Wagner says " we looked solid and organised.."

[Midlands Yellow 4,013]

17 hours ago, BigManInTheBarclay said:

Clearly he was watching another game....we were shocking other than the goal!

Sainz could have made it 2.0 and then we offered nothing for the remaining hour. To be fair Leicester were very good and could have given us a hammering. 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

All Wagner needed to say was 'I'm sorry, that will never happen again'.    Instead we get that tosh. 

Kenny says we weren't brave and good enough on the ball.    

Well, here is the problem.   

You sit back, position yourselves deep as an entire unit and play out slowly and invite the press..... we allowed Leicester, just like Middlesborough to condense the play and you have 20 players virtually in the our defensive third, certainly in our half.... how are we supposed to play out with no space against a team who wanted to win every ball more that we did.   That's on Wagner yet again.  

Wagner set them up and allowed it to continue despite it being obvious and inevitable what was going to happen.     Any player being asked to play that way, would get demoralised as the game progressed.    

That was an absolute disgrace of a showing and coming off the recent experience of Middlesborough when we did exactly the same thing and suffered the same outcome, its literally unforgivable.      

[ged in the onion bag 856]

45 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Sainz could have made it 2.0 and then we offered nothing for the remaining hour. To be fair Leicester were very good and could have given us a hammering. 

Leicester were only very good for one reason.    Us.   We let them outplay and outclass us, by sitting so deep and narrow.  It was easy for them.       

[chicken 2,638]

1 hour ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Hanley is still here, Dimi is still here. The only one that’s left is Aaron’s 

Hanley hasn't been available for this season really.

We also had Omobamidele. Dimi was only half a season, he came in Jan.

Equally, Krul was first choice in goal and we had Tettey and Skipp in front of them. Yes, not 'the' back four but important parts of the defensive set up of the team. Not to mention, that was 4 seasons ago.

[chicken 2,638]

6 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Leicester were only very good for one reason.    Us.   We let them outplay and outclass us, by sitting so deep and narrow.  It was easy for them.       

More that we were sloppy in possession giving it away before we'd crossed half way.

[chicken 2,638]

1 hour ago, yellowrider120 said:

Then why may I ask did they get relegated last season? Leicester are nowhere near being a 'mid table' PL side. IF they go up and fail to strengthen they will get relegated again PDQ!

So you are arguing the 'midtable' bit of 'lower to midtable'. In the prem, thats 20th to maybe 12th. Key word is 'to'. Do I think they are good enough for 8th? No. Better than Luton, Shef Utd, Burnley, yes. 

[hogesar 9,707]

Purposefully refrained from reading much on here post the game as it's always a little OTT and silly, particular with Wagner in charge, where fans who were wrong about him are twisting as much as possible to ensure they're still right, somehow.

I know Cambridge is a bit of a troll merchant but worth listening to the full Wagner interview. I thought he was pretty fair with the overall view of the game.

Anyway...

I thought Leicester were good. I thought they were in control both before and after our goal. They have quality in pretty much every position.

I don't think we set up "too" negatively. People seem to confuse set-up with outcome. They're different and there's 22 players on the pitch that impact it.

We still tried to have the full-backs high.

We still kept Nunez, Sara, Sainz, Barnes and Sargent in the starting 11.

We still started Sorensen for his ball-playing ability, over Duffy.

The problem was not only are Leicester's wide players some of the best in the league (potentially the best), but their central midfield are excellent too. In reality too good for this level. 

So we had some excellent wingers vs our incredibly high full-backs. Eventually we had to concede that a bit, or it could have become a cricket score. Of course we naturally sat a bit deeper and more compact anyway.

Losing Sorensen to injury wasn't ideal. McCallum vs Gianoullis has been a debate but one thing Gini can do is dribble out of the opponents press - Sam can't. We lost a lot of ability to play through the press with a rusty Duffy. Mclean and Nunez were poor and didn't offer enough rotation to help.

Bad day at the office, but I don't think it was down to a simply "negative" manager - both coach and manager have said the intention was to be on the ball, aggressively, a lot more.

 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

25 minutes ago, chicken said:

More that we were sloppy in possession giving it away before we'd crossed half way.

That’s because we were all too deep denying ourselves room and movement to play out.    Allowing Leicester to apply pressure on and suffocate us.    That was on Wagner who failed to change things even when we were losing.    There are no excuses for that display.    To accept it as a one off after Middlesbrough recently is wrong.    We just handed them the game.

[stratton canary 134]

20 hours ago, Making Plans said:

I would hate to see us when we are not solid and disorganised.

One minute of brilliance and 90+ minutes of being totally outplayed.

 

And no one to bring on to change anything, my only hope for Gibbs is he comes on & scores the winner against the binners.! 

[Nuff Said 5,151]

4 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Hanley is still here, Dimi is still here. The only one that’s left is Aaron’s 

If you measure performance by including injured players who have barely played, I think that tells us all we need to know about your theories.

[KeiranShikari 1,423]

9 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

That sounds good till you see that under Farke a majority of the same back 4 only conceded 36 in the entire season. 

Not sure about that, the players and entire structure of the team have changed significantly. 

Aarons, Skipp, Hanley and Krul were the main defensive players in the Covid season. I'd also suggest that Buendia offered a lot to that team defensively too.

Of the same set of players Hanley has obviously only played 8 games. Giannoulis only played 16 in that season. Gibson has also already played 31 times this season whilst he only played 26 in the previous Farke promotion.

Even if he was only used from the bench we also had Tettey that season, a second defensive minded midfielder whilst this season we have none.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

4 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

If you measure performance by including injured players who have barely played, I think that tells us all we need to know about your theories.

Injuries happen to all squads. Even when some of them have been fit they’ve not played. With the squad we have 6th is realistically the bare minimum we should achieve especially given our wage outlay. Really no need to be a d!ck with the way you reply to people on here. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

3 hours ago, KeiranShikari said:

Not sure about that, the players and entire structure of the team have changed significantly. 

Aarons, Skipp, Hanley and Krul were the main defensive players in the Covid season. I'd also suggest that Buendia offered a lot to that team defensively too.

Of the same set of players Hanley has obviously only played 8 games. Giannoulis only played 16 in that season. Gibson has also already played 31 times this season whilst he only played 26 in the previous Farke promotion.

Even if he was only used from the bench we also had Tettey that season, a second defensive minded midfielder whilst this season we have none.

I agree with your points. I would add though that failure to recruit adequately to replace players lays entirely with the club. A failure to coach/develop an internal player lays with the previous 3 managers. There’s been enough time now that we should have come up with something. There have been periods where none of the previous 3 managers have been able to coach a semi coherent defence for long periods of time though. Not since the Covid season in the Chump have we been rock solid.  
 

Wagner is a conundrum for me. If you take the end of last season and the first half of this he’s very lucky to still have a job. The results we’ve got November onwards have been very good at home, our away form is still relegation level. He’s very likeable seems a really nice guy, I just don’t see a long term future with him in charge and I’m okay with that. Even if by some miracle we got promoted through the play offs i wouldn’t complain if Knapper wanted to go in a different direction next season. Smith and Wagner seem very much like rebound relationships after we broke up with Farke. 

[KeiranShikari 1,423]

31 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I agree with your points. I would add though that failure to recruit adequately to replace players lays entirely with the club. A failure to coach/develop an internal player lays with the previous 3 managers. There’s been enough time now that we should have come up with something. There have been periods where none of the previous 3 managers have been able to coach a semi coherent defence for long periods of time though. Not since the Covid season in the Chump have we been rock solid.  
 

Wagner is a conundrum for me. If you take the end of last season and the first half of this he’s very lucky to still have a job. The results we’ve got November onwards have been very good at home, our away form is still relegation level. He’s very likeable seems a really nice guy, I just don’t see a long term future with him in charge and I’m okay with that. Even if by some miracle we got promoted through the play offs i wouldn’t complain if Knapper wanted to go in a different direction next season. Smith and Wagner seem very much like rebound relationships after we broke up with Farke. 

The defence in the Covid season was great but you have to look at it through the lens that every game was at a neutral stadium. We didn't have to deal with the pressure of fans and opposition players didn't feel as much pressure when they were sitting back trying to stop our attack.  Recruitment in the following season was obviously not fit for purpose, even if a couple have come good since.

I agree with you on Wagner. It really depends on what Knapper wants over the next 3 years. If he sees Wagner's style as compatible with he wants then he'll obviously stay. My gut feeling is that this isn't the case and we will see a change.

Edited April 2 by KeiranShikari

[Google Bot 3,298]

53 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Even if by some miracle we got promoted through the play offs i wouldn’t complain if Knapper wanted to go in a different direction next season.

I've more trust in Wagner than I have Knapper right now, and if he got us up i'd have so much more too - so i'd want Knapper to be very clear in his vision if this were to happen.

[Nuff Said 5,151]

Sorry if you feel I’m being a d1ck ( although my name is Richard, so …) but if you say things like

14 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

under Farke a majority of the same back 4 only conceded 36 in the entire season

Which @KeiranShikari has pointed out is not a realistic comparison, and then:

1 hour ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

If you take the end of last season and the first half of this he’s very lucky to still have a job.

Which is like saying “if you ignore the good things about his time here, it’s all been bad”, people will point the flaws in your reasoning.

Ultimately I actually agree with you though, even if we did get promoted, I wouldn’t be entirely surprised or upset if Wagner was replaced.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

39 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Sorry if you feel I’m being a d1ck ( although my name is Richard, so …) but if you say things like

Which @KeiranShikari has pointed out is not a realistic comparison, and then:

Which is like saying “if you ignore the good things about his time here, it’s all been bad”, people will point the flaws in your reasoning.

Ultimately I actually agree with you though, even if we did get promoted, I wouldn’t be entirely surprised or upset if Wagner was replaced.

Apology accepted. 
 

my point is we have 3 of the same back 4 that played that season under Farke. Agreed we’ve been struggling with injuries but I’d also counter that the back ups we have in our current squad are greater than the ones Farke had. 
 

I am not saying ignore the good. We’ve had great results (mainly at home) since November our home form is automatic points per game. Which is rightly why he’s still in the job. What I am saying he’s fortunate he was allowed to continue with the spell of results he had from feb last season to November this, as at many other clubs he would not of had the luxury. 

[nutty nigel 7,554]

18 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Apology accepted. 
 

my point is we have 3 of the same back 4 that played that season under Farke. Agreed we’ve been struggling with injuries but I’d also counter that the back ups we have in our current squad are greater than the ones Farke had. 
 

I am not saying ignore the good. We’ve had great results (mainly at home) since November our home form is automatic points per game. Which is rightly why he’s still in the job. What I am saying he’s fortunate he was allowed to continue with the spell of results he had from feb last season to November this, as at many other clubs he would not of had the luxury. 

Of course it could turn out that we're the fortunate ones. If a change in November had produced Wagner form it would be heralded as a stroke of genius on here...

[Fen Canary 851]

2 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I agree with your points. I would add though that failure to recruit adequately to replace players lays entirely with the club. A failure to coach/develop an internal player lays with the previous 3 managers. There’s been enough time now that we should have come up with something. There have been periods where none of the previous 3 managers have been able to coach a semi coherent defence for long periods of time though. Not since the Covid season in the Chump have we been rock solid.  
 

Wagner is a conundrum for me. If you take the end of last season and the first half of this he’s very lucky to still have a job. The results we’ve got November onwards have been very good at home, our away form is still relegation level. He’s very likeable seems a really nice guy, I just don’t see a long term future with him in charge and I’m okay with that. Even if by some miracle we got promoted through the play offs i wouldn’t complain if Knapper wanted to go in a different direction next season. Smith and Wagner seem very much like rebound relationships after we broke up with Farke. 

As I’ve said previously though, I don’t think our actual defending under Farke was anything special, even though we didn’t concede many. The main reason (in my opinion) that we didn’t concede that many is that we dominated possession most games and thus the opposition didn’t actually spend that long attacking. Whenever they did get the ball however I was terrified as they tended to waltz right up to the 18 yard box with barely a tackle going in. Krul had one of the best seasons I remember from a keeper as well in my opinion, he pulled off dozens of saves that really he had no right to.

Now obviously these tactics were successful from a team point of view, but the actual defending when it was required was a long way behind that of a Fleming/Malky mould who were much better at marshalling the back 4 and actually winning the ball back 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

50 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Of course it could turn out that we're the fortunate ones. If a change in November had produced Wagner form it would be heralded as a stroke of genius on here...

Yeah I can’t argue against that. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

27 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

As I’ve said previously though, I don’t think our actual defending under Farke was anything special, even though we didn’t concede many. The main reason (in my opinion) that we didn’t concede that many is that we dominated possession most games and thus the opposition didn’t actually spend that long attacking. Whenever they did get the ball however I was terrified as they tended to waltz right up to the 18 yard box with barely a tackle going in. Krul had one of the best seasons I remember from a keeper as well in my opinion, he pulled off dozens of saves that really he had no right to.

Now obviously these tactics were successful from a team point of view, but the actual defending when it was required was a long way behind that of a Fleming/Malky mould who were much better at marshalling the back 4 and actually winning the ball back 

Spot on with that assessment. 
 

I was always in the attack is the best form of defence mindset. I do wish we controlled games a lot more than we do. Especially given I think we are more than capable of it with the squad we have. 

[chicken 2,638]

10 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

That’s because we were all too deep denying ourselves room and movement to play out.    Allowing Leicester to apply pressure on and suffocate us.    That was on Wagner who failed to change things even when we were losing.    There are no excuses for that display.    To accept it as a one off after Middlesbrough recently is wrong.    We just handed them the game.

He did change things, Baldy said the subs were wrong.

Equally, if you set a team up to play on the break then pass it into their players in our own half... you can't get out of your own half without the ball. You can't surrender space in the hope that the ball will find you.

Without the ball, when the opponent is in your half you have to push them back, if you can't, you can't advance.