The ' Old Farm ' derby.......English football's second biggest rivalry ?

[......and Smith must score. 1,351]

Just been reading an item on the '' Pink-Un '' web-site that claims Norwich and Ipswich have the second most bitter rivalry in English football...

In the survey, by the New Football Pools - whoever they are - shows that City and Town fans dislike their '' friends '' down the road more than Liverpool despise Man Utd Pompey hate Southampton and Newcastle loathe Sunderland.

Quite how reliable all this stuff is is open to doubt as they''ve somehow included Cardiff''s well chronicled relationship with Swansea in a survey of English football fans, but there must be some truth in it. We all think our hatred of our local rivals is tops but I remember a couple of seasons ago a Luton Town clown ranting outside the '' Coach '' that we could forget all about Rangers v Celtic and Millwall v West Ham......... Luton v Watford was the one !

Now that really take the biscuit....

Incidentally, we8wba, you will be pleased to learn that Wolves fans '' love '' of WBA is top of the league ( even if your team can''t quite manage the same )

 

[Joanna Grey 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]

Just been reading an item on the '' Pink-Un '' web-site that claims Norwich and Ipswich have the second most bitter rivalry in English football...

In the survey, by the New Football Pools - whoever they are - shows that City and Town fans dislike their '' friends '' down the road more than Liverpool despise Man Utd Pompey hate Southampton and Newcastle loathe Sunderland.

Quite how reliable all this stuff is is open to doubt as they''ve somehow included Cardiff''s well chronicled relationship with Swansea in a survey of English football fans, but there must be some truth in it. We all think our hatred of our local rivals is tops but I remember a couple of seasons ago a Luton Town clown ranting outside the '' Coach '' that we could forget all about Rangers v Celtic and Millwall v West Ham......... Luton v Watford was the one !

Now that really take the biscuit....

Incidentally, we8wba, you will be pleased to learn that Wolves fans '' love '' of WBA is top of the league ( even if your team can''t quite manage the same )

 

[/quote]

I would suggest that Cardiff and Swansea were included because they play in the English League.

[we8wba 0]

quite frankly its hard to say which is the most intense etc...

rangers v celtic got to be top in all honesty

then apart from that all teams fans will say ours is the best/most intense etc...

i personally like spurs v arsenal - just for footy entertainment

liverpool v manutd is very intense although some heat gone out of it more recently with more prawn sandwich / foreign fans

west ham v millwall would be the most "fiercest" game although this fixture does come around to often

sunderland v newcastle blantley has the most "passion"

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="we8wba"]

quite frankly its hard to say which is the most intense etc...

rangers v celtic got to be top in all honesty

then apart from that all teams fans will say ours is the best/most intense etc...

i personally like spurs v arsenal - just for footy entertainment

liverpool v manutd is very intense although some heat gone out of it more recently with more prawn sandwich / foreign fans

west ham v millwall would be the most "fiercest" game although this fixture does come around to often

sunderland v newcastle blantley has the most "passion"

[/quote]

Quite right we8wba, Rangers and Celtic should definately top a poll to find the most intense local rivalry in ENGLISH football [:|]

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

West Ham v Millwall

[Taxing 0]

West Ham v Millwall.   hahahahahaha

 

You have got to be kidding. Not only that but rust fans only turn up in numbers when you''re doing well.

[Harleston Canary 0]

I find this topic quite interesting.  As you can tell from my user-name I live deep in enemy territory, and have done so for a long time now.  I work in the Ipswich area and I am faced with my origins (Norwich born and in-bred) and football allegiances every day. Some days it feels as if i''m from another planet...

It has led me to think that the feeling of loathing is much stronger, nasty, and widespread, when people from Ipswich are discussing it, than it is when people from/supporters of Norwich do.  It never ceases to amaze me how deep-rooted the hatred of all things Norwich is down here - from football supporters to elderly women who have no interest in the game - pick up a copy of the appalling Ipwich Evening Star and try to disagree...I once saw an article about 10 years ago now, discussing council car parks, and the conclusion was that at least the ones in Ipswich didn''t have ''Concrete Cancer'' like those in Norwich! (I think the reference was to the old St Andrew''s Car Park, before its award-winning replacement).

My theory is that the relationship is similar to that between the English and the Scottish: i.e. one of inferiority.  People in Norwich tend to see Ipswich as a bit of an irrelevance: somewhere you never need to go to and a place that offers very little to the visitor. Norwich football fans see Ipswich as the enemy because that''s the way it''s always been, and after all - they hate us, don''t they?  Plus, much as it pains me to say, they do have a better historical record than us in terms of silverware...

People in Ipswich, on the other hand see Norwich as the home of the region''s University; the base for both regional TV companies (and so media bias against Ipswich!?); East Anglian HQ for many businesses; the place for the best shops in the area; the home to important historical and spiritual sites such as the Cathedral, and historical ones such as the Castle.  The list goes on...

 

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="suffolk canary"]

I find this topic quite interesting.  As you can tell from my user-name I live deep in enemy territory, and have done so for a long time now.  I work in the Ipswich area and I am faced with my origins (Norwich born and in-bred) and football allegiances every day. Some days it feels as if i''m from another planet...

It has led me to think that the feeling of loathing is much stronger, nasty, and widespread, when people from Ipswich are discussing it, than it is when people from/supporters of Norwich do.  It never ceases to amaze me how deep-rooted the hatred of all things Norwich is down here - from football supporters to elderly women who have no interest in the game - pick up a copy of the appalling Ipwich Evening Star and try to disagree...I once saw an article about 10 years ago now, discussing council car parks, and the conclusion was that at least the ones in Ipswich didn''t have ''Concrete Cancer'' like those in Norwich! (I think the reference was to the old St Andrew''s Car Park, before its award-winning replacement).

My theory is that the relationship is similar to that between the English and the Scottish: i.e. one of inferiority.  People in Norwich tend to see Ipswich as a bit of an irrelevance: somewhere you never need to go to and a place that offers very little to the visitor. Norwich football fans see Ipswich as the enemy because that''s the way it''s always been, and after all - they hate us, don''t they?  Plus, much as it pains me to say, they do have a better historical record than us in terms of silverware...

People in Ipswich, on the other hand see Norwich as the home of the region''s University; the base for both regional TV companies (and so media bias against Ipswich!?); East Anglian HQ for many businesses; the place for the best shops in the area; the home to important historical and spiritual sites such as the Cathedral, and historical ones such as the Castle.  The list goes on...

 

 

[/quote]

I think that you are spot on Suffolk Canary...

Norwich has and always will be the capital of East Anglia and it''s cultural mecca...

Those are most definetely part of he reasons why some Suffolk folk have and always will hate Norwich so much.

[The Voice of the Thorpe Area 0]

Each derby is unique to its'' fans- everyone will always argue that their derby is the best or most intense, this one really doesn''t have one correct answer!

[Unlucky Fried Kitten 0]

I don''t believe the results of this survey myself; it''s yet another worthless exercise worked out on the back of a fag packet. So we have a more intense rivalry with those Suffolk plough-jockeys than Liverpool v Everton, Liverpool v Man United, Man City v Man United, Leeds v Man United, Arsenal v Man Utd, Arsenal v Spurs, Pompey v Southampton, Sheff Utd v Sheff Weds and Millwall v everybody? I don''t think so!

[Mr.Carrow 378]

[quote user="suffolk canary"]

I find this topic quite interesting.  As you can tell from my user-name I live deep in enemy territory, and have done so for a long time now.  I work in the Ipswich area and I am faced with my origins (Norwich born and in-bred) and football allegiances every day. Some days it feels as if i''m from another planet...

It has led me to think that the feeling of loathing is much stronger, nasty, and widespread, when people from Ipswich are discussing it, than it is when people from/supporters of Norwich do.  It never ceases to amaze me how deep-rooted the hatred of all things Norwich is down here - from football supporters to elderly women who have no interest in the game - pick up a copy of the appalling Ipwich Evening Star and try to disagree...I once saw an article about 10 years ago now, discussing council car parks, and the conclusion was that at least the ones in Ipswich didn''t have ''Concrete Cancer'' like those in Norwich! (I think the reference was to the old St Andrew''s Car Park, before its award-winning replacement).

My theory is that the relationship is similar to that between the English and the Scottish: i.e. one of inferiority.  People in Norwich tend to see Ipswich as a bit of an irrelevance: somewhere you never need to go to and a place that offers very little to the visitor. Norwich football fans see Ipswich as the enemy because that''s the way it''s always been, and after all - they hate us, don''t they?  Plus, much as it pains me to say, they do have a better historical record than us in terms of silverware...

People in Ipswich, on the other hand see Norwich as the home of the region''s University; the base for both regional TV companies (and so media bias against Ipswich!?); East Anglian HQ for many businesses; the place for the best shops in the area; the home to important historical and spiritual sites such as the Cathedral, and historical ones such as the Castle.  The list goes on...

 

 

[/quote]

Good post, and i agree that they are generally more bitter than we are.  Lets face it, most of Suffolk come to Norwich for shopping/night out/theatre/restuarants/sight-seeing etc., what on earth has ipswich got exactly? 

It`s also a fact that despite their more successful past on the pitch, we actually have a higher post-war average attendance and most of them know deep down that they are a smaller club who have over-achieved and that really annoys them.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="suffolk canary"]

I find this topic quite interesting.  As you can tell from my user-name I live deep in enemy territory, and have done so for a long time now.  I work in the Ipswich area and I am faced with my origins (Norwich born and in-bred) and football allegiances every day. Some days it feels as if i''m from another planet...

It has led me to think that the feeling of loathing is much stronger, nasty, and widespread, when people from Ipswich are discussing it, than it is when people from/supporters of Norwich do.  It never ceases to amaze me how deep-rooted the hatred of all things Norwich is down here - from football supporters to elderly women who have no interest in the game - pick up a copy of the appalling Ipwich Evening Star and try to disagree...I once saw an article about 10 years ago now, discussing council car parks, and the conclusion was that at least the ones in Ipswich didn''t have ''Concrete Cancer'' like those in Norwich! (I think the reference was to the old St Andrew''s Car Park, before its award-winning replacement).

My theory is that the relationship is similar to that between the English and the Scottish: i.e. one of inferiority.  People in Norwich tend to see Ipswich as a bit of an irrelevance: somewhere you never need to go to and a place that offers very little to the visitor. Norwich football fans see Ipswich as the enemy because that''s the way it''s always been, and after all - they hate us, don''t they?  Plus, much as it pains me to say, they do have a better historical record than us in terms of silverware...

People in Ipswich, on the other hand see Norwich as the home of the region''s University; the base for both regional TV companies (and so media bias against Ipswich!?); East Anglian HQ for many businesses; the place for the best shops in the area; the home to important historical and spiritual sites such as the Cathedral, and historical ones such as the Castle.  The list goes on...

 

 

[/quote]

Good post, and i agree that they are generally more bitter than we are.  Lets face it, most of Suffolk come to Norwich for shopping/night out/theatre/restuarants/sight-seeing etc., what on earth has ipswich got exactly? 

It`s also a fact that despite their more successful past on the pitch, we actually have a higher post-war average attendance and most of them know deep down that they are a smaller club who have over-achieved and that really annoys them.

[/quote]

agree with both these points.. how many derbys have we all been too when they hold up 5 fingers and go on about the 5-0.... that was 11 years ago! they dwell on it like it affects us now! It certainly doesnt affect me... same with Gunny''s "whoopsee daisy" moment from 1995...

 Our record in the matches is fairly even...

Ipswich has some nice parks but thats about it... My GF used to live there... i''d go down there on a train about 4 times a week.. its a soulless place, rubbish shops, Some very silly people.

Norwich is a thriving city by contrast... i feel a motorway into the city rather than the piddly little roads we have would open up even more trade and business opportunites and surely for a developing city its needed... we will stagnate if the road network isnt improved... we are 2 hours from London... a decent road could reduce that time... with that comes opportunity and business.... just what this city needs!

 

jas :)

[Marty 0]

but maybe Jas the charm of the city would be lost slightly if the transport links were better?

I think that it is hard to generalise about the people fro Suffolk, some have chips on their shoulders and others are nice as pie. The only current Ipsw*ch person I know is a guy I regularly meet in the gym, but he is really friendly and loves his club, but we both have a laugh at each others club but not in a nasty way, just wind each other up. But then I have seen some real nasty people from that part of the world, really narrow minded and viscious, once when I was holiday in Crete I had to endure a couple laughing when Rob Green got injured playing for England, they were really nasty about it, I had words but I doubt much sunk in! 

Although it is indisputable that Norwich is a far nicer city than their manky town.

 

 

[Harleston Canary 0]

Completely agree - I didn''t mean to generalise about everyone from Ipswich/Suffolk - I wouldn''t still be here if everyone was that bad!

It''s often the case that the distance between places actually adds to the rivalry.  After all we''re 45 miles apart, and over an hour away by road (on a good day believe me).  The chances of actually working, socialising or even being related to an Ipswich fan in Norwich, or vice versa are much slimmer than in other derbies.  If you''re a Liverpool fan you''re going to interact with Everton fans every day of the year, same for the Manchester teams.  But in our situation the lack of direct contact with opposing fans, unless you live in Halesworth, Diss, Lowestoft etc. means that hatreds are easier to hold...Luton and Watford would be similar.

Also agree that these surveys are deeply flawed, but I still find it interesting - it''s almost the last prejudice you''re allowed to hold in public!

 

 

[ipswich and not bitter! 0]

Some thoughts

1. Cambridge is the cultural and intellectual centre of East Anglia - with a world-famous and respected university that is an hour from London. Am not sure that UEA sits in the same league as Cambridge University. As a result of its university, Cambridge attracts the best and brightest young people and teachers etc. and is a cultural and intellectual mecca.

2. You make all these accusations about people from Ipswich being critical and aggressive about Norwich/its people - yet this board is full of views which do exactly the same thing about people from Ipswich! Is not the reality that - in terms of the people - there is no difference between them? Ipswich has some good schools, good firms, nice areas of town with history etc. and it also has some run down areas. I am sure Norwich is the same, although I do agree that Norwich is a very attractive place. I am also sure that most Ipswich and Norwich football fans are actually quite similar - they read the same papers, drink the same lagers/beers etc., have the same views on politics, regional outlook etc!

3. In terms of football, Ipswich Town have undisputedly been the more successful club, in particular, winning the league, FA Cup and UEFA Cup and giving England arguably its two greatest managers - a fantastic achievement for a small/medium club from a small/medium town in the country! If you go to prideofanglia.com, you can actually read all the statistics (if you can be bothered) and it''s staggering how one-sided they are! If, as you seem to suggest, Ipswich is such an awful place with awful people, its football team seems to have done remarkably well over the years!

4. Is not this whole argument a little trite?

 

Best wishes

 

[shefcanary 2,437]

I have the advantage of currently being based in a city where there are two clubs separated only by three miles of the A61.  Your choice of club is not affected by which estate or suburb you live in, it''s down to who your father / grandfather / great grandfather did or which club you saw first time you went to a match, so fans tend to live next door to each other.  In addition most Mondays both sets of supporters have to work together, so the worst the rivalry ever gets is to call each other "pigs" and, as recently, confirm that "our manager is more sh*te than yours".  Sure I have seen the occassional organised punch up on Ecclesall Road but this tends to be the same group of 40 (or is that 50) years olds who did this kind of thing in the 70''s & 80''s.  As most people tend to go out drinking with friends who support the other side, real violence rarely occurs.   There are a few neanderthals who absolutely never converse with anyone who supports the other team but frankly they end up not talking to anyone else anyway so no loss to society there.

Whereas with Norwich & Ipsh*te there is at least 40 miles separation and so there should be little chance of needing to actually get on with the others fans during the week, or come across them at work most days of the week, unless you have ventured to live on opposition territory.   Thus this little geographical distance does enhance the rivalry, as it really does become "them & us".  And when you are not always winning lots of trophies (as in Liverpool v ManUtd and Celtic v Rangers) then the smallest of victories gets magnified ten fold.

So I think the poll has probably got it right looking at it from afar, and I promise you no Ipsh*te fan escapes my bile if they do get within earshot in Sheffield!

[Harleston Canary 0]

[quote user="ipswich and not bitter"]

Some thoughts

1. Cambridge is the cultural and intellectual centre of East Anglia - with a world-famous and respected university that is an hour from London. Am not sure that UEA sits in the same league as Cambridge University. As a result of its university, Cambridge attracts the best and brightest young people and teachers etc. and is a cultural and intellectual mecca.

2. You make all these accusations about people from Ipswich being critical and aggressive about Norwich/its people - yet this board is full of views which do exactly the same thing about people from Ipswich! Is not the reality that - in terms of the people - there is no difference between them? Ipswich has some good schools, good firms, nice areas of town with history etc. and it also has some run down areas. I am sure Norwich is the same, although I do agree that Norwich is a very attractive place. I am also sure that most Ipswich and Norwich football fans are actually quite similar - they read the same papers, drink the same lagers/beers etc., have the same views on politics, regional outlook etc!

3. In terms of football, Ipswich Town have undisputedly been the more successful club, in particular, winning the league, FA Cup and UEFA Cup and giving England arguably its two greatest managers - a fantastic achievement for a small/medium club from a small/medium town in the country! If you go to prideofanglia.com, you can actually read all the statistics (if you can be bothered) and it''s staggering how one-sided they are! If, as you seem to suggest, Ipswich is such an awful place with awful people, its football team seems to have done remarkably well over the years!

4. Is not this whole argument a little trite?

 

Best wishes[/quote]

...and best wishes to you:

Some responses:

1. Your argument about Cambridge holds no water I''m afraid.  The football rivalry is going to be much less intense because we are rarely in the same division as them and there is little history of meaningful league competition between us.  Until recently that has been the same between Ipswich and Colchester - who interestingly seem to dislike Ipswich more than Ipswich dislike them - inferiority complex again?  Of course Cambridge has a stronger history in cultural and historical terms, but due to this fewer people, and certainly fewer football fans from Suffolk, look West - they look North, as it is more comparable in many ways...Look East is another matter - they have their own Western version of the local news so the bias issue is smaller...

Your points about Ipswich are fair: as i said in previous email, I wouldn''t be down this way if it was that awful.  I didn''t claim actually claim that it was awful - I said that people percieve it to be inferior and this leads to resentment.  However, I stand by my observations about Ipswich and Suffolk folk''s dominant attitude to all things Norwich.

2. This message board is not representative of the general public in Norwich - it''s for football fans - why else would you be on here?  My experiences, as I wrote, go far beyond anyone who has a serious interest in football.  The rivalry to them is about the places, not just the teams.

3. I made the same point about Ipswich Town''s success - how can i dispute that? It''s in the record books for all to see.  And you''re right, they have a superb record of producing talented managers. 

But, how can there be a link between how ''awful'' or not a place is and the success of its football team?  On that basis Cambridge United, Bath City, and Stratford on Avon town would be battling for the Premier League title and Champions'' League spots, whilst the two Liverpool teams would be in the Blue Square Premier at best...it''s a non-argument.

4. As for being trite - I haven''t seen this argument anywhere else recently.

Kind Regards

[Harleston Canary 0]

[quote user="ipswich and not bitter"]

Some thoughts

1. Cambridge is the cultural and intellectual centre of East Anglia - with a world-famous and respected university that is an hour from London. Am not sure that UEA sits in the same league as Cambridge University. As a result of its university, Cambridge attracts the best and brightest young people and teachers etc. and is a cultural and intellectual mecca.

2. You make all these accusations about people from Ipswich being critical and aggressive about Norwich/its people - yet this board is full of views which do exactly the same thing about people from Ipswich! Is not the reality that - in terms of the people - there is no difference between them? Ipswich has some good schools, good firms, nice areas of town with history etc. and it also has some run down areas. I am sure Norwich is the same, although I do agree that Norwich is a very attractive place. I am also sure that most Ipswich and Norwich football fans are actually quite similar - they read the same papers, drink the same lagers/beers etc., have the same views on politics, regional outlook etc!

3. In terms of football, Ipswich Town have undisputedly been the more successful club, in particular, winning the league, FA Cup and UEFA Cup and giving England arguably its two greatest managers - a fantastic achievement for a small/medium club from a small/medium town in the country! If you go to prideofanglia.com, you can actually read all the statistics (if you can be bothered) and it''s staggering how one-sided they are! If, as you seem to suggest, Ipswich is such an awful place with awful people, its football team seems to have done remarkably well over the years!

4. Is not this whole argument a little trite?

 

Best wishes[/quote]

...and best wishes to you:

Some responses:

1. Your argument about Cambridge holds no water I''m afraid.  The football rivalry is going to be much less intense because we are rarely in the same division as them and there is little history of meaningful league competition between us.  Until recently that has been the same between Ipswich and Colchester - who interestingly seem to dislike Ipswich more than Ipswich dislike them - inferiority complex again?  Of course Cambridge has a stronger history in cultural and historical terms, but due to this fewer people, and certainly fewer football fans from Suffolk, look West - they look North, as it is more comparable in many ways...Look East is another matter - they have their own Western version of the local news so the bias issue is smaller...

Your points about Ipswich are fair: as i said in previous email, I wouldn''t be down this way if it was that awful.  I didn''t claim actually claim that it was awful - I said that people percieve it to be inferior and this leads to resentment.  However, I stand by my observations about Ipswich and Suffolk folk''s dominant attitude to all things Norwich.

2. This message board is not representative of the general public in Norwich - it''s for football fans - why else would you be on here?  My experiences, as I wrote, go far beyond anyone who has a serious interest in football.  The rivalry to them is about the places, not just the teams.

3. I made the same point about Ipswich Town''s success - how can i dispute that? It''s in the record books for all to see.  And you''re right, they have a superb record of producing talented managers. 

But, how can there be a link between how ''awful'' or not a place is and the success of its football team?  On that basis Cambridge United, Bath City, and Stratford on Avon town would be battling for the Premier League title and Champions'' League spots, whilst the two Liverpool teams would be in the Blue Square Premier at best...it''s a non-argument.

4. As for being trite - I haven''t seen this argument anywhere else recently.

Kind Regards

[Harleston Canary 0]

[quote user="ipswich and not bitter"]

Some thoughts

1. Cambridge is the cultural and intellectual centre of East Anglia - with a world-famous and respected university that is an hour from London. Am not sure that UEA sits in the same league as Cambridge University. As a result of its university, Cambridge attracts the best and brightest young people and teachers etc. and is a cultural and intellectual mecca.

2. You make all these accusations about people from Ipswich being critical and aggressive about Norwich/its people - yet this board is full of views which do exactly the same thing about people from Ipswich! Is not the reality that - in terms of the people - there is no difference between them? Ipswich has some good schools, good firms, nice areas of town with history etc. and it also has some run down areas. I am sure Norwich is the same, although I do agree that Norwich is a very attractive place. I am also sure that most Ipswich and Norwich football fans are actually quite similar - they read the same papers, drink the same lagers/beers etc., have the same views on politics, regional outlook etc!

3. In terms of football, Ipswich Town have undisputedly been the more successful club, in particular, winning the league, FA Cup and UEFA Cup and giving England arguably its two greatest managers - a fantastic achievement for a small/medium club from a small/medium town in the country! If you go to prideofanglia.com, you can actually read all the statistics (if you can be bothered) and it''s staggering how one-sided they are! If, as you seem to suggest, Ipswich is such an awful place with awful people, its football team seems to have done remarkably well over the years!

4. Is not this whole argument a little trite?

 

Best wishes[/quote]

…and best wishes to you.

 

May I respond?

 

1. Your point about Cambridge in a non-starter.  Of course it is culturally the most important city in East Anglia – that makes its main competitors Oxford and other national centres.  Geographically and historically however, it’s got more in common with the Home Counties.  If you look back Cambridgeshire hasn’t necessarily been classed as part of East Anglia either.  Norfolk, Suffolk and North Essex always have…

 

2. This board is for football fans, and therefore is not wholly representative of the general public in Norwich.  As I pointed out, my experiences extend beyond football fans, and include many people who don’t even like football.  I never claimed Ipswich was ‘awful’ – I said that many people in the area are actually envious of what Norwich has – hence the inferiority complex.  If I felt that badly about the area, I wouldn’t stay down here.  There are many similarities between our clubs and towns/cities, hence the rivalry.

 

3. Again, I conceded that Ipswich’s silverware record was superior to ours – how can I dispute the record books.  They also have an impressive list of former managers. 

 

But to say, and I quote: “If, as you seem to suggest, Ipswich is such an awful place with awful people, its football team seems to have done remarkably well over the years!” seems strange. 

 

How can there be a link between the ‘feel’ of a place and the success of its football team?  On that basis Cambridge United, Bath City  and Stratford-on-Avon Town would be battling for the Premier League title, whiles Liverpool and Everton would be in the Blue Square Premier at best!

 

4. I question my argument being trite – it’s an attempt at an explanation that goes beyond the ‘they hate us’ approach.  Let me know of the other places you’ve seen it.

 

Kind Regards.

 

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

Presume you don''t know anybody that''s been to a West Ham v Millwall game. All the old boys come out and it''s quite an occasion!!!!

[Carrow89 0]

Anyone who has spent anytime in suffolk will soon become aware of the almost obsession they have with Norfolk and Norwich. Attend any game at poorman road and about the only thing they get excited about is anti Norwich chants.Yep they got lucky a few years back - mainly due to the genorosity and benevolnce of the Cobbold brothers. No more exceptional than what has happened at Blackburn.Sadly for our impovershed neighbours they deluded themsleves into believing that all that was needed was another chinless wonder at the helm. Stuck in some ruritanian nether world they''ve seen their club and ground handed over to a bunch of asset strippers whilst they know that for every so called triumph there is a few hgundred more they have stiffed out of money.Even the ''pimply fred'' speaking up on here on their behalf can''t quite grasp the difference between ''banter'' on a City website and an obsession with all things City. Possibly well proven by him being here in the first place.Binners - you would have to have a hard heart not to laugh

[ipswich and not bitter! 0]

1. The point about Cambridge was not a football one - it was a response to the non-football comment by the poster who claimed that Norwich was the "cultural and intellectual mecca" of East Anglia, which it isn''t, for the reasons already outlined.

2. "However, I stand by my observations about Ipswich and Suffolk folk''s dominant attitude to all things Norwich"

Not sure that you can make that sort of judgment on 600,000 people''s views!  Possibly, your view - which is entirely by definition subjective - is influenced by the fact that I presume you are in a minority as being a Norwich fan in Ipswich/Suffolk? One of my friends is an Ipswich fan in Norwich - he has exactly the same view as you that Norwich fans are aggressive towards him and Ipswich!

It seems to me that, ultimately, the "isn''t Norwich a lovely place and isn''t Ipswich awful" is used by Norwich City supporters in an attempt to argue that Norwich City are a better club because they come from a "nicer" place. However, as we have agreed, there is absolutely no competition in respect of which club has been comparitively massively successful, so this argument has no real mileage in it. Norwich are welcome to their lovely city (which is second to Cambridge as a mecca) and average football side, Ipswich fans can compensate the fact that their town isn''t quite as nice as Norwich but that they support a team which has a pedigree and history of (relative to Norwich and all other clubs in the region) massive success! Since I live in a lovely part of town and am fortunate enough to work for a large firm whose head office is in Ipswich, this isn''t a problem for people like me and, ultimately, football comes down to football, not the subjective attractiveness of a place!

3. This was a joke - of course you''re right!

4. It''s trite because the "Ipswich are scum, Norwich are scum" arguments - or their derivatives - are hardly new! And I''ve heard the "we''ve got a cathederal etc etc" line a lot in the past. It''s irrelevant to football!

As I say, best wishes!

 

 

 

[ElmerFudd 0]

Norwich is certainly in a unique situation it has a huge catchment area for both football, shopping and night-life with the nearest football team over 40 miles away which reflects the attendances at these venues. Having lived in "Norfolk and Good" for a few years and educated in the City I have a great deal of affection for the place, the Cathedral and Castle are superb, new shopping centres are soul-less and the the old main shopping areas are a potential death trap with cars going through them.

Ipswich on the other hand has Colchester less than 15 minutes away, and West Ham less than an hour away - that''s without counting Southend and Cambridge who don''t really count, so the support for the Tractor Boys is pretty good, in what is without doubt the best and largest stadium in the region (venue for England before anyone shouts). The town suffered badly from 60''s planners - you guys never mention Anglia Square! - but is gradually improving, the waterfront is excellent with one of he finest hotels in East Anglia overlooking the huge marina and the new Uni opening beside it in a few months.

On a wider geographic front, north Norfolk is fantastic and on a par with the Suffolk Heritage Coast, but Yarmouth and Lowestoft are both blightly be unemployment and chavs. Interesting that the sainted Gunny often picks Southwold as his favourite place as does Ms Carol Bundock (BBC) who is the deputy Lieutenant of Norfolk. It''s of course the home of Adnams, which along with Greene King, St Peter''s, Maldon''s and others makes Suffolk the home of real beer and lets face it Norfolk has Woodfoord''s and lots of lager as result of the Watneys era.

Norwich has a so-called airport, but really its a joke, from the Ipswich area it is quicker to go to Stansted a real international airport. That is of course because all the major roads lead to Felixstowe there are near motorway routes to London and the Midlands where as beyond Mildenhall the All turns into a farm track, this has cost Norwich and Norfolk millions in jobs and investment - just ask why the famous Jarrold printing company shut down.

A final comment on Suffolk, it must be good, it''s where Delia and Michael have chosen to live for 30 years!

As for the rivalry it is indeed silly as mostly the two sets of supporters hardly every meet, the real hatred is in Diss, Eye, Harleston, Bungay, Beccles and Lowestoft where the Town supporters are totally out numbered. The chip on the shoulder thing about the media is also daft, but based on truth, how many times in January have we seen the 59 cup run on tellie, which actually just highlights Nobitch''s failure.

However the rivaly goes back generations, perhaps even to the South-folk and the North-folk, I remeber watching Bygones in the 70''s about the trains which took workers to Burton on Trent, leaving from Ipswich with 300 hundred on board, picking up at Stowmarket and Diss before Norwich; then the train had hardly left Trowse before all hell let loose in a bucolic battle.

Good luck to City, but I fancy it will be a long time before you can think of anyone worth putting up a statue for outside Carrot Ruud and at the end of the day it''s footie that matters not how many john lewis''s your got.

 

[Carrow89 0]

What an odd post from the pitchfork juggler.  Confuses catchment area with population within. Odd how the attendance at poorman road is down to that catchment area - no talk of that when the binners were in the premiership. Even odder is the remark " that''s without counting Southend and Cambridge who don''t really count " eh ?No real understanding that although delia and hubby live in suffolk they choose to involve themselves with City rather than your semi ruritanian set up . A set up that you claim has the largest stadium in the area - surely though West Ham is in your area otherwise it would not be in competition for crowds as you claim.  No mention of the fact that your stdium was built with such financial incompetence that you had to go cap in hand around the country looking for a saviour, having previously stiffed the community when you went tits up. In desperation you''ve had to hand over your club, players and ground for less than £4m.As to putting up statues there''s barely little else to do around poorman road. A backward looking community with backward looking fans. Given how bleak your future is, past glorys are about all you have to enjoy.Just a shame that the media doesn''t seem to share that view.

[Mr.Carrow 378]

Well i am now approaching middle age and all i know of you lots past "glories" is what you spout off about when you get wound up, and a few reruns of old MOTD`s on cable. I believe Burnley were once a top, successful club but can anyone remember what they won? I`m sorry chaps but the sad truth is that as each year goes by, your history gets less and less relevant, and for people under 35 City have shaded the honours in our little battle.

I suppose at least if you scrape promotion you can look forward to seeing those swathes of empty seats filled by hordes from Man.U, Arsenal, W.Ham and Chelsea as, lets face it, you can`t fill them with your own supporters can you?[:$]

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I''m a Norfolk man but I like both counties. I know little of Ipswich or Felixstowe but Bury and Sudbury are attractive towns and Suffolk in general is a well kept county.

Sorry I cannot be more small minded but I tend to see the majority of our supporters as very similar in background, that is not to say I don''t always want City to beat or do better than Town and that said again I would take a victory over one of the Sky top 4 before Town any day - especially Man Utd as there is nothing I like to do more than ram it down the throat of the local glory hunter fans rather than our home club supporting cousins.

Rather than have this pathetic hatred of supporters who, like us, follow their local team I prefer to have a contempt of local people who never visit either Club except when Man Utd are visiting and like to wear their team shirts in Norfolk and Suffolk pubs on a Saturday night.

One of the benefits of playing in The Championship is seeing real supporters - like those from Blackpool - and I respect all these fans....including Ipswich.

[ElmerFudd 0]

I’m happy for you guys to set the calendar to wherever you think it makes you sound good. The fact is that teams of significance have ‘history’ and the Budgies simply don’t meet that criterion.

 

If you want to only talk about the last 2 seasons then you will see that Town finished last year and remain now above you in the league. If you want to go back 5 years then, hat’s off to City you had a period in the big league, but we all know that ended in tears at Fulham. If you want to go back 10 years then Town have ended up above you 6 or 7 times. So whether you are under 35 or under 13 like your correspondent ‘Mr Wright’ on this forum, with his silly insults, I’m happy to play my Dad’s bigger than your Dad.

 

I’m pleased to read that you guys have some strange concern over Town’s finances, we are now actually very comfortable with them, having blagged Norwich Union and Barclays for millions we now have a benign benefactor. City are also haemorrhaging cash, but had some parachute money and gord-bless-er you have had psychedelia to pay the wages for years. Buying the land around Carrot Ruud and selling it to build those ugly flats and even uglier motel (rather than increase your meagre capacity) was a stroke of genius and has kept you a float, however at some point in the future, City will join the c21 and be sold to someone with big money just as the teams of significance have all around England.

 

As previously stated, Norwich is indeed a nicer place than Ipswich, but so is Bath, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Oxford, Stratford-upon-Avon, Harrogate et so what''s your point? The argument is about footie and City are what they are, and to quote Mr Hansen “form is temporary, class is permanent” a thing that your guys in Burberry just can’t grasp.

 

End of!

[Carrow89 0]

"but I tend to see the majority of our supporters as very similar in background2were it ever to be true ?suffolk is full of cock-er-neez as well they will tell us and anyone else bothered to listenhence the pee taking reference to them by the media as tractor boys

[Harleston Canary 0]

I''ve really enjoyed the recent posts, but I think it''s time to clarify my position, for the last time.  Despite the way in which my arguments may have been taken, this is how I truly feel:

1. My points about the relative merits of the two areas was based on the way that I perceive it to ''infect'' the views of football supporters. In my opinion (for what it''s worth) the rivalry in Suffolk is about much more than football, I''m still not convinced that the same can be said in Norfolk.  I said that the merits of Cambridge as a ''cultural mecca'' was a side issue because we don''t have an intense football rivalry between us. The arguments about how ''awful'' either place (Ipswich or Norwich) is, is a side-issue and one i''m not that bothered about.

2. I actually think we (Ipswich Town and Norwich City ) have more that unites us than divides us.  We are similar in size, both patronised by the national media as being parochial ''nice'' teams, and both suffer the issues of recruitment and retention of players associated with being ''geographically isolated''.  As they say, familiarity breeds contempt...

3. I know of many Ipswich supporters with whom I can share a balanced football discussion.  They too wish me and my team well, save for a little leg-pulling which I would get no matter who I supported.  I bet the same is true of Ipswich supporters living in Norwich.

4. What I don''t like (which will probably annoy many posters on here) is the vile ''hatred'' and bile spouted by many in discussions about Ipswich and Norwich. 

They''re our local rivals and should be treated as such; they are not responsible for the mass slaughter of our brethren or crimes against the inhabitants of our county. 

Love and best wishes to you all. Peace out.

[Mr.Carrow 378]

Ok Mr Fudd, according to your logic most clubs in the Prem and Championship are still living in the mighty Burnleys shadow because they won some things in the dim and distant past......[:|] Thats about as close to reality as your assumption that you have a "benign benefactor". Sincere thanks for the genuine LOL though [:D]

As to our own finances, i have issues with the clubs priorities on infrastructure spending in recent years, but the fact is we have remaining land with planning permission worth over £10m. If the land can be sold and the board persuaded to back our excellent manager to the hilt with the money, i would genuinely rather be in our situation than your murky one.