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[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]there will always be cases of failures such as our own and liverpool''s but there are sucess stories too what about southampton? they''ve had theo walcott and gareth bale come through?
[/quote] Walcott was sold, did Southampton spend the money on the pitch? on new players? If Martin proves to be a good player NCPLC would sell him at the drop of a hat just to finance their off the pitch ambitions. Remember FOOTBALL will never come first at Carrow Rd while NCPLC runs our club.

 

FOOTBALL must come first

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I think you can relate this to the "limit the number of foreigners?" thread, Benitez appears to prefer to buy his players from Spain so it is hardly surprising that youngsters fail to break into the first team, that said the youg stars coming through the ranks at Anfield does appear to have dried up. Personally I believe that a good acamedy set up is crucial for less well off clubs such as ourselves in terms of both developing players good enough to play at whatever level we find ourselves without the need to spend large amounts on transfers and as a means of revenue if we unearth really talented kids as per Bale, Walcott, Hudlestone and Giles Barnes etc.

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Apart from the issue of overseas players destroying the prospects of young British players coming through with the bigger clubs.....we should also remember that alot of the so called "rejects" end up at clubs like ours where the "late developers" are given a second chance.. They can either make it at the lower level itself....or be sold on again later to the big clubs to keep the money-go-round working.

It''s a disaster long term...but I fear it''s too late to do anything about it with the present league structure.

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I agree with Sons of Boadicea regarding Academies the only problem is that the rules now state each club can only recruit from within a limited catchment area from where their ground is situated. Again this puts N.C.F.C at a disadvantage against, for example, inner city based club. the Premiership has created serious problems for football which are now only coming to light. The Premiership was supposedly set up to assist football as a whole but all you have now is the big three sitting on the gravy train getting richer while the rest sink.

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[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]

I think you can relate this to the "limit the number of foreigners?" thread, Benitez appears to prefer to buy his players from Spain so it is hardly surprising that youngsters fail to break into the first team, that said the youg stars coming through the ranks at Anfield does appear to have dried up. Personally I believe that a good acamedy set up is crucial for less well off clubs such as ourselves in terms of both developing players good enough to play at whatever level we find ourselves without the need to spend large amounts on transfers and as a means of revenue if we unearth really talented kids as per Bale, Walcott, Hudlestone and Giles Barnes etc.

[/quote]I think what Benitez is saying is that he doesn''t have the option of using homegrown talent - it isn''t good enough. What interests me is that he''s complained about this publicly a few times, and the status quo carried on, which shows how limited the manager''s power is within that club. Is it the same in ours? My impression of our academy is that it''s a kindergarten version of the comfort zone that the grown-ups operate in at NCFC. Not enough is expected of our youngsters in return for providing them with the much-trumpeted facilities. As I''ve said before, if the academy''s not producing, shut it down. If the catchment area''s too restricted to be viable, close it and save the money.

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[quote user="BB FOOTBALL FIRST"]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]there will always be cases of failures such as our own and liverpool''s but there are sucess stories too what about southampton? they''ve had theo walcott and gareth bale come through?
[/quote] Walcott was sold, did Southampton spend the money on the pitch? on new players? If Martin proves to be a good player NCPLC would sell him at the drop of a hat just to finance their off the pitch ambitions. Remember FOOTBALL will never come first at Carrow Rd while NCPLC runs our club.

 

FOOTBALL must come first

[/quote]

What ARE you talking about. Who do you mean by NCPLC and what off field activities have taken money from the club?

 

 

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[quote user="BB FOOTBALL FIRST"]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]there will always be cases of failures such as our own and liverpool''s but there are sucess stories too what about southampton? they''ve had theo walcott and gareth bale come through?[/quote] Walcott was sold, did Southampton spend the money on the pitch? on new players? If Martin proves to be a good player NCPLC would sell him at the drop of a hat just to finance their off the pitch ambitions. Remember FOOTBALL will never come first at Carrow Rd while NCPLC runs our club.

 

FOOTBALL must come first

[/quote]Well i don''t agree but thats not really the point that was being made the article was about the failings of the academy system as benitez saw it i was just trying to say that southampton must be doing something right at theirs to have produced two players of the calibre of walcott & bale, how they have or have not spent the money from walcott''s sale is irelevant to my point.

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The main problem with most clubs is that the 2 year scholarships for the Academy players finish at 18.A decision is then made as to whether a pro contract is offered or they are released.This decision is based on where they are at that moment in their developement. If you are Rooney you are fully developed physically at 16 and able to compete against stronger players, if not even though you may have the ability and pace and technical awareness you are cast aside to the lower leagues where the emphasis is even more on strength and power and less on technique. These players fed up with a constant battering from thugs at maybe conference level leave the game as they are deemed lightweight.

Some who persevere return at 21/22 years of age  to carve out lucrative careers in football others move abroad where their technical ability is rewarded.Some even return to haunt the clubs that released them,but the majority through a lack of care disappear into the abyss. Chris Martin features at present not completely because of his ability but because he is physically ready for the demands of a championship game,he is at present able to compete,others by comparison suffer in partricular the likes of Eagle and Fisk. 

Why do clubs who spend fortunes with boys from the age of 8 suddenly cast them aside because they did not mature at exactly the correct time.Patience would be a virtue with these clubs but because of the need for instant success and teenage stars they miss a trick.This then explains why clubs like ours spend money on 24 year olds who no one knows when maybe we should wait for our own home grown talents which may need a extra one or two years to mature.

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[quote user="No 9 - Bly"][quote user="BB FOOTBALL FIRST"]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]there will always be cases of failures such as our own and liverpool''s but there are sucess stories too what about southampton? they''ve had theo walcott and gareth bale come through?
[/quote] Walcott was sold, did Southampton spend the money on the pitch? on new players? If Martin proves to be a good player NCPLC would sell him at the drop of a hat just to finance their off the pitch ambitions. Remember FOOTBALL will never come first at Carrow Rd while NCPLC runs our club.

 

FOOTBALL must come first

[/quote]

What ARE you talking about. Who do you mean by NCPLC and what off field activities have taken money from the club?

 

 

[/quote]

NCPLC is Norwich City P.L.C. which puts money and all their off the pitch ambitions before what ever happens on the pitch and in case they have forgotten again its FOOTBALL

The hotel is not for free what ever they say, there is always, costs and fees and that''s without the seating lost for more paying fans. Carrow Rd full every game and a waiting list but they dont want more seating, NCPLC again.

The restaurant that took ¬£mills to refurbish including the upper Barclay entrance The board would not say where the money came from but it was finished the week they sold Bellamy remember? The old restaurant made a profit before NCPLC took over.

The above and always budgeting for relegation never for promotion are my big beefs with the club, oh yes and the club becoming elitist. Another rant over.

 

FOOTBALL must come first

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[quote user="No 9 - Bly"][quote user="BB FOOTBALL FIRST"]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]there will always be cases of failures such as our own and liverpool''s but there are sucess stories too what about southampton? they''ve had theo walcott and gareth bale come through?
[/quote] Walcott was sold, did Southampton spend the money on the pitch? on new players? If Martin proves to be a good player NCPLC would sell him at the drop of a hat just to finance their off the pitch ambitions. Remember FOOTBALL will never come first at Carrow Rd while NCPLC runs our club.

 

FOOTBALL must come first

[/quote]

What ARE you talking about. Who do you mean by NCPLC and what off field activities have taken money from the club?

 

 

[/quote]

Errrr.....I think he means the "off the field activities"......as opposed to what we pay good money to go and watch.....the bloody football team.

To use a "Melloism" here.......you have the distinct smell of a club employee....and so yet another non-playing member of staff  "taking money from the club"..........

Booooooo to you........[N]

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[quote user="Hump"]

The main problem with most clubs is that the 2 year scholarships for the Academy players finish at 18.A decision is then made as to whether a pro contract is offered or they are released.This decision is based on where they are at that moment in their developement. If you are Rooney you are fully developed physically at 16 and able to compete against stronger players, if not even though you may have the ability and pace and technical awareness you are cast aside to the lower leagues where the emphasis is even more on strength and power and less on technique. These players fed up with a constant battering from thugs at maybe conference level leave the game as they are deemed lightweight.

Some who persevere return at 21/22 years of age  to carve out lucrative careers in football others move abroad where their technical ability is rewarded.Some even return to haunt the clubs that released them,but the majority through a lack of care disappear into the abyss. Chris Martin features at present not completely because of his ability but because he is physically ready for the demands of a championship game,he is at present able to compete,others by comparison suffer in partricular the likes of Eagle and Fisk. 

Why do clubs who spend fortunes with boys from the age of 8 suddenly cast them aside because they did not mature at exactly the correct time.Patience would be a virtue with these clubs but because of the need for instant success and teenage stars they miss a trick.This then explains why clubs like ours spend money on 24 year olds who no one knows when maybe we should wait for our own home grown talents which may need a extra one or two years to mature.

[/quote]

Just too slow full stop i fully agree with your point hump, about developement but please could you square the above circle

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You tend to find the academy/youth successes go in cycles. In 83/84 we saw the likes of Goss, Donowa, Rosario & Gordon energe from the Youth ranks (plus a few others who made occasional appearances such as Clayton, Rigby etc) and then over the next 4/5 years only Fox broke through to the first team. Then in 1990 we had Sutton, Sutch and Ullathorne and thena few years of nothing before Eadie, Marshall, Cureton, Akinibiyi & O''Neill came through in 93/94. Then again a gap before the Green, Bellamy, Llewelyn, Kenton, Russell & Forbes all came through together cicra 1997. Then nothing until Shackell, Henderson & Jarvis in 2003 and now we have the current crop of promising players such as Martin, Lewis, Eagle & Spillane. If only 2 of these make the breakthrough then the academy has probably worked.

What the above shows is that it seems to be 10 years since our academy produced a real top drawer talent (Bellamy & Green). The reason for this would seem to be the limitation placed on clubs in that they can only stock their academy with youngsters within a relatively small area (2hrs travel time, I think?). This restricts us greatly and lets be honest Norfolk hasn''t always been a hotbed of footballing talent! Unfortunately, a club of our size really needs to be producing at least one first team player from every intake of its academy and preferably 2 or 3 of which one would hopefully be a "top drawer" talent and the others decent regular first team players with, in an ideal world another couple emerging as squad players. The 1997 group was the perfect example; 2 top players (Bellars & Green), 3 decent players in Kenton, Llewellyn & Russell and some squad players (Forbes, Coote, Che Wilson).

Lets hope the current crop produce something for us to get excited by.

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The problem of having so many foreign players is not because it''s a risk with young talented home nation players it is because these players are on huge wages compared to their african, eastern europen and american counter-parts. As much as most managers would prefer to have an all english/scottish/welsh team they can''t. Examples are like Spurs and Fulham who have huge wage bills compared to the quality in their team. Another problem is most of these youngster think they own the place and are just far too arrogant for their own good and it''s costing them. Most of the don''t seem to care anymore but you see players like Kolo Toure who arrive unknown and don''t look so great, and work really hard and become world class players. It''s the whole system that''s at fault. I feel that both the Reserve and Youth league''s don''t work. In reserve football we play a match every 2 months and that''s against Stevenage. Really the reserve teams should be split so that the prem have their own  reserve league. But then the old south/north split for all the teams in the championship and league 1 and then the league 2 and conference have their own too. The youth sytem could be scrapped for a system of U20 matches where players who are brought in when they are young can play. Most of our excellent talent in the past haven''t originally come straight from the area into the youth teams but from smaller teams in lower leagues such as Bruce and others who came in as youngesters after matches. We''re missing out right now, and so are loads of other teams which are missing out on players like Sharp, Billy Jones, McLeod and others who have the potential to be good players.

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Remember that we have no money to speak of. As has been said many times before the club cannot borrow money to purchase footballers.  Any borrowing must be set against assets. The club assets are mortgaged up to the limit that the banks or lenders will stand.  If there is a backer out there who wishes to buy and keep the club and not become an asset stripper; well and good.  If not then we will as fans have to put up with a slow build up of commercial enterprises on NCFC property.  Which quite simply will then generate an asset, that money borrowed can be set against.  Quite simple really isn''t it?

This is why slating the board, Delia, etc is just blatant stupidity.  Just the in the same way we are silly enough to expect our bargain basement purchases to perform like the Beckhams, Ronaldos, Terry''s etc.etc.  As we are placed at this present time we will always be a bargain basement buying club.  Given time and patience and luck we may well be a force to be reckoned with.  But how the messages are framed for debate on these boards it looks as if many are wishing for the present board and management to go in the same direction as Leeds etc, I think we must be careful what we say or we might realise those foolhardy wishes. OTBC!!!

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As per above^^^...... I cannot help but feel that we HAVE produced players of the calibre of Daryl Russell and Chris Llewellyn in the last few years, and players BETTER than Adrain Coote (isnt he playing in front of 20 people now?) and Adrian Forbes. These players include Paul Hayes and Danny Crow, it is not our inability to produce players but the managements inability to realise the potential of these players. Hence the reason that Paul Hayes was never given a game and Danny Crow, who commanded less per week than Ian Henderson!!, was released after a few sub appearances in the premiership. Che Wilson has had rave reviews for his Southend performances (and was more consistent than Sutch when released) in the championship this year.....

Also, not many people realise that Bobby Zamora.... who many have touted as a possible good acquisition for the club, was released from this club at the age of 15 for being ''too short''.... he is now well over 6 foot....

In relation to the ''within one hour and a half'' rule, what about the talented youngsters that were raised in Norfolk who are playing for other clubs? John Sutton is scoring loads in Scotland, Chris Cohen played over 20 games at West Ham before moving to Yeovil this summer (left footed and about 20 years old)....

It is not the inability of our local region to produce talented players... Worthy never gave youth a chance.....

Oh yeh, and the bloke earlier in this thread forgot to mention Danny Mills and, dear i say it, Andy Marshall, Andy Johnson......

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[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="BB FOOTBALL FIRST"]

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]there will always be cases of failures such as our own and liverpool''s but there are sucess stories too what about southampton? they''ve had theo walcott and gareth bale come through?
[/quote] Walcott was sold, did Southampton spend the money on the pitch? on new players? If Martin proves to be a good player NCPLC would sell him at the drop of a hat just to finance their off the pitch ambitions. Remember FOOTBALL will never come first at Carrow Rd while NCPLC runs our club.

 

FOOTBALL must come first

[/quote]

Well i don''t agree but thats not really the point that was being made the article was about the failings of the academy system as benitez saw it i was just trying to say that southampton must be doing something right at theirs to have produced two players of the calibre of walcott & bale, how they have or have not spent the money from walcott''s sale is irelevant to my point.
[/quote] Well how do you think NCPLC would spend the money from a city Walcott?

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[quote user="BB FOOTBALL FIRST"][quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"][quote user="BB FOOTBALL FIRST"]  In my opinion there have, as has been said, academy produced youngsters that have elsewhere made the grade.  The boot up the backside has been the realisation by the youngsters in question, they have been told by NCFC that the level they have reached is not what is expected of them.  Suddenly those young men have been removed from a family comfort zone and are made patently aware that what they produced here is not exceptable.  All of a sudden they then get their fingers out and produce that extra effort that guarantees them a job!!  What many young people do is treat their home surroundings and comfort zone that they are in (NCFC) with the acceptance that to survive here, one can be second rate and just amble arround and take for granted what is on offer.  This is not the case, for continuous effort is necessary to improve on the skills that one has, and continuous proof on a personal level that as a young man wishing to be employed in an athletic envoirenment has at all times to be abreast of the challenge.  Therefore one has to prove to one''s employers that you are indeed up for the challenge.  I had to proove that at 14years of age by my own efforts and my own motivation, to the bosses in those days how much effort I was prepared to put in for my money, They would not bother with a reluctant apprentice, so, in the first week no effort no job.  In other words young people who have tallent should express it willingly and not have to be cajolled and patted on the head to produce it. OTBC!!!!

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"]there will always be cases of failures such as our own and liverpool''s but there are sucess stories too what about southampton? they''ve had theo walcott and gareth bale come through?
[/quote] Walcott was sold, did Southampton spend the money on the pitch? on new players? If Martin proves to be a good player NCPLC would sell him at the drop of a hat just to finance their off the pitch ambitions. Remember FOOTBALL will never come first at Carrow Rd while NCPLC runs our club.

 

FOOTBALL must come first

[/quote]

Well i don''t agree but thats not really the point that was being made the article was about the failings of the academy system as benitez saw it i was just trying to say that southampton must be doing something right at theirs to have produced two players of the calibre of walcott & bale, how they have or have not spent the money from walcott''s sale is irelevant to my point.
[/quote] Well how do you think NCPLC would spend the money from a city Walcott?[/quote]

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[quote user="Grumpy "]

I agree with Sons of Boadicea regarding Academies the only problem is that the rules now state each club can only recruit from within a limited catchment area from where their ground is situated. Again this puts N.C.F.C at a disadvantage against, for example, inner city based club. the Premiership has created serious problems for football which are now only coming to light. The Premiership was supposedly set up to assist football as a whole but all you have now is the big three sitting on the gravy train getting richer while the rest sink.

[/quote]

I strongly agree with this. I believe that the cut off is something like 90miles or an hour and a halfs drive or something rediculous like that.

It simply doesn''t work because most of that distance from Norwich is in the sea! The only other places within that radious have teams of their own, Cambridge, Ipswich, Lincon. You may just catch the northern tip of London if your lucky.

You can see how that helps Ipswich who are what 40 miles closer to London?

It just means that more has to be put into scouting our kids here and any that have the drive and passion should be monitered even if they remain with their school. Norfolk for its size is one of the least populated areas of the country so we have to make do with what we have and get a good scouting system going.

It is a shame because you look at all of the young players that came through recently and the new ruling would mean that none of them would have played for us - I think even Shackel is from down south if I remember correctly, no Bellamy, Green etc.

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