Negative manager, negative formation, leads to negative result

[silver fox 0]

Only listened to the game today, but with the negative formation chosen by Grant it didn''t sound as though we would ever score.  Why on earth he didn''t start with two players up front, and at least put the opposition defence under pressure, only the manager will know. The only time we go on the offensive is when we are behind with hardly any time left. 

Did we have a shot again today?  Did we give any youngsters a chance or did we stick with the tried and tested?  Grant clearly feels confident of making the play offs with a midfield of Etuhu, Hughes, and Robinson; only time will tell if he is right.

Negative manager, negative formation, leads to negative results.

 

[nutty nigel 7,639]

I wanted us to play 442 today because I really don''t like Eanshaw being a lone figure up top. We could have if Doherty had been fit because Dublin could have played up front. We''ve got Thorne but it seems he is never fit enough. I guess Grant played the system that he thought suited the fit players he had available.

It''s dissappointing, even a draw would have kept momentum going.

 

[Time to go Delia 0]

Afraid we are not going to be anywhere near the top 6 whatever some deluded fools may say. The players are just not good enough and the manager must be the most negative ever .

[yoda 0]

grinding out a boring draw and boring the pants off everyone in the bargain isnt going to get us promoted so why the hell dont we just go for the throat ? most teams in this league are no better than us but playing 1 upfront sends out bad signals . with earnie and huckerby in the same side you would have though we could muster up a decent effort in 90 mins . boring boring norwich

[Infamy, Infamy 0]

How can you make a judjment based on Chris Gorehams commentary? Hardly an expert is he? Peter Grant put him in his place in his post match interview "that''s why I''m the manager and your the commentator" blast. I''m liking Grant more and more, give the bloke a chance.[:P]

[Hardhouse44 261]

The stats tell me all I need to know.

Grants an utter prat

[Archie 0]

hardhouse 44 if you base all your judement on statistics then that says a lot about how much you read into things...

[Hardhouse44 261]

[quote user="Archie"]hardhouse 44 if you base all your judement on statistics then that says a lot about how much you read into things...[/quote]

1 shot off target 1 shot on. Sunderland 7 off target 5 on.

6 times as mant chances as us.   

Sunderland 1 Norwich 0

 

Read what you like in to that.

I know what I see.

[Archie 0]

of those six on target one was a good save, one was a gial. the others were soft ones straight at camp, shots that any keeper would save with relative ease

[Hardhouse44 261]

[quote user="Archie"]of those six on target one was a good save, one was a gial. the others were soft ones straight at camp, shots that any keeper would save with relative ease[/quote]

What did we get out of the match.

NOTHING

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

OK GRANT IS A FLIPPING IDIOT....  I SAID IT AND I STAND BY IT

 

ROBERT EARNSHAW IS NO LONE STRIKER.  HOW MANY FLIPPING MATCHES DOES HE HAVE TO PLAY TO PROVE THIS.

 

HE DOESNT HOLD UP THE BALL, HE IS NOT STRONG IN THE AIR HE IS JUST NOT A LONE STRIKER.

 

GRANT MAY JUST BE AN APPALLING MANAGER.

[Jonny Raceway<P><FONT face=Tahoma><EM><STRONG>When playing Target Darts always put your best foot forward!<STRONG><EM><FONT><P> 0]

[quote user="Hardhouse44"]

The stats tell me all I need to know.

Grants an utter prat

[/quote]

 

This is isn''t PG''s team yet so give the man a chance!

[Regime Change 0]

[quote user="ncfc1"]Afraid we are not going to be anywhere near the top 6 whatever some deluded fools may say. The players are just not good enough and the manager must be the most negative ever .[/quote]

I agree the team are nowhere hear negative to be near the top six at the end of the season, but, I think it is unfair to label Grant defensive.

Overwhelmingly, teams now play are more defensive style when they are away from home and nobody critcised Grant for playing 4-5-1 when be beat Birmingham.  Imo 4-5-1 away from home makes sense.  We only have one real striker (Thorne has never been prolific), in the last 18 months we''ve struggled to win games away from home playing 4-4-2, and considering our defensive weaknesses 4-5-1 give the central defenders some more cover.

Ultimately, Grant''[s formation and tactics are being dictated by the weaknesses of the squad.

 

[Canary Jules 0]

I understand that this is not Grant''s team yet but I do agree with Hardhouse. The stats are poor for Norwich and he could have played 442 but his reason for not doing so seemed a strange one.

We played a 4-5-1 formation which is pretty negative. If you read the Canaries website it was a 433??? As a result we had 1 shot on target (according to Sporting Life stats) all game and I''ve just read that PG thought we should have taken all 3 points!! He said we had to play 1 up front as Thorne isn''t fit enough to play two games on the trot and that caused us a problem because we like bodies in the box. So why didn''t he play Jarvis from the off and why are we putting a bloke on the bench who is unfit and who can''t score for toffee? Sometimes, I do believe we have replaced Worthy with his twin brother when I read about negative tactics and see statements that just don''t make sense. We will stay mid table because we haven''t got the bottle to go for it. We play it safe but the problem is, it isn''t safe!!! I''d rather go down fighting than play negative tactics. Yes, it is early days but I do see comparisons with our recently departed manager. I feel sorry for the people that travelled. They are being sold short.

[David4567 0]

[quote user="Jonny Raceway"]

This is isn''t PG''s team yet so give the man a chance!

[/quote]

 

I''m sorry but PG is the manager now so it is his team and he is being paid good money to manage the team, if you want better players then it''s the scouts you need to sack not the manager. Think about it logically how often to you think managers of Championship football clubs get to go look at players, every saturday they are on the sidelines with their own club. He''s a manager and that simply what he''s been brought here to do, so far he has shown he can''t manage. Worthy has gone, it''s time to move on and stop blaming him for anything that goes wrong.

[Cluck 0]

Some realistic points made by realistic fans.........but once again the defenders of demise come out shooting.....

It''s a team of donkeys......led by a monkey of a manager....duly put in place by a Board of clowns. All the ingredients of the circus we call Norwich City Football Club.

Stop defending it guys.....and start facing facts. We''re on the slippery slide to obscurity....and when we finally get to the bottom.... YOU will be to blame for watching it happen and saying nothing.

It seems to me that if Ip****t are below us in the league then all is well in the world with some of you. Why not try looking at the plight of NCFC instead....because THAT is what we should be focusing on. Is it any consolation to see them go down....if we''re dropping down there with them?

[shyster 0]

Thorne doesn''t have to be a prolific goal scorer, his job would be to hold up, head the ball & supply Earnshaw - we''ve witnessed a little of that this season through late substitutions, but not nearly enough - thing is, from the brief spells we have seen Thorne on the pitch with Earnshaw it has been proven to work, so why not stick with it? Many will say it''s because Thorne is crap, not match fit or both, but have we realistically seen enough of him to label him complete crap? And this continuous b _ llocks I''m sick of hearing that he isn''t match fit really gets on my t _ ts -- HOW CAN A PRO FOOTBALLER BEING PAID THOUSANDS NOT BE F _ _ _ ING MATCH FIT !?!?

King''s Lynn''s part-time players who only train twice a week at best and who also work in full-time occupations as well as turning out for a 180 minutes of football every week looked full of running against professional outfit Oldham, so unless a player is carrying an injury, how the f _ _ k can such excuses be made and justified when it comes to Thorne, and earlier in the season, Croft? And if Grant, or any bugger else, insists that Thorne isn''t match fit, then train him harder and keep him in the starting line up.

Grant claims to prefer the 4-4-2, so be consistent, field that formation and surely consistency in performances and results will ensue - it''s the one sure way we''ll see if Thorne or Jarvis are actually good enough to remain at the club. I disagree that the small squad renders us with the dreadful and negative 4-5-1, even when injuries are taken into account - farting about and complicating things with the 4-5-1 by cramming the midfield when attacking flank & forward play HAS been an option is not the way to go with what we''ve got & in this division.

I''ve never witnessed a successful Norwich side that played defensively.

[king of latvia 0]

[quote user="Jonny Raceway"][quote user="Hardhouse44"]

The stats tell me all I need to know.

Grants an utter prat

[/quote]

 

This is isn''t PG''s team yet so give the man a chance!

[/quote]

not his team then whos is it ? peter grant is in charge he picks the team he motivate the team so what the hell are you on about ,its very clear to see the players have no faith in grant with his ranting and raving on the side lines this doesnt help the players one little bit.

[Dame to Blame 96]

[quote user="cluck_the_positive"]

Some realistic points made by realistic fans.........but once again the defenders of demise come out shooting.....

It''s a team of donkeys......led by a monkey of a manager....duly put in place by a Board of clowns. All the ingredients of the circus we call Norwich City Football Club.

Stop defending it guys.....and start facing facts. We''re on the slippery slide to obscurity....and when we finally get to the bottom.... YOU will be to blame for watching it happen and saying nothing.

It seems to me that if Ip****t are below us in the league then all is well in the world with some of you. Why not try looking at the plight of NCFC instead....because THAT is what we should be focusing on. Is it any consolation to see them go down....if we''re dropping down there with them?

[/quote]So Chuck as it could be my fault for the slippery slide to obscurity WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THEN  be like a lot of you anti Grant posters and moan  about Grant moan  about the team moan about the tactics should i shout for Grants head at football matches sit there like a stuffed fart on match days because i don''t like the formation or we go 1-0 down  and then come on this board and spread all this negativity about   come on Chuck what should i do to stop your prediction from happening because your actions ( IE slagging of anything to do with NCFC) sure ain''t going to stop it are they , i bet i can guess what the reply will be it''s so predictable.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="barclayendboy"]
[quote user="cluck_the_positive"]

Some realistic points made by realistic fans.........but once again the defenders of demise come out shooting.....

It''s a team of donkeys......led by a monkey of a manager....duly put in place by a Board of clowns. All the ingredients of the circus we call Norwich City Football Club.

Stop defending it guys.....and start facing facts. We''re on the slippery slide to obscurity....and when we finally get to the bottom.... YOU will be to blame for watching it happen and saying nothing.

It seems to me that if Ip****t are below us in the league then all is well in the world with some of you. Why not try looking at the plight of NCFC instead....because THAT is what we should be focusing on. Is it any consolation to see them go down....if we''re dropping down there with them?

[/quote]

So Chuck as it could be my fault for the slippery slide to obscurity WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THEN  be like a lot of you anti Grant posters and moan  about Grant moan  about the team moan about the tactics should i shout for Grants head at football matches sit there like a stuffed fart on match days because i don''t like the formation or we go 1-0 down  and then come on this board and spread all this negativity about   come on Chuck what should i do to stop your prediction from happening because your actions ( IE slagging of anything to do with NCFC) sure ain''t going to stop it are they , i bet i can guess what the reply will be it''s so predictable.
[/quote]

Fair reply Barclayendboy.......

Initially I would say that much of the damage has been done. NW should have been removed by the Board half way into the Premiership campaign....when many fans were far too busy admiring the opposition and all too happy to be ''little old Norwich'' in the big time. Had there been a more realistic attitude to things then....maybe we would still be there competing with the best. This isn''t hindsight....it''s just a point about how very easily we are satisfied these days....and how ''spin'' from the Board won the day. The fact is that we were not exactly ''new'' to the top flight like Reading....so why the huge elation at being there? Why was it such a massive ocassion for everybody?.....and why the inferiority complex on the part of DS to maintain prudence, in the certainty that we would come straight down....with money in the kitty. Where exactly is that money now?....not on the pitch, that''s for sure. 

Coming up to date.....I would not have appointed Peter Grant.....for whom DS made a personal bee-line. I mean....her choices for manager have not been too clever in the past have they......but this time apparently Dave Stringer would be implicated for ''PR'' reasons. I would have cleaned out the entire coaching staff....to be replaced by young talented coaches on the rise.....and there are plenty of those about. Given the choice, I would have selected Mark Bowen...with a free hand of assistant....but failing that tried to lure Cotterill away from Burnley.....even if it meant upsetting a few people in doing so.

I would have warned the supporters not to expect anything until a re-build was complete....so nipping in the bud the ''promotion'' fantasy still evident now in some quarters. All expectation reduced...I would have dumped the dross left behind by NW and got quality young loans in to assure mid-table security.....not unlike Ip***t and a few other more positive clubs have done.

At the top....I would get DS and her cronies to actively circulate news that NCFC would welcome new investment....in exchange for a major part in club decisions and progress. As things are....DS (who is not popular in business circles) controls everything....and no-one with any sense would come anywhere near CR. Behind the celebrity smile is a ruthless businesswoman with a possessive nature....not a good partner to have in any walk of life. Before I hear ''Russian Mafia'' blurted by the ''true negatives''....this club was a great investment opportunity a year or so back....but now has lost much of it''s gloss and appeal.  The fault of the Board alone.....

WE have sat by and let this shambles happen...directing all of our anger at a hapless NW, allowing the cowardly and inept Board to hide behind a false villain. To criticise Delia Smith our ''saviour'' is still deemed as treason....despite the full facts being detailed nicely on here by Mystic Megson....so what part of the truth don''t some of us here understand?......The unpleasant part needing supporter action maybe? The part where we have to actually do something radical? The part where Delia Smith actually isn''t our ''saviour'' at all?

Ok....so it may not be perfect....but given the real attempt at change rather than the fudged ''carry on as you were'' psyche we have now...perhaps a bit more patience could be demanded by the club....with US knowing that they were trying hard to turn things round. Right now I see a weak Board bullsh*tting it''s way through....and all too forgiving fans still believing in fairies. With 24,000 fans at CR again next time...what sort of message are we sending out? One of belief in mediocrity in my view...and an expectation of nothing.

DS and Co. have us loyal fans by the balls......and they know it.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Im not mr potato head"]How can you make a judjment based on Chris Gorehams commentary? Hardly an expert is he? Peter Grant put him in his place in his post match interview "that''s why I''m the manager and your the commentator" blast. I''m liking Grant more and more, give the bloke a chance.[:P]
[/quote]

hahahahha don''t make me laugh.  He may be the manager but has no record in management, he could be the next Alex Fergusen or the next Brian Hamilton for all we know.  And he got it wrong.

[Dame to Blame 96]

Thanks for the reply Cluck it was nice to get a sensible answer filled with your concerns instead of being slagged off , i can see some of your points are very fair and yes i hated that little old Norwich comment as well and yes  i would have selected Bowen  as well and i am far from a D. Smith fan, but i can''t help but feel sorry for Grant and i for one will be getting behind him even though it could be a hopless case with our board as it stands at the moment.

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="barclayendboy"]Thanks for the reply Cluck it was nice to get a sensible answer filled with your concerns instead of being slagged off , i can see some of your points are very fair and yes i hated that little old Norwich comment as well and yes  i would have selected Bowen  as well and i am far from a D. Smith fan, but i can''t help but feel sorry for Grant and i for one will be getting behind him even though it could be a hopless case with our board as it stands at the moment.[/quote]

Thanks for that barclayendboy....and I think we''re really singing from the same hymn sheet........[Y]

It''s just an attempt to say there was another way....but DS and her Board have totally lost the plot now and it will more than likely end in tears for her. It''s a shame, as I''m certain she meant well initially.....but sometimes it''s kinder to let go of something you love in order to let it flourish. 

I agree with you about Grant...as he is in an awful position. We really don''t know what pressures he has on him from the Boardroom....nor any idea as to why he has kept the tarnished backroom staff in a job. His transfer ''kitty'' seems to be diminishing fast....and if Earnshaw goes in Jan to pay for new players he will get duly hammered......while the Board twiddles it''s fingers in the shadows.

We definately need new blood at the top to enable us to move on.....and that can only happen if we voice our disapproval loud and clear towards DS and Co.....rather than simply throwing stones at the hapless players and a rookie manager finding his way. We are better than this as a club....but we''ve got to start believing in ourselves again and stop being so subservient out of misplaced gratitude for DS and Co.

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

Cluck, sSome of your points on this thread are well made ( and some of them I agree with ), and nice to see the positive interchange with barclayendboy.

I have extracted part of your post however and would appreciate an answer. Referring to Delia, you said, "Behind the celebrity smile is a ruthless businesswoman", followed by your judgement that to continue with the current Board is folly and your comment, , "so what part of the truth don''t some of us here understand?" 

I suppose the point that I have made previously is that Delia has run he life in a way that could be considered as successful compared to the average bear. If this is accepted and, as you say, she is a ruthless businesswoman, then why do you think she is embarked on a mission to run the club into a state of disarray with no plan for the future? Is that the plan of a smart, ruthless businesswoman?

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

Cluck, sSome of your points on this thread are well made ( and some of them I agree with ), and nice to see the positive interchange with barclayendboy.

I have extracted part of your post however and would appreciate an answer. Referring to Delia, you said, "Behind the celebrity smile is a ruthless businesswoman", followed by your judgement that to continue with the current Board is folly and your comment, , "so what part of the truth don''t some of us here understand?" 

I suppose the point that I have made previously is that Delia has run he life in a way that could be considered as successful compared to the average bear. If this is accepted and, as you say, she is a ruthless businesswoman, then why do you think she is embarked on a mission to run the club into a state of disarray with no plan for the future? Is that the plan of a smart, ruthless businesswoman?

[/quote]

Far from claiming to have ''all of the answers'' Yankee...I have just tried to put forward an alternative view.

With regards to DS and her career...it is relatively easy to run an enterprise such as a small company based on a single product...this being DS''s culinary skills. From this base all manner of outlets can be exploited such as television productions...books...videos and the like. There is no-one else to please other than yourself at this level and with a degree of fame and self-promotion....success is generally assured. Basically she knows the catering business inside out...has a great many contacts in this field and the ''whole'' can be run as a ''tight ship''.

By moving into another field altogether....with the game plan of building a catering concern linked to a football club....an entirely different set of rules are involved....with much more reliance on staff and advisors, from kitchen workers right through to the football team manager. It''s a major undertaking....way beyond her business experience....involving juggling many more balls and under public scrutiny...i.e. us.

I think we can all see that the catering element of the business is well run and successful...benefitting from major financial input via the club finances. That said....who was watching the football side in all this?  No-one in that Boardroom has the depth of knowledge needed to ensure the team is up to scratch and successful on the pitch. Much emphasis has been placed on matters away from the pitch....the very thing 24,000 + of us turn up regularly to see.

We can be as ruthless and hard nosed as we like in business...but if we are out of our depth we will struggle. That is what has happened at CR under her stewardship of the club.....Nothing personal....it''s just that we need ''horses for courses''.....and sadly she is not up to the task of taking NCFC any further than she has. We can accept this....or demand real progress. Personally I prefer the latter option and if she genuinely ''loves'' this club as she claims....she should step aside now to allow someone more capable to take up the reins.

No doubt I will be accused of talking out of my backside once again....but at least I''m prepared to get shot down by my critics here rather than just flick peanuts all day long.........

[whoareyou? 0]

Time and again i seem to read the same stuff...blame the board, blame the stand, blame the coaches, blame the manager.....what about the players?? They are the ones being paid a fortune to produce and a very good proportion of them just are not doing it!

[beelsie 0]

Cluck!, your analysis of DS, based on what we as viewers all witness on

screen, and her enterprises in print and the catering at Carrow Road,

seem pretty well thought out to me .  Also I am happy with your

premice  (mine also) that in NCFC boardroom, there are not enough

football orientated people in our board -room.   If there

were would they be prepared to  get in among the so called experts

during our playing, training, and coaching sessions.  IMHO there

is room at board level for more of this type of monitoring  from

prior NCFC successful managers or others who would be prepared to work

on a retainer basis.

[Cluck 0]

 

A valid point whoareyou?......but in Delia speak......if you get a chef in from a transport cafe'', you can''t expect cordon bleu cookery. I''m certain DS knows all there is to know in the world of catering....but selecting a suitable football club manager? Deciding which player is a good buy...with strict financial prudence the primary concern? Selecting backroom staff for the new manager to work with...and deciding who stays over his head? The list is endless. It''s stated that DS does not play a leading role at the club.....well I doubt that somehow.....possessive as she undeniably is. But hypothetically taking that on board.......who else is there with a grain of genuine football knowledge? Munby? Jones? Foulger?.............

The players we have are not very good....and no-one could really do a great deal with them. They may well be skillful deep down....but not getting any effort out of them may well be the very reason they ended up here...at ''bargain'' prices. Bad rejects rather than growing potential. The Board is responsible for this timid approach....and for hiring Worthington (and his predecessors) to carry out their unambitious mission....prudently.

I agree the players are poor and not performing....but can you blame them if they have been given an overpaid cushy lifestyle under DS? Not one of them has any significant allegience to Norwich City.....and they are basically here for the beer. Anyone worth having is off like a shot where he can play in a decent team......and maybe actually win something.....Ashton...Green...and so on.

So it is the fault of the Board...rather than the lazy players they brought in.

 

 

 

[The Judge 0]

You could ask the same question to Duncan Fletcher - England cricket coach for those of you don''t know ......

Inevitably playing negatitively, picking defensively minded players rather than attacking ones (Giles or Monty anyone ?) only leads to one result in the end - defeat.

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

The cricket was a disgrace.  Monty being left out of a side struggling to bowl out the aussies was a joke.  We played attacking cricket in the last ashes series, why have we gone so defensive - and lost in part due to this.