Why I don't like LOAN signings

[First Wizard 0]

Because they usually work out expensive and the player is never FULLY committed to the club. Take our latest ''con'' signing Marshall:

http://new.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED23%20Jan%202007%2009%3A16%3A42%3A617

Sounds committed to me!.................... not. And while we''re on the goal keeping issue, whats happened to young  Camp?, at least he sounded like he wanted to come here on a more permanent basis.

Loan signings never develope any affinity for the club or its fans (Hucks excluded!) an in general are only using said club as a way out for brighter things.

They are cash gusslers, squad upsetters and no better than  money grabbers.

Agreed?.

[Tumbleweed 106]

No. Successful loanees in the last two years or so I can think of immediately would include Peter Crouch, Kevin Harper, Kevin Cooper, Calum Davenport, Jonatan Johansson and Dean Marney (when the latter two were actually allowed to play).

Admittedly there have been some poor ones (such as Lisbie, Rehman, Bentley, Stuart) but I see the success/failure rate as no worse than permanent signings and the risk is at least lower.

The issue for me is actually getting the right balance as an over reliance on short term loanees could create an unsettled squad but it doesn''t necessarily have that result if done properly.

[First Jedi 0]

No.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

Sort of agree with you......sort of

Try looking at it this way.  Marshall, not first choice at Celtic but I would imagine he wants to be.  What better way to force your way into the managers plans than to play a blinder at your loan club.  Lee Hendrie, probably doesn''t want a move to Stoke permanently but by playing exceptionally well puts him in the shop window for a better club.

Loan signings can be very effective, but I agree they can be a drain on the resources.  Especially when you get a dud one (Zesh Rehman). 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]

No. Successful loanees in the last two years or so I can think of immediately would include Peter Crouch, Kevin Harper, Kevin Cooper, Calum Davenport, Jonatan Johansson and Dean Marney (when the latter two were actually allowed to play).

[/quote]

Successful loanees eh Tumbleweed, hmm?.

Lets examine your choices shall we?.

Is that the same ''red card Harper'' I recall so well with his suicidal tackling, or Peter ''you can''t afford me Crouch?. JJ, apart from his scum goal, never set Carrow Road alight did he?, in fact, he kept the bench warm more than the pitch!!

Dean Marny didn''t!, Kevin Harper was bloody average at best. Although Davenport was to be fair, a class player.

Still, its all about opinions I guess.

[Chris Meadows 0]

yeah Huckerby and Crouch were terrible, completely ruined us that season

[Tumbleweed 106]

It is about opinions and I would have had all the ones I mentioned permanently. I think you are being unduly harsh on KH and JJ who both looked sharp and skilful to me (one of our greatest players ever Mr Fleck got sent off regularly) and had we bought PC straight away we might have won a match or two before it got too late. KC was a revelation on the wide right in place of fat gut McVeigh in those last 10 games or so before the Championship was one. Dean Marney had determination, pace and a lashing right foot shot but was shuffled out right as one of NW''s great tactical misjudgements.

Now, were those players any worse than many of our permanent signings? I fear not- look at some of the dross we have signed recently and its quite appalling plus we can''t easily get rid of them either which is one reason we are stuck in this downward spiral of despair. Helveg, Jonsson, Charlton, Robinson, Hughes, Thorne, Doherty not exactly enough to isnpire confidence and many others like Etuhu, Safri,  McKenzie have looked very good at times but not up to scratch at others.

Successful permanent signings over the last two/three years or so are sparse- Earnshaw, Huckerby, Ashton are stand outs but even Svensson who I thought was terrific left many unconvinced. The aforementioned Doherty can look alright but a central defender who regularly chops down opponents in front of the 18 yard box ain''t going to get us back into the Prem let alone stay there..........

If we had those names I mentioned as successful loaness in our team right now we would be looking down at Brum and Preston right now, not at Southend and Leeds.

[blahblahblah 2]

Looking out of my kitchen window this morning, I saw that the local ASBO-dodgers had written their names in huge letters on my patio in mud.  I don''t like LOAM signings...

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

Peter ''you can''t afford me'' Crouch, you can''t afford me but I will bang in a few goals to help with your promotion push, my hold up play will be exceptional and I will give every game my all my all while I am with you.  Quality loan signing....

Dean Marney, played out of position by Worthy, glimpses of quality before serious injury.  Can''t judge him fairly, never know what might have been.  I would have him now though...

Harper, average at best!!! We must have been watching different games cause I thought he did well on the right.  My opinion, success.

Agree though with JJ, Rehman, Cooper, Lisbie, Hammond, all poor signings and a complete waste of money.

Bentley, sorry just don''t know about him.  Maybe the ''have it'' incident ruined what could have been good.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Chris Meadows"]

yeah Huckerby and Crouch were terrible, completely ruined us that season

[/quote]

I think you''ll find I acknowledged Hucks Chris.

[Evil Monkey 52]

Cooper was excellent on the right for us, never scored but was always dangerous.  Remember the Watford away game, the one they showed on a screen at Carrow Road, he was outstanding that day and a constant menace.  How people can''t rate him, I don''t know... it''s a shame really that Wolves were determined to hold onto him for their season back in the Championship as I think he could have done a better job that anyone else who played on the right in our Prem season, Bentley included. (Oh god, now I''ve just remembered Graham Stuuuuuurt... shudder...)

[nutty nigel 7,567]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

And while we''re on the goal keeping issue, whats happened to young  Camp?, at least he sounded like he wanted to come here on a more permanent basis.

Loan signings never develope any affinity for the club or its fans (Hucks excluded!) an in general are only using said club as a way out for brighter things.

They are cash gusslers, squad upsetters and no better than  money grabbers.

Agreed?.

[/quote]

But surely young Camp was a loan signing?

 

[djc 0]

Leigh Bromby from Sheffield Wednesday was one loan signing i was disappointed that Worthy didnt finalise the permanent signing of.

He was good when he was here, and his long-throw ability added a new dimension to our game.

 

[Hucka Hucka Huckerby 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="Tumbleweed"]

No. Successful loanees in the last two years or so I can think of immediately would include Peter Crouch, Kevin Harper, Kevin Cooper, Calum Davenport, Jonatan Johansson and Dean Marney (when the latter two were actually allowed to play).

[/quote]

Successful loanees eh Tumbleweed, hmm?.

Lets examine your choices shall we?.

Is that the same ''red card Harper'' I recall so well with his suicidal tackling, or Peter ''you can''t afford me Crouch?. JJ, apart from his scum goal, never set Carrow Road alight did he?, in fact, he kept the bench warm more than the pitch!!

Dean Marny didn''t!, Kevin Harper was bloody average at best. Although Davenport was to be fair, a class player.

Still, its all about opinions I guess.

[/quote]

Crouch was class when he was here, JJ too was class but Worthy decided to drop him too the bench, (I''ll never know why) Harper was ok but was suspended for 3 matches so was a waste of money, Davenport was awesome in my book, Marney was average at best, Bentley could have been better but the injury stopped us finding out & I don''t have to comment on Hucks. So over all, in the last few seasons good loan signings have out weighed the bad.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

The loan signings we''ve had have proven to be as fully committed to the

club as any permanent signings. ie. depends on who they were. Hucks,

Crouch, Harper, right mid from Wolves in the playoff season?, David

Healey, JJ, Bentley, Marney, Davenport came with differing levels of

success but you can''t argue they didn''t work for their money. Don''t

forget they''re often looking for a permanent move so at least are

motivated, and if they don''t work out we send ''em back.

As for being money grabbers, hardly think they set up the deals do

they. If they''re really money grabbers they''d sit in their owners

reserve teams rather than drop down a division (often) and run the risk

of injury etc. You don''t half talk some twaddle don''t you.

[Hartsons Gut 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Because they usually work out expensive and the player is never FULLY committed to the club. Take our latest ''con'' signing Marshall:

http://new.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline
&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED23%20Jan%202007%2009%3A16%3A42%3A617

Sounds committed to me!.................... not. And while we''re on the goal keeping issue, whats happened to young  Camp?, at least he sounded like he wanted to come here on a more permanent basis.

Loan signings never develope any affinity for the club or its fans (Hucks excluded!) an in general are only using said club as a way out for brighter things.

They are cash gusslers, squad upsetters and no better than  money grabbers.

Agreed?.

[/quote]

Your post should be why i dont like anything. I doubt you were moaning the season we went up, mainly may i add due to loan players.

Stop your moaning wizz aka victor meldrue

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote user="I OWN THIS CLUB"][quote user="1st Wizard"]

Because they usually work out expensive and the player is never FULLY committed to the club. Take our latest ''con'' signing Marshall:

http://new.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED23%20Jan%202007%2009%3A16%3A42%3A617

Sounds committed to me!.................... not. And while we''re on the goal keeping issue, whats happened to young  Camp?, at least he sounded like he wanted to come here on a more permanent basis.

Loan signings never develope any affinity for the club or its fans (Hucks excluded!) an in general are only using said club as a way out for brighter things.

They are cash gusslers, squad upsetters and no better than  money grabbers.

Agreed?.

[/quote]

Your post should be why i dont like anything. I doubt you were moaning the season we went up, mainly may i add due to loan players.

Stop your moaning wizz aka victor meldrue

[/quote]Erm... Pot? Kettle? Black?

[Buncey 1]

Agree with you Wiz on some points. The loaning in of Marshall is a complete waste of time. Why get a goal keeper in for 3 months who will then leave and never come back again? How will that help us build a new team up, waste of time, would rather Gallagher in goal or Lewis, least we know they will be here next season. We have been, well moderately lucky in our loan signings. Hucks, Crouch, Harper, Bentely (to some extent), Nielsen. But we have had shockers...... *shudders* Lisbie, Rehman, Davenport (nobody can tell me that he''s a quality defender when he let so many goals by not being goal side of the striker (rule no.1 of defending)), JJ (journeyman), cooper (added nothing extra to our team and was a fringe player at wolves who were below the play-offs and we were top :S) and STUART!!!!! the laziest player i''ve ever seen, he was out of breath after running onto the pitch..... sigh....

[Tumbleweed 106]

Good idea- how about a "What I do like "post from 1st Wizard. Perhaps things like:

1. that bit of scruffy grass behind the Lowestoft promenade

2. the architectural merit of the Gateway supermarket

3. the bin end shop in the old Tuttles building

4. the old discounted Paul Haylock christmas cards which are probably still on sale somewhere in the club shop.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Fellas"]Agree with you Wiz on some points. The loaning in of Marshall is a complete waste of time. Why get a goal keeper in for 3 months who will then leave and never come back again? How will that help us build a new team up, waste of time, would rather Gallagher in goal or Lewis, least we know they will be here next season.

We have been, well moderately lucky in our loan signings. Hucks, Crouch, Harper, Bentely (to some extent), Nielsen. But we have had shockers...... *shudders* Lisbie, Rehman, Davenport (nobody can tell me that he''s a quality defender when he let so many goals by not being goal side of the striker (rule no.1 of defending)), JJ (journeyman), cooper (added nothing extra to our team and was a fringe player at wolves who were below the play-offs and we were top :S) and STUART!!!!! the laziest player i''ve ever seen, he was out of breath after running onto the pitch..... sigh....
[/quote]

Why is it a waste of time? We''re 5 points off the relegation zone and it''s become increasingly apparent in recent weeks that Gallagher is not up to it. He''s a decent shot stopper (but most keepers at this level are) but his organisational skills and command of his area are terrible. Marshall by all accounts is a decent keeper and will surely be keen to prove that to Gordon Strachan in his time here. Hopefully he''ll help us stay up and then in the summer we can begin the really tough job of rebuilding the team.

If you honestly think Kevin Cooper added nothing to our team during his time here then I suggest you have a look back through you Championship winning DVD, he was a decent player and we could have done a lot worse than sign him. Davenport has just been sold for about £3million which would suggest he''s not quite as poor as you seem to think. I''ll give you Graham Stuart though, he couldn''t even run!

[Herb 0]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]

Good idea- how about a "What I do like "post from 1st Wizard. Perhaps things like:

1. that bit of scruffy grass behind the Lowestoft promenade

2. the architectural merit of the Gateway supermarket

3. the bin end shop in the old Tuttles building

4. the old discounted Paul Haylock christmas cards which are probably still on sale somewhere in the club shop.

[/quote]5. A nice cup of tea and a sit down6. Tropical fish 7. Suffolk''nuff said [:P]

[ZLF 274]

Its the same as permanent signings - the ones that work well are the ones with a hunger and desire to succeed while playing fo rus;  get that in a player whether permanent or on loan and you have a winner.  Sadly we have missed out on that trait recently

[shyster 0]

"Davenport (nobody can tell me that he''s a quality defender)"

Yeah right, it''s a wonder why Curbishley didn''t offer us 3 million for either Shackell or Doherty, ''cause it''s obvious to anyone with a half decent knowledge of football that those two are much better central defenders than Davenport. [:P]

Honestly, the quality of posts on this message board recently is resembling our performances on the pitch.

Instead of making crass estimations you would be better off asking yourself why Davenport didn''t perform as well as he obviously can while he was with us.

Don''t you think it might''ve be down to poor management around that time? I do.

The same theory can be applied to what is happening at the club now.

[djc 0]

Fellas wrote "The loaning in of Marshall is a complete waste of time. Why get a goal keeper in for 3 months who will then leave and never come back again? "

Perhaps we arent prepared to make this loan deal permanent if at all, due to the real possibility of relegation. After all it wouldn''t be in the interests of either the player or us to do such a financially suicidal transfer at this point. Maybe we have a "gentleman''s agreement" in place for his transfer should we manage to survive the fight against the drop.

 

Perhaps this could sum up why we are all of a sudden being linked with League 1 players (Hayter, Crow) instead of the likes of Riodan mentioned a couple of weeks ago?

 Maybe our club board do actually realise there is a risk of us dropping down a division. That very thought reminds me of when we signed Dean Ashton. Our Club said something at the time about how they were signing a player with a proven reputation from the league we sadly dropped down to. Could history repeat itself??

 

[Buncey 1]

[quote user="Shack Attack"]

[quote user="Fellas"]Agree with you Wiz on some points. The loaning in of Marshall is a complete waste of time. Why get a goal keeper in for 3 months who will then leave and never come back again? How will that help us build a new team up, waste of time, would rather Gallagher in goal or Lewis, least we know they will be here next season. We have been, well moderately lucky in our loan signings. Hucks, Crouch, Harper, Bentely (to some extent), Nielsen. But we have had shockers...... *shudders* Lisbie, Rehman, Davenport (nobody can tell me that he''s a quality defender when he let so many goals by not being goal side of the striker (rule no.1 of defending)), JJ (journeyman), cooper (added nothing extra to our team and was a fringe player at wolves who were below the play-offs and we were top :S) and STUART!!!!! the laziest player i''ve ever seen, he was out of breath after running onto the pitch..... sigh....[/quote]

Why is it a waste of time? We''re 5 points off the relegation zone and it''s become increasingly apparent in recent weeks that Gallagher is not up to it. He''s a decent shot stopper (but most keepers at this level are) but his organisational skills and command of his area are terrible. Marshall by all accounts is a decent keeper and will surely be keen to prove that to Gordon Strachan in his time here. Hopefully he''ll help us stay up and then in the summer we can begin the really tough job of rebuilding the team.

If you honestly think Kevin Cooper added nothing to our team during his time here then I suggest you have a look back through you Championship winning DVD, he was a decent player and we could have done a lot worse than sign him. Davenport has just been sold for about £3million which would suggest he''s not quite as poor as you seem to think. I''ll give you Graham Stuart though, he couldn''t even run!

[/quote]So Marshall will single handedly take climb us all the way up the table into the play-offs will he? Yes some signing''s are useful, such as Chadwick, where the player is gonna stay and actually commit to the club. What if Marshall doesn''t start playing very well and thinks well, stuff this i can''t be bothered im back at Celtic next season and it don''t matter. Really we need players for other positions more urgently to keep us up than a short term solution for in goal.Kevin Cooper, well imo WLY was awesome in our promotion season and cooper didn''t add much onto our team which WLY couldn''t, even though he was a superb set piece taker. However Davenport cost us sooo many points last season due to his poor defending. I couldn''t believe it when we domintated Reading to see Davenport let the player get goalside and them steal a goal, that wasn''t the first time i saw it and he still has not mended his ways, ie chopra and thomson had a field day against him in the cup a few weeks ago. He may have been sold for £2 million, doesn''t mean he''s worth it look at hughes he''s not worth £500,000.

[Rustyboy 2]

Wiz,

 

Do they work out expensive or a cheap short term fix? I''m sure if we signed them the cost of the transfer fee + wages would be more than loaning them but you may know better than the board who would surely go for the cheaper option!

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Fellas"]

So Marshall will single handedly take climb us all the way up the table into the play-offs will he?

[/quote]

No, but then I didn''t say he would did I? Like it or not our biggest concern at the moment is with the other end of the table. IMO a keeper with a decent command of his area will help install confidence in his back four and hopefully begin to improve our results.

Short term loans which will help us stay up are good enough for me at the moment. The hard work of rebuilding the team begins in the summer.