking for ''handouts'' from rich people is somehow synonymous with having ''balls'' or showing guts. I would of thought that refusing to go further into debt, building up the youth team, sticking to a sensible pay ceiling for players, and looking to the longer term; now that shows real courage. Just a thought.  [/quote]

Unfortunately the "longer term" will only apply to those with money.

Building up a good youth programme will only get you so far these days. The game has been taken over by big money.

You can either get busy attracting some big money or you can let events overtake you and get used to your new position in the lower leagues.

25,000 gates, a youth policy and a rigid wage structure may well make us a stable little club but it has no chance of getting us into the Prem.

[Mello Yello 2,315]

[quote user="corbs"]I have never had a problem with Doncaster''s statements. They would appear to be pretty uncontroversial and standard fare for someone in his position. It seems slightly obvious that a Club which is 17M in debt will not be able to ''splash the cash''. I enjoy the anti-Board rants, especially the ''Pots and pans'' stuff, which has become a standard pre-match joke in the Pub. But I thought I would respond to the odd post on here which suggests that spending money, going further into debt, or looking for ''handouts'' from rich people is somehow synonymous with having ''balls'' or showing guts. I would of thought that refusing to go further into debt, building up the youth team, sticking to a sensible pay ceiling for players, and looking to the longer term; now that shows real courage. Just a thought.  [/quote]

Not the kind of standard pre-match joke in the ''City Supporting'' pub, I pre-drink in....Now, is it actually a pub you ''pre-drink in''.....or, is it in the ''Top O'' the Terrace''....nice lunch and comfy surroundings - before you take to your padded seat behind that thick glass? Maybe a visit to the Gunn Club after?

And, I think It''s slightly more than 17 million debt that we''re in......and those ''Pot''s and Pan''s don''t actually get you 3 points.....but, may attract a more ''affluent clientele''....''Longer term'' being an extension of the last decade (plus) - where the opportunity to establish a foot-hold in the Premiership, is now, back to square one. The Chief Exec is still in post, so must be doing something right (for the major-shareholder''s......But, never mind the football....Look at the quality that surrounds the pitch! TOP NOTCH and TOP NOSH!

Annual £400,000 from the restyrunts.....MINTED!

Now, get yerself onto the ''Wrath''.......You''ll fit in well there..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[corbs 0]

Pub is Jubilee, and I am back row of the Snake Pit (name came fro a letter in the Paper which likened us to a nest of vipers).